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L&FP, 58b: The JoHari Window and recognising limits of our knowledge

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The JoHari Window provides a useful context to control speculation or accusation or assumption posing as knowledge:

Here, we see a personal focus. This can readily be extended to institutions, movements, interest groups and the public. We can even see, through faction dynamics, how a minority may see while the community at large is innocently or even willfully blind, stuck in an ill advised business as usual.

For example:

Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .

Therefore, we are well advised to heed an adjusted form of Dallas Willard’s observation on knowledge and how it confers legitimate authority:

To have knowledge in the dispositional sense—where you know things you are not necessarily thinking about at the time—is to be able to represent something as it is on an adequate basis of thought or experience, not to exclude communications from qualified sources (“authority”). This is the “knowledge” of ordinary life, and it is what you expect of your electrician, auto mechanic, math teacher, and physician. Knowledge is not rare, and it is not esoteric . . . no satisfactory general description of “an adequate basis of thought or experience” has ever been achieved. We are nevertheless able to determine in many specific types of cases that such a basis is or is not present [p.19] . . . .

Knowledge, but not mere belief or feeling, generally confers the right to act and to direct action, or even to form and supervise policy. [p. 20] . . . .

[K]nowledge authorizes one to act, to direct action, to develop and supervise policy, and to teach. It does so because, as everyone assumes, it enables us to deal more successfully with reality: with what we can count on, have to deal with, or are apt to have bruising encounters with. Knowledge involves [ADJ: warranted, credibly true (so reliable) belief] [p. 4, Dallas Willard & Literary Heirs, The Disappearance of Moral Knowledge, Routledge|Taylor& Francis Group, 2018.] . . .

Knowledge, then, confers legitimate authority rooted in wisdom. So, there is a tendency to over-claim one’s knowledge and to dismiss what those one differs with may know. This underscores the crucial importance of objective warrant.

Including, when what is warranted is negative knowledge, knowing that one or one’s institution or movement does not know. Likewise, knowing that others, too may not know.

However, this is no excuse for failing/refusing to learn and warrant, or for selectively hyperskeptical dismissal of reasonable warrant. Extraordinary claims only require reasonable, adequate warrant.

Again, it is clear that knowledge (as it embeds hard questions) is not simple. END

