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The error of anthropomorphism

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Some oppose a design conception of the cosmos only because they consider bizarre a “Designer” of the cosmos. This way they show to have an anthropomorphic, wrong idea of the Designer. So I think it is useful to dedicate a post to counter the error of anthropomorphism.

Specifically anthropomorphism is the error of attributing to God the human form and properties. On the contrary, the supreme Being not only transcends any human, even transcends any specific particular “being”, even transcends any “form” whatsoever.

There is no reason why one should conceive the universal Intelligence, symbolically called “Designer”, from which the cosmos fully gets its existence and design, as something limited by a form, human or whatever.

To my knowledge, in English, the suffix “er”, when applied to a verb or noun, transforms it into the cause of the verb / noun. Nowhere it is said that this X-er cause must be a specific “being”, let alone a “human”, let alone an “individual”.

So, when we apply the “er” operator to the verb / noun “design” we get the cause of the design, its intelligent cause. When the design is the entire universe, then its intelligent cause is the supreme Being itself, and for this reason, we call it “Design-er” (with the uppercase “D”).

Unfortunately not only some evolutionists / atheists are anthropomorphist. Also some Neo-Thomists oppose ID for similar reasons. For example, Neo-Thomist philosopher Edwar Feser in his post about Thomism versus the design argument quotes the following passage from Christopher F. J. Martin:

The argument from design had its heyday between the time of Newton and the time of Darwin, say, a time in which most people apparently came to see the world as a minutely designed piece of craftsmanship, like a clock. It is no coincidence that the most famous presentation of the argument from design actually compares the world to a clock: it is known by the name of Paley’s watch… The Being whose existence is revealed to us by the argument from design is not God but the Great Architect of the Deists and Freemasons, an impostor disguised as God, a stern, kindly, and immensely clever old English gentleman, equipped with apron, trowel, square and compasses. Blake has a famous picture of this figure to be seen on the walls of a thousand student bedrooms during the nineteen-seventies: the strong wind which is apparently blowing in the picture has blown away the apron, trowel and set-square but left him his beard and compasses. Ironies of history have meant that this picture of Blake’s is often taken to be a picture of God the Creator, while in fact Blake drew it as a picture of Urizen, a being who shares some of the attributes of the Great Architect and some of those of Satan. The Great Architect is not God because he is just someone like us but a lot older, cleverer and more skilful. He decides what he wants to do and therefore sets about doing the things he needs to do to achieve it. God is not like that. (C. F. J. Martin, “Thomas Aquinas: God and Explanations”, pp. 180-182)

I cited it in extenso because it is exemplar of an anti-ID position based on the equivoque of anthropomorphism. Feser’s endorsement and the above Martin’s affirmations are particularly meaningful because allow us to understand one of the reasons why some modern Neo-Thomist thinkers hate so much Intelligent Design to even go preferring Darwinism. In short they wrongly argue something like this: Intelligent Design recalls a Designer, a Designer recalls the Great Architect, the Great Architect recalls Masonry, Masonry recalls a position enemy of Catholicism. Ergo a Neo-Thomist should be contra Intelligent Design in principle.

I have not at all lost hope that Neo-Thomists and IDers (or at least, some of them) could finally arrive to an agreement in the future. For this motive I reply without the least intention of polemics, rather only to defend the truth (as I always try to honestly do). To the goal I have to clear some serious misunderstandings in the above Martin’s quote, and explain why their reasoning is not correct from several points of view.

(1) Whoever has studied the traditions, knows that the Great Architect of Masonry is not at all “an impostor disguised as God, a stern, kindly, and immensely clever old English gentleman… someone like us but a lot older, cleverer and more skilful”, as Martin believes. The Great Architect is a symbol of the universal Intellect, the Spirit of the universal Construction, the supreme Being. An orthodox Freemason is not at all Deist, and the correct metaphysical conception of the Great Architect is infinitely distant from any anthropomorphism.

