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Is the USA going over the edge as we speak?

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Scott Adams, American cartoonist and commenter on events with a particular view to persuasion and narrative dominance seems to agree. Transcript of key comments:

I think I’ve been telling you for some time the obvious way that these protests/riots/looting episodes were going to go. There was only one way that these would go under the assumption that the police would not get more aggressive and that the local government would not let the federal government come in and take care of the violent stuff. There was going to be no adult supervision and that was intentional. The local leadership decided to not have any adult leadership during the protests/riots/looting. So it was obvious that the locals would end up arming themselves because what else would happen? Could you think of any other outcome? It was obvious this would be the outcome. And this is just the beginning, not just a one-off. It’s pretty obvious that more militia or more citizens are going to bring heavier arms…and they’re going to start showing up…. There’s probably no way it’s going to stop.

The worst case scenario is if the protesters [–> further?] arm themselves…ultimately this is the way it had to go. I feel bad for anyone who gets hurt and I don’t encourage any violence but as a prediction this was the way it had to go. It will end, but with more of this.

Sobering, and familiar.

Regulars at UD will know that I have long been very concerned about a kinetic escalation/spiral in an ongoing 4th generation culture revolution style, Red Guards driven civil war in the USA, geostrategic centre of gravity of our civilisation. Events over the past few days in Wisconsin (U/D: additional, here also see background here with here, here & here, contrasting what is not seen here) underscore that concern, to the level of juggernaut– out- of- control. (The first just linked seems to be at least a good point of reference for thought on a very regrettable but all too predictable event; the second gives background on the metaphor.)

Let me hark back for a moment to my 2016 global geostrategic framework shared here at UD (after public presentations here in the Caribbean):

That is deep backdrop, as we ponder where our civilisation is in the case of the lynch-pin state, the USA.

What happens to the US over the next six to eighteen months is fraught with global consequences that the general populace is at best dimly aware of; but, bet your last cent that movers and shakers behind the scenes have these considerations (from whatever perspective) in mind.

Now, too, for twenty years, I have often used a representation of sustainability-oriented strategic decision-making tracing to/adapted from the Bariloche Foundation of Argentina, set in the context of Environment Scanning and SWOT analysis:

(This is of course precisely the decision theory model which has led me to point to a serious ethics-epistemology breakdown in managing the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and how treatments are evaluated.)

Further to such, there is a more stringent version, in effect the challenge of the juggernaut i/l/o Machiavelli’s hectic fever model of political disorders:

Warning-signs, there have been in abundance, complete with many blood-dripping lessons of history. However, in a deeply polarised polity, building critical mass . . . “consensus” is implausible and half-measure compromises will predictably be built-to-fail . . . in good time to avert going over the cliff is hard, hard, hard. Such, is the nature of problematiques.

Perhaps, the problem can be recast instructively in terms of the dilemmas implicit in the Overton Window:

What happens when the acceptable limit imposed by dominant factions and their narratives locks out good solutions? What would shift the window?

The answer comes back, pain; pain and shattering from going over the cliff.

Or, if we are lucky, enough see the signs in time to act as a critical mass towards sound change before the cliff-edge collapses underfoot.

History, however, is not on the side of prudent foresight, and the history of radical revolutions has been particularly bloody and predictably futile. Never mind the pipe dreams sold by tenured profs and promoted by pundits and community organisers. As just a warning, let us compare a fools-cap image from the 1966 Mao-backed Red Guards:

. . . and a notorious recent incident in Washington DC:

. . . not forgetting the tragedy of the man who refused to salute in 1930’s in a Germany ruled by the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (and yes, contrary to the dominant narrative, they meant the “Socialist” part and the “Worker’s” part):

We need to pause and think again, I am somehow unable to take it for granted that we cannot turn back, even at the brink. Maybe, I am being irrationally hopeful for reprieve; but, let us at least ponder a case from an often overlooked classical report:

Ac 19:23 . . . [c. AD 57] there arose no little disturbance [in Ephesus] concerning the Way.

24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen.

25 These he gathered together, with the workmen in similar trades, and said [–> behind the scenes manipulative plotting], “Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth. 26 And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus but in almost all of Asia this Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people, saying that gods made with hands are not gods. 27 And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis may be counted as nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship.”

28 When they heard this they were enraged and were crying out, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”

29 So the city was filled with the confusion, and they rushed together into the theater, dragging with them Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians who were Paul’s companions in travel. 30 But when Paul wished to go in among the crowd, the disciples would not let him. 31 And even some of the Asiarchs,5 who were friends of his [–> they had charge of the very Temple in question; obviously, Paul’s lectures in the Hall of Tyrannos and his reaching out to people had won him respect and even friendship], sent to him and were urging him not to venture into the theater.

