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Intelligent Design & the Design Question

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I don’t have much of a lead-in for this post, so I’ll get right to the point: I think it’s important to draw a distinction between two concepts when it comes to ID. Namely, the distinction between the Design Question, and Intelligent Design itself.

When I say ‘the Design Question’, I mean more or less this: The question of whether X is designed, where X is some particular artifact, some particular part of nature, or nature as a whole.

And by Intelligent Design, I think a good, concise view was given here by Jonathan Wells: Intelligent design maintains that it is possible to infer from empirical evidence that some features of the natural world are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than unguided natural processes.

The purpose of this post is to point out that while ID and the Design Question are related (not to mention very important) they are nevertheless distinct: It’s possible to answer “yes” to the Design Question, and still reject ID as stated. Likewise, it’s possible to affirm an ID inference in many cases, yet still answer in the negative on the Design Question (say, affirming that organism X was designed, while still believing that nature as a whole was not designed.)

More below.

First, Wells’ statement has to be augmented: The mere reference to some empirical observation in coming to a conclusion is not sufficient to define ID. It’s the claim that intelligent design and ID inferences themselves qualifies as science. I consider this identification of ID with science as, in the eyes of its most prominent proponents, non-negotiable. As with everything, maybe ID will change someday, or maybe not – ideas can be fluid – but for now, you can’t really be an ID advocate while at the same time denying that ID is science.

So what does this mean? It means that you can accept that the bacterial flagellum (for example) is designed, you can accept empirical evidence in nature points to design, you can affirm that the entire universe is the product of design – but if you don’t consider your views or your inferences to be strictly scientific, you’re not an ID proponent. You may have a lot in common with some ID proponents, but in the end you have to stand outside of the big tent.

And I consider this important to highlight, because it illustrates this much: A person who rejects ID (and remember, simply thinking ID is not science is sufficient for rejecting it) may still come to a positive design conclusion about nature or natural things. Really, they may come to a conclusion more strong than ID itself can provide, and with powerful arguments of their own.

This is probably nothing new to most of the regulars here, but I bring it up because I think it’s a point that’s easily obscured when the subject of “Christian Darwinists” comes up. I could go on about this (and someday soon I probably will), but the problem is that you have “Christian Darwinists” who decry ID, and who seem downright reluctant to affirm design even outside the context of ID – or who affirm it in dodgy, non-committal terms. (Let’s not beat around the bush: I’m talking about Biologos here, or at least a number of their contributors.) When that’s the most common face of theistic ID-critics you come across, it’s easy to start assuming that if someone is not on board with ID, then they can’t possibly believe in design at all (at least, not in the relevant sense.)

Likewise, I think many ID critics come to the conclusion that ID proponents pin all of their views on design on ID itself, such that if ID doesn’t turn up a design inference, then they don’t believe in design or don’t believe it’s rational to believe in design. Not only do I think this is obviously false (though a complicated subject) in the cases of most prominent ID proponents, I think ID critics routinely underestimate the intellectual value ID provides regardless of whether or not they believe ID is science. To put it another way: ID encourages an interest in science, and an interest in asking important questions (like how it’s possible to determine this or that is designed, what factors into such an inference, etc.) Whether or not one believes it’s a scientific question, I’d think any theist would agree “Is this or that natural thing designed?” is a *good* question, an important question. And like it or not, ID encourages people to ask questions about the design question and to investigate the subject, rather than just accept what they’re told.

Anyway, hopefully this post will serve as a reminder about the core commitments of ID, how ID differs from the Design Question itself, and that it’s possible to still strongly affirm design even while disagreeing with ID. (I think one response to this may be that whether or not ID is science may not of the utmost importance, as opposed to agreeing that design inferences themselves are well-supported and rational. I could see that, but I’d also note that highlights the importance of understanding the distinction between ID and the Design Question once again.)

