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A Tale of three marches . . .

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The Inauguration of Mr Trump as US President has led to a telling contrast of three marches:


The media have given splash coverage to the second march, and had to at least report on the first. Tellingly, predictably, the third — an annual march in defense of life — will receive little coverage, and that will be overwhelmingly hostile.

(Notice this street level video of the second march — and no I am not endorsing Mr Jones et al or agreeing with much of what he says. But, his interaction documents the mindset of the marchers all too tellingly. Forgive the coarse slang reference in the video’s title, it is a measure of where our civilisation has reached — yes, the kitty-ear knitted pink caps are a very loaded reference to media coverage that twisted Mr Trump’s crude locker-room talk on how money, fame and looks make seduction all too easy [though he actually gave an ‘exception’] into a narrative of assault on women . . . which is now being stretched into the slogans about ‘fascist’ undermining of women and the ‘right’ to abort our posterity — now clearly amounting to 800+ millions in 40+ years.  {Behold the power of loaded framing.])

[youtube YfuRA9GfBCA]

How have we come to such a sad pass as a civilisation, in which the ongoing holocaust at a rate of a million unborn children per week is twisted into a “right” and those who have challenged this are regarded as enemies next to the Nazis?

Behold the power of agitprop, driven by decades of a cultural marxist long march through the institutions, backed by the domination of evolutionary materialism and its radical relativisation of moral principles such that to many, might/manipulation makes ‘right’ and ‘truth,’ ‘rights,’ ‘justice’ and more. Yes, origins issues and the prevailing imposition of evolutionary materialist scientism have sobering consequences. Consequences that were long since predicted and which we would be well advised to ponder.

Behold, also, Plato’s grim warning from nearly 2360 years ago, in the aftermath of the collapse of Athenian democracy:


Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,350+ ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ –> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . .

[Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-

[ –> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by “winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . ” cf a video on Plato’s parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]

These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,

[ –> Evolutionary materialism — having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT — leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for “OUGHT” is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in “spin”) . . . ]

and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ –> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ –> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush — as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [–> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].

We need to soberly reflect on where we are heading, in light of the lessons posed by the collapse of Athenian Democracy, and many other grim chapters of history. END

PS: Some may wish to challenge the global abortion number I have estimated. Recently, the media have briefly reported the Guttmacher numbers on Abortion rates, which boil down to 50+ millions per year. (There are hints that has been so for at least two decades but never mind.) Apply a simple linear trend since the ’70’s and take off 20% to be even more conservative:

(50mn/y x 40 yrs x 1/2) x 0.8 = 800 mns

A number that you simply are not going to see in the media.

To sustain this horrific trend, we see distortion, manipulation and corruption of the media, medicine, law, law-making, law enforcement, government, education and more. Worse, through the imposition of mass guilt of blood, we see benumbing of consciences and a mass hysteria of trying to justify a march of ruinous folly that projects rage at those who stand athwart the rush over the cliff:

Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .
Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .

PPS — U/D Jan 24th: Anyone who has been monitoring the media will have observed the side-track debate on crowd sizes that has been getting wall to wall coverage. I commented on it in no. 20 below as an example of agit-prop shadow show tactics. Let me show a telling video clip that reveals how the Trump crowd (and to head off a talk-point, no, I think his spokespeople mis-spoke and overestimated their crowd . . . ) was dishonestly talked down by the media:

[youtube uvDC1Lk3RVg]

Why do I stress this, highlighting it as an example?

To underscore the Plato’s Cave shadow-show distraction, distortion and caricature, attack the man, polarise and poison the climate tactics that are being used. This, in a context where the central issue on the table should be the ongoing abortion holocaust mounting up from 800+ millions at the rate of a million more victims per WEEK.

Reminder, the parable of Plato’s Cave (which also applies to community manipulation agendas):

[youtube d2afuTvUzBQ]

Where also, it is worth our time to ponder my Straight vs Spin Grid for assessing news, media, education and views:


That torched car in Dc for the Trump inauguration? -- Lance Wallnau. This man has the right spiritual enemies: http://kairosfocus.blogspot.com/2017/01/matt-24-watch-301-that-torched-car-on.html kairosfocus
kairosfocus @37 The March for Life can be watched live on www.ewtn.com harry
F/N: Found 44th annual March for life 2017, livestream link: http://www.conservativedailynews.com/2017/01/livestream-march-for-life-2017-rally-washington-dc-01-27-2017-noon-et/ KF kairosfocus
PPS: Anybody at the march interested in making some live comments? Harry? Andrew? Others? Where is it going to be live streamed? kairosfocus
SA, I gather VP Pence -- a long time pro-life advocate -- will speak. Let's see what that does to coverage. But, given the harsh tone and pose I have been picking up, I expect hack jobs, snipping and sniping and the like. Underlying and driving all of that is a generation of blood guilt, an in progress global holocaust mounting at a million new victims per WEEK (on Guttmacher-UN figures), warped institutions and a narrative about rights and choice all the while the very first right . . . the one without which there can be no other rights . . . is being systematically violated. Life. KF PS: We need to expose and break the Plato's Cave shadow shows and expose the truth; but we must do so understanding that people (especially women) have been deliberately and systematically manipulated, deceived, indoctrinated, driven into over-wrought emotional states, polarised against the patent truth and right, misled, and are staring an awful evil and guilt in the face. Forgiveness by God's grace, help, realistic alternatives and hope for reform have to now be on the table. kairosfocus
KF - true. President Trump calls out mainstream media for failing to cover March for Life https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/trump-plugs-march-for-life-to-liberal-reporter-youre-gonna-have-a-large-cro "What they do say is that the press doesn’t cover them," Trump said. Silver Asiatic
SA, that disproportion, and that suppression of what is on the table, a global holocaust of 800+ millions and mounting up at a million per week, speaks volumes. KF kairosfocus
Harry, thanks. You have shared some very important thoughts, and I invite you to elaborate and point to useful resources. Most women caught up in this mesh are indeed victims also, misled by those they looked to for support and help in a challenging time of life. As for the value of a single human soul, I have been shaken to my roots by Jesus' remark that if one gains the world at the price of one's soul, one has made a grave loss. Any soul is that of a being of quasi-infinite worth. Which is why blood guilt is so awful, and it is why redemption is so precious and so hard-bought . . . and, it is why it can only be made available at no price. There are obviously many other strands in the trap our civilisation is in, but in my view, this was the pivotal one, as it deliberately spread blood guilt far and wide. But to those labouring under guilt, I hold up Paul, self-confessedly chief of sinners [and with serious blood guilt], who was knocked off his high horse, then told it was hard to kick against the pricks, then was called to serve and to suffer for the name of the One who redeemed him. KF kairosfocus
Good post, harry.
This is due in large part to the corrupt establishment media deliberately promulgating their media-manufactured bigotry ...
As you said, it's propaganda. The pro-abortion Women's March received 129 times more media coverage than the 2016 March for Life (1 hr, 25 m average for the WM, 35 seconds for the MFL). It's absurd and disgusting beyond imagination. Silver Asiatic
kairosfocus @30, I used to give Pro-Life talks at churches of various denominations. I would try to always point out that the women are victims, too, and that some post-abortive women become the best Pro-Life activists. As a result, I suppose, of my making clear that I was in no way intending to judge and condemn women who have had abortions, often post-abortive women would approach me afterwards and tell me their stories. The typical story usually contained the following elements: -- The women were lied to and/or coerced into getting the abortion. -- They were devastated by the abortion, some immediately, others after they learned the gruesome truth about abortion. -- Their self esteem went down the toilet and as a result they became very promiscuous and embraced a self-destructive lifestyle. -- They became suicidal, drenching their pillows with tears every night. -- Then they found Jesus through some loving Christian. He healed them, forgave them, restored their dignity and gave them an appreciation of how precious they are to God. They could live life again. They had become members of the Pro-Life movement (which was why they were at the talk) not only to save babies, but also because they didn't want other women to go through what they went through. This kind of testimony always warmed by heart. One couldn't help but believe, listening to these women, that Jesus lives on loving and healing those who turn to Him to this very day. What I always found disturbing though, was the thought of the millions of utterly devastated, post-abortive women who had not yet found Jesus. harry
F/N: I know the above is painful reading, especially for those whose hands are or may be stained. I think it important for us to face the truth. That truth is painful, horrific; justifying the conclusion that ours is one of the morally darkest ages ever. But that does not mean there is no hope, individually or for our civilisation. If we are willing to face our blood guilt, there is forgiveness, release and cleansing by God's grace . . . bought at the price of innocent blood. A community or a civilisation is a soul-less abstraction so it cannot find forgiveness as such. But, it can be reformed and renewed, laying down a marker of what it turns from and why. As once, we turned from slavery. This too, needs to be noted. Where, that is why sound history is a sacred duty and a sacred trust; bought at the price of blood and tears. But the price for genuine progress and reform remains as: first, we have to face painful truth. KF kairosfocus
Harry, important but largely forgotten history. History, with lessons paid for in blood. KF kairosfocus
These anti-life protestors need to do some homework. They can begin by finding out why murdering the child in the womb used to be against the law. Here are a few facts of which they appear to be ignorant: In the next few decades after the Civil War and the end of slavery in America, physicians lobbied state legislatures to enact statutes that reflected the intrinsic illegality of murdering the child in the womb. They informed the legislators that human life begins at conception and reminded them that killing the child in the womb was, of course, murder, and that the law should reflect that fact. This lobbying effort became known as the Physicians' Crusade Against Abortion led by Horatio Robinson Storer, M.D. And yes, even in the 19th century physicians knew human life began at conception. The physicians' crusade resulted in every state in the union enacting statutes that reflected the intrinsic illegality of taking the life of the child in the womb, statutes which had remained on the books for over a hundred years when the Supreme Court abruptly withdrew the protection of law from the child in the womb, and did so – utterly irrationally – a few decades after a push for the “legalization” of the murder of innocent humanity via abortion and euthanasia by the German intelligentsia had led to the atrocities of Nazi Germany. This push began long before anybody knew who Hitler was. When Hitler rose to power he simply took the principle established by the German elite that the state had the authority to “legalize” murder to its logical conclusion. The fact that, in America, the criminalization of the murder of the child in the womb took place shortly after the ending of slavery is significant. Americans -- having learned the hard way via the Civil War, the carnage of which was unprecedented -- now understood just how right and true the principles espoused in our Declaration of Independence really were. The primary purpose of government was to protect the inalienable rights to life and liberty of ALL humanity. Everybody. Blacks, babies and any and every human being. We were a finally a nation the laws of which reflected our noble founding principles. Roe vs. Wade treasonously and irrationally overthrew that American government and set us on the dangerous path Germany had already taken with catastrophic results. Some of the anti-life protestors are obviously incredibly ignorant and have been gravely misled. This is due in large part to the corrupt establishment media deliberately promulgating their media-manufactured bigotry the purpose of which is to dehumanize the child in the womb in the minds of the people, similar to the poisonous propaganda used by the Nazis. Such propaganda victimizes not only innocent babies, but also millions of women who are traumatized for life when the reality of what they were deceived into doing sinks in. harry