32 Now [in the unlawful assembly] some cried out one thing, some another, for the assembly was in confusion, and most of them did not know why they had come together. 33 Some of the crowd prompted Alexander, whom the Jews had put forward. And Alexander, motioning with his hand, wanted to make a defense to the crowd.

34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all cried out with one voice, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”

35 And when the town clerk had quieted the crowd ] –> doubtless, sent by the Asiarchs], he said, “Men of Ephesus, who is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Artemis, and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky?6 [–> apparently a meteoritic object turned into an idol] 36 Seeing then that these things cannot be denied, you ought to be quiet and do nothing rash. 37 For you have brought these men here who are neither sacrilegious nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38 If therefore Demetrius and the craftsmen with him have a complaint against anyone, the courts are open, and there are proconsuls. Let them bring charges against one another. 39 But if you seek anything further,7 it shall be settled in the regular assembly. 40 For we really are in danger of being charged with rioting today, since there is no cause that we can give to justify this commotion.” [–> in effect he hinted of the regiment doubtless camped not too far away; cf. the Nika riots under Justinian]

41 And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly. [ESV]

How easily, the democratic impulse deteriorates into the raging, out of control, manipulated, riotous, destructive mob!

And if there was no excuse for rioting under a lawful oligarchy (what the C1 Roman Empire had become, after failure of the Republic through envy, selfish ambition, assassination and civil wars leading to the rise of Octavian as Augustus), how much more so, is it inexcusable in any reasonably functional modern constitutional democracy?

I give a bit of context:

U/D: context:

U/d b for clarity, nb Nil

Further U/D, Sep 5, context of the seven mountains model for mapping society/culture/ civilisation and its main pillars of influence:

Governance is visibly failing, some think the mob will be appeased (it cannot), we are at cliff’s edge, with alarming cracks.

Can’t we stop before we go over the cliff?

Please . . . ? END

F/N, Sept 4: FTR, here is a clip of the actual transcript in the context of an incident where Mr Trump is routinely and falsely said to have endorsed Neo-Nazis etc as fine people:

It is obvious that this is precisely the sort of condemnation of neo-nazis that it is suggested Mr Trump has failed to give. That such tainting misrepresentation continues to be routinely promoted speaks volumes on disregard for truth and fairness. Notice, too, how he anticipated the progression from attacking statues of confederate leaders to American founders, with the obvious extension that cancel culture has no limits.

F/N2: Anatomy of a Red Guards Brigadista hit team/swarm in action, Portland USA:

(I add, Sep 6, while the above photo is already demonstrative of a coordinated murderous ambush, there is a video analysis here, UD can only embed YT. This event likely shows that both major front groups involved in the Red Guards brigadista insurgency are joined at the hip. For instance, the shooter had a BLM fist tattoo on his neck and declared himself 100% Antifa. His later suicide by shootout likely shows commitment to not be taken alive, i.e. he had knowledge of key information he judged worth guarding at the cost of his life. Modern interrogation techniques will credibly eventually “break” anyone.)

Let’s clip:

Portland Police are seeking help to identify a possible accomplice pictured here in the Portland Patriot Prayer member shooting. Here is a picture of the moments before the shooting. Notice the shooter is beginning to move as he draws his weapon, even though he does not have a sightline to the targets yet, and his position behind that cover would seem to be far enough back he could not otherwise have known his targets were hitting that position at exactly that moment. How did he know his targets were about to enter the killzone right then, and he needed to draw and begin moving? Even more interesting, in the criminal complaint on page 17, it points out he was initially walking with a woman in a white T-shirt, coming from one direction to that corner, and both were staring down the street at the targets who were a ways away, coming from a completely different place, as if the shooter and his partner had been told over the air to go there, and the targets they were about to shoot were coming from that direction, and they were identifying them. Once they got a bead on the targets, the woman stopped at the corner and loitered as he continued on and took cover in that alcove. Taking a corner gave her sightlines up and down all streets there, which would be second nature to the trained surveillance operative. And yet not having a sightline to the shooter, how would she communicate with him?  They were linked by radio. Look up behind the targets in the picture above, and you will see a lone guy who looks like the guy they are looking for. Notice his hand is covering his mouth just as the shooter begins to move, and the shooter is not holding a walkie talkie to receive any broadcast. It looks an awful like the guy behind the targets had taken surveillance command of the targets, he was trained enough that casually covering his lower face as he whispered into his chest was second nature, and he was radioing to the shooter who had an earpiece to receive, and probably a chest mic to transmit, triggering his movement at that moment, coordinating it to the targets. Also interesting, this new character may be surveillance aware enough he turned away from the surveillance camera as he came into view of it.