Comments
NR: The act of attempting a definition of science is not an action within science bu in teh meta discipline thsat warrantes science, i.e. philosphy. That holds whether it is a scientist, or an educator or an ordinary person doing it. Phil cannot be escaped, it can only be done knowingly or in ignorance of the context and issues, which will usually hamper the quality of work. And, in that specifically philosophical context, the term pragmatism is far too loaded, which is why I flagged it in the first place. Far better to explicitly say what you mean than to use a term so likely to be misread. Anyway, it is time to get back on topic for the thread. Once science is seen in the historically and philosophically warranted context of "a method of inquiry which typically relies on repeatable experimentation and observation to make [inferences to best current explanation through models, laws and theories etc that help us describe, explain, predict and influence the world]" we can see that the design inference on identified and tested empirical signs of intelligent cause -- note, this specifically is not "supernatural" cause -- is a scientific exercise. One may differ with the result, and may offer an alternative, but it is scientific within a reasonable sense of that term. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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Perhaps the best reason to believe in design: It's there, every day, staring us in the face, crying out for an explanation.Mung
June 19, 2011
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kairosfocus (#19)
Pragmatic carries a closely relevant meaning or interpretation, of or relating to pragmatism.
Well, sure. But the words "pragmatic" and "pragmatism" are in wide use outside of philosophy, and we should not assume that common usage is tied to philosophical accounts. There are many people who consider themselves pragmatic, but who would strongly disagree with Richard Rorty's kind of pragmatism.
And, definition of science is not an exercise within science but instead one in philosophy.
No, sorry, but philosophy does not own that term. Science is probably not fully definable, as was already pointed out by nullasalus (#5). Philosophers attempt to give an account of what science is, but scientists are not bound by how philosophers describe their activity.Neil Rickert
June 19, 2011
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NR: Pragmatic carries a closely relevant meaning or interpretation, of or relating to pragmatism. And, definition of science is not an exercise within science but instead one in philosophy. So the context is inescapably philosophical. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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Null: We are largely agreed, I think. I am just very cautious about the use of a term that is so potentially loaded. Gkairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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Good OP :) Yes, indeed.Elizabeth Liddle
June 19, 2011
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kairosfocus, Here's something I'd offer up. I'm very tempted to treat science and positions on philosophy of science as distinct. Meaning, the question of whether to be an instrumentalist or a realist is not itself a scientific question - philosophy and metaphysics comes into play. I think one of the biggest problems in this debate isn't just defining science, but sorting the science from the philosophy. It's when someone takes a position which is a hybrid of philosophy/metaphysics and science and tries to pass it off as nothing but science that things really get troublesome. I think you yourself recognize that when you talk about agendas in science, so I think we're largely on the same page here. (Not entirely, I'm sure we have some deeper disagreements, but still.)nullasalus
June 19, 2011
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kairosfocus (#13):
Pragmatism is often called the classic American philosophy, and so it can often be more popular than its underlying problems warrant.
I'm not seeing the relevance. One can recognize that science is pragmatic, without committing oneself to the philosophy of pragmatism and without accepting the conception of truth assumed by pragmatism. We perhaps have a disagreement over the nature of a scientific theory. Many people seem to think that a theory is a description of reality derived inductively. I can find no basis for that in the practice of science. I take a scientific theory to be methodological, rather than descriptive. Treated as a description of reality, a theory is neither true nor false. Treated as a description of methodological practice, a theory is true just as long as the practices expressed by that theory are still in use. We make observations under a theory, and those observations can be judged true or false. However, the pragmatic basis for theory selection does not imply that a pragmatic conception of truth is required for such observations.Neil Rickert
June 19, 2011
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Is this, then, a question of intelligent design, ie micro-id, vs Intelligent Design, ie MACRO-ID? If it is what stops micro-id from being MACRO-ID? Isn't MACRO-ID just accumulated micro-ids? :cool: :razz:Joseph