(2) The conception of a “divine Constructor” is shared by all orthodox traditions (then, not only Masonry). For example, in Hinduism they call it “Wishwakarma” = “the Great Carpenter”. In Islam the very name “Allah” means also “the Great Architect” (even some letters of the term are symbolically linked to the universal design tools, square and compass). In Christianity and Judaism, the Bible is filled with design conceptions and, last but not least, Jesus, the “son of God”, was also “the son of the carpenter” and in turn a “carpenter” himself. Jesus was effectively and symbolically identified to the Great Carpenter of the cosmos, his “Father”. This fundamental characteristic of Jesus is a thing that some Christians tend to easily forget, nevertheless, for who knows that all in the life and mission of a divine descent (as Jesus was) is symbolic and has to be universalized, that attribute has meaning in connection with a design worldview, as Christianity is.

(3) About the ludicrous attempt by Martin of even equating the Great Designer / Architect with Satan, I have only to suggest him to search for Satan where he actually is, surely very far from any design conception of the world.

(4) Whatever have been the historical and political conflicts between some representatives of Masonry and Catholicism, these two traditions, in their roots, at different levels, and under different symbolic forms and expressions, share the identical metaphysical background of the supreme Being. The former underlines more its aspect of Designer while maybe the latter more other aspects, nevertheless the ultimate metaphysics is unique. (In a previous UD post myself dealt with the equivalence Being = Designer, and there I inserted indeed the Blake’s picture that scandalizes so much Martin and his likes).

At the very end, in its extreme generality, anthropomorphism is to attribute to the infinite Being the limits and forms of the infinitesimal beings. Therefore whoever IDer tries to assume a design worldview of the cosmos should avoid this error in all its forms, because the Great Designer of the universe is such unlimited Being. This way the design conception of the cosmos, and its Designer, can be defended from whoever equivocally uses the anthropomorphic pretest to badly deny the former and the latter.