It takes a lot of time, recruitment effort, ideological motivation/desensitisation to morality, tactical training by experienced experts and rehearsal to run a complex hit like this. (For sure, this is no hothead running up to someone they hate and shooting in a rage, the surveillance cam shot demonstrates an orchestrated hit of the type used by Intel agency wet work teams or sophisticated terrorists. “mostly peaceful” and “protest” are off the table.)

That has to have a significant, years-long logistics trail, with face to face and communications networking, yielding traffic patterns.

So, this one case may be a break into what is now clearly a terrorist network.

Take it as a yardstick indicating the extent and depth of what is going on, a full-orbed 4th generation war insurgency backed by years of organisation and serious logistics, with carefully laid plans and organisation.

F/N3: And yes, “NAZI” lives don’t matter:

Clear intent to slander, brand and rob of right to life. Instead, we must recognise that life is the first right, without which there are no other rights. Therefore, we start with mutual respect and go on from there.

F/N4: U-Haul a Riot, Sept 2020

Comments
ET, making it the law and making it fully accepted are not the same thing. It is against the law to discriminate against blacks and indigenous people, but it happens all the time. When me and my partner stay in hotels, we long since have stopped checking in at the counter together. There have been too many times where we have been told that there are no vacancies.Mac McTavish
September 24, 2020
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Let them fire you for being gay:
The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that workers cannot be fired for being gay or transgender in a blockbuster win for members of the LGBT community.
ET
September 24, 2020
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KF
Once war was declared on family, lawful policing, courts, history etc, it became patent what we are dealing with despite bland denials.
If part of this “war on family” means that I no longer have to fear being fired or denied services available to everyone else just because I happen to be gay, I welcome it.Mac McTavish
September 24, 2020
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785 Kairosfocus
You (Seversky) should be ashamed of yourself.
Don't hold your breath. Seversky is handling the utter failure of his ridiculous, amoral and unscientific we are all monkeys materialist cult.Truthfreedom
September 24, 2020
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Seversky, what rock have you been under these past months? There is always need for sound reformation, which is the opposite of the red guards, rioting, arson, looting, mayhem and worse currently going on with agit prop, media amplification and lawfare in misanthropic enmity to civilisation. Once war was declared on family, lawful policing, courts, history etc, it became patent what we are dealing with despite bland denials. Sorry, you are here exchanging with someone who is a witness to 4G civil war. They tried to deny what was happening at the time too and to project blame to right wing reaction. Then, ten years later Mr Gorbachev sent a delegation to apologise for what the Russians had done. KF PS: FYI, the National Socialist German Workers' Party was a party of the left in an era when even conservative opponents expected the socialists to prevail. (They had seen the catastrophe of 1914 - 18 and collapse of four monarchical empires in Europe, with much more.) Your sly hint above that Trump-supporting Republicans are parallel to the Nazis is enabling a now all too widespread blood libel. You should be ashamed of yourself.kairosfocus
September 24, 2020
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Kairosfocus/783
Seversky & MMT, do you think the fearless leaders behind an attempted cultural revolution or behind trying to turn impeachment into a routine parliamentary move are paragons of prudent good sense? Much less a lot of other things? KF
I don't know about a cultural revolution but there are badly-needed changes that need to be made. What concerns me are alarming signs that we could be seeing parallels to the last days of the Weimar Republic.Seversky
September 23, 2020
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Seversky & MMT, do you think the fearless leaders behind an attempted cultural revolution or behind trying to turn impeachment into a routine parliamentary move are paragons of prudent good sense? Much less a lot of other things? KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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Vivid, fixed now. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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TRuthfreedom “The “Recent Comments” section no longer links to the relevant posts, just to the blogs/ urls of the posters. Now you have to revise each and every post to see if there are new comments” I experienced the same problem Vivid.vividbleau
September 22, 2020
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Mac McTavish/770
I agree, there is utter mad folly at the reins of government.
President Trump,
I went from VERY successful businessman, to top T.V. Star ... to President of the United States (on my first try). I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius ... and a very stable genius at that!
Oscar Levant,
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Seversky
September 22, 2020
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TF, if evolutionary materialism were true, we would have no credible minds much less ones open to facts, reasoning, prudent evaluation and warrant. Self-referential incoherence. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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F/N: On impeachment, in an interview with NYT Journalist, Speaker Pelosi goes on record:
