Michael Egnor: The atheists’ Divine Hiddenness argument against God’s existence = nonsense

AaronS1978 @6,

There’s no such thing as supernatural but there’s tons of alternate realities outside of our nature

Good point! -Q Querius

Isn’t this the same stupid logic that used to justify why We never find aliens they’re so far advanced we can’t detect them It’s the same type of silliness that’s more like “good for me but not for the” It’s like out atheist don’t believe in angels and demons believe in aliens and trans dimensional beings There’s no such thing as supernatural but there’s tons of alternate realities outside of our nature AaronS1978

In my discussions with atheists, it is absolutely clear that they do not accept the reality of anything subjective. Atheists also have problems in dealing with ordinary human emotions, because they are subjective. They don't only have problems with God. mohammadnursyamsu

After Dr. Egnor shows that the atheist's Divine Hiddenness argument is actually a "precis of atheist arrogance" in that if even one atheist disbelieves in God then, according to their argument, that one disbeliever disproves God's existence, after that straightforward rebuttal of their argument, Dr Egnor then ends his article with this rather impressive list of ways that God can be known, via the intellect, and then he asks atheists, "What is it about God’s existence that you still consider hidden?"

Consider the ten ways that simple everyday experience provides inexhaustible evidence for His existence: Every change in nature proves His existence. Every cause in nature proves His existence. Everything that exists in nature proves His existence. Every degree of perfection in nature proves His existence. Every manifestation of natural design proves His existence. Every realization of possibility in nature proves His existence. Every manifestation of organization in nature proves His existence. Every abstract concept proves His existence. Every reason for anything in nature proves His existence. And every twinge of human conscience proves His existence. Natural science provides massive evidence for His existence as well. The Big Bang — i.e., the creation of the universe from nothing in an immense primordial flash of light — is a remarkable confirmation of the beginning of the book of Genesis. Astrophysicists have discovered dozens of physical forces and properties in the universe that must have very specific values to permit human life — and of course these forces and properties do have exactly the values necessary for our existence (as if Someone rigged physics just for us). The DNA in living things is an actual code — in every meaningful sense like a computer code with letters and words, grammar and phrases, sentences and punctuation. And life forms’ intracellular metabolism is run by an astonishingly intricate and elegant system of biological nanotechnology. So my question to Dillahunty and to other atheists who endorse the Divine Hiddenness argument against God’s existence is this: What is it about God’s existence that you still consider hidden?"

I imagine seeing Dr. Egnor doing a 'pen drop' after he wrote that passage and then walking off the stage. :) https://imgur.com/gallery/T8KpfzS bornagain77

I think the issue is that atheists don't take seriously the sort of being God is, a necessary, world framework entity. They don't accept that there are such beings and that such are key to the root of reality. For that I start with duality, two-ness which is at the heart of distinct identity, here of a possible world W, differing from close neighbour W' due to A, so W = {A|A'}, giving us duality as part of its framework. Try to imagine a distinct world W* where 2 does not exist or begins or ceases, W* is not possible of being. This shows necessary beings in action. Then reckon with our rational, responsible freedom and its moral government attested by conscience. Ponder an adequate root for that, that does not collapse into absurdities. You are going to be very close to the inherently good and utterly wise creator God, a necessary and maximally great being. Where, pulling back a bit, a serious candidate necessary being either is, or is impossible of being as a square circle is. 50+ years ago atheists commonly thought that God is impossible but Plantinga's free will defence put that to rest. All of this is before we note cosmological fine tuning and how it paves the way for cell based life. Or many other things. I think the no evidence gambit fails, indeed it sounds a lot like yet another bit of selective hyperskeptical rhetorical posturing. Time for rethinking. KF kairosfocus

God's existence is only hidden if you refuse to look. As the Bible says: "The heavens declare the glory of God", Psalm 19:1, and, "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities ... have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20. But as Jesus said about unbelievers, "they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." Luke 16:31. To paraphrase Blaise Pascal, there is enough evidence of God's existence to satisfy those with some faith, but not enough to convince those without. Fasteddious

From a Christian perspective, I believe that Scripture teaches us that God has revealed Himself to ALL persons in a variety of ways, most fundamentally in creation itself. Now, you can go into various directions from there (predestination, etc) that probe the depths of how much more God has revealed Himself in all His glory and truth, but the point remains--no man is without excuse, and the Divine Hiddenness argument is a load of codswallop. OldArmy94