Comments
velikovskys #35
Optimization is not a transcendental goal then?
If with "optimization" you mean a cosmos populated with a single standard kind of being, then your "optimized" cosmos would really be a poor cosmos, or even not a cosmos at all.
The Designer does not seem to want to leave any unequivocal proof does He?
The Designer left enough signs / proofs that a sincere seeker could find Him. But He didn't leave too many signs / proofs that who do not want to find Him could find Him.niwrad
July 14, 2014
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velikovskys @ 36, unguided/blind watchmaker evolution can't even explain DNA.Joe
July 14, 2014
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niwrad @27:
My general definition was: “anthropomorphism is to attribute to the infinite Being the limits and forms of the infinitesimal beings”. As such, anthropomorphism is somehow a mathematical error, infinite = zero.
Well, your argument then, essentially, is that if we view the designer as infinite (which cannot be ascertained from the design itself -- certainly at least not in the case of living systems -- but is an assumed quality), then we should not say the designer is less than infinite. So yes, if an IDer believes that the designer is infinite then that IDer should be consistent and not say the designer is less than infinite. Trivially true, but not very helpful from a standpoint of thinking about ID.
In this sense we have for example to interpret the affirmation that “man is made in image of God”. Here the error of anthropomorphism is to equate a symbolic representation with a photograph.
Unless of course the text is not just symbolic but was meant in a more literal sense. We are dealing with a question of exegesis, not logic or right reasoning. So, again, we are dealing with someone's personal understanding of the Bible, someone's personal philosophy about God, etc. I don't begrudge anyone their religious/philosophical beliefs in that regard. But there is no warrant to assign those understandings and philosophies to IDers in general or to argue that all IDers should adhere to them.Eric Anderson
July 14, 2014
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The top-down hierarchy of causation is good, because when we see an inferior thing we know with certainty that its cause is higher. So DNA is a higher cause than the human brain?velikovskys
July 14, 2014
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niwrad, velikovskys, Outside us, a sign of a rich designer is the prodigious varieties of forms and solutions in the living beings. Curious answer, optimization is not a transcendental goal then? A designer which ,thru speculated omniscience,chooses designs which are less optimal for survival of the living being. Inside us, a sign of an unlimited knowledge designer is the indefinite creative potentiality of our mind. Perhaps that is a Freudian slip. If the potentiality of the effect is so great, its Cause, which is necessarily higher and where such potentiality is actual, must be infinite. So basically an unprovable premise is proof that if another unproved premise is true, then a conclusion is true. The Designer does not seem to want to leave any unequivocal proof does He?velikovskys
July 14, 2014
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The giant error of evolutionism is indeed to believe that more can come from less. The top-down hierarchy of causation is good, because when we see an inferior thing we know with certainty that its cause is higher.
Right - it's not a question of complexity but of power. The power cited by evolutionary theory (blind natural process) is not adequate to explain the design. To say that the designer must be more complex than the design assumes that complexity is a measure of greatness. It should be that "the designer must have more power than what is present in the design". If the problem that people have with that, apparently, is that they're looking at an infinite regress -- but that is solved logically by the fact that any string of currently existing causes must have had a beginning - and therefore a first cause.Silver Asiatic
July 14, 2014
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An electric screwdriver is more complex than the screw and hole which it is associated with.
Paint and brushes are simpler than the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel. Paper, ink and symbols are simpler than any of Mozart's symphonies. It can then be argued that these works came from intelligence, not the materials - and the intelligence is more complex. However, those artistic works didn't come from the brain, as if it was a mechanism producing art. Those masterpieces and many other similar things come from "inspiration" - which is a "flash of insight", or an "eureka moment". Mozart, for example, wrote most of his symphonies in one sitting. Much of his artistic brilliance came at once in his head - not reducible to a "complex process". That simple flash of brilliance is an example of how something very simple and non-complex, occuring in an instant -- can produce immensely complex works of genius. The idea that "the designer must be more complex than the design" is what materialist reductionism must conclude. It can't take account of the simplicity of an intellectual insight which appears fully complete in a flash. That kind of insight is utterly simple but produces work of great complexity. Complexity in itself is not a measure of advancemment anyway. We know from human design that simplicity (a Lexus has a single button to push for ignition vs a Model T Ford which required 12 steps to start) towards a complex function is evidence of sophisticated design. A pile of rocks is a complex object. It can be produced by the simple action of gravity.Silver Asiatic