Eugen, I find it interesting that we had in effect a drive-by comment here; doubtless there is much more elsewhere. The issue remains on the table, a river of innocent blood on our hands and consciences as a civilisation. I find the Inauguration crowd size media frenzy revealing on refusal to face the central evil of our time. It also implicates a LOT of major media houses in an outright deception. For, there is simply no way that a half-empty mall will look like a crowd all the way back. The issue of rioting and beating up people also needs to be faced. There is a video out there of one guy blocked from going to work apparently exploding with his fists on the agit prop foot soldiers when -- from what I gather -- he was punched then again when he was spat on; an observation that points to a dangerous trend; patience is wearing thin. I think the activists underestimate the ordinary working man and his feelings; as happened with the vote Nov 8. And yes, all of this is agit prop, we are seeing street theatre for the media narrative, designed to feed a 4GW delegitimisation and polarisation strategy similar to what was done with Geo W Bush. As for the you are fascists and nazis, these folks need to understand that fascism and nazism were ideologies of the LEFT. As in, NSDAP = National Socialist German LABOUR Party. KF kairosfocus
Great post Kairos! I wonder if Bob @2 was just trolling? Funny story about the Women's march with silly hats, a group of ladies from my area (near Toronto) wanted to join the march. When they told the purpose of their travel to the border officer he denied them entrance to US. That made my day :D Eugen
AYP, very good questions. KF kairosfocus
For years I have asked the question "How can the taking the life of an innocent human being be Constitutional?" Consider: -- the target of the abortion is alive, as a distinct entity, from conception and has never been anything but alive. -- the target of the abortion is a human being and has never been anything else. He or she has never been a worm, a bird, a cabbage, a monkey, a fish or any other life form other than a human being. -- the target of the abortion, never having entered into the human society, is as innocent as can be imagined. -- the abortion does indeed take this life. Constitutionally: -- this life has been taken without "due process of law" as required by the US Constitution. -- the presumption of innocence, Constitutionally granted in criminal cases, is denied to the object of abortion. -- legal representation is denied to the object of abortion as is the right to confront the accuser. -- presentation of legal charges and a jury trial of peers is denied to the object of abortion. Again I ask "How can the taking the life of an innocent human being be Constitutional?" ayearningforpublius
F/N: An interesting discussion of Plato's Cave of manipulative, domineering shadow shows is here, notice the discussion of the shows from 16:10 on and particularly the order in which suggested manipulators come up. Astonishingly, media come up almost last. Echoes of the seven mountains of influence model beg to be discussed. KF kairosfocus
TWSYF & asauber -- I like the idea of a UD conference also. I hope someone will take up that idea and run with it. Silver Asiatic
Updated to address the Trump Inauguration crowd size sidetrack kairosfocus
F/N: Let us notice a distraction, side-track, polarisation game, complete with loading the phrase "alternative facts." 1: Notice, we had a riot on Inauguration day, including threats and acts of violence and roadblocks. Threats announced beforehand. 2: Notice, too the women's 'rights' 'anti-fascism' march the next day, which failed to deal squarely and truthfully with the ongoing 800+ million victim global abortion holocaust. (And no, "it's a woman's body" falls of its own weight -- half the time, the unborn child in the womb is a boy.) 3: There are also many cases of women around the world being denied their rights, with capital example no 1 being Asia Bibi now having spent seven years on death row on a false accusation of blasphemy against Islam, in Pakistan. There is a law there that positively invites such false accusations, and there are horrific cases of vigilantism. Multiply by the Yazidis as example number 2. The outrageous treatment of women and girls in Iran's courts and gaols is case no. 3. 4: Sadly, there are many more cases, too numerous to specifically mention. 5: Upcoming, on the 27th, will be the annual March for Life, which will showcase a significant number of relevant issues and cases, with emphasis falling on the American slice of the 800+ millions in the ongoing abortion holocaust. (This march of course, for years, has come in for media blackouts and if it does come up, it is to attack and undermine.) 6: Now, too, apparently in attempting to answer several cases of misreporting, Trump spokespeople mis-spoke and exaggerated crowd size at the Trump inauguration. (No, it is not plausible that Trump would exceed the 1.8 million who went to an Obama inauguration, for many reasons.) 7: So, what gets wall to wall media coverage and gets spread all over the Internet? A picture comparison by especially CNN that shows Obama with a crowd filling the Washington DC Mall, and Trump with a half-empty mall. 8: This will of course serve to further fix perceptions and polarisations. 9: Only, this is a particularly nasty piece of agitprop manipulative narrative. As this video shows (I append to the OP in a moment) when Mr Trump was actually being sworn in and speaking, the Mall is filled up, it is simply not half-empty. 10: It looks like the old trick of talking down crowd size by picking a time when Trump's crowd was still coming in was used by CNN et al. (Back in the sixties the anti-war movement made a big deal of using shadows to prove that a picture issued by officials to talk down their crowd size was taken at a time of day when the bulk of the crowd had left. Looks like the same trick is being played again.) ___________________ Why do I point this out? To show us the agitprop spin game in action, so we can turn away from Plato's Cave shadow show distraction, distortion and polarisation games and focus on the central evil of our time. The ongoing holocaust that is warping our civilisation, its institutions and our consciences even as a river of innocent blood cries out to the heavens. The evil that has us so twisted up we cannot think straight much less turn back from the brink of the cliff. For shame! KF PS: Think about what this blood-guilt driven warping is doing when the same people turn to matters of origins science, education and worldviews, as well as socio-cultural agendas. Including, the question of our being accountable before God for our thoughts, words and deeds in defiance of conscience, gospel, warrant for the gospel and the long since well-known teachings of scripture. (Is it any wonder that we will warp science, history [especially the history of Christendom], education, news, opinion coverage, law and its enforcement, courts, parliaments and cabinet deliberations etc. as well as the handling of sex, family, marriage, child- bearing/rearing and sexuality?) kairosfocus
I think a UD conference would be cool as well. If anyone wants to say hello at the March for Life, send me an email asauber[at]myway.com Andrew [ --> KF: Edited to ease chances of bots picking up and using email] asauber