Comments
Querius:
So what’s the experimentally measured half life of DNA extracted from animals in caves or other even more ideal environments such as permafrost? With a constant humidity and temperature, the effects of background radiation gain importance.
As I've said more than once, it has been shown that DNA fragments survive for millenia in suitable conditions. Overlapping fragments can be matched to produce longer sequences. The risks of amplification of contaminant DNA is now well understood and can be minimised.
Tiny segments of DNA do not make the grade of “DNA sequencing.”
Short sequences can be matched for overlap.
A related question is “What constitutes the minimum useful fragment length of DNA?” Certainly not one or two base pairs, right? And then there’s DNA deamination to consider as well.
Yes, I agree that a doublet of nucleotides tells us little. But a 20 - 30 base sequence tells us something when among a mix of fragments.Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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AF, slanderer...
Good grief! You are the quote-miner!
...to double down on a false dismissal of the significance of coded information in D/RNA.
Information is stored in DNA sequences, you can call it "encoded" if you like the analogy but it is misleading.
I actually gave a more complete text already.
Then why not link to it? Do you have a copy of Lehninger? Which edition? I get the impression you are cherry-picking secondary sources.
Get thee to a Library
I live in France. The availability of anglophone scientific works is somewhat limited.
and have a modicum of decency. KF
Thou Pharisee!Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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Q, I actually found and provided half life data, tying provided values at 100 and 0 degrees C. Not sure where that thread is, but it is there. KFkairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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PS, just to underscore, I start with a figure, p. 189:
FIGURE 1-29 Two ancient scripts. (a) The Prism of Sennacherib, inscribed in about 700 BCE, describes in characters of the Assyrian language some historical events during the reign of King Sennacherib. The Prism contains about 20,000 characters, weighs about 50 kg, and has survived almost intact for about 2,700 years. (b) The single DNA molecule of the bacterium E. coli, leaking out of a disrupted cell, is hundreds of times longer than the cell itself and contains all the encoded information necessary to specify the cell’s structure and functions. The bacterial DNA contains about 4.6 million characters (nucleotides), weighs less than 10 ^ - 10  g, and has undergone only relatively minor changes during the past several million years . . .
Then, pp. 189/90:
The sequence of the monomeric subunits, the nucleotides (strictly, deoxyribonucleotides, as discussed below), in this linear | polymer encodes the instructions for forming all other cellular components and provides a template for the production of identical DNA molecules to be distributed to progeny when a cell divides . . . . A human sperm or egg, carrying the accumulated hereditary information of billions of years of evolution, transmits this inheritance in the form of DNA molecules, in which the linear sequence of covalently linked nucleotide subunits encodes the genetic message.
Notice, the distinction marked between the template and "this linear | polymer encodes the instructions for forming all other cellular components . . ." I have already noted how the templating follows a stepwise sequential process with halting. Notice, Lehninger's heirs continue, "the linear sequence of covalently linked nucleotide subunits encodes the genetic message." Then, p. 192:
A single page of this book contains about 5,000 characters, so the entire book contains about 5 million characters. The chromosome of E. coli also contains about 5 million characters (nucleotide pairs).
AF is doing little more than doubling down on a hyperskeptical bluff because he understands the significance of such language and does not wish to go there. As he is manifestly in the wrong about DNA encoding, we can take his rhetorical stunts and antics as a backhanded admission of the force of the point. PPS, on the already patently false accusation of quote mining, pp. 194 - 5, in more detail but highlighted:
The information in DNA is encoded in its linear (one- dimensional) sequence of deoxyribonucleotide subunits, but the expression of this information results in a three-dimensional cell. This change from one to three dimensions occurs in two phases. | A linear sequence of deoxyribonucleotides in DNA codes (through an intermediary, RNA) for the production of a protein with a corresponding linear sequence of amino acids (Fig. 1-31). The protein folds into a particular three-dimensional shape, determined by its amino acid sequence and stabilized primarily by noncovalent interactions. Although the final shape of the folded protein is dictated by its amino acid sequence, the folding of many proteins is aided by “molecular chaperones” (see Fig. 4-28). The precise three-dimensional structure, or native conformation, of the protein is crucial to its function. [Cited, per fair academic/educational use.]
Thus, not at all misquoted or taken out of context to distort patently and even insistently intended meaning. The latest rhetorical doubling down stunt by AF backfires and ends up underscoring the significance of four state per character text or digital code in the cell, thus language, and the significance of some of that code expressing algorithms, stepwise goal directed sequences. And, noting that this is four state per digit machine code for numerical control is actually obvious to anyone familiar with computer architecture. There is a reason why one readily finds tables of the genetic code, mention of variants and discussion of recent modification and application to general data storage. Repeat, the objections and accusations are there because of the ideological "need to deny" the patent force of the design inference on coded text and so linguistic information and algorithms in the cell. As to Lehninger, this text is not on trial, AF is. And, he has failed.kairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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Kairosfocus @11, And while on the subject of DNA/RNA coding sequences, we still haven't received a proper response for my challenges of experimental data regarding:
So what’s the experimentally measured half life of DNA extracted from animals in caves or other even more ideal environments such as permafrost? With a constant humidity and temperature, the effects of background radiation gain importance.
Tiny segments of DNA do not make the grade of “DNA sequencing.”
A related question is “What constitutes the minimum useful fragment length of DNA?” Certainly not one or two base pairs, right? And then there’s DNA deamination to consider as well.
In this case I'd add, how much code can be missing from DNA or RNA sequences to render sequencing unreliable: Is it 100% missing? 50% missing (after one half life)? 75% missing (after two half lives)? -QQuerius