June 19, 2011
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NR: Pragmatism is often called the classic American philosophy, and so it can often be more popular than its underlying problems warrant. I would be very wary of using the term. It is wiser to acknowledge the limitations and provisionality of scientific (and other empirical forms of . . . ) warrant, than to embroil the concept of that which accurately describes reality with the test "it works" as the effective criterion of truth. On the latter approach truth in the end evaporates into a radical relativism. Which is of course quite amenable to the mindset of evolutionary materialism; but that simply reflects the patterns of self referential incoherence in that view, problems that in one form or antoher have been highlighted since Plato in the Laws Bk X. Well tested scientific claims are empirically tested and reliable "so far," MAY well be true, often are our best stab at the credible truth, but the degree of warrant possible on such methods is known to be well short of absolute certainty. My own discipline's two major revolutions in 250 years -- and of course there are always those calling for a new revo -- are enough warning for all to see. But, if we abandon the criterion that scientific truth claims should seek to be an accurate description of reality and should be accountable to the possibilities for that reality, that opens the flood gates further -- this is already happening -- to radical manipulative ideologisation of science, the breakdown of its integrity, and in the end its utter loss of credibility. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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allanius, What subtle point, exactly, is being made here, and why? In plain English? Well, I've tried to do that: A person can reject ID (since all it takes to reject ID is to think ID is not science) and still accept that there is design. Likewise, a person can accept ID and still accept other arguments for design that are not ID arguments. Pretty tame stuff, really. Nothing terribly groundbreaking here. Mung, In my experience, when someone rejects ID as “not science” it is based upon some straw-man caricature of ID. They have no rational reason for doing so. My own experience is that ID is subject to constant "straw-man caricatures", yes. Plenty of people also have double standards about ID. That much I'm not going to deny - I've seen it too much, and it's too prominent. ScottAndrews, As I’m hearing it, I can say, “Look at that – it’s so complicated it must have been designed,” or “All these wonderful emotions, sights, sounds, smells, and tastes were obviously meant to be enjoyed.” Well, I think arguments for design can be far more developed than that. What I'm saying works for people who argue for design based on everything from fine tuning to Aquinas' Five Ways to even arguments many would normally categorize as ID. But if the person doesn't think those arguments are purely scientific, they'd (at least given those standards) not be making ID arguments.nullasalus
June 19, 2011
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A person who rejects ID (and remember, simply thinking ID is not science is sufficient for rejecting it) may still come to a positive design conclusion about nature or natural things.
In my experience, when someone rejects ID as "not science" it is based upon some straw-man caricature of ID. They have no rational reason for doing so.Mung
June 19, 2011
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From the OP:
It’s possible to answer “yes” to the Design Question, and still reject ID as stated.
I agree with this. In fact, without any 'yes' answers to "the Design question," there is no basis for an inference to design (Intelligent Design). A major lacunae in most objections to ID is the refusal to address the Design question for events and artifacts known to be designed. On the ID side we perhaps ought to be creating a library of artifacts of known provenance with CSI calculations.Mung
June 19, 2011
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I'll toss in my two cents. The description of science by nullasalus (#2) seems quite reasonable to me. I also agree with nullasalus (#5) that it is rather difficult to give a complete and perfect characterization of science. kairosfocus (#3 and #7) objects to the use of "pragmatic". In my opinion, nullasalus has that just right. Science is a pragmatic enterprise. To say that is very different from claiming that truth is defined as "that which works." That sort of pragmatic theory of truth seems seriously mistaken, while the pragmatism of science is clear enough.Neil Rickert
June 19, 2011
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As I'm hearing it, I can say, "Look at that - it's so complicated it must have been designed," or "All these wonderful emotions, sights, sounds, smells, and tastes were obviously meant to be enjoyed." I can believe those things, and they are valid reasoning all by themselves. But those viewpoints aren't scientific, and they aren't ID. That makes sense. I find both lines of evidence compelling. We shouldn't need ID. ID faces the daunting task of scientifically demonstrating the obvious to those who actively or passively deny evidence and reason. It's like a painting for people who don't like art galleries.ScottAndrews