How valuable is a single human life? On October 25th 2011 an American aid worker by the name of Jessica Buchanan was taken hostage by a group of Somali bandits. She had gone to Somali to educate innocent children who were being killed and maimed by the thousands of landmines which littered Somali’s war torn landscape. Now she was being held for ransom, out in the middle of the desert in one of the most impoverished and dangerous regions of the world, while the Danish charity she worked for tried in vain to negotiate her release. After a couple months of living in very harsh conditions and suffering from malnutrition she was able to pass on to her family that she had contracted a kidney infection. That news was not good. Without immediate medical care a kidney infection can quickly become life threatening. Then on January 25th 2012, exactly 3 months after she had been captured, things seemed to go from bad to worse. Jessica was awakened from her sleep by what she described as a scratching noise. Moments later the night erupted with violent gunfire. Jessica was sure that her captors were being attacked by a rival gang and that she would be killed as well. Then one of the gunmen spoke to her by name. At first she was confused. How did he know her name? And when he spoke to her it was with an American accent. Who were these men? She soon had an answer. “Jessica, we’re with the American military. We’re here to take you home…” Having been informed about Jessica’s declining medical condition, U.S. President Barack Obama, sent one of America’s most elite counter terrorist teams halfway around the world to rescue her. I have heard some conservatives comment about this and other rescues that Obama has ordered, “Oh any President would have done that.” Really? These kind of operations are very risky and as Jimmy Carter found out in 1980 they can easily end in disaster. It was a gutsy call and President Obama deserves full credit for making it. The final decision was his and his alone. Nevertheless, I do find it ironic (we could say hypocritical) that now former President Obama embraces a world view that devalues and trivializes the lives of the unborn. Aren’t they human too? I don’t see how he or anyone else is able to square that circle. Obviously, it is not only a moral contradiction but a logical one as well. PS If you have never heard of the rescue of Jessica Buchanan watch her 60 Minutes interview with CBS correspondent Scott Pelly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqMjK85tfc john_a_designer
Love the idea of a UD conference. Would like to meet the people behind the user names. Truth Will Set You Free
Admiration and thanks to those making the March and giving witness there. I have some friends attending, but I couldn't do it myself. It may be one of the biggest ever. I hope you guys get together there. Side note ... should someone create a UD conference here sometime? Get donations to fly KF in from the islands? Silver Asiatic
Excellent post, KF. My wife and I are going to the March For Life 2017 in DC as well. Would be interested in meeting some of you there. Truth Will Set You Free
BA77, good posts. Thank you. Dionisio
I will be at the March For Life 2017 in DC, pleading for those who have been deprived of their fundamental human rights by pro-abortion cowards. Andrew asauber
KF, Timely reminder and wake-up call. Thank you. This world is spiritually blind and lost. That's the pathetically sad reality we see all around. For many years I too was lost, but now I'm found. Was blind, but now I see. Amazing grace! Thank God for giving us the Way to get out of this evil mess for good. Unfortunately many chose to do it their own way. At the end of this Age of Grace every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Christ is Lord or lords. Hallelujah to the King of kings. Rev 22:21 (Ap. 22.21) Dionisio
In regards to atheistic materialism's failure to explain form, in the following article, Stephen L. Talbott asks a very simple, yet a very profound, question:
The Unbearable Wholeness of Beings - Stephen L. Talbott - 2010 Excerpt: Virtually the same collection of molecules exists in the canine cells during the moments immediately before and after death. But after the fateful transition no one will any longer think of genes as being regulated, nor will anyone refer to normal or proper chromosome functioning. No molecules will be said to guide other molecules to specific targets, and no molecules will be carrying signals, which is just as well because there will be no structures recognizing signals. Code, information, and communication, in their biological sense, will have disappeared from the scientist’s vocabulary. ,,, the question, rather, is why things don’t fall completely apart — as they do, in fact, at the moment of death. What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer? Despite the countless processes going on in the cell, and despite the fact that each process might be expected to “go its own way” according to the myriad factors impinging on it from all directions, the actual result is quite different. Rather than becoming progressively disordered in their mutual relations (as indeed happens after death, when the whole dissolves into separate fragments), the processes hold together in a larger unity. http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-unbearable-wholeness-of-beings
Although atheists have no clue “What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer?”, the Theist has always held that it is a 'soul' that is the unifying entity that is 'hold(ing) off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer?”,
Scientific evidence that we do indeed have an eternal soul (Elaboration on Talbott's question “What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer?”)– video 2016 https://youtu.be/h2P45Obl4lQ https://www.facebook.com/philip.cunningham.73/videos/vb.100000088262100/1116313858381546/?type=2&theater
Of related note, two pieces of evidence for long range quantum coherence in the body are as follows, “Quantum Entangled Consciousness” and 'instantaneous perception of sensory stimulus on the skin'
Quantum Entangled Consciousness - Life After Death - Stuart Hameroff - video (1:55 minute mark) https://youtu.be/jjpEc98o_Oo?t=118 The Puzzling Role Of Biophotons In The Brain - Dec. 17, 2010 Excerpt: It’s certainly true that electrical activity in the brain is synchronised over distances that cannot be easily explained. Electrical signals travel too slowly to do this job, so something else must be at work.,,, ,,, It’s a big jump to assume that photons do this job. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/422069/the-puzzling-role-of-biophotons-in-the-brain/ ,,, zero time lag neuronal synchrony despite long conduction delays - 2008 Excerpt: Multielectrode recordings have revealed zero time lag synchronization among remote cerebral cortical areas. However, the axonal conduction delays among such distant regions can amount to several tens of milliseconds. It is still unclear which mechanism is giving rise to isochronous discharge of widely distributed neurons, despite such latencies,,, Remarkably, synchrony of neuronal activity is not limited to short-range interactions within a cortical patch. Interareal synchronization across cortical regions including interhemispheric areas has been observed in several tasks (7, 9, 11–14).,,, Beyond its functional relevance, the zero time lag synchrony among such distant neuronal ensembles must be established by mechanisms that are able to compensate for the delays involved in the neuronal communication. Latencies in conducting nerve impulses down axonal processes can amount to delays of several tens of milliseconds between the generation of a spike in a presynaptic cell and the elicitation of a postsynaptic potential (16). The question is how, despite such temporal delays, the reciprocal interactions between two brain regions can lead to the associated neural populations to fire in unison (i.e. zero time lag).,,, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2575223/ Do Perceptions Happen in Your Brain? - Michael Egnor - December 1, 2015 Excerpt: The sensory experiments of Benjamin Libet, a neuroscientist at U.C. San Francisco in the mid 20th century, demonstrated that a subject perceives a sensory stimulus on the skin at the moment the skin is touched, before the stimulus reaches the brain and before full deliberative consciousness occurs. Libet was flabbergasted by this result,,," http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/12/do_perceptions101261.html
