New Cellular Animation: Journey Inside the Cell

In further reflection to post 69: I find it extremely interesting that quantum mechanics tells us that a wave collapse to a quasi 3-D particle is “centered” on each individual conscious observer, whereas 4-D space-time cosmology tells us the 3-D universe is “centered” on each individual conscious observer. Why should the universe, or the sub-atomic world, even care that I exist? This is obviously a very interesting congruence in science between the very large and the very small. A congruence they seem to be having a extremely difficult time making a connection with mathematically (Penrose, Einstein). Yet, a connection which Jesus apparently seems to have joined together with His resurrection: A Particle Physicist Looks At The Turin Shroud Image - 4:25 minute mark of video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgvEDfkuhGg "Miracles do not happen in contradiction to nature, but only in contradiction to that which is known to us of nature." St. Augustine The wonder of it all is truly amazing. bornagain77

Re: Change of subject I wasn't actually complaining about the thread going off-topic - it seems that they all do, and it leads somewhere interesting. I was just pointing out (39) that the way the subject changed appeared to relate two unrelated subjects. ScottAndrews

Lenoxus asks, Are there any reported cases of someone returning from brain death? Yes, this following NDE pretty much rocked the NDE world, The Day I Died – Part 4 of 6 – The NDE of Pam Reynolds – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA37uNa3VGU This one the man was confirmed dead in a car wreck: Don Piper - 90 Minutes in Heaven - A Trip To Heaven and Back! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O0KCfLqMZo this following NDE was of a man who was in a brain dead coma for 27 days: Near Death Experience - Raised From Brain Death By Jesus - Miracle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA-P4c36E2A This following NDE personally rocked my world: Blind Woman Can See During Near Death Experience – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0lNh7NVb0 Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper (1997) conducted a study of 31 blind people, many of who reported being able to see during their NDEs. 21 of these people had had an NDE while the remaining 10 had had an out-of-body experience (OBE), but no NDE. It was found that in the NDE sample, about half had been blind from birth. In all, 15 of the 21 NDEers and 9 of the 10 OBEers could see during their experience while the remaining participants either claimed that they did not see or were not sure whether or not they had seen. This following NDE should give severe pause to anybody who rails against God: Former Atheist Howard Storm's Hellish NDE - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF7AzxplsME bornagain77

This song came on the radio right after I wrote this, and seems "strangely" appropriate: Earth, Wind & Fire Shining Star LIVE Midnight Special http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmEwTrpZs0I Coincidence?,,, Well,,, I have my doubts,,, LOL,,, It has been told to me there are no coincidences in God's world,,,, bornagain77

Skew Jones objects: " there’s a large difference between “all possible locations” and “any possible location”. You’re conflating the two in your definition of QM." Well Skew,,, Let's see what we can gather from what we have so far,,, we know from 4-D space-time cosmology that "any" possible 3-D location is just as "center of the universe" as "all" other 3-D locations of the universe are center,,,thus any and all 3-D locations are equivalent in 4-D space-time cosmology. Whereas in quantum mechanics, especially with the falsification of hidden variables mentioned earlier, we have uncontested wave collapse to a quasi- 3-D particle centered on each and every observer in the universe, Thus since each and every observer is responsible for collapsing wave functions to their particular 3-D point of view within 4-D space-time cosmology, it naturally follows in Quantum Mechanics that "any possible location" is equivalent to "all possible locations" as far as the 3-D perspective of each individual observer is concerned in Quantum Mechanics. i.e. an observer on the other side of the universe would have all wave collapse in the universe to his particular point of view,,, For you to prove that this is not so you would have to prove that that each individual observer is not integral and unique to wave collapse in quantum mechanics,,, But as with all other things in quantum mechanics that have been challenged by the materialistic philosophy, I have great confidence you will never save your "hunch" for a separate material reality "out there somewhere" from the spooky and strange reality revealed to us by Quantum Mechanics. bornagain77

Regarding the whole NDE thing (now used to abbreviate near-death experience and not neo-Darwinian evolution — huh, not a very efficient abbreviation now that I had to explain it): Are there any reported cases of someone returning from brain death? Because, regardless of the consequences for our various and sundry theories, that would be pretty awesome. I must admit, the NDE phenomenon is strange enough for me to ponder my lack of afterlife belief. Still, I think the idea that it's a "side effect" of unknown neural phenomena makes just as much sense as saying that it's the literal experience of a soul which is never otherwise (in our life experience) disembodied. Lenoxus

