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BA77’s off topic thread, Volume 1 — my pastor’s wife in Cosmopolitan

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Since BA77 likes posting so many off topic comments on so many threads, and because others probably want to talk about off topics, I’m creating the first official off topic thread at UD just for off topic comments. YAY!

Here is my off topic, my pastor tried to get the congregation to stick around for 20 minutes longer than usual to take care of business matters requiring a vote. To give us incentive to remain, he said he’d pass around a copy of Cosmopolitan Magazine with a photo of his wife in it :shock:! Sure enough, she was in cosmopolitan magazine in the May 1965 issue. She was in a photo that featured former Congressman James Weaver, her dad….


Also, I think the chances of Darwinian evolution and mindless OOL being true are more remote than the chances of the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns playing each other in the next Superbowl.

Also, I really hate Windows 8.

So, speak your mind but exercise some discretion, keep it family friendly, and try not to start flame wars or launch into attacks against other UD participants. Other than that, talk about what you want. Enjoy!

Academic freedom? Oh, I meant freedom for me to express my opinion! Not you yours! Indiana Professors Question Ball State University's Disregard For Rules on Academic Freedom - Joshua Youngkin August 25, 2013 Excerpt: The slickest way for administrators to dodge the requirements of academic freedom is to dodge the faculty handbook, which is what BSU has done, as Kelly and Murphy point out. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/indiana_profess075781.html bornagain77
Beyond Black and Yellow: The Stunning Colors of America’s Native Bees - beautiful pictures http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/08/beautiful-bees/?pid=7213&viewall=true bornagain77
Shockfossil - Electricitree 1 - photo http://shockfossils.deviantart.com/art/Electricitree-1-134451109 Shockfossil - Swallowtail Butterfly - photo http://shockfossils.deviantart.com/art/Swallowtail-134453289 Shockfossil - Pulmonary - photo http://shockfossils.deviantart.com/art/Pulmonary-295250795 How Shockfossils are made - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8biE3uP_nOI bornagain77
Does Information Create The Cosmos? - Closer To Truth - Juan Maldacena - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfa-vveeXpM Juan Maldacena discusses quantum information, digital physics and the holographic principle. bornagain77
Axel @ 92:
Chasing maids’, he had said, in reference to is misspent youth. After a few centuries, it sounds beautifully poetic, doesn’t?
That it does. Barb
Axel, condolences. G kairosfocus
By popular demand, I'm going to start another off topic thread today or tomorrow. scordova
podcast: Apologist Interview: John Frame http://www.apologetics315.com/2010/10/apologist-interview-john-frame.html transcript: http://www.apologetics315.com/2013/08/john-frame-interview-transcript.html Dr. Frame is a philosopher and a Calvinist theologian, especially noted for his work in epistemology and presuppositional apologetics - also systematic theology and ethics. He is one of the foremost interpreters and critics of the thought of Cornelius Van Til and his publications include Van Til the Theologian, bornagain77
podcast - "Serendipity and Exaptation: Circular Arguments for Darwinian Evolution" http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-08-23T17_39_21-07_00 Casey Luskin and guest Dr. Cornelius Hunter talk about the issue of serendipity and what it means for the modern theory of evolution. Dr. Hunter discusses how Darwinian evolutionists have relied heavily on serendipity and exaptation to explain complex features in biology and prop up their theory. bornagain77
Michael Behe interviewed by Apologetics315 - podcast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tYASh0R2bI from 2011, but I never recall seeing the interview being put on UD bornagain77
Understanding Intelligent Design - Sean McDowell - (July 21, 2013) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do14SJ9RY4A bornagain77
Per Dr. Hunter Non-random enviromentally induced changes observed in real time: Tiny Fish Make 'Eyes' at Their Killer - Aug. 19, 2013 Excerpt: Researchers from Australia's ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies (CoECRS) have made a world-first discovery that, when constantly threatened with being eaten, small damsel fish not only grow a larger false 'eye spot' near their tail -- but also reduce the size of their real eyes. The result is a fish that looks like it is heading in the opposite direction -- potentially confusing predatory fish with plans to gobble them up,,, "We found that when young damsel fish were placed in a specially built tank where they could see and smell predatory fish without being attacked, they automatically began to grow a bigger eye spot, and their real eye became relatively smaller, compared with damsels exposed only to herbivorous fish, or isolated ones.,, When the researchers investigated what happens in nature on a coral reef with lots of predators, they found that juvenile damsel fish with enlarged eye spots had an amazing five times the survival rate of fish with a normal-sized spot.,,, The team also noted that when placed in proximity to a predator the young damsel fish also adopted other protective behaviours and features, including reducing activity levels, taking refuge more often and developing a chunkier body shape less easy for a predator to swallow. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130819102728.htm 10 Years of Weather History in 3 Minutes - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieILUnkdD90 bornagain77
They're Still Just Bacteria, Mr. Zimmer! - August 21, 2013 Excerpt: Zimmer complains: "[Critics]...aren't satisfied with this experiment because it isn't a large-scale episodes of evolution-the split between species, for example, or the origin of an eye or a hand. (I'm guessing here, but it's a guess educated on many previous such comments.) Large-scale episodes take time, typically stretching across thousands or millions of years. The scientists who study bacteria over the course of a few weeks don't expect to witness such transformations." Again, Zimmer is implying the very thing not present in the study: that this observation of "evolution in action" can explain bacteria to man. He finds the "but its still bacteria" complaint to be just "wrong-headed" and concludes with: "Such a remark isn't just wrong-headed about evolution, though. It reveals a misunderstanding of bacteria. Bacteria originated about 3.5 billion years ago and have been diversifying into many different forms ever since. Some bacteria float in the ocean, turning sunlight into carbon. Others breathe iron. Others make squid glow. Watching bacteria evolve in a Petri dish helps us to understand not just evolution in general, but bacteria in all their particulars." In other words, 3.5 billion years later, we have many divergent types of bacteria, but they are all "still just bacteria". What's the problem? http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/theyre_still_ju075731.html
Mr. Zimmer might be very surprised at just how much purchase the "still just bacteria" complaint has against his preferred Darwinian view of reality:
AMBER: THE LOOKING GLASS INTO THE PAST: Excerpt: These (fossilized bacteria) cells are actually very similar to present day cyanobacteria. This is not only true for an isolated case but many living genera of cyanobacteria can be linked to fossil cyanobacteria. The detail noted in the fossils of this group gives indication of extreme conservation of morphology, more extreme than in other organisms. http://bcb705.blogspot.com/2007/03/amber-looking-glass-into-past_23.html Static evolution: is pond scum the same now as billions of years ago? Excerpt: But what intrigues (paleo-biologist) J. William Schopf most is lack of change. Schopf was struck 30 years ago by the apparent similarities between some 1-billion-year-old fossils of blue-green bacteria and their modern microbial counterparts. "They surprisingly looked exactly like modern species," Schopf recalls. Now, after comparing data from throughout the world, Schopf and others have concluded that modern pond scum differs little from the ancient blue-greens. "This similarity in morphology is widespread among fossils of [varying] times," says Schopf. As evidence, he cites the 3,000 such fossils found; http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Static+evolution%3A+is+pond+scum+the+same+now+as+billions+of+years+ago%3F-a014909330 The Paradox of the "Ancient" (250 Million Year Old) Bacterium Which Contains "Modern" Protein-Coding Genes: “Almost without exception, bacteria isolated from ancient material have proven to closely resemble modern bacteria at both morphological and molecular levels.” Heather Maughan*, C. William Birky Jr., Wayne L. Nicholson, William D. Rosenzweig§ and Russell H. Vreeland ; http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/19/9/1637
Despite Mr. Zimmer's protestations to the contrary, we have very good reason to believe that Darwinism cannot do what is claimed of it, even with billions of years at its disposal:
A review of The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism Excerpt: The numbers of Plasmodium and HIV in the last 50 years greatly exceeds the total number of mammals since their supposed evolutionary origin (several hundred million years ago), yet little has been achieved by evolution. This suggests that mammals could have “invented” little in their time frame. Behe: ‘Our experience with HIV gives good reason to think that Darwinism doesn’t do much—even with billions of years and all the cells in that world at its disposal’ (p. 155). http://creation.com/review-michael-behe-edge-of-evolution More Darwinian Degradation - M. Behe - January 2012 Excerpt: Recently a paper appeared by Ratcliff et al. (2012) entitled “Experimental evolution of mulitcellularity” and received a fair amount of press attention, including a story in the New York Times.,,, It seems to me that Richard Lenski, who knows how to get the most publicity out of exceedingly modest laboratory results, has taught his student well. In fact, the results can be regarded as the loss of two pre-existing abilities: 1) the loss of the ability to separate from the mother cell during cell division; and 2) the loss of control of apoptosis. http://behe.uncommondescent.com/2012/01/more-darwinian-degradation/
Related comment on the fossil record:
"We go from single cell protozoa. which would be ameoba and things like that. Then you get into some that are a little bit bigger, still single cell, and then you get aggregates, they're still individual cells that aggregate together. They don't seem to have much in the way of cooperation,,, but when you really talk about a functioning organism, that has more than just one type of cell, you are talking about a sponge and you can have hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of cells. So we don't really have organisms that function with say two different types of cells, but there is only five total. We don't have anything like that." - Dr. Raymond G. Bohlin - quote taken from 31:00 minute mark of this following video Natural Limits to Biological Change 2/2 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo3OKSGeFRQ
Mr. Zimmer on the off chance that you ever read this, as in the movie 'The Graduate',,,
The Graduate "One Word: Plastics" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSxihhBzCjk
,,,I give you "One Word: Information" Verse and Music:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Brooke Fraser- “C S Lewis Song” http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DL6LPLNX If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world. C.S. Lewis (Mere Christianity, Bk. III, chap. 10, “Hope”)
How about the orthographically-challenged anagram of 'dame', 'maid', which I heard Kiwi, Ian McCormack, say in a remarkable YouTube video of an NDE exerience he had, Barb? Very poetic. I had to have a double-take, to check if my ears had deceived me. 'Chasing maids', he had said, in reference to is misspent youth. After a few centuries, it sounds beautifully poetic, doesn't? In the other direction, I remember the protagonist in a P G Wodehouse story (probably, Wodehouse) misreading 'her hoary-headed swain' - hoary-headed apparently being a poetic rendering of 'fair-haired' - as the very unpoetic, 'her hairy-headed swine'. Axel
at89 Thanks Johnnyfarmer! bornagain77
NIST ytterbium atomic clocks set record for stability - August 22, 2013 Excerpt: A pair of experimental atomic clocks based on ytterbium atoms at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has set a new record for stability. The clocks act like 21st-century pendulums or metronomes that could swing back and forth with perfect timing for a period comparable to the age of the universe. NIST physicists report in the Aug. 22 issue of Science Express that the ytterbium clocks' tick is more stable than any other atomic clock. Stability can be thought of as how precisely the duration of each tick matches every other tick. The ytterbium clock ticks are stable to within less than two parts in 1 quintillion (1 followed by 18 zeros), roughly 10 times better than the previous best published results for other atomic clocks. This dramatic breakthrough has the potential for significant impacts not only on timekeeping, but also on a broad range of sensors measuring quantities that have tiny effects on the ticking rate of atomic clocks, including gravity, magnetic fields, and temperature http://phys.org/news/2013-08-nist-ytterbium-atomic-clocks-stability.html bornagain77
tragic mishap @ 81 In defense of BA77's spam.... I come to this site to learn and BA77 finds information that I would not have time to find and probably could not find it even if I did have time. So I agree that we should have an off topic thread ... Actually I think we should have two off topic threads. One would be for general off topic discussions and another dedicated to BA77's off topic posting. He does access a huge amount of information. And otherwise some of his posting is on topic and much appreciated. Johnnyfarmer
julianbre thanks! ,, I showed the 'Mentally Ill' article that you just referenced to a psychologist and she got a kick out of it. correction on the last post I posted. I believe the main reason that they gave in the video why teleportation would take so long is the constraint on bandwidth not the one by one entanglement that I had mistakenly said. bornagain77
Thanks BA77 for your off topic posts! You have given me lots of new reading material and love the videos as well. Since this is an official off topic post: Are atheists mentally ill? I believe this is the quote of the year. "Therefore, being an atheist – lacking the vital faculty of faith – should be seen as an affliction, and a tragic deficiency: something akin to blindness. Which makes Richard Dawkins the intellectual equivalent of an amputee, furiously waving his stumps in the air, boasting that he has no hands." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100231060/are-atheists-mentally-ill/ julianbre
Tragic states:
I would just like to voice my support for BA posting everything here instead of other threads. I don’t know about anyone else, but I never read anything BA posts. Ever. Having him post here would be better on my eyes and who knows, I might actually read something he posts once in awhile if it wasn’t constantly inserting itself into the middle of a completely unrelated conversation.
Oh well I am sorry. :( I'll try to be more circumspect in the future. But, as they say, it's hard to teach an old dog,,, but I'll try,,
bow wow wow yippy yo yippy yay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KML0NxxGe-k
Tragic also, I guess in mocking my many posts on Quantum Mechanics, states:
"Oh and Quantum mechanics is the answer."