Verses and Music:
Mark 8:37 Is anything worth more than your soul? Psalm 139:14-16 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. Chrisette Michele and Travis Greene perform "Intentional" live Donald Trump's Inaugural Ball 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU61Jdp80Z8
These following examples are also particularly good for demonstrating how 'form' is simply not reducible to any material particulars within the body that Darwinists may appeal to:
DNA doesn’t even tell teeth what they should look like - April 3, 2014 Excerpt: A friend writes to mention a mouse experiment where developing tooth buds were moved so that the incisors and the molars were switched. The tooth buds became the tooth appropriate to the switched location, not the original one, in direct contrast to what we would expect from a gene’centric view. https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/intelligent-design/dna-doesnt-even-tell-teeth-what-they-should-look-like/ If DNA really rules (morphology), why did THIS happen? - April 2014 Excerpt: Researchers implanted human embryonic neuronal cells into a mouse embryo. Mouse and human neurons have distinct morphologies (shapes). Because the human neurons feature human DNA, they should be easy to identify. Which raises a question: Would the human neurons implanted in developing mouse brain have a mouse or a human morphology? Well, the answer is, the human neurons had a mouse morphology. They could be distinguished from the mouse ones only by their human genetic markers. If DNA really ruled, we would expect a human morphology. https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/intelligent-design/if-dna-really-rules-why-did-this-happen/ What Do Organisms Mean? Stephen L. Talbott - Winter 2011 Excerpt: Harvard biologist Richard Lewontin once described how you can excise the developing limb bud from an amphibian embryo, shake the cells loose from each other, allow them to reaggregate into a random lump, and then replace the lump in the embryo. A normal leg develops. Somehow the form of the limb as a whole is the ruling factor, redefining the parts according to the larger pattern. Lewontin went on to remark: "Unlike a machine whose totality is created by the juxtaposition of bits and pieces with different functions and properties, the bits and pieces of a developing organism seem to come into existence as a consequence of their spatial position at critical moments in the embryo’s development. Such an object is less like a machine than it is like a language whose elements... take unique meaning from their context.[3]",,, http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/what-do-organisms-mean "Last year I had a fair chunk of my nose removed in skin cancer surgery (Mohs). The surgeon took flesh from a nearby area to fill in the large hole he’d made. The pictures of it were scary. But in the healing process the replanted cells somehow ‘knew’ how to take a different shape appropriate for the new location so that the nose now looks remarkably natural. The doctor said he could take only half the credit because the cells somehow know how to change form for a different location (though they presumably still follow the same DNA code) . — I’m getting the feeling that we’ve been nearly as reductionist in the 20-21st century as Darwin and his peers were when they viewed cells as little blobs of jelly." leodp - UD blogger
This failure of Darwinists to explain 'form' occurs at a very low level too. That is to say, although Darwinists have no clue how a particular organism may achieve its final 'form', this failure of Darwinists to explain form occurs at the very low level of proteins and DNA too. First off, there are now found to be a large percentage of "intrinsically disordered proteins," or IDPs.
Biology's Quiet Revolution - Jonathan Wells - September 8, 2014 Excerpt: In 1996, biologists discovered a protein that does not fold into a unique shape but can assume different shapes when it interacts with other molecules. Since then, many such proteins have been found; they are called "intrinsically disordered proteins," or IDPs. IDPs are surprisingly common, and their disordered regions play important functional roles.,,, So it is not true that biologists know all the basic features of living cells and are merely filling in the details. Nor is it true that Darwinian evolution is a settled scientific "fact," as its defenders claim. Huge unanswered questions remain, and they will only be answered by going beyond the discredited myth that "DNA makes RNA makes protein makes us." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/09/biologys_quiet_089651.html podcast - Dr. Jonathan Wells: Biology’s Quiet Revolution - September 17, 2014 "We are talking about 1/3 of the proteins in our body, (could be Intrinsically Disordered Proteins)" - Jonathan Wells http://www.discovery.org/multimedia/audio/idtf/2014/09/dr-jonathan-wells-biologys-quiet-revolution/
Secondly, protein folding is now found to belong to the world of quantum mechanics and not to belong to the world of classical mechanics as was, and is, presupposed in Darwinian thought
Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011 Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way. Excerpt: First, a little background on protein folding. Proteins are long chains of amino acids that become biologically active only when they fold into specific, highly complex shapes. The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from. To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,, Today, Luo and Lo say these curves can be easily explained if the process of folding is a quantum affair. By conventional thinking, a chain of amino acids can only change from one shape to another by mechanically passing though various shapes in between. But Luo and Lo say that if this process were a quantum one, the shape could change by quantum transition, meaning that the protein could ‘jump’ from one shape to another without necessarily forming the shapes in between.,,, Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins. That's a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo's equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/423087/physicists-discover-quantum-law-of-protein/
As well, DNA itself is also found to belong to the world of quantum mechanics and not to belong to the world of classical mechanics as was, and is, presupposed in Darwinian thought
Quantum entanglement holds together life’s blueprint – 2010 Excerpt: When the researchers analysed the DNA without its helical structure, they found that the electron clouds were not entangled. But when they incorporated DNA’s helical structure into the model, they saw that the electron clouds of each base pair became entangled with those of its neighbours. “If you didn’t have entanglement, then DNA would have a simple flat structure, and you would never get the twist that seems to be important to the functioning of DNA,” says team member Vlatko Vedral of the University of Oxford. http://neshealthblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/quantum-entanglement-holds-together-lifes-blueprint/ Does DNA Have Telepathic Properties?-A Galaxy Insight – 2009 Excerpt: DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn’t be able to.,,, The recognition of similar sequences in DNA’s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/09/the-dna-mystery-scientists-baffled-by-telepathic-abilities.html "What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state." Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it) https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176
Simply put, personhood, or 'real people' as Bob put it, can only be grounded within Theism, particularly within the transcendent unifying 'soul' that Theism postulates for the material body