77 You are spooky, that you are. Overburden

Overburden you ask: "How can you argue design when the atomic base for all existence is collapsible." Collapsible by what and only what Overburden? A conscious observer!!!! downright spooky huh overburden? bornagain77

Paul T, thanks but no thanks, I had quite enough abuse last night from the "unmentionable" blog to last me awhile,,,I really feel sorry for Dr. Dembski's students,,,, he should really give them more points on the grade for having to put up with that kind of treatment... bornagain77

bornagain77 I don't see your point. What is your argument? 'thereby excluding randomness, which is omnipresent in quantum theory.' Do you understand this? How does it fit into your argument? How can you argue design when the atomic base for all existence is collapsible. You are reading something into quantum discovery, something you believe supports your personal interpretation of what 'nature' is for you - designed by your personal god. That doesn't change physics, and it won't change my understanding, or that of others relying on a stricter interpretation of how matter is assembled at the sub atomic level. Overburden

further reference: Explaining Information Transfer in Quantum Teleportation: Armond Duwell †‡ University of Pittsburgh Excerpt: In contrast to a classical bit, the description of a qubit requires an infinite amount of information. The amount of information is infinite because two real numbers are required in the expansion of the state vector of a two state quantum system (Jozsa 1997, 1) --- Concept 2. is used by Bennett, et al. Recall that they infer that since an infinite amount of information is required to specify a qubit, an infinite amount of information must be transferred to teleport. http://www.cas.umt.edu/phil/faculty/duwell/DuwellPSA2K.pdf It is also interesting to note that we can only “destroy” a photon in these quantum teleportation experiments. No one has “created” a photon as of yet. I firmly believe man shall never do as such, since I hold only God is infinite, and perfect, in information/knowledge. More supporting evidence for the transcendent nature of infinite information is found in these following studies: Single photons to soak up data: Excerpt: the orbital angular momentum of a photon can take on an infinite number of values. Since a photon can also exist in a superposition of these states, it could – in principle – be encoded with an infinite amount of information. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/7201 Ultra-Dense Optical Storage -- on One Photon Excerpt: Researchers at the University of Rochester have made an optics breakthrough that allows them to encode an entire image's worth of data into a photon, slow the image down for storage, and then retrieve the image intact. http://www.physorg.com/news88439430.html This following experiment clearly shows information is not a "emergent property" of any solid material basis as is dogmatically asserted by some materialists: Converting Quantum Bits: Physicists Transfer Information Between Matter and Light Excerpt: A team of physicists at the Georgia Institute of Technology has taken a significant step toward the development of quantum communications systems by successfully transferring quantum information from two different groups of atoms onto a single photon. http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/quantumtrans.htm Reflection on the quantum teleportation experiment: That a photon would actually be destroyed upon the teleportation of its "infinite" information to another photon is a direct controlled violation of the first law of thermodynamics. Thus, this is a direct empirical validation for the primary tenet of the Law of Conservation of Information (i.e. information cannot be created or destroyed). This conclusion is warranted because information exercises direct dominion of energy, which cannot be created or destroyed by any known material means, yet a photon of energy is destroyed by this transcendent means. Thus, this experiment provides a direct line of logic that transcendent information cannot be created or destroyed. Clearly anything that exercises dominion of the fundamental entity of this physical universe, energy, must of necessity possess the same, as well as greater, qualities. i.e. All information that can exist, for all past, present and future events of energy, already must exist. Another line of evidence, corroborating the primary tenet of the Law of Conservation of Information, is the required mathematical definition for infinite information needed to correctly specify the reality of a photon qubit (Armond Duwell). The fact that quantum teleportation shows an exact "location dominion", of a photon of energy by "a specified truth of infinite information", satisfies a major requirement for the entity needed to explain the missing Dark Matter. The needed transcendent explanation would have to dominate energy in a very similar "specified location" fashion, as