OK (if anyone else besides tragic cares), so far so good for a lot of very interesting questions that go very deep into reality, but let's ask one more important question past tragic's answer, let's also ask, 'where does quantum mechanics come from in the first place?' And the answer to that question is pretty neat:
In the following video, from the 22:27 to the 29:50 minute mark, is a pretty neat little presentation of the Shrodinger Equation in answer to the question, 'Why does mathematics describe the universe?' The Professors: An after-hours conversation on Georgia Tech's hardest questions - veritas video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vBQ9uFOFLWM&t=1349
Of course, in my opinion, the professor could have gone a bit further in the video and pointed out Godel's incompleteness. But anyways, despite my druthers, he is completely right in his assessment,,,,
"Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe." Galileo Mathematics and Physics – A Happy Coincidence? – William Lane Craig – video http://www.metacafe.com/w/9826382
Myself, if one just stopped at this point of asking questions, 'Quantum mechanics is the answer', and looked no further than that answer, then one would miss the far more important, deeper, question and answer that followed after that deep answer:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Centrality of Each Individual Observer In The Universe and Christ’s Very Credible Reconciliation Of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SDgYPHPcrl1XX39EXhaQzk7M0zmANKdYIetpZ-WB5Y/edit?hl=en_US
Also of related interest to 'quantum mechanics is the answer', the following video pretty much blows a materialistic conception of the human body completely out of the water since it shows that humans can be, in principle, reduced to quantum information and teleported to another location in the universe:
New Breakthrough in (Quantum) Teleportation - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xqZI31udJg Quote from video: "There are 10^28 atoms in the human body.,, The amount of data contained in the whole human,, is 3.02 x 10^32 gigabytes of information. Using a high bandwidth transfer that data would take about 4.5 x 10^18 years to teleport 1 time. That is 350,000 times the age of the universe." for comparison sake: "The theoretical (information) density of DNA is you could store the total world information, which is 1.8 zetabytes, at least in 2011, in about 4 grams of DNA." (a zettabyte is one billion trillion or 10^21 bytes of digital data) Sriram Kosuri PhD. - Wyss Institute
What is interesting in the preceding video is that they talk of having to entangle each and every one of the material particles of the human body on a one by one basis in order to teleport the human body successfully(and that is why the teleportation of a human body would take so long). But what they have failed to point out in the video is that there is already massive quantum entanglement within the human body in every protein and DNA molecule:
Coherent Intrachain energy migration at room temperature - Elisabetta Collini and Gregory Scholes - University of Toronto - Science, 323, (2009), pp. 369-73 Excerpt: The authors conducted an experiment to observe quantum coherence dynamics in relation to energy transfer. The experiment, conducted at room temperature, examined chain conformations, such as those found in the proteins of living cells. Neighbouring molecules along the backbone of a protein chain were seen to have coherent energy transfer. Where this happens quantum decoherence (the underlying tendency to loss of coherence due to interaction with the environment) is able to be resisted, and the evolution of the system remains entangled as a single quantum state. http://www.scimednet.org/quantum-coherence-living-cells-and-protein/ Quantum entanglement between the electron clouds of nucleic acids in DNA - Elisabeth Rieper, Janet Anders and Vlatko Vedral - February 2011 http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1006/1006.4053v2.pdf
Thus, if one holds a Theistic view of reality as I do then, considering that massive quantum entanglement already exists in the entire human body, than one could reasonably argue that the human body is already teleportation ready! :)
1 Corinthians 15:52-53 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
Where I Belong Share - Building 429 http://myktis.com/songs/where-i-belong/
Barb, broads and dames, yep. I've heard him use both. CentralScrutinizer
Barb @ 71 Yeah, but “broads” sounds so much cooler when imagined with a Frank Sinatra Brooklyn accent.
Anything sounds cooler with a Brooklyn accent. Although I think Frank would've called them 'dames', wouldn't he? Barb
#82. 'Oh and Quantum Mechanics is the answer. You bet it is. Unless, you really don't approve of successful science, where it shows up the often tragic mishaps in the thinking of scientism's finest. Axel
Sometimes I wonder whether everyone else is off-topic and BA is the only one who is on topic. True story. Oh and Quantum mechanics is the answer. tragic mishap
I would just like to voice my support for BA posting everything here instead of other threads. I don't know about anyone else, but I never read anything BA posts. Ever. Having him post here would be better on my eyes and who knows, I might actually read something he posts once in awhile if it wasn't constantly inserting itself into the middle of a completely unrelated conversation. tragic mishap
Because of the popularity of this thread, I moved it up in priority to give it a little more air time. scordova
An interview with Stephen Meyer: An intelligent defense of Intelligent Design: - Jonathan Merritt | Aug 20, 2013 http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2013/08/20/an-intelligent-defense-of-intelligent-design-an-interview-with-stephen-meyer/ bornagain77
'Broad' and the Aussie, 'sheila', are more evocative, even graphic to my ears. Axel
Let's make all the stops... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5Ffds1aEo CentralScrutinizer
Barb @ 71 Yeah, but "broads" sounds so much cooler when imagined with a Frank Sinatra Brooklyn accent. CentralScrutinizer
COLLIN (re 2 above): "Also, I have been told that Michael Denton argues that this proves evolution is NOT true." Don't believe what you've been told. Read Denton for yourself. Your source probably had in mind Denton's first book, in which he shows that in many respects, the biochemical data supports a "creationist" explanation of origins rather than a Darwinian one. However, even in that first book, Denton did not argue: "Therefore, evolution is wrong and creationism is true." Rather, he left the whole matter unsettled. (He also later said that he should have titled the book: "Darwinism: A Theory in Crisis" rather than "Evolution: A Theory in Crisis" -- because people were taking him to have rejected "evolution" when really he was only showing the problem with Darwinian theory.) In his second book, Nature's Destiny, Denton moved beyond the argument of the first, and tried to show how evolution, operating in a non-Darwinian way, could produce results which look creationist while in fact proceeding naturalistically. The difference between the two books was not one of religious belief; Denton had already abandoned his childhood Protestant faith even before writing the first book. The difference, rather, was that Denton had not come up with the idea of changes being "stored" and used later, cumulatively with other changes, which would allow for big qualitative differences in creatures, even though the original mutations proceeded only in tiny steps, most of which resulted in no visible change in the creature. Denton's books are both good, but they should be read in chronological order, so that you can see how his thought changes and how the second book is in a way an answer to the question posed by the first book. Timaeus