Swisher: All right, but I’m going to press you one more time. What is your power to do this? I get the election, but you can get up more. You can speak out more. You can do more impeachments, things like that. Do you have enough power? Pelosi: Well, we can impeach him every day of the week for anything he does.
This shows where we have reached in the polarisation and lawfare agenda. An extreme resort to address high crimes and misdemeanours is treated as though it were a no confidence Westminster Style vote with the added advantage of tainting the target. This is lawless, nihilistic and destructive. Yes, she goes on to suggest that Mr Trump is impeachable because there have been 200,000 deaths attributable to Covid-19. That is already highly dubious as there is no good basis to argue that the US on a reasonable per population basis is out of line with peer countries. A terrible contagious disease is spreading globally, there has been suppression of credible treatment possibilities on grounds that are dubious but make it very hard to respond in good time in ways that reduce deaths. Ventilator challenges were solved. A candidate vaccine is on fast track, though I am dubious on vaccines for corona viruses. The argument comes across as motivated by deep rooted hostility that is feeding lawlessness. Lawfare like this is destructive. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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774 Kairosfocus Yes, the site is now running smoothly. :) Let's keep debunking all the "materialist" non-sense. Because materialists are open minded people who carefully address without reservations the challenges their materialist ideology faces. Especially, its epistemological blunder. Materialism’s Failures: Hylemorphism’s Vindication. (Aristotle is back). Oh, wait... Truthfreedom
September 22, 2020
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F/N: Are people blind to the implications of threatened lawfare on voting outcomes, complete with talk of resorting to military action to forcibly remove an alleged defeated President? Further threatened impeachment over exercise of an undoubted Presidential power to nominate to full judicial vacancy, in a situation where a full SC may well be vital to a reasonable resolution of the lawfare? (Is it not patent that late justice RBG should have retired six or so years ago, if it was her desire to have a friendly follow on appointment to what has deteriorated into an appointed-member, life term super legislature by the back door? [How is that underlying problem going to be fixed?]) Do we see what dehumanisation of our living posterity in the womb and demanding freedom to effectively kill at will have done to institutions and to dynamics? Do we therefore realise the utterly corrupting influence of mass blood guilt under colour of law, rights, progress etc? Notice, Senator Graham's exasperated remarks at the Kavanaugh hearing here: https://streamable.com/owzwf2 Notice, how accusations were held back in reserve to be used in an ambush of accusations in a context where there is no true defence against defamation. I suspect, that will drive selection of a woman, and it will drive a far more tight reigning in of debate, to avert a similar toxic attempt to groundlessly destroy someone's reputation and life. I suspect that for many people, the general climate of the past several years is epitomised by that set of hearings. I would add, that many other accusations and ruthless abuses of parliamentary power and privileges fit the same sick, frankly demonic pattern. An exorcism is necessary, with accountability over what was done. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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JAD, ethical egoism boils down to might and/or manipulation make 'right,' 'rights,' 'justice,' 'truth,' 'logic,' 'warrant,' 'knowledge' etc, i.e. it is nihilistic. Instantly, absurd. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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TF, you may have noticed, the links to threads are back. Something must have been going funny with WP settings and widgets, likely tied to updates. KFkairosfocus
September 22, 2020
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*Off topic: The "Recent Comments" section no longer links to the relevant posts, just to the blogs/ urls of the posters. Now you have to revise each and every post to see if there are new comments.Truthfreedom
September 21, 2020
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Kf @ 754,
. . . Subjective relativism is the view that an action is morally right if one approves of it. A person’s approval makes the action right. This doctrine (as well as cultural relativism) is in stark contrast to moral objectivism, the view that some moral principles are valid for everyone.. Subjective relativism, though, has some troubling implications. It implies that each person is morally infallible and that individuals can never have a genuine moral disagreement
What is the difference between moral subjectivism and ethical egoism? Here is SEP’s definition: “Ethical egoism claims that I morally ought to perform some action if and only if, and because, performing that action maximizes my self-interest.” https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/egoism/#EthiEgoi A second question is, how do we create an ethical, moral and just society if it is dominated by ethical egoists?john_a_designer
September 20, 2020