is demonstrated by the infinite information of quantum teleportation, to satisfy what is needed to explain the missing dark matter. Moreover, the fact that simple quantum entanglement shows "coordinated universal control" of a entangled photon of energy, by transcendent information, satisfies a major requirement for the entity which must explain the missing Dark Energy. i.e. The transcendent entity, needed to explain Dark Energy, must explain why the entire space of the universe is expanding in such a finely-tuned, coordinated, degree, and would have to employ a mechanism of control very similar to what we witness in the quantum entanglement experiment. Thus "infinite transcendent information" provides a coherent picture of universal control, and specificity, that could possibly unify all of physics upon further elucidation. It very well may be possible to elucidate, mathematically, the overall pattern God has chosen to implement infinite information in this universe. "I discovered that nature was constructed in a wonderful way, and our task is to find out its mathematical structure" Albert Einstein Further reflections on the "infinite transcendent information" framework: Mass becomes infinite at the speed of light, thus mass will never go the speed of light. As well, distance in direction of travel will shrink to zero for mass at the speed of light (i.e. the mass would disappear from our sight if it could go the speed of light.). For us to hypothetically travel at the speed of light, in this universe, only gets us to first base as far as quantum teleportation is concerned. That is to say, traveling at the speed of light only gets us to the place where time, as we understand it, comes to complete stop for light, i.e. gets us to the eternal, "past and future folding into now", framework/dimension of time. This "eternal" inference for light is warranted because light is not "frozen within time" yet it is shown that time does not pass for light. "I've just developed a new theory of eternity." Albert Einstein Also, hypothetically traveling at the speed of light in this universe would be instantaneous travel for the person going at the speed of light. This is because time does not pass for them, but, and this is a big but; this "timeless" travel is still not instantaneous and transcendent to our temporal framework/dimension of time, i.e. Speed of light travel, to our temporal frame of reference, is still not completely transcendent of our framework since light appears to take time to travel from our perspective. In information teleportation the "time not passing", eternal, framework is not only achieved in the speed of light framework/dimension, but also in our temporal framework/dimension. That is to say, the instantaneous teleportation/travel of information is instantaneous to both the temporal and speed of light frameworks/dimensions, not just the speed of light framework. Information teleportation/travel is not limited by time, nor space, in any way, shape or form, in any frame of reference, as light is seemingly limited to us. Thus "pure information" is shown to be timeless (eternal) and completely transcendent of all material frameworks/dimensions. Moreover, concluding from all lines of evidence we have now examined; transcendent, eternal, infinite information is indeed real and the framework in which it inhabits is the primary reality (highest dimension) that can exist, (in so far as our limited perception of a primary reality, highest dimension, can be discerned). Logic also dictates "a decision" must have been made, by the "transcendent, eternal, infinite information" from the primary timeless reality it inhabits, in order to purposely create a temporal reality with highly specified, irreducible complex, parameters from infinite possibilities in the proper sequential order. Thus this infinite transcendent information, which is the primary reality of our reality, is shown to be alive. The restriction imposed by our physical limitations of us ever accessing complete infinite information to our temporal physical framework/dimension does not detract, in any way, from the primacy and dominion of the infinite, eternal, transcendent, information framework/dimension that is now established by the quantum teleportation experiment as the primary reality of our reality. Of note: All of this evidence meshes extremely well with the theistic postulation of God being infinite and perfect in knowledge. "An illusion can never go faster than the speed limit of reality" Akiane - Child Prodigy - Artwork homepage - music video As a side light to this, leading quantum physicist Anton Zeilinger has followed in John Archibald Wheeler's footsteps (1911-2008) by insisting reality, at its most foundational level, is "information". Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe? Excerpt: In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: "In the beginning was the Word." Anton Zeilinger - a leading expert in quantum teleportation: bornagain77