“You don’t have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.” - George MacDonald - Annals of a Quiet Neighborhood - 1892 Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;,,
The unifying concept of 'Personhood' for the material body simply finds no place for grounding within atheistic materialism: Although some people may assume that the process by which a a single cell is transformed into a fully grown human body, of approx 100 trillion cells, is well understood scientifically, the following expert disagrees. He holds that embryogenesis, i.e. that transformation of one cell into the trillions of cells that comprise the human body is, as he puts it, "It's a Mystery, It's Magic, It's Divinity",,,
"It's a Mystery, It's Magic, It's Divinity" - Casey Luskin - March 22, 2012 - (with video) Excerpt: "The magic of the mechanisms inside each genetic structure saying exactly where that nerve cell should go, the complexity of these, the mathematical models on how these things are indeed done, are beyond human comprehension. Even though I am a mathematician, I look at this with the marvel of how do these instruction sets not make these mistakes as they build what is us. It's a mystery, it's magic, it's divinity." - Alexander Tsiaras http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/03/mathematician_a057741.html
The following leading researcher admits much the same point and states that it is not known how "an organism maintains its biological status quo".
Biology faces a quantum leap into the incomprehensible - 2010 Excerpt: Understanding how the different parts of the body process information and then distribute it is the next task facing modern biology, says Sir Paul Nurse,,, How does homeostasis – the mechanism by which an organism maintains its biological status quo – work? And how do cells communicate with each other? Understanding these networks will reveal "a strange, counterintuitive world", insists Nurse, Sir Paul Nurse won the 2001 Nobel prize for physiology for his work on the role of DNA in cell division and took up the presidency of the Royal Society at the end of 2010. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2010/nov/12/biology-quantum-leap
Moreover, although Darwinists have not demonstrated the origin of a single protein molecule by unguided Darwinian processes,,,
Conversations with Douglas Axe: What is the Search Problem? (10^40 cells that have existed on earth, 1 in 10^74 chance for finding a functional protein fold) https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLR8eQzfCOiS3-MQT4SEaLNloU5v2poZKf&v=qwFi_2YZa_c
Although Darwinists have not demonstrated the origin of a single protein molecule by unguided Darwinian processes, even if Darwinists could explain the origin of new proteins by unguided Darwinian processes, that still would not go one micro-meter towards explaining how the approx. billion-trillion protein molecules of the human body know how and when to do the things they do in their part in keeping the human body alive. The following article gives us small glimpse of the huge 'elephant in the living room' problem that is never honestly addressed by most Internet atheists or Darwinists in general:
HOW BIOLOGISTS LOST SIGHT OF THE MEANING OF LIFE — AND ARE NOW STARING IT IN THE FACE - Stephen L. Talbott - May 2012 Excerpt: “If you think air traffic controllers have a tough job guiding planes into major airports or across a crowded continental airspace, consider the challenge facing a human cell trying to position its proteins”. A given cell, he notes, may make more than 10,000 different proteins, and typically contains more than a billion protein molecules at any one time. “Somehow a cell must get all its proteins to their correct destinations — and equally important, keep these molecules out of the wrong places”. And further: “It’s almost as if every mRNA [an intermediate between a gene and a corresponding protein] coming out of the nucleus knows where it’s going” (Travis 2011),,, Further, the billion protein molecules in a cell are virtually all capable of interacting with each other to one degree or another; they are subject to getting misfolded or “all balled up with one another”; they are critically modified through the attachment or detachment of molecular subunits, often in rapid order and with immediate implications for changing function; they can wind up inside large-capacity “transport vehicles” headed in any number of directions; they can be sidetracked by diverse processes of degradation and recycling... and so on without end. Yet the coherence of the whole is maintained. The question is indeed, then, “How does the organism meaningfully dispose of all its molecules, getting them to the right places and into the right interactions?” The same sort of question can be asked of cells, for example in the growing embryo, where literal streams of cells are flowing to their appointed places, differentiating themselves into different types as they go, and adjusting themselves to all sorts of unpredictable perturbations — even to the degree of responding appropriately when a lab technician excises a clump of them from one location in a young embryo and puts them in another, where they may proceed to adapt themselves in an entirely different and proper way to the new environment. It is hard to quibble with the immediate impression that form (which is more idea-like than thing-like) is primary, and the material particulars subsidiary. Two systems biologists, one from the Max Delbrück Center for Molecular Medicine in Germany and one from Harvard Medical School, frame one part of the problem this way: "The human body is formed by trillions of individual cells. These cells work together with remarkable precision, first forming an adult organism out of a single fertilized egg, and then keeping the organism alive and functional for decades. To achieve this precision, one would assume that each individual cell reacts in a reliable, reproducible way to a given input, faithfully executing the required task. However, a growing number of studies investigating cellular processes on the level of single cells revealed large heterogeneity even among genetically identical cells of the same cell type. (Loewer and Lahav 2011)",,, And then we hear that all this meaningful activity is, somehow, meaningless or a product of meaninglessness. This, I believe, is the real issue troubling the majority of the American populace when they are asked about their belief in evolution. They see one thing and then are told, more or less directly, that they are really seeing its denial. Yet no one has ever explained to them how you get meaning from meaninglessness — a difficult enough task once you realize that we cannot articulate any knowledge of the world at all except in the language of meaning.,,, http://www.netfuture.org/2012/May1012_184.html#2
Simply put, the 'form' that any particular organism may take simply is not reducible to any material particulars. "Form" is not even, to the consternation of Darwinists, reducible to DNA as Darwinists hold in the 'central dogma' of the modern synthesis which holds that "DNA makes RNA makes protein makes us."
Response to John Wise - October 2010 Excerpt: A technique called "saturation mutagenesis"1,2 has been used to produce every possible developmental mutation in fruit flies (Drosophila melanogaster),3,4,5 roundworms (Caenorhabditis elegans),6,7 and zebrafish (Danio rerio),8,9,10 and the same technique is now being applied to mice (Mus musculus).11,12 None of the evidence from these and numerous other studies of developmental mutations supports the neo-Darwinian dogma that DNA mutations can lead to new organs or body plans--because none of the observed developmental mutations benefit the organism. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/10/response_to_john_wise038811.html
In fact, Dr. Jonathan Wells observes that it is now shown that, completely contrary to Darwinian thought, " It's the organism controlling the DNA, not the DNA controlling the organism."