July 14, 2014
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What exceptions do we find of complex coming from something simpler?
A circle is something simple. The calculation of the circumference of that simple object yields an infinitely complex number. In classical western theology, God is purely simple. He is One - not made of parts, not divisible into anything. Fullness of being, not lacking any aspect of being.Silver Asiatic
July 14, 2014
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Ho-De-Ho #30
What exceptions do we find of complex coming from something simpler?
Thanks for your question. Answer: none. When "complexity" is meant in its higher qualitative sense, nowhere a higher, superior thing can come from a lower, inferior thing. More does not come from less. The giant error of evolutionism is indeed to believe that more can come from less. The top-down hierarchy of causation is good, because when we see an inferior thing we know with certainty that its cause is higher. If in turn we consider such cause, we know that its parent cause is higher and so on... until converging to a first Cause, which is necessarily infinite. This is a way that can lead us, step by step, from the things of creation to its intelligent transcendent Source.niwrad
July 14, 2014
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Hello Niwrad, a good thought provoking post. It got me to thinking about something which I don't believe I have seen here before. It pertains to the 'Designer' being transcendent in comparison to humans and Acartia Bogart's comment about a creator being more complex than us. Here it is. A purely material naturalist, as far as I have understood, requires a procession from simple to more complex. Starting with 'nothing' we get sub atomic things then atoms - chemistry - molecules - self-replicating molecules - proteins/enzymes/dna - single cells - multicellular organisms from sponges all the way progressing to mammals and mind. It is a easy and seductive line of reasoning. On the other hand the Designer perspective would to a large degree expect that complex designs can only come from something equal or more complex than themselves. What do we see in day to day life? I haven't thought about this much but at first blush our experience does tend to seeing things from going from complex to simpler. A birds nest is made up of simpler individual twigs and bits. However the twigs do not make the nest but a bird does, which is more complex than the nest. A car is produced at a production line. Which is more complex, the car or the production line. An electric screwdriver is more complex than the screw and hole which it is associated with. A snowflake looks more complex than a droplet of water, but is actually chemically the same thing under different temperature conditions and so one comes from something equivalent not simpler or more complex. Of course this is essentially stating top down development, but I don't think I have seen it stated like this before (although it is bound to have been thought of by others). In short it's the old observation of "You cannot give what you do not have." This just occurred to me after reading your post. What do you think? Or anybody else. What exceptions do we find of complex coming from something simpler?Ho-De-Ho
July 14, 2014
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A.B. - "HekS, this OP is about the risk of anthropomorphism, yet your analogies, and everyone that I have seen from ID, are completely anthropometric. Everything is compared to human design." Wow, not only another purposed non-answer, but one shows the ignorance and stupidity of the one suggesting such idiocy. Almost everything humans have ever invented has been plagiarized by the designs found in nature. Hence the only way in which humans are capable of understanding anything when it comes to Nature is the observation of it's design. Take away these often times ridiculous poop throwing contests on origins and you still have design in Nature. The problem with those who claim non-religion (which is a lie to begin with), is that the very rules for which their faith demands to begin with were created by their own holyman Darwin who insisted that intelligence was not requirement for life. But never once have any of these Cult Followers ever attempted an explanation as to how blind undirected, unguided forces of chemicals and physics accomplished anything miraculously complex and sophisticated. No human being presently alive or from the past has ever experienced design by dice tossing. There is simply no experience. But we never get a satisfying answer from real world experience as to how such comes about without purpose or guidance. Having listened to and read many of the desperate ignoramus explanations proposed which have never once been proven, there has always been an underlying familiarity in the sound of such proposals. Eastern religious concepts borrowed from Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc, but cleaned up enough with sophisticated modern intellectual terminology to give it the appearance of legitimacy, though still lacking. First off rules are changed. Real world historical definitions of words terms must be redefined. No so much as a different rule of what's black and white, but rather made gray, fuzzy, muddled and murky. And they literally prefer, love and thrive in a world such as this. In so many ways this evolutionary infection has tainted science in the way it operates and the solutions they invent for innovation. One of the major destructive arguments which has disrupted science are those dumb stupid religious "Bad Designer" strategies. Not surprising though since Darwin's beginning had zero to do with science and more with his beef against God. But bad designer arguments have actually