The Talbott article, as usual, was a very insightful read, and even had an appeal for common ground between Darwinists and ID advocates: HOW BIOLOGISTS LOST SIGHT OF THE MEANING OF LIFE — AND ARE NOW STARING IT IN THE FACE - Stephen L. Talbott - May 2012 Excerpt: “If you think air traffic controllers have a tough job guiding planes into major airports or across a crowded continental airspace, consider the challenge facing a human cell trying to position its proteins”. A given cell, he notes, may make more than 10,000 different proteins, and typically contains more than a billion protein molecules at any one time. “Somehow a cell must get all its proteins to their correct destinations — and equally important, keep these molecules out of the wrong places”. And further: “It’s almost as if every mRNA [an intermediate between a gene and a corresponding protein] coming out of the nucleus knows where it’s going” (Travis 2011),,, Further, the billion protein molecules in a cell are virtually all capable of interacting with each other to one degree or another; they are subject to getting misfolded or “all balled up with one another”; they are critically modified through the attachment or detachment of molecular subunits, often in rapid order and with immediate implications for changing function; they can wind up inside large-capacity “transport vehicles” headed in any number of directions; they can be sidetracked by diverse processes of degradation and recycling . . . and so on without end. Yet the coherence of the whole is maintained. The question is indeed, then, “How does the organism meaningfully dispose of all its molecules, getting them to the right places and into the right interactions?” The same sort of question can be asked of cells, for example in the growing embryo, where literal streams of cells are flowing to their appointed places, differentiating themselves into different types as they go, and adjusting themselves to all sorts of unpredictable perturbations — even to the degree of responding appropriately when a lab technician excises a clump of them from one location in a young embryo and puts them in another, where they may proceed to adapt themselves in an entirely different and proper way to the new environment. It is hard to quibble with the immediate impression that form (which is more idea-like than thing-like) is primary, and the material particulars subsidiary. Two systems biologists, one from the Max Delbrück Center for Molecular Medicine in Germany and one from Harvard Medical School, frame one part of the problem this way: "The human body is formed by trillions of individual cells. These cells work together with remarkable precision, first forming an adult organism out of a single fertilized egg, and then keeping the organism alive and functional for decades. To achieve this precision, one would assume that each individual cell reacts in a reliable, reproducible way to a given input, faithfully executing the required task. However, a growing number of studies investigating cellular processes on the level of single cells revealed large heterogeneity even among genetically identical cells of the same cell type. (Loewer and Lahav 2011)" ,,, Tangentially speaking: it would be well for biologists to pull back a little from the religious wars and realize that the truly fundamental problem most people have with much of the biological and evolutionary literature is rather simple and needs respectful addressing. We read accounts of the organism such as those just given — stories whose meaningful intricacies and coherent, eloquent plot lines never cease to surprise us, far outshining the highest literary achievements of a Shakespeare or Goethe or Pushkin. And then we hear that all this meaningful activity is, somehow, meaningless or a product of meaninglessness. This, I believe, is the real issue troubling the majority of the American populace when they are asked about their belief in evolution. They see one thing and then are told, more or less directly, that they are really seeing its denial. Yet no one has ever explained to them how you get meaning from meaninglessness — a difficult enough task once you realize that we cannot articulate any knowledge of the world at all except in the language of meaning. I see no reason why the issue of meaning couldn’t become common ground for reasoned conversation between intelligent design advocates (who, after all, believe in the centrality of the logos) and conventional evolutionary theorists (who commonly grant that natural selection produces at least the appearance of meaning in the world), as well as the rest of us. Taking this meaning seriously and introducing some ways of thinking about it is what I have attempted here. It does not seem ignoble to set out on such a task, however much views — our meanings — may differ. http://www.netfuture.org/2012/May1012_184.html#2 bornagain77
HOW BIOLOGISTS LOST SIGHT OF THE MEANING OF LIFE — AND ARE NOW STARING IT IN THE FACE - Stephen L. Talbott - May 2012 Excerpt: What do we mean by “meaning”? The form of the question already suggests something amiss. Might we end up wandering in circles? After all, we must already know the meaning of a question before we can answer it. And beyond that, inquiries about the meaning of “meaning” might seem to launch us upon a mystifying pursuit of some inner essence or spiritual content we can never quite lay hold of. Perhaps this explains why so many biologists shun the idea that organisms engage in meaningful activity — that their lives can only be understood as lives of meaning. The idea may seem little more than a subjective and vaguely numinous obfuscation threatening objective description and theory. You would make a rare find if you came upon an entry for “meaning” in the index of a biological textbook. Even in examining a considerable shelf of anthologies on the philosophy of biology — books where difficult and even disreputable issues are often brought up for discussion — I can discover not a single index listing for the word.,,, http://www.netfuture.org/2012/May1012_184.html#2 bornagain77
Thank you, Salvatore. Very kind of you. It happened about May 24, last year. Axel
CentralScrutinizer @ 36:
To pick up broads.
We prefer the term 'skirts.' Barb
Axel, Thanks for sharing such a personal anecdote. Whenever it happened, my sympathies. God bless, Sal scordova
Thanks, Philip. Glad you liked it. I'll be getting that book, Forever Ours, and passing it on, I expect. Sounds a heart-warming theme. #68: comical, but also very, very sad; a desperately sad indication of the level of integrity in universities, and of course, wider society. Axel
Dr. Hunter channels Berlinski: Evolution is Making a List - Cornelius Hunter - August 18. 2013 Excerpt: research out of Japan continues to reveal the importance of epigenetic differences. Their research suggests that DNA methylation changes “contribute to transcriptional and phenotypic diversification in hominid evolution.” In other words, evolution occurred via incredibly complex molecular “bar code” mechanisms which, themselves, must have been created by evolution. So evolution must have created the mechanisms which cause evolution to occur. That is what philosophers call a self-referential theory. (Other people just call it wrong). But epigenetics is only one of many. Another conundrum is the genetic networks which, as McGill University’s Leon Glass explains, are so complex that researchers have been slow to unravel them. Yet everyone is certain they evolved. One sure sign that a problem is not solved (and therefore not a fact) is when the answer continues to switch between alternatives. For origin of life researchers, those alternatives have included a warm little pond (as Darwin put it), deep sea hydrothermal vents, and outer space. Last year the ball went back into the warm little pond court, but now NASA’s Mike Russell just hit it back into the deep sea hydrothermal vent court. So what’s next? Look for a new comet soon that puts the ball back into outer space. Of course none of these problems are very serious since it is certain that evolution is true. In fact, not only did evolution create all things, it also supplies right and wrong and the proper punishment to go along with it. As evolutionists at Michigan State University now explain, “We found evolution will punish you if you’re selfish and mean.” So evolution is not only true, it is also good. It’s making a list and checking it twice; it’s gonna find out who’s naughty and nice. http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2013/08/weekend-roundup.html bornagain77
Life Got You Down? Just Remember You Got Opposable Thumbs! - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s8y9a12saU bornagain77
OK one more time.... the proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzv5XVx3Wc Which resolves the dog cat evolution debate on this threadhttps://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/intelligent-design/am-i-the-only-id-proponent-that-doesnt-like-the-phrase-positive-case-for-id/ (and now you know why I don't have posting privileges) Johnnyfarmer
OK fixed link here is evidence http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/CatDog.jpeg/250px-CatDog.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CatDog& Johnnyfarmer
Did dogs evolve from cats or did both dogs and cats evolve from a common ancestor? Here is the proof .... now you decide ! http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/CatDog.jpeg/250px-CatDog.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CatDog& Johnnyfarmer
Axel, that was beautiful. If might suggest a book: 'Forever Ours',, Forever Ours: Real Stories of Immortality and Living from a Forensic Pathologist - Janis Amatuzio http://www.amazon.com/Forever-Ours-Immortality-Forensic-Pathologist/dp/1577315995 here is a video of her: Dr. Janis Amatuzio author of FOREVER OURS - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtnywJHLrLY bornagain77