September 20, 2022
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AF, slanderer, to double down on a false dismissal of the significance of coded information in D/RNA. I actually gave a more complete text already. Get thee to a Library and have a modicum of decency. KFkairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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AF, the text makes little difference, I simply compressed.
So I'm being asked to argue with Kairosfocus' quote mines of a biochemistry textbook. Pretty deceitful behaviour, KF.Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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JVL, apparently the US Intelligence community adapted it to deal with, it seems, inter alia understanding their hall of mirrors problem. In terms of knowledge at group, movement, institution or community level, what is known to us and them are in common known knowns. What is known to us but not them is secure classified information, our known knowns and what is known to others but blind to us is the mirror image of that. Not known to anyone can be known as not known or not even known to be not known -- ultimate unknown unknowns . . . see Mr Rumsfeld's remarks which were exactly on a matter of devastating intelligence failure. . Understanding one's state of knowledge and that of relevant others is vital. And so forth, there are several twists and turns in it try the second order knowledge issues on knowing that one knows, etc . . . watch the hall of mirrors emerge and say, hi there. Knowledge, is not a simple issue. KFkairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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AF, the text makes little difference, I simply compressed. And you know your attempt to reject code is precisely the issue. Answered, from a standard text, with edition and page; get thee to a Library. KFkairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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Too late to edit. Should be another "is". "What text there is is uncontroversial."Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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Just out of curiosity, KF, where did you get the text from that I quote from your comment #3 above: “The information in DNA is encoded in its linear (one-dimensional) sequence of deoxyribonucleotide subunits . . . . A linear sequence of deoxyribonucleotides in DNA codes (through an intermediary, RNA) for the production of a protein with a corresponding linear sequence of amino acids . . . Although the final shape of the folded protein is dictated by its amino acid sequence, the folding of many proteins is aided by “molecular chaperones” . . . The precise three-dimensional structure, or native conformation, of the protein is crucial to its function.” Why all the ellipses? Are they in the original text? What text there is uncontroversial. I would not have used "encoded" but other than that, what's the beef?Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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While I am familiar with the 'window' I didn't realise that that particular derivation came from a technique developed in psychology.
The Johari window is a technique[1] designed to help people better understand their relationship with themselves and others. It was created by psychologists Joseph Luft (1916–2014) and Harrington Ingham (1916–1995) in 1955, and is used primarily in self-help groups and corporate settings as a heuristic exercise. Luft and Ingham named their model "Johari" using a combination of their first names.
In the exercise, someone picks a number of adjectives from a list, choosing ones they feel describe their own personality. The subject's peers then get the same list, and each picks an equal number of adjectives that describe the subject. These adjectives are then inserted into a two-by-two grid of four cells. The philosopher Charles Handy calls this concept the Johari House with four rooms. Room one is the part of ourselves that we and others see. Room two contains aspects that others see but we are unaware of. Room three is the private space we know but hide from others. Room four is the unconscious part of us that neither ourselves nor others see.
Not sure how all that applies to a general theory of knowledge however.JVL
September 20, 2022
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Glancing at reviews and recommendations, it seems Lehninger is considered a good choice for first year university students taking biochemistry. Fine. So why, KF, should I be concerned about a particular biochemistry student textbook?Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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AF, you know full well that Lehninger is an epochal, yardstick reference text on the state of core biochemistry, indeed it shaped the modern approach. You further know full well that it undercuts your pretence that it is not widely recognised that D/RNA uses codes, and that undergrads and others reading the said text have a right to consider themselves, on that strength, as "able to represent something as it is on an adequate basis of thought or experience, not to exclude communications from qualified sources (“authority”)." You have now tried to double down, dismissing rather than to cogently responding to:
"The information in DNA is encoded in its linear (one-dimensional) sequence of deoxyribonucleotide subunits . . . . A linear sequence of deoxyribonucleotides in DNA codes (through an intermediary, RNA) for the production of a protein with a corresponding linear sequence of amino acids . . . Although the final shape of the folded protein is dictated by its amino acid sequence, the folding of many proteins is aided by “molecular chaperones” . . . The precise three-dimensional structure, or native conformation, of the protein is crucial to its function." [Principles of Biochemistry, 8th Edn, 2021, pp 194 – 5. Now authored by Nelson, Cox et al, Lehninger having passed on in 1986. Attempts to rhetorically pretend on claimed superior knowledge of Biochemistry, that D/RNA does not contain coded information expressing algorithms using string data structures, collapse. We now have to address the implications of language, goal directed stepwise processes and underlying sophisticated polymer chemistry and molecular nanotech in the heart of cellular metabolism and replication.]
See https://uncommondescent.com/darwinist-debaterhetorical-tactics/protein-synthesis-what-frequent-objector-af-cannot-acknowledge/ That tells us all we need to know about the sort of rhetorical stunts you are inclined to pull. Sadly telling. KFkairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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So why should I be concerned about a particular biochemistry student textbook?Alan Fox
September 20, 2022
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L&FP, 58b: The JoHari Window and recognising limits of our knowledgekairosfocus
September 20, 2022
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