backfired on Nature itself. There is no respect for Nature as a good designer, not when it's promoted as flawed, imperfect and chaotic. Most of the problems with climate break down, deforestation, even the gmo technologies all stem from nature being a bad designer and modern day genius of Darwinists know better how to fix those flaws, even though they've never proven any of this. For example, the Junk DNA dogma. No respect for the informational content of genetic information, even though it is far more complex, and brilliant than any language or communication brought about by human designers. Don't hold your breath for any satisfying answers as to how blind unguided forces accomplish anything in building and creating. Count on the ongoing burden shifting, name calling, derogatory language which is their only fall back. This is why they attempt to highjack and insert teleology and other concepts and practices normally associated with intelligence, but then deny they are doing this. They know full well that their no intelligence position makes them come off as bigger fools than they already are if they even remotely attempt to fabricate or concoct some mythical scenario to explain their religious position backed by nothing more than faith affirmations. It could and hasn't even been able to be experimented with and if claimed so, could never be proven through independent replication by anybody. Their entire faith based belief system actually hinges on their feeling comfortable that they have the consensus numbers behind them in the science world which accepts without question their version of truth. That has never worked throughout history. Exodus 23:2 New International Reader's Version (NIRV) 2 “Do not follow the crowd when they do what is wrong. When you are a witness in court, do not turn what is right into wrong. Do not go along with the crowd." Another replacement term for 'Crowd' could be "Consensus", which as with scientific consensus has done more hurt to the natural world more than ever aided in it's recovery.DavidD
July 14, 2014
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Eric Anderson #23
In sum, you have written a post to counter the “error” of anthropomorphism. However, even if we accept your definition, it is not necessarily an “error.”
My general definition was: "anthropomorphism is to attribute to the infinite Being the limits and forms of the infinitesimal beings". As such, anthropomorphism is somehow a mathematical error, infinite = zero. Yes, "the Divine Being voluntarily took upon Himself certain attributes and forms of those infinitesimal beings" but He never said "I am that specific being", rather "I am Who is" (Bible). An actor voluntarily takes upon himself certain attributes of many personages, but he is none of those personages.niwrad
July 14, 2014
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Acartia_bogart #15
...this OP is about the risk of anthropomorphism, yet your analogies, and everyone that I have seen from ID, are completely anthropometric. Everything is compared to human design.
That is not at all a contradiction. When we have to deal with a reality higher than our own, we are forced necessarily to use analogies, symbolisms, metaphors, comparisons taken from our world. In this sense we have for example to interpret the affirmation that "man is made in image of God". Here the error of anthropomorphism is to equate a symbolic representation with a photograph.niwrad
July 14, 2014
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velikovskys, Outside us, a sign of a rich designer is the prodigious varieties of forms and solutions in the living beings. Inside us, a sign of an unlimited knowledge designer is the indefinite creative potentiality of our mind. If the potentiality of the effect is so great, its Cause, which is necessarily higher and where such potentiality is actual, must be infinite.niwrad
July 14, 2014
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Acartia (#15) You said:
HekS, this OP is about the risk of anthropomorphism, yet your analogies, and everyone that I have seen from ID, are completely anthropometric. Everything is compared to human design.
I do not necessarily agree with everything said by the author of the OP. I was responding to your comments in post 9. What you said there was:
If ID posits an intelligent designer, and that the designer does not necessitate a god, then the origin of the non-god designer is an appropriate question. But if the designer must be god then ID is nothing but creationism.
I explained why the question of the origin of the designer is not vital to concluding that design has taken place, whether the designer was God or not. Furthermore, where ID would suggest that the Designer is God would be at the level of detecting design in the initial conditions of the universe itself, calling for a Designer that transcends our physical universe and therefore would seem to necessarily meet many of the attributes typically assigned to God. This is not "Creationism", which is a very particular literal reading of Genesis (and not the only literal one available). Rather, it is simply common sense and an inference to the best explanation. In your reply to me you seem to try to suggest that some comparison to human design is problematic, but you have not explained why. If we find evidence of design in nature that is analogous in many ways to the type of design work carried out by humans but we know that the design in nature could not have come from humans, what ought we to conclude? Are you trying to claim that an inference to design is logically impossible if the design could not have come from humans, which would therefore mean that it is logically impossible that there exists any intelligence other than or greater than human intelligence? What would happen