June 19, 2011
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Null: I take your distinction, with a note. "Pragmatic models" unfortunately will raise the question of judging truthfulness by workability, the key criterion of pragmatism. Provisional, empirically tested explanatory models, laws and theories, perhaps? I take your point that there is no adequate comprehensive simple one size fits all definition of science and its methods. However, we do need a sufficiently clear and comprehensive description to contrast with the one being put forward, applied atheism by the back door of suggesting that science must explain naturalistically; without telling the worldview level questions being begged there. That is why I suggested as already linked, which in turn traces back to Newton's in a nutshell in Opticks, Query 31. (I think a simplified version of this is the root of the old grade school definition of science and its methods.) GEM of TKIkairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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What subtle point, exactly, is being made here, and why? In plain English?allanius
June 19, 2011
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kairosfocus, I think it is important to clarify key terms like “science” in this context, especially given the Lewontinian-Saganian type agenda that redefines science as applied atheism, and also infers it to be the only begetter of truth, indeed to be not only the paradigm but the definition of rationality. Maybe, but rigidly defining "science" is quite a tall task, and is going to be fraught with disagreements anyway. I think it's vastly easier (and more productive) to knock down that attempt to define science as 'applied atheism' and 'the only begetter of truth', and to highlight the metaphysical and philosophical smuggling that goes on in such practices. I would go along with much of your summary, though I would hesitate on the term pragmatism, as the concept of truth being defined based on “it works” is exceedingly problematic, even self-referentially incoherent. But I didn't define truth as "that which works". I said science makes use of pragmatic models. On the other hand, I don't think science is defined as simply "the pursuit of truth" either. Science is a useful, but pretty limited thing. Which is why quite a lot of that 'agenda' you speak of involves passing off as scientific that which is actually philosophy and metaphysics spiked with some science.nullasalus
June 19, 2011
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F/N: I think Wells' "infer" is a heavily freighted word, implying a whole agenda of inference to empirically anchored best current explanation across live option alternatives.kairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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Null: I think it is important to clarify key terms like "science" in this context, especially given the Lewontinian-Saganian type agenda that redefines science as applied atheism, and also infers it to be the only begetter of truth, indeed to be not only the paradigm but the definition of rationality. (Which is of course self-refuting.) I would go along with much of your summary, though I would hesitate on the term pragmatism, as the concept of truth being defined based on "it works" is exceedingly problematic, even self-referentially incoherent. I think that the concept of a progressive, observational/ experimental evidence led progressive pursuit of the truth about our world captures some of the nuances that pragamtism does not, while escaping the problems that philosophy faces. Gkairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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kairosfocus, Pardon a question, but how do you try to define/ accurately describe science, as is or as an ideal/ ought to be? Loosely, I'd say science is a method of inquiry which typically relies on repeatable experimentation and observation to make pragmatic models. And my own view is that science as science is utterly silent on questions of God, teleology, etc. Meaning 'it neither includes or excludes God or teleology, or even discusses the necessity or lack thereof of God'. You can't go out and get God/gods/many other things in a laboratory, and 'unguided / purposeless nature' is always something assumed or requires philosophical, metaphysical, or (a) theological supplement, never something demonstrated in the lab in a purely scientific manner. I want to stress here that I'm not making the argument here that ID is not science - I tried to be neutral on that question. My point was only that a person could (and a number do) reject ID while still affirming design and design arguments.nullasalus
June 19, 2011
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Null Pardon a question, but how do you try to define/ accurately describe science, as is or as an ideal/ ought to be? [Cf my own thoughts here, which take the ought to be track.] GEM of TKI PS: The discussion by Wells is very useful.kairosfocus
June 19, 2011
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