Philip, I live in a second floor flat, the block being part of one of the three sides of a square, the fourth side opening onto premises of a garage, and with a communal green in the middle. I believe it was two days after my wife died in hospital, I was sitting at my computer, when I heard a rustling sound behind me. When I looked round, to my astonishment, I saw a blue tit sitting on a coffee table my wife kept by her armchair, (which had been temporarily moved,) looking at me quite cheekily. I hadn't noticed him when he flew through the door on my left, but the only way he could have gained entry to the flat was by flying through the window in my step-son's temporary bedroom at the back, and into the living room where I sat, through an arm of the L-shaped hall leading along the other arm to the front door. Si was in the bathroom next door to his room, at the time. He had only propped up the window a few inches, so our friend must have hopped through the gap. He seemed a young bird, as he wasn't scared. Well, I doubt if he'd have been the intrepid explorer if he had been. He wasn't a great tit, as he had a poll and less neat markings. He had the slightly puffed up look of a fledgling too, I believe. Anyway, he then took it upon himself to fly to the largish potted plant on the shelf a few feet to my right, and stared at me for a while. He then decided to fly out of one of the windows, none of which however were open, so he bumped into it. I then tried to open the windows, but feared to strain too much with the large middle window because of a heart condition, so called out to Si to come quickly, fearing he'd crash into a window again. However, he had flown up to the frieze below the ceiling overlooking where he had first alighted on the coffee table, by where my wife used to sit. Si told me to calm down, thought for a mo, then closed the venetian blinds on all the windows but the side window I had opened, then went and stood by the coffee table, below him and several feet across the room. The bird looked at him for several seconds, then flew straight out of the clear, open window. We were tickled pink about it, and I got to wondering what it could have meant. My first thought was that with his farewell stare, he was saying to Simon, 'Thank goodness someone's got his head screwed on,' but some moments later I decided it was most likely acting per pro his mother (or in loco matri) and saying to him, 'I'll always be with you, Si Si, (which she used to call him, apparently when he was little), never far from you.' Then later I continued musing on its significance, other than as some kind of consolation, which it really was, to both of us. 'Why a blue tit?' I wondered. Then I remembered that only the day before, I'd told Si what an obsession his Mum had had with the colour, blue! I can imagine God suggesting the game to Anthea, and how tickled she'd have been. My wife's internal organs had begun to fail badly, and on the face of it I thought of the things that could have been done by either or both of us to improve the situation, yet, when I went through each one, I realised that the whole affair could not have transpired more felicitously, immediate appearances notwithstading. 'Good old God!' as I like to say, when I'm pleased with a particularly propitious dispensation of his providence, in my admittedly not always clear-sighted eyes, and of course of which I approve mightily. Heck, even Nick Matze might, in my shoes. Axel
Thanks Andre, here is the entire article for those who, like me, do not have a subscription:
We Don't Actually Know What Triggers Lightning Strikes: A scientist asks: Could it be cosmic rays? By Katia Moskvitch|Posted Sunday, Aug. 18, 2013 Excerpt: What don't we know about lightning? The main problem is that we don't know how a thundercloud gets the spark needed to initiate a lightning bolt. The biggest mystery is that the electric field in thunderclouds is not very large. Years of experimental measurements from aeroplanes and air balloons have shown that the field is about 10 times smaller than what is needed to initiate lightning. It is not clear how a lightning bolt is born, but the idea is that something has to "seed" it first. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/08/lightning_strikes_what_causes_lightning_is_a_mystery_could_it_be_cosmic.html
Hmmm, interesting. Of related interest; Rainbows are formed by what are called ‘Quantum Catastrophes’.
Quantum Catastrophes Excerpt: Catastrophes [1] are at the heart of many fascinating optical phenomena. The most prominent example of such a catastrophe is the rainbow. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~ulf/catastrophe.html
Thus, since I find Quantum Mechanical phenomena to be thoroughly Theistic in their nature in requiring a 'non-local', beyond space and time, cause to ultimately explain them completely, then yes, I actually do think God does form the rainbows;
Genesis 9:12-13 The rainbow that I have put in the sky will be my sign to you and to every living creature on earth. It will remind you that I will keep this promise forever.
Of related interest, this following woman has no doubt that her rainbow was a miracle
27 Amazing Miracles in Real Life Excerpt: Our son died of a brain tumor at 17. On the second anniversary of his death, as I was driving to work, a double rainbow appeared in the clear sky. One end was on the road in front of us and the other at the cemetery where he was buried. —Peggy H., Boone, North Carolina http://www.rd.com/family/27-amazing-miracles-in-real-life-2/
Oceanlab - Miracle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZHGMbQhmIM
The most viewed thread at UD in the last few months: https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/humor/breaking-news-michael-shermer-issues-cease-and-desist-order-against-pz-myers/ Approaching 6000 views! scordova
Since Off-Topic seems popular, and since I may refer to BA77 in the future, in honor of BA77 past and present off-topic contributions to UD, I retitled this thread: BA77's off topic thread, Volume 1 scordova
I think the Off Topic Thread should be a weekly feature.
Sounds good to me. ATTN: UD authors, feel free to start Off-Topic thread if I don't. I think slightly irregular works since some news days are much slower than others.... scordova
Photons, Double Helixes and Euler's Equation Quantum theory survives latest challenge - Dec 15, 2010 Excerpt: Even assuming that entangled photons could respond to one another instantly, the correlations between polarization states still violated Leggett’s inequality. The conclusion being that instantaneous communication is not enough to explain entanglement and realism must also be abandoned. This conclusion is now backed up by Sonja Franke-Arnold and collegues at the University of Glasgow and University of Strathclyde who have performed another experiment showing that entangled photons show stronger correlations than allowed for particles with individually defined properties – even if they would be allowed to communicate constantly.,,, In photons, orbital angular momentum can be understood by imagining that the wave twists around the beam axis. It can draw a simple corkscrew pattern, a double helix or more complex helices with increasing angular momentum. Franke-Arnold and her team focused on the double-helix pattern.,,, "The main outcome is really a philosophical result," says Franke-Arnold. Entangled particles can't be described as individual entities, not even with a telepathic connection to their partners. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2010/dec/15/quantum-theory-survives-latest-challenge Moreover the 'double helix' of the orbital angular momentum of a photon can be,,, Single photons to soak up data: Excerpt: the orbital angular momentum of a photon can take on an infinite number of values.Since a photon can also exist in a superposition of these states, it could – in principle – be encoded with an infinite amount of information. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/7201 Moreover, if one looks on slide 17 of the following site, you will notice that information was actually encoded onto a single photon by taken advantage of this double helix pattern of a photon with a 'spiral phase plate': Information In Photon – Robert W. Boyd – slides from presentation (slide 17) http://www.quantumphotonics.uottawa.ca/assets/pdf/Boyd-Como-InPho.pdf But what is more interesting to note (at least fot me) is that slide 15 and 17 of the preceding presentation has an uncanny resemblance to Euler's Equation as is plotted in the following graph: Graph of Euler's Equation http://www.songho.ca/math/euler/euler.html And for those who have missed kairosfocus waxing poetic about Euler's Equation, Euler's Equation is regarded as the most enigmatic equation in math, and kairosfocus is hardly the only mathematician who has ever waxed poetic about it: God by the Numbers - Connecting the constants Excerpt: The final number comes from theoretical mathematics. It is Euler's (pronounced "Oiler's") number: e^pi*i. This number is equal to -1, so when the formula is written e^pi*i+1 = 0, it connects the five most important constants in mathematics (e, pi, i, 0, and 1) along with three of the most important mathematical operations (addition, multiplication, and exponentiation). These five constants symbolize the four major branches of classical mathematics: arithmetic, represented by 1 and 0; algebra, by i; geometry, by pi; and analysis, by e, the base of the natural log. e^pi*i+1 = 0 has been called "the most famous of all formulas," because, as one textbook says, "It appeals equally to the mystic, the scientist, the philosopher, and the mathematician.",,, The discovery of this number gave mathematicians the same sense of delight and wonder that would come from the discovery that three broken pieces of pottery, each made in different countries, could be fitted together to make a perfect sphere. It seemed to argue that there was a plan where no plan should be.,,, http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/march/26.44.html?start=3 and of course the double helix is also found in DNA http://www.dataprotection.com/images/uploads/blog/DNA_Image.jpg and light (biophotons) are also found in DNA Are humans really beings of light? Excerpt: A particularly gifted student talked him into another experiment.,,, He also found that DNA could send out a wide range of frequencies, some of which seemed to be linked to certain functions. If DNA stored this light, it would naturally emit more light on being unzipped. These and other studies proved to Popp that one of the most essential sources of light and biophoton emissions was DNA. http://viewzone2.com/dna.html Well, is there some hidden 'design correlation' between the double helix pattern of a photon of light and the double helix pattern of DNA? Who knows? But it certainly is an interesting 'coincidence' that seems to signify much more going in on DNA on meets the eye at first glance. bornagain77
Axel @ 52 Funny stuff! :D Thanks for a morning laff! CentralScrutinizer
BA77 This beauty is for your collection http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929290.400-an-unearthly-answer-to-the-lightning-enigma.html To think that we still don't know what triggers Lightning :) Andre
"Somewhat ironically, a type of pathogenic bacteria that have evolved to swarm together more swiftly are actually less efficient when it comes to forming biofilms, scientists have found. ...Joao Xavier from the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York and his colleagues show that Pseudomonas aeruginosa is subject to an evolutionary trade-off between motility and effective biofilm formation. “We were surprised that the hyperswarmers were worse at forming biofilms than the wild type,” Xavier told New Scientist." (Bacterial Quid Pro Quo, August 19, 2013) http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view%2FarticleNo%2F37105%2Ftitle%2FBacterial-Quid-Pro-Quo%2F A mutation that improves one function quite often degrades another (Behe: first rule). bornagain77
I think the Off Topic Thread should be a weekly feature. bevets
Sorry. I should have grouped the above posts together. Or some of them. TSErik, Anglo-Indian and born in India, apart from one or two memory flashes, my earliest recollections are of the hospital ship we were brought back to the UK on by our mother, during the war. So, I grew up in outer London, and we grew up with the distinct impression that London was the hub of the universe, and everyone else in the country, including the denizens of the major cities, were yokels. There was absolutely no malice in it whatsoever. We were just infinitely patronising and blissfully unaware of it. How could we have been aware of it, since we loved them all the more for being yokels! I've since been told that Londoners are hated by the provincials. I wonder why? My sister in Australia married a lad from Felixstowe, Suffolk, who was in the navy with my brother, and she hasn't quite lost the Suffolk accent she picked up, after close on 50 years. East Anglia, the West Country and the South, all sound 'yokel' accents to our ears. I was talking the other day about the extraordinary genius for metaphor displayed in the various Anglo-Saxon (for want of a better designation) slang vocabularies, in the various English-speaking parts of the world. This wry, satirical humour is very characteristically working class (when work was about), and unsurprisingly, though the players earn a fortune today, often found in soccer talk. I believe it's the Ipswich team they call, 'the tractor boys'. Maybe it's a carry-over from an earlier day, when players would have been recruited locally, but probably not. Just a gratuitous jest! No offence in all this, Johnnyfarmer... Will you take that straw out of your mouth! Bill Bryson is very funny describing his encounter with two Bristol girls and the way they talked, but the funniest of all was his encounter with the barman and his boss with their broad Glaswegian accent, when he went into a pub in a side-street. And I can tell you, when an Edinburgher speaks to you, while laughing, never mind the impaired fluency, the accent becomes so broad, what is said becomes completely unintelligible, no matter how hard you try. Some Scots can't understand each other. So, in the end you just have to nod, and pretend - as did Bryson. The funny things was, when the boss appeared the bar-tender offered his services to him as an interpreter of what his boss was saying! Or it could even have been to his boss of what Bryson was saying! I can't be sure now, in recollection, but I believe it was the former. In the end, he had to finish his beer quickly as the strain of maintaining the well-meaning duplicity, feigning comprehension and whatever facial expressions might be called for, became too much. Tangentially, I've been absolutely bowled over by some names: Republican congressman, Saxby Chambliss, French footballer, Celestine Babayaro - that whole, World Cup-winning team had magical names. Axel
'OT: There are a couple great new posts up at ENV showing what a slime ball Nick Matzke is.' Nick's still smarting about God being nasty (in his very humble opinion). Traumatized. Next stage will be catatonia. Axel
#49 '....But it’s still less than one percent of the information that is stored in all the DNA molecules of a human being.' No it isn't! na... na... na... na...na. No, it isn't! na..na..na..na..na...na No it isn't! na... na... na... na...na. All chance! Axel
I really liked this quote "Put another way, if a single star is a bit of information, that's a galaxy of information for every person in the world. That's 315 times the number of grains of sand in the world. But it's still less than one percent of the information that is stored in all the DNA molecules of a human being." Andre
'“The theoretical (information) density of DNA is you could store the total world information, which is 1.8 zetabytes, at least in 2011, in about 4 grams of DNA.” (a zettabyte is one billion trillion or 10^21 bytes of digital data) Sriram Kosuri PhD. – Wyss Institute' Just chance, Philip. Don't read too much into it. Axel
'To pick up broads!' Excellent, CentralScrutinizer Axel
UD thread pages break browser's Back button Once you enter a thread page such as this one, the page re-enters itself recursively so that browser history shows that same page as the previous page. Hence, if you press Back button to go back, you are still in the same page. To get out you need to press Back button again. This particular type of bad manners has been making the "top ten" worst web designs since the early years web e.g. see Nielsen's Alert Box "top 10 design mistakes" from 1999, where it and its variant make the top two design mistakes. Can someone in charge inject a bit of 'intelligent design' into the page design itself, for harmony sake? nightlight
Well wordpress 3.6 is now available maybe upgrade? BTW I love Windows 8, sometimes I wonder why Microsoft did not think of some of the features back in Windows 95 :) I have however noted most complaints about Windows 8 is from laptop users and the issue is the Windows Gestures & Laptops to fix it go here http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-ways-to-disable-windows-8-gestures/ Also if you miss your start menu don't fret, SP1 will have it back but if you really want a start menu now go here! http://www.iobit.com/iobitstartmenu8.php Windows 8 is an incredibly stable release of Windows that is much lower on resources than Windows 7. Andre
Can an admin please delete all but my first post? Thank you.