Ask an Embryologist: Genomic Mosaicism - Jonathan Wells - February 23, 2015 Excerpt: humans have a "few thousand" different cell types. Here is my simple question: Does the DNA sequence in one cell type differ from the sequence in another cell type in the same person?,,, The simple answer is: We now know that there is considerable variation in DNA sequences among tissues, and even among cells in the same tissue. It's called genomic mosaicism. In the early days of developmental genetics, some people thought that parts of the embryo became different from each other because they acquired different pieces of the DNA from the fertilized egg. That theory was abandoned,,, ,,,(then) "genomic equivalence" -- the idea that all the cells of an organism (with a few exceptions, such as cells of the immune system) contain the same DNA -- became the accepted view. I taught genomic equivalence for many years. A few years ago, however, everything changed. With the development of more sophisticated techniques and the sampling of more tissues and cells, it became clear that genetic mosaicism is common. I now know as an embryologist,,,Tissues and cells, as they differentiate, modify their DNA to suit their needs. It's the organism controlling the DNA, not the DNA controlling the organism. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/02/ask_an_embryolo093851.html
Here are two examples that get Dr. Wells's point across fairly dramatically:
Extreme Genome Repair - 2009 Excerpt: If its naming had followed, rather than preceded, molecular analyses of its DNA, the extremophile bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans might have been called Lazarus. After shattering of its 3.2 Mb genome into 20–30 kb pieces by desiccation or a high dose of ionizing radiation, D. radiodurans miraculously reassembles its genome such that only 3 hr later fully reconstituted nonrearranged chromosomes are present, and the cells carry on, alive as normal.,,, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319128/ In the lab, scientists coax E. coli to resist radiation damage - March 17, 2014 Excerpt: ,,, John R. Battista, a professor of biological sciences at Louisiana State University, showed that E. coli could evolve to resist ionizing radiation by exposing cultures of the bacterium to the highly radioactive isotope cobalt-60. "We blasted the cultures until 99 percent of the bacteria were dead. Then we'd grow up the survivors and blast them again. We did that twenty times," explains Cox. The result were E. coli capable of enduring as much as four orders of magnitude more ionizing radiation, making them similar to Deinococcus radiodurans, a desert-dwelling bacterium found in the 1950s to be remarkably resistant to radiation. That bacterium is capable of surviving more than one thousand times the radiation dose that would kill a human. http://www.news.wisc.edu/22641
Bob O'H, who just so happens to already be out of the womb and not to be an unborn baby, claims that the present day 'holocaust' of abortion is okay with him personally since it involves 'real people',,,
"Perhaps because this “holocaust” involves women – real people – and surely they have rights too? Like the right to have control over their bodies?"
Yet despite the fact that Bob O'H apparently believes women are 'real people' and unborn babies are somehow not 'real people', the fact of the matter is that according to the philosophy of atheistic materialism, which underpins Darwinian thought, there are no 'real people'. According to the atheistic materialism of Darwinian evolution, that Bob O’H himself believes in, women are not real people. Babies are not real people, Bob O’H himself is not a 'real person'. According to atheistic materialism, there are just randomly colliding particles which just so happen to be in the configuration of what we artificially term to be a person. In atheistic materialism, the concept of 'real persons' is a illusion. As Origenes eloquently summed it up in his post yesterday:
,,, Similarly a human being, made from fermions and bosons, may present itself to us as one indivisible thing with its own intentions, but in fact there is nothing over and beyond fermions and bosons which care about neither human beings nor their intentions. The illusion of an intentional personal human being is produced by unintentional impersonal fermions and bosons. To be clear, from a materialistic view point, wrt a human being, there is no person and there are no intentions. Origenes https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/intelligent-design/the-inane-beliefs-of-atheistsmaterialists/#comment-624070
As well, Dr. Dennis Bonnette shows, at 37:51 minute mark of following video, that according to the law of identity, Richard Dawkins does not exist as a 'real person':
Atheistic Materialism – Does Richard Dawkins Exist? – video 37:51 minute mark Quote: "It turns out that if every part of you, down to sub-atomic parts, are still what they were when they weren't in you, in other words every ion,,, every single atom that was in the universe,, that has now become part of your living body, is still what is was originally. It hasn't undergone what metaphysicians call a 'substantial change'. So you aren't Richard Dawkins. You are just carbon and neon and sulfur and oxygen and all these individual atoms still. You can spout a philosophy that says scientific materialism, but there aren't any scientific materialists to pronounce it.,,, That's why I think they find it kind of embarrassing to talk that way. Nobody wants to stand up there and say, "You know, I'm not really here". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVCnzq2yTCg&t=37m51s
In the following debate and article, Dawkins's himself agrees with Dr. Dennis Bonnette assessment that he is not a 'real person' but is merely an illusion:
At the 23:33 minute mark of the following debate, Richard Dawkins agrees with materialistic philosophers who say that: "consciousness is an illusion" A few minutes later Rowan Williams asks Dawkins ”If consciousness is an illusion… what isn’t?”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWN4cfh1Fac&t=22m57s Who wrote Richard Dawkins’s new book? – October 28, 2006 Excerpt: Dawkins: What I do know is that what it feels like to me, and I think to all of us, we don't feel determined. We feel like blaming people for what they do or giving people the credit for what they do. We feel like admiring people for what they do.,,, Manzari: But do you personally see that as an inconsistency in your views? Dawkins: I sort of do. Yes. But it is an inconsistency that we sort of have to live with otherwise life would be intolerable. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/10/who_wrote_richard_dawkinss_new002783.html
But you don't have to take Dawkins's, Dr. Dennis Bonnette's, Origenes's, or my word for it, here are many other leading atheists admitting that, according to the premises atheistic materialism which they adamantly believe to be true, 'real people' are illusions.
“I’m not arguing that consciousness is a reality beyond science or beyond the brain or that it floats free of the brain at death. I’m not making any spooky claims about its metaphysics. What I am saying, however, is that the self is an illusion. The sense of being an ego, an I, a thinker of thoughts in addition to the thoughts. An experiencer in addition to the experience. The sense that we all have of riding around inside our heads as a kind of a passenger in the vehicle of the body. That’s where most people start when they think about any of these questions. Most people don’t feel identical to their bodies. They feel like they have bodies. They feel like they’re inside the body. And most people feel like they’re inside their heads. Now that sense of being a subject, a locus of consciousness inside the head is an illusion. It makes no neuro-anatomical sense.” Sam Harris: The Self is an Illusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fajfkO_X0l0 Eagleton on Baggini on free will Excerpt: "What you’re doing is simply instantiating a self: the program run by your neurons which you feel is “you.”" Jerry Coyne https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/04/04/eagleton-on-baggini-on-free-will/ "The neural circuits in our brain manage the beautifully coordinated and smoothly appropriate behavior of our body. They also produce the entrancing introspective illusion that thoughts really are about stuff in the world. This powerful illusion has been with humanity since language kicked