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The Lion Shall Lie Down with the Lamb

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Over at ATBC one of our brightest detractors Altabin (banned here, natch, because he’s just too smart for us) suggested an experiment. He misquoted the bible of course. It’s wolf and lamb or lion and calf. But we get his drift.

Quote
53. Were all the animals friendly to man before the Flood? Idea: raise several baby animals like snake and mouse together to see if they remain friends as they are older.

That one may not have such a happy ending. Next time try it with a lion and a lamb.

As it just so happens…

That’s my newest kitty, Liam, about 3 months old and 5 pounds at the top and Kiera, one of my shepherds, 13 months old and 65 pounds at the bottom. The photo was taken this week. Note that Liam is on his back with his belly exposed. In a dog that’s a submissive posture but in a cat it means “I feel safe here with you”.

Buddies

Not exactly a wolf and a lamb but not that much different either.

Comments
Jehu: LOL! A vegetarian lion. Strange stuff. That reminds me of the cartoon movie Madagascar, where a lion tries to resist his animal instinct to eat his best friend, a zebra. Obligate carnivores lack the "ability" to manufacture Taurine. So they need to get that from their diet. As I have said that sort of thing would be expected from random effects on a good design.Joseph
January 18, 2007
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Oh gosh, this is so easy today with information flow from around the world... Lion/Lamb... Little Tyke vegetarian in American history http://www.vegetarismus.ch/vegepet/tyke.htm Snake and hamster best friends in Japanese zoo... http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2006/01/and_the_snake_s.html Wolves? Canis Lupus? Heck, they can be bred to hunt themselves eventually... Irish Wolfhounds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Wolfhound as well as protect livestock for humans. Seeing as how dogs are descendents of C Lupus, SheepDawgies are a good example: 52 Breeds of sheep doggies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_dog Maybe evolutionist have never heard of German Shepherds??? Fearce creatures surprisingly bred for ding, ding, sheep herding, Doh! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd_Dog You'll find them listed as one of the 52 breeds. Here's a better test back at ya Darwinist. Why don't you do a fertility test with German Shepherds and Wolves. See if the pups are healthy and then raise them to protect sheep. That should be your answer in a reproductive manner of speaking. ;-) Although its already been done for thousands of years. If anyone wants to bet that wolves cannot be trained to protect sheep and in fact lie down with them, I'm sure Vegas will give odds on it. They take all suckers money. Course, I am just a layperson and may not understand evolution's finer technical points of illumination. Don't ya know... German Shepherd, God has a sense of humor? :)Michaels7
January 18, 2007
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[Off-Topic]: It would be interesting to see a discussion about the J. Scott Turner book highlighted on the "Additional Descent" column to the right.jb
January 18, 2007
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"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!" -Dr. Peter Venckman on signs of the apocalypsejimbo
January 18, 2007
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WinglesS, Carnivorous animals before the flood wouldn't contradict the biblical teaching. Most literal creationists, like myself, would argue that carnivores came after Adam sinned. So, from Adam's sin to the flood we could reason for the emergence (rapid even) of killer carnivores.JGuy
January 18, 2007
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LOL! A vegetarian lion. Strange stuff. That reminds me of the cartoon movie Madagascar, where a lion tries to resist his animal instinct to eat his best friend, a zebra.Jehu
January 18, 2007
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WinglesS: One would not expect nested hierarchy from Common Descent because we know that traits/ characteristics can be gained and lost, only to be regained. It is also quite possible that these animals "evolved" to become obligate, ie carvivores. To tribune7- I saw that show. A lioness was taking care of a baby oryx. That was too cool. We also have cleaner fish- gong in and out of the shark's mouth...Joseph
January 18, 2007
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It's possible that in the pre-flood days there were more types of vegetation that present day carnivores could feed on, instead of feeding on other animals. It's reasonable to assume that if the Biblical account were true many species of plant would have gone extinct. I think it's quite beyond our ability to know what the pre-flood days were like. All we know is that the history of human civilization extends to around 5000+ years ago, and many early myths include an account of a worldwide flood. Most of the post-flood biological remains probably turned into crude oil.WinglesS
January 18, 2007
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Ekstasis, Are you suggesting the God of the bible made lions originally to kill lambs - perhaps humans too? ..regardless, I can relate to metaphors too. And I have a distinct view that some of the metaphors in the bible are dual in nature - figurative AND literal. E.g. Abraham and Isaac are a literal account, but are a kind of likeness of God the Father and Jesus the Son.JGuy
January 18, 2007
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Ekstasis, I've never thought of it that way...of course it could simply be that everything will return to what it was before the fall...(coming from a Christian perspective)H.H.
January 18, 2007
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That was a lion and oryx as best buds.tribune7
January 18, 2007
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tribune7
January 18, 2007
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Ekstasis Boy do I look like a fool. I thought you were being critical of ID all this time. My apologies. :)a5b01zerobone
January 18, 2007
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I hope not to be excessively dogmatic to raise the possibility that the bible is not talking about literal lions and lambs. Rather, the Lion of Judah is Christ in his powerful reentry to our world, and the lamb was him as the past perfect sacrifice for our imperfections. Joined together, the perfect complements, just like DNA and RNA. You know, imperfections that our Darwinian friends always mention as some sort of proof that no intentional design exists. Of course, they never consider the glaring imperfections in their own pet theory.Ekstasis
January 18, 2007
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Lion hugs and kisses woman who rescued, raised and cared him: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6191061805731096039&q=lion+woman&hl=en 'Little Tyke'... a lioness... and a VEGETARIAN! :) http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i2/lion.asp There's a book on her too... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0835606058/veganfruitari-20JGuy
January 18, 2007
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