I removed them even though I'm not the Admin (superuser). We've been having some problems with the website. Thanks for preserving through the website difficulties. scordova
Sorry for the repeat posts friends, I kept getting errors when trying to publish. Wasn't aware that any had been posted. Can an admin please delete all but my first post? Thank you. humbled
New off topics for anyone: 1. What's your favorite hash algorithm? And Why? 2. Is technology, on average, a bane or blessing to humanity? Where is it the most detrimental, and where the most beneficial? 3. If fruit evolved, why are they all portioned for a meal for one or two people (in a meal or as a snack)? If you say because people picked only the one's they could manage easiest, then will you predict that fruits found in the fossil record that are hand-sized should not predate humans? ..hmm.. never read much about fruit fossils come to think of it. JGuy
It's amazing how unguided random chance processes are capable of creating all this information! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110210141219.htm All hail dumb luck! Andre
#32 Barb
I would like to state for the record that hell on earth can be found on the northbound ramp to I-85 heading out of Atlanta at 5:30 pm
I lived in Buckhead from 1986-88. It sounds like I-85 has not changed in 30 years. Mark Frank
Seems something devious going on here….
I'm bogging down too... scordova
for comparison sake: "The theoretical (information) density of DNA is you could store the total world information, which is 1.8 zetabytes, at least in 2011, in about 4 grams of DNA." (a zettabyte is one billion trillion or 10^21 bytes of digital data) Sriram Kosuri PhD. - Wyss Institute bornagain77
Quote from video: "There are 10^28 atoms in the human body.,, The amount of data contained in the whole human,, is 3.02 x 10^32 gigabytes of information. Using a high bandwidth transfer that data would take about 4.5 x 10^18 years to teleport 1 time. That is 350,000 times the age of the universe." bornagain77
What is the primary purpose of language?
To pick up broads. ;) CentralScrutinizer
New Breakthrough in (Quantum) Teleportation - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xqZI31udJg bornagain77
podcast - Dr. Stephen Meyer on the Lars Larson Show. Dr. Meyer discusses the shirking of academic freedom by Ball State University, the widespread evidence for intelligence in life, and what Darwin didn’t know when he developed his theory. http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-08-19T15_40_16-07_00 bornagain77
Suddenly this evening my browser is taking about a minute to get me to this site and when I go from topic to topic it is just as slow. Other sites are OK Also read @ 19 about a library unable to access this site on their computers. I ran malwarebytes and no problems detected Maybe I will try my laptop (if I can find it) Seems something devious going on here.... Johnnyfarmer
Of Dining Tables and Why Evolution is Right Regardless (of the evidence) - Cornelius Hunter - podcast http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2013/08/podcast-of-dining-tables-and-why.html and Aristotelianism is Dead, Long Live Aristotelianism = Cornelius Hunter - podcast http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2013/08/podcast-aristotelianism-is-dead-long.html bornagain77
More brilliant biomimicry: Bio-Inspired Design May Lead to More Energy Efficient Windows Jammer
Your #15, TSErik: Do you mean the accent of the East Anglian farmers or eastern states of America?
@Axel: I was meaning the East Anglian farmers. Like I said, I can't articulate why I find it so charming, but I have ever since arriving in the UK 3 years ago. TSErik
I would like to state for the record that hell on earth can be found on the northbound ramp to I-85 heading out of Atlanta at 5:30 pm. Oh, and I'm really sick of the rain. It has rained nearly all summer and I still haven't been to the lake yet. On another note, I need a smartphone but I prefer Android models. I used to have a Samsung Captivate. Any recommendations? Barb
Italian can sound heavenly, Bruce, especially, especially spoken by a woman; and similarly French. We find a French accent very sexy. But one of he funniest things I have ever heard is a Frenchman imitating an Englishman (generally very poor latin-language speakers) trying to speak French. Very, very funny, and not all that inaccurate. Few English people seem able to pronounce the French syllable, 'en' or 'an'; instead it's pronounced as 'on'. This makes the affectation, not perhaps an unreasonable one, of trying to pronounce the last syllable in 'restaurant' the French way somewhat futile - falling between two stools. Spanish has a very sonorous sound to it, or can do. I mean, for example, the river, the Guadalquivir, sounds like a drum roll. Martial. Curious how, we use French names, such as 'coiffeur' to be posh, their shops are called 'hairdressers' to sound posh! There are other examples, but it's late at night/am. It's the British Norman/norseman ruling class thing, I think. They seemed to dominate most of Europe in the middle-ages. Axel
Your #15, TSErik: Do you mean the accent of the East Anglian farmers or eastern states of America? Axel
OT: better link: Closer To Truth Asks Fotini Markopoulou: Why Is The Universe So Breathtaking? - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Q4m5T7knM bornagain77
OT: Closer To Truth Asks Fotini Markopoulou: Why Is The Universe So Breathtaking? - video http://www.youtube.com/user/JohananRaatz/videos bornagain77
I'm a South African living in the UK. When I first arrived the English couldn't understand me and I certainly couldn't understand them. There is a huge difference between the upper class (Queens English) and the average working lads accent. Never struggle with American accents though, probably due to growing up watching mostly American television. After using Windows 8 for a few months I must say I now prefer it. It loads quicker, is more responsive and is imho a superior product. The Home screen and lack of the start button still irritates me though. Would also like to take this chance to thank UD for their great articles. The comments are great too :) humbled
@ Neil That's why I substituted 'ought'. I am often frustrated trying to communicate in French because cultural bias and misunderstanding run deep. Alan Fox
Alan Fox:
What is the primary purpose of language?
I'd say that language evolved to bind us into cooperative cultures. But then politics evolved to use language to divide us. Neil Rickert
SCordova, One's accent is based on one's evolutionary environment. After time, one will adapt to that environment. This is why I believe evolution is not true, because my bro-in-law is from Wales. He's been living in Canada for over 30 years and hasn't adapted yet. :) CannuckianYankee
So I come back here after a year or so of not posting (but I have been lurking off and on), and what do I find? A perfect OT thread on which to post whatever. It couldn't be any better. Liz Liddle, nice to see you back on here. BTW - the San Bernardino County CA library has blocked this blog throughout it's library computer system for no apparent reason. I'm looking into it, and may be writing a formal letter of complaint based on either a clerical error or viewpoint discrimination. I'm not certain what it is at this point. Could use a few pointers on how to go about this task. CannuckianYankee
Perhaps I should have said what ought to be the primary purpose of language. Alan Fox
What is the primary purpose of language? Alan Fox
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on accents. My native language is Tagalog (from the Philippines). I can no longer speak it but I can understand it. Curiously, I recall having conversations in Tagalog with my Mom which happened before I consistently spoke English, but my memory of those conversations has been translated into English! I can only attribute that to how the mind tries to remember things and will distort memories but maybe retain a general impression and then reconstruct the details imperfectly. Having lost the ability to speak Tagalog fluently. I'm told by Filipinos when I attempt a few words, I pronounce Tagalog words with an American accent! I guess that means I've really lost my native tongue. I've visited various Indian reservations and there are a lot of languages that are going extinct in addition to cultures. I'm grateful for any effort to archive artifacts of the Indian culture and language that look like they will go extinct as the native American Indians continue to assimilate into the American melting pot... I really like old movies or TV and radio broadcasts, and even then I can hear the slight evolution of accents over the years. scordova
I agree about Windows 8. If this post comes out wrong, it’s because of Windows 8.
Yes. Windows 8 is awful. Especially for those of us who may be gamers in our other lives.