Skew Jones states: "I have no idea how you stretched that Science Daily article to somehow “slam” materialism." The hidden variables conjecture is overthrown in the paper,,,i.e. materialism body slammed. Quantum mechanics allows one to calculate the probabilities of each viable location of the electron as a wave function. However, the theory goes further, saying that until the electron is observed, it is in all possible positions, until the wave function that describes it is collapsed to a specific location by an observation. This creates some interesting philosophical problems and has been seen by some as implying that human beings create reality. Hidden variables, the EPR papers argue, would overcome these problems and allow for reality to be described with the same certainty that applies in Newtonian physics. Hidden variables would also remove the need for "spooky" forces, as Einstein termed them—forces that act instantaneously at great distances, thereby breaking the most cherished rule of relativity theory, that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. For example, quantum theory implies that measurement of one particle can instantaneously change another particle that may be light years away, if the particles are an entangled pair. Entangled particles are identical entities that share a common origin and have the same properties. Somehow, according to quantum theory, these particles remain in instantaneous contact with each other, no matter how far apart they separate. Hidden variables would allow two entangled particles to have specific values upon creation, thereby doing away with the need for them to be in communication with each other in some mysterious way. http://www.scienceclarified.com/dispute/Vol-2/Do-hidden-variables-exist-for-quantum-systems.html i.e. the instantaneous nature of the communication is indeed real,,, not only is the communication of information real, the transcendent information exercises dominion of energy-matter and thereby establishes itself as the primary and dominate component of reality,,,i.e. John 1:1 is verified: further reference: How Teleportation Will Work - Excerpt: In 1993, the idea of teleportation moved out of the realm of science fiction and into the world of theoretical possibility. It was then that physicist Charles Bennett and a team of researchers at IBM confirmed that quantum teleportation was possible, but only if the original object being teleported was destroyed. --- As predicted, the original photon no longer existed once the replica was made. http://in.geocities.com/info_aruni/tele.htm As well, the following video shows quantum teleportation breakthroughs have shed even more light on exactly what, or more precisely on exactly Whom, has created this universe: Scientific Evidence For God Creating The Universe - 2008 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQhO906v0VM bornagain77

Excuse me, I have a short off topic message for bornagain77. They have created a thread for you over at the sight that shouldn't be named. They say you are welcome to comment there. PaulT

Here is another recent study that basically body slammed materialism: Refutation of the "hidden variables" argument that is used by materialists in trying to explain quantum phenomena,,, Quantum Measurements: Common Sense Is Not Enough, Physicists Show: In comparison to classical physics, quantum physics predicts that the properties of a quantum mechanical system depend on the measurement context, i.e. whether or not other system measurements are carried out. A team of physicists from Innsbruck, Austria, led by Christian Roos and Rainer Blatt, have for the first time proven in a comprehensive experiment that it is not possible to explain quantum phenomena in non-contextual terms.....Quantum mechanics describes the physical state of light and matter and formulates concepts that totally contradict the classical conception we have of nature. Thus, physicists have tried to explain non-causal phenomena in quantum mechanics by classical models of hidden variables, thereby excluding randomness, which is omnipresent in quantum theory. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722142824.htm bornagain77

Overburden states in response to my assertion that the observer is integral to quantum mechanics: Quantum mechanics tells us nothing of the sort. The ‘observables’ are merely the measurable properties, energy, momentum, so on, and the principle theory centers on matter and its various states of instability. Oh Overburden, but if only reality could be separated from the observer as you need to maintain your materialistic basis,,,but I and a few thousand scientists disagree with you: Dr. Quantum - Double Slit & Entanglement - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQuU6FpYAk In fact, the actions observed in the double slit experiment are only possible if our reality has its actual basis in a "higher dimension". Here are some more videos revealing this "supernatural Quantum world" which is the basis of our reality: Explaining The Unseen Spiritual Realm - Dr. Quantum - Flatland - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjNlp5RIZs The Electron - The Supernatural Basis of Reality - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_YQl6XSMM bornagain77

I must apologize for the off topic submissions - done. Overburden

bornagain #48 Quantum mechanics tells us nothing of the sort. The 'observables' are merely the measurable properties, energy, momentum, so on, and the principle theory centers on matter and its various states of instability. But if you need to believe that to bolster you faith, I commend you. Overburden

Scott, Yep, topic back on Signature in the Cell. Anyone read it yet? I've got a request in, waiting on library to stock it. DATCG

#47 Exactly! Would be nice to know, but how? The research into the paranormal doesn't convince me, nor does it impress the greater science community, because there is no way to test any hypothesis. Your either dead or alive, and if your body is dead and your consciousness is suspended, there is no way by which to 'collect' evidence of the individual. To base a belief that such an event does occur requires either religious faith or the reliance on very speculative, subjective reports from a questionable population. Having faith doesn't answer questions scientifically, but neither does the baloney being passed off as supernatural investigation. I do believe the answer is far more simple than we suspect, but impossible to accept. Overburden