in, as we’ll see. It is the source of at least two other profound myths: that we have purposes that give our actions and lives meaning and that there is a person “in there” steering the body, so to speak." [A.Rosenberg, The Atheist's Guide To Reality, Ch.9] “(Daniel) Dennett concludes, ‘nobody is conscious … we are all zombies’.” J.W. SCHOOLER & C.A. SCHREIBER - Experience, Meta-consciousness, and the Paradox of Introspection - 2004 https://www.scribd.com/document/183053947/Experience-Meta-consciousness-and-the-Paradox-of-Introspection "that “You”, your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll’s Alice might have phrased: “You’re nothing but a pack of neurons.” This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.” Francis Crick - "The Astonishing Hypothesis" 1994 “We have so much confidence in our materialist assumptions (which are assumptions, not facts) that something like free will is denied in principle. Maybe it doesn’t exist, but I don’t really know that. Either way, it doesn’t matter because if free will and consciousness are just an illusion, they are the most seamless illusions ever created. Film maker James Cameron wishes he had special effects that good.” Matthew D. Lieberman – neuroscientist – materialist – UCLA professor
Of related note, there is a long history of atrocities being committed by societies against certain people groups within those societies. People groups which those societies had 'legally' deemed to be 'non-persons'
8 Horrific Times People Groups Were Denied Their Humanity - July 02, 2014 Excerpt: According to Ernst Fraenkel, a German legal scholar, the Reichsgericht, the highest court in Germany, was instrumental in depriving Jewish people of their legal rights. In a 1936 Supreme Court decision, “the Reichsgericht refused to recognize Jews living in Germany as persons in the legal sense.” Nazis described Jews as Untermenschen, or subhumans to justify exterminating them. http://www.personhood.com/8_horrific_times_people_groups_were_denied_their_humanity
And indeed, in present day America unborn children, the most vulnerable of people in our society, are presently denied the legal status of personhood,,
Unborn children as constitutional persons. - 2010 Excerpt: In Roe v. Wade, the state of Texas argued that "the fetus is a 'person' within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment." To which Justice Harry Blackmun responded, "If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case, of course, collapses, for the fetus' right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment." However, Justice Blackmun then came to the conclusion "that the word 'person,' as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn." In this article, it is argued that unborn children are indeed "persons" within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth and Fifth Amendments. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20443281
My question to Bob O'H and his fellow atheistic materialists is this, "Since, under the law, you are only guaranteed the right to life if you are legally considered a 'real person', and since atheistic materialists themselves deny that they are 'real people', ought it to be legal in America to kill Atheists since they are, by their own admission, 'non-persons? If not, why not?" bornagain77
F/N: On Agit prop. this often looks at abuse of arts and literature for propaganda purposes. What is not so readily seen is when the media can become complicit, the use of marches and rioting becomes street theatre spinning out a narrative that is then used to drive discussion and shape opinions and views. This even extends to the court room or parliament, especially when false narratives are used to shape law and its enforcement. Plato long ago pointed out, through his parable of the cave, how a whole community's life, ideology, sense of its identity and past etc, can be twisted into a cynical shadow-show . . . agitprop culture. KF kairosfocus
BOH at 2
Perhaps because this “holocaust” involves women – real people – and surely they have rights too? Like the right to have control over their bodies?
Shouldn't someone tell these women that they not only have the right to take control over their own bodies, they have the obligation to take control over their own bodies and not get pregnant unless they want a child. Because as soon as they become pregnant, they are responsible for two lives. Someone should make the father aware of this as well. But, alas, as long as we have laws based on the (obviously false) belief (based on fake science) that we are all here because of sheer dumb luck, I guess this won't ever change. awstar
Very good post, KF. The dehumanizing of children - the most vulnerable and defenseless is a predictable outcome of evolutionary nihilism. The March for Life will bring many women (very many are quite young) to Washington, whereas the Women's March was meant to display a solidarity, while ignoring or rejecting the many women who oppose abortion. That's the propaganda at work where people claim to speak for "women" -- but that really means only for those women who support legal abortion. Violence from the radical left is also a predictable outcome. Silver Asiatic
Bob O`H - Bob its not their own bodies, as I have not yet seen a women and her close friends and relatives upset when she has had her tonsils removed or her appendics out, but when the same women has a miscarriage at 20 weeks why then the upset and sadness , because she has just lost her child. Also the hypocrisy of the position of those who want unlimited abortion rights, who accuse Christians of being sexist, homophobic, racist, but want to allow women to abort their children for any reason they chose, be the child be female, or if a Caucasian woman has slept with an African man but does not want a mixed race child ,or if science ever discovers the so called gay gene, women can abort their child because it will be gay.So tell me who are the sexists, homophobic, racists who murder their children for any bigoted , selfish reason they choose. Marfin
BO'H: there is not and cannot ever be a 'right' to shed innocent blood. I suggest to you that you ponder how you and many others have come to the benumbed point where you de-humanise our posterity in the womb to the point where you imagine there is a 'right' to shed their innocent blood. For just one instance, half the time the unborn child in the womb is not even the same sex as his mother -- the "their own bodies" talking point is agitprop rubbish. For shame! Wake up, man! KF PS: Here is the woe spoken against such a sick civilisation as ours:
Isa 5:18 Woe (judgment is coming) to those who drag along wickedness with cords of falsehood, And sin as if with cart ropes [towing their own punishment]; 19 Who say, “Let Him move speedily, let Him expedite His work [His promised vengeance], so that we may see it; And let the purpose of the Holy One of Israel approach And come to pass, so that we may know it!” 20 Woe (judgment is coming) to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe (judgment is coming) to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever and shrewd in their own sight! 22 Woe (judgment is coming) to those who are heroes at drinking wine And men of strength in mixing intoxicating drinks, 23 Who justify the wicked and acquit the guilty for a bribe, And take away the rights of those who are in the right! 24 Therefore, as the tongue of fire consumes the stubble [from straw] And the dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away like fine dust; Because they have rejected the law of the Lord of hosts And despised and discarded the word of the Holy One of Israel. [AMP]
How have we come to such a sad pass as a civilisation, in which the ongoing holocaust at a rate of a million unborn children per week is twisted into a “right” and those who have challenged this are regarded as enemies next to the Nazis?
Perhaps because this "holocaust" involves women - real people - and surely they have rights too? Like the right to have control over their bodies? Bob O'H
On implications of burning limos and "kitty-ear" knitted cap marches vs the upcoming annual march for life. kairosfocus

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