To those that live in the UK, is the sound of American English hard on UK ears?
Sal, Interesting question that I may answer a bit. I'm American but have been living in the UK for the past 3 years. The Brits over here, especially around the university, seem taken with my accent. They all seem to simply love it. One common reason I've heard is because it's the language of Hollywood. Interestingly enough, they also seem to like the flavorful American accents, such as Tennessee or Georgia southern drawls, or the harsh Bronx of New York, and even the Chicagoan accents. They often see the Texan, or western (but east of California) accents as a "tough guy" sound. I've also learned a thing or two about the various regional British dialects. It's interesting that back in the States most Americans equate any British accent with the posh, learned, and high society. Yet, after living here, I can say that accent really only relates to the south-east of Britain. One need only hear a Geordie, or Scouser talk for a bit, if one can understand them, before the illusion is shattered. It's a running gag here about "stupid northerners" where the accent is the key to the joke. Now, strangely enough I love Geordie accents, whereas with the clipped Essex accent, one syllable is enough for me. But my favo(u)rite accent, believe it or not, is that of the eastern "farmers". I find it charming. Heaven only knows why. TSErik
Mark Frank: I have since learned that the American accent is reckoned by experts to be more similar to 16th century English than the British received pronunciation.
Yeah, but which one? :D All the regional accents sound very different to me. I think I heard years ago that the Bostonian accent is the one that is the closest to what you're referring to. Hard to believe that accents can diverge so much in a couple hundred years. CentralScrutinizer
I love many US accents for their vitality and colour. When I lived in Atlanta I was in a production of 12th Night (amateur of course) - all the rest of the cast were American. The American accents suited Shakespeare much better than my British one and I have since learned that the American accent is reckoned by experts to be more similar to 16th century English than the British received pronunciation. Mark Frank
I'd make an off-topic post, but I'm too busy playing Guild Wars 2. William J Murray
Bruce, I would have to agree with that. Italian, esp certain regions, very nice to the ear. And I love the wimmen. :) CentralScrutinizer
To my ear, the nicest sounding language is Italian. I was also born and raised in the Midwest of the US, and I quite like the sound of an Oxford accent as well. Bruce David
Sal, To me, the nicest sound is any language is, "who do I make the check out to?" There are dozens of different pronunciations in the UK, some sound cultivated (because they stem from the traditionally higher educated classes who value(d) precise diction), and some sound downright ridiculous, yet amusing and even charming, to me, because of the traditional sloppy diction of the underclasses. I prefer the latter. North America (USA + Cananda) has at least ten major pronunciation groups (that I can think of.) The one that the world is most familiar with is the "broadcast standard" which is basically the west coast pronunciation that is a modification of the midwest pronunciation with some New England influence. The broadcast standard became such due to the fact that Hollywood CA is the main source for movie production for the last 80 years. Quite frankly, to me, the "high class" English that the Windsors speak sounds dull and quite uncharming. Yawn. And I hate French with a passion. Any pronunciation. Sounds like they have marbles in their mouths. For me, Japanese is beautiful. Verbal Art. That's what led me to study it for many years. Spanish is very nice. Not the Mexican variety, but the speakers from Spain. P.S. I was born and raised in So Calif. I speak the broadcast standard. I think the broadcast standard is rather flat and uninteresting. But it's difficult to be objective about your mother tongue. CentralScrutinizer
To those that live in the UK, is the sound of American English hard on UK ears? I didn't realize this fact:
Approximately two-thirds of the world's native speakers of English live in the United States.[2]
When I hear someone speak with an English accent (like those in the UK), it sounds so sophisticated and upper class. Edwin Hubble was from Missouri in the US, and supposedly was embarrassed at his American English, and after a few weeks at Oxford adopted the English accent which he used the rest of his life. In the USA, if one is from the North East, the sound of the Southern Accent form the deep south, like say Mississippi, conveys a certain stereotype that isn't too flattering. The Southern Accent from Texas or Georgia sound somewhat stately. So how does American English sound to UK ears. Did Hubble have good reason to adopt an English accent to elevate the impression he made on people. I kind of like hearing Amanda Drury on CNBC with her Australian accent. Too me, the nicest sounding language is French. When I hear the French speak English, it sounds nice on my ears. scordova
But if an off topic comment is put on a off topic thread would that not make it an on topic comment? Opps, sagebrush gardener beat me to it. But anyways,,, on topic, off topic, whatever, here is a poem: Lightning - Inspirational Poem http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4236830/ bornagain77
In my last comment, last sentence, the word "this" refers to the idea of nested hierarchy. Collin
I agree about Windows 8. If this post comes out wrong, it's because of Windows 8. Elizabeth B Liddle
Is this off-topic by being on-topic in an "off-topic" thread?... I was fully prepared to hate Windows 8 when I was forced to purchase a new laptop for work, but after a week of use I think it's really not so bad. I also like the touch-screen more than I thought I would. Except for the beloved "Start" menu being replaced by that gaudy, sideways-scrolling, whatever-you-call-it, I can hardly tell the difference once all my usual applications are open. And even the new process of finding a program by typing the name instead of clicking through the Start menu seems more efficient once you get used to it. And why don't you make BA a moderator, so he can post all the (off)topics he wants without interrupting the flow of others' discussions? sagebrush gardener
Also, I really hate Windows 8.
Then there is something that we agree on. Neil Rickert
I need clarification on the "nested hierarchy" argument. It has been said that evolution is true because life can be objectively sorted into a nested hierarchy. I would love it if someone could summarize this argument and why it is strong. My understanding, from a biology student friend of mine, is that an engineer or designer would be able to put gills on a whale, but since we see that a whale has lungs, hair, mammary glands, we know that it evolved within a certain domain. An automobile designer does not need to combine the 4-wheel design, with an airbag and a combustion engine. He can mix and match. Here is my proposed response: 1. The evolutionist assumes that the designer is God. We can dispense with that assumption and say that a designer may have to work with the hand he has been dealt and it may be very difficult to give a whale gills, so he choses to stay with lungs. 2. The nested hierarchy may be violated in some instances. For example, the platypus lays eggs. And there are examples of "convergent" evolution. Doesn't convergent evolution show this "mixing and matching" that a designer would do? Does it violate the idea of a nested hierarchy? Also, I have been told that Michael Denton argues that this proves evolution is NOT true. Collin
Be sure and watch for my new book, Evo-illusion. It will be available in the next few weeks. I promise it will give you many new insights as to why evolution may not be the final answer to the Puzzle of the existence of living organisms. Its loaded with thought experiments that you will be able to do yourself, no matter what your education is, to help YOU figure out what may or may not have happened to bring about the beginning of life, multi-celled organisms, and us. You will not need the thinking of others; by reading Evo-illusion, YOU will be able to form your own conclusions. Evo-illusion will take you from the beginnings of the universe, the formation of the building blocks of life, the first proto-cells, the formation of DNA, whales, birds, and us. It has some fascinating conclusions about the future of mankind on this earth that will amaze you. It takes a purely science based and objective view of this controversial science. http://www.evillusion.net/ . melvinvines

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