if the Mars Rover suddenly stumbled upon a fully-functional, self-sustaining production plant on that planet that was producing technology unknown to humans? Would any reasonable person claim that it must be there by way of freak accident because even though it seems designed it couldn't be, because it couldn't have come from humans? Of course not. They would reasonably infer that it was the product of some alien intelligence. The SETI program would be satisfied that they had found signs of alien intelligent design on the basis of much less. Should we be barred from inferring the existence of extra terrestrials if we ever find convincing evidence of them until we know exactly who those aliens are and where they came from simply because the only intelligence we are intimately familiar with at the present time is human intelligence? Perhaps we should be barred from inferring the presence of subatomic particles we can't see, no matter what the evidence is for them, on the simple basis that we haven't seen them yet, and that things we haven't seen yet can't possibly exist. Is that what you're suggesting? HeKSHeKS
July 13, 2014
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Acartia_bogart: "HekS, this OP is about the risk of anthropomorphism, yet your analogies, and everyone that I have seen from ID, are completely anthropometric. Everything is compared to human design." Logical error, A_B. Nature contains designs that are strikingly like human designs (code separate from output, processor that parses the code in a generally linear fashion, etc.) To say, "hey, this stuff is like our stuff" is not anthropomorphising. A_B (9) "... if the designer must be god then ID is nothing but creationism." This implies creationism = error. If creationism is correct, then creationism is what should be concluded. However -- all design equations involving life on earth could conceivably be caused by a universe-centric designer (ie, alien, not necessarily god.) The design characteristics of the universe, however, by necessity require an extra-universal designer. The call of "this looks awfully like the g word" is not the fault of the IDer, it is the fault of the data. Show me a universe that doesn't appear designed, and I'll show you a universe that doesn't scream for a g.. hypothesis.Moose Dr
July 13, 2014
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niwrad:
At the very end, in its extreme generality, anthropomorphism is to attribute to the infinite Being the limits and forms of the infinitesimal beings. Therefore whoever IDer tries to assume a design worldview of the cosmos should avoid this error in all its forms, because the Great Designer of the universe is such unlimited Being. This way the design conception of the cosmos, and its Designer, can be defended from whoever equivocally uses the anthropomorphic pretest to badly deny the former and the latter.
Yet, the Divine Being voluntarily took upon Himself certain attributes and forms of those infinitesimal beings. Furthermore, the Divine Being specifically said man is made in His image (whether we view that as referring to physical image, per to the plain language, or (based on philosophical aversion to the foregoing) as an indirect reference to other attributes of the Divine Being). Additionally, an IDer who concludes that, say, life was designed need not even get into who the designer was. If the IDer does so, they certainly do so on the basis of their philosophical/religious viewpoint (not ID per se), and thus, it doesn't follow to say that they should, as a matter of principle, follow the approach you have outlined. Unless, of course, your point was simply to make a theological statement about what you personally think the Designer is like. In sum, you have written a post to counter the "error" of anthropomorphism. However, even if we accept your definition, it is not necessarily an "error." What you might say, instead of imposing a correction on this alleged "error" is rather that "ID does not necessarily imply or require anthropomorphism of the designer." That would be correct.Eric Anderson
July 13, 2014
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Arcatia, When you say: "Actually, yes. Or, more accurately, I would want proof of his claim that he was god. Just as I wouldn’t blindly accept the claim by a televangelist that god speaks directly to him." You have just contradicted yourself and made my point. It would no longer be necessary for you to know what created this God, simply that it was a God. So the burden of your acceptance of the reality of the situation simply becomes is the proof sufficient for you. Instead of saying one must know what made a designer to accept a designer, one simply needs proof of the designer. Everyone's level of proof is different. But your philosophy of who created the God is refuted.phoodoo
July 13, 2014
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The Darwinist crowd is not nearly as smart as they think they are. You don't have to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slower guy.velikovskys
July 13, 2014
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bogart:
Thank you for proving my point that the ID crowd think, erroneously, that they understand the motivations of people who disagree with them.
You're not fooling anybody. The Darwinist crowd is not nearly as smart as they think they are.Mapou
July 13, 2014
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"bogart, nobody’s stupid here. You’re here precisely because you got a chip on your shoulders. You have a beef against religion, especially fundamentalist Christianity." Thank you for proving my point that the ID crowd think, erroneously, that they understand the motivations of people who disagree with them.Acartia_bogart
July 13, 2014