ShawnBoy, The Dark Ages quip mightn't be too far from the mark ... although it is recognised that the Renaissance is where 'science' came alive, it was in the the unfortunately-named Dark Ages that the foundations were laid for that later science to blossom. the scientific method originated here as distinct from the philosophy. Maths, algebra, calculus and trigonometry were all advanced. Chemistry and surgery were also given sure platforms. Navigation and mechanics were also advanced markedly. There was a slow but sure revolution, building on the knowledge of the past. The 'Dark' aspect was the lack of recording for posterity. They didn't stop, as such ... So, Meyer, etal may be the vanguards of a new Renaissance, and that would be a good thing! Also, to the point made in the first posts, I agree that showing the speed at which these sequencing patterns occur would also highlight the marvel that this process is. I would also like to have shown in such animations how slightly different processes achieve different outcomes, all from within the confines of a cell. It's amazing stuff, all this 'totally unplanned, uncontrolled' chemical reactions ... AussieID

#47: No, I mean, why can't it be scientifically verified (at some point) that minds exist independent of physical bodies? William J. Murray

There goes that Stephen Meyer trying to take science back to the dark ages again. ShawnBoy

Overburden: But why should you presuppose "material" to be rational, when quantum mechanics basically slam dunks every materialistic postulation put forth? As well don't you find it a bit queer, from what we know to be true with 4-D space time cosmology, that the universe would found to be "centered" on each observer no matter where they are in the universe? ---- In what I consider an absolutely fascinating discovery; Space itself was created in the Big Bang and continues to "expand equally in all places" i.e. The universe is not expanding "into" anything outside of itself. Thus from a 3-dimensional perspective, any particular "material" spot in the universe is to be considered just as "center of the universe" as any other particular spot in the universe is to be considered "center of the universe". There Is No Three-Dimensional Center To This Universe - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_7Ta5igSEc Where is the centre of the universe?: Excerpt: There is no centre of the universe! According to the standard theories of cosmology, the universe started with a "Big Bang" about 14 thousand million years ago and has been expanding ever since. Yet there is no centre to the expansion; it is the same everywhere. The Big Bang should not be visualized as an ordinary explosion. The universe is not expanding out from a centre into space; rather, the whole universe is expanding and it is doing so equally at all places, as far as we can tell. http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/centre.html COBE - WMAP Satellites - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huaS_iSITQs Earth As The Center Of The Universe - image http://universe-review.ca/R02-16-universe.htm And Overburden to top all that off, don't you find it even weirder that quantum mechanics tells us that all quantum events are integral, and even "centered", on a observer? Why should the sub-atomic world of quantum mechanics center on each "individual observer?,,,Why should the universe center on each individual observer?,,,No Overburden you may pretend that materialism is true and deny any rational basis for consciousness from such presupposition, but as for myself I will follow what the evidence is screaming at me and believe that my consciousness does indeed have a very unique quality to it as has been endowed by my Creator and savior Jesus Christ. bornagain77

In response to #46 Of course the 'phenomena' is real, experientially, for each and every participant. It's as real as this exchange is for you and me, but that doesn't make any of it relative to the study of the material mind. Is it rational? Is it reasonable? To accept paranormal explanations is to 'presuppose' they are somehow conclusive, reliable and testable. Overburden

Overburden says in #40: "You can collect or concoct such experiences forever and there will never be an adequate amount of conclusive evidence to support a theory." Why is that? Aren't you presupposing that the phenomena isn't real? William J. Murray

Michael #36 What do you believe determines survival? What physical attributes do you believe support such a transcendence? Overburden

There is nothing about ID that requires an immaterial mind. With that said, why is it so difficult to navigate away from the near death conundrum. It's irrelevant. You can collect or concoct such experiences forever and there will never be an adequate amount of conclusive evidence to support a theory - back to biology. Overburden

The videos for Pam Reynold's NDE can be found here: Part 1 Part 2 The focus on her NDE cuts into the middle of the documentary as a whole, so you'll have to excuse the small segment in part 1 before they actually start covering it. Her case is probably the most highly monitored case to date, as the monitoring happened while the actual NDE occured. Some key points to note are that she was completely dead- as in no heart function or brain function whatsoever, and during this period of time she was still able to observe in 3rd person the surgery being conducted on her own body as well as being able to quote some of the conversations going on between the surgeons. PaulN

Overburden asks in #36: "Why ’some’?" I think claiming that everyone's consciousness survives death would be a case of overreaching. The evidence indicates that some people's consciousness might survive death; it certainly doesn't indicate that everyone's does. Why should everyone's consciousness survive death? Heck, it would be a stretch, IMO, to call most people who are living "conscious". William J. Murray

How about the NDE of Pamela Reynolds? PaulN