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bogart, nobody's stupid here. You're here precisely because you got a chip on your shoulders. You have a beef against religion, especially fundamentalist Christianity.Mapou
July 13, 2014
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I am constantly amazed at how the ID crowd claim that they know my motivation and psyche. Maybe you have all missed your calling.Acartia_bogart
July 13, 2014
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Like so many atheists, A_b is terrified of where he knows I D points. Never mind that it's irrelevant to the question at issue.Axel
July 13, 2014
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HekS, this OP is about the risk of anthropomorphism, yet your analogies, and everyone that I have seen from ID, are completely anthropometric. Everything is compared to human design.Acartia_bogart
July 13, 2014
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Acartia (#9) You said:
Phoodoo, I don’t see how it is a pointless question. If ID posits an intelligent designer, and that the designer does not necessitate a god, then the origin of the non-god designer is an appropriate question. But if the designer must be god then ID is nothing but creationism.
Let's suppose for a second that the question "Who created God?" is not incoherent when properly understood. And, in fact, let's suppose the answer is "his parents" and they all live in some higher level universe above ours and are part of a race that evolved through some naturalistic process on a livable planet over the course of many millions of billions of years. The fact of the matter is that none of that would be remotely relevant to the issues considered by ID in our universe. If there is evidence in our universe that both it and the life within it were designed by some intelligent designer that transcends our own universe, then that is sufficient to conclude that such a designer exists, no matter how that designer came to exist. In order for an explanation to be considered best, you don't need to first be able to further explain that explanation, since that would result in the need for an infinite regress of explanations, preventing us from ever explaining anything. If you find a sculpture buried in the sand in the middle of the desert, you are warranted in concluding it had its source in an intelligent designer without first having to know what cultural group the designer belonged to or the specific identity of the individual who did the sculpting. You certainly would not need to first know who his or her parents were before you could conclude that the sculpture was the product of intelligence. However interesting those questions might be, they are quite obviously second order questions. The approach you seem to be advocating would be analogous to telling a police detective investigating a suspicious death that, in spite of all the evidence pointing to foul play, he or she cannot proceed with the investigation of the death as though it were a murder until first the murderer is identified, and until that point they must instead proceed as though it were an accident. This is obviously to get things exactly backwards, since different investigative techniques would be employed when dealing with a murder vs. an accident. Any police investigator who ignored large amounts of evidence pointing to murder and declared it an accident only because the identity and personal history and ancestry of the murderer had not yet been uncovered would be declared incompetent. What, then, are we to make of scientists, academics and random internet atheists who suggest we should ignore evidence of design in nature and label it a happy accident only because we can't yet say who the designer is or how he might have come about (if, indeed, he came about at all)? A murder remains a murder even if the murderer and his origins are never identified. Likewise, something that was designed remains designed even if the designer and his origins are never identified. If a bullet from a sniper rifle rips a hole through someone's heart, it doesn't get relabeled as an accident just because the physical evidence doesn't enable the investigators to identify the shooter and uncover his origins. Likewise, if there are aspects of the material universe that give evidence of having been designed by an intelligent agent, they cannot reasonably be relabeled as natural accidents just because that evidence does't reveal the specific identity and origin of the designer. Take care, HeKSHeKS
July 13, 2014
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niwrad, then indeed “unlimited knowledge and richness” are the properties of the transcendent Designer’s design. For example?velikovskys
July 13, 2014
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"If the God comes out of the clouds and says directly to you, he is the God, do you still need to confirm who created him?" Actually, yes. Or, more accurately, I would want proof of his claim that he was god. Just as I wouldn't blindly accept the claim by a televangelist that god speaks directly to him.Acartia_bogart
July 13, 2014
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Design in nature leads to the conclusion that there is a Designer. Who is the designer? Anthropomorphisms fail to provide sufficient description, yet he can be known. Do you know him? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnEdgw
July 13, 2014
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Arcatia, So what if it is a God? Why do we need to answer the question of its existence before we can make any conclusions about the world we see? If the God comes out of the clouds and says directly to you, he is the God, do you still need to confirm who created him?phoodoo
July 13, 2014
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