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MMT, government and more properly governance are distributed across a range of institutions, tied to dominating worldviews and linked cultural and policy agendas. The current situation is a needless, likely horrifically damaging 4G civil war (with rising kinetic and lawfare components) driven by the accelerated radicalisation of the conventional left; tied to the resurgence of marxism in cultural form. As a measure I sometimes ask what is a community organiser of the Chicago School. It is highly significant that there has long been a studied silence on proper definition, as that for one would instantly tell us what the founders of the BLM are, by their own confession. In my experience very few can readily make the connexion to Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals and the Frankfurt School displaced to Columbia University. That becomes even more significant when we recognise the dominance of the media and how readily what they wish to promote spreads, sometimes to the point where some viral videos show them obviously singing off the same hymn sheet with virtually identical phrasing. Especially, when we are living with the consequences of just such an organiser being elected US president on a tide of media enthusiasm, twice. So, MMT, pray thee, kindly tell us just what a community organiser is _____ and is trained to do _____ . KFkairosfocus
September 20, 2020
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KF
With utterly mad folly at the reins.
I agree, there is utter mad folly at the reins of government.Mac McTavish
September 19, 2020
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Off topic. Am I the only one that is having problems navigating this website? It is very slow and there are no longer any links on the Recent Comments section.Mac McTavish
September 19, 2020
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F/N: Here we go, a tweet on Holder on a show with Al Sharpton:
Profile photo, opens profile page on Twitter in a new tab Tom Elliott @tomselliott Replying to @tomselliott Holder: If Republicans replace Ginsburg and create an “illegitimate majority,” then "what Democrats have to do … at a minimum … additional justices need to be placed on the Supreme Court."
The improper use of "illegitimate" is incendiary language at this time, incitement. Coming, from a former AG of the US who should know and speak far better. That is already telling, with the further long since declared intent to put up to six further judges and to shift the number of US States on a partisan basis. Such is of course lawfare connected to the ongoing cultural revolution push that inserted Critical Race Theory into HR in US Govt agencies and it seems education (and not just through the 1619 ideological rewrite). An extremely radical, culture form marxist agenda is patently on the march and the lawfare intent targetting Supreme Court and Senate indicates likelihood of intent to strip inconvenient rights, freedoms and legitimacy from those who are already being blood libelled as Nazis etc. Such of course points to a further spiralling up of the kinetic dimension of the 4G civil war insurgency that is already in progress. Where if such things are being said publicly, what more is being discussed behind closed doors? (BTW, there is an extremely urgent reason to fill a Supreme Court vacancy quickly, the obvious potential for chaos surrounding the election. Which is sure to be caught up in lawfare. I add, the US SC nomination process is fundamentally changed given the scorched earth slander lawfare tactics used against Mr Kavanaugh. The borking was bad, things are far worse now post Kavanaugh.) The Juggernaut is spinning out of control. With utterly mad folly at the reins. Incredible. KFkairosfocus
September 19, 2020
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Sev, no prudent person would encourage the invitation to chaos Vivid documented. Thanks for letting us know what you wish to enable in the teeth of warning. We will draw further, due conclusions. KFkairosfocus
September 19, 2020
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Seversky, do you notice how you speak of POTENTIAL human lives above? Diagnostic of the very dehumanisation I spoke of. Next, as we know from self-defence issues etc., there are circumstances where we are forced to acknowledge justification in taking human life; that does not obviate the right to life, it reflects just how awful a choice we may be forced into. Even under such circumstances we have no right to dehumanise. KF PS: I find it interesting that you try to dismiss the marxist framework publicly admitted to by founders and built into CRITICAL Race THEORY, etc. FYI, a critical theory is a Marxist theory rooted directly in the Frankfurt School and onward in Marx's work (they picked up culture and class emphases). Such theories therefore are properly to be addressed as such. As to the Red Guards as cannon fodder insurgency using 4GW operational patterns, that too is manifest and now traceable through Colour Revolutions and the Arab Spring to McFaul's operating principles. Your refusal to acknowledge cogent evidence does not change our duty to act prudently in that light. PPS: Evidently you have forgotten the role played by Christians acting on gospel ethics principles in addressing the slave trade and slavery system. Similarly, for many other age-long ills. I again remind of Bernard Lewis. PPPS: Perhaps, it has escaped you that on the Biblical tradition, the human body and its functionality to specifically include reproduction, are not as originally designed. Where, death itself is an evil that checks a greater one, unlimited increase in wickedness. Death is specifically an enemy to be overcome at the culmination.kairosfocus
September 19, 2020
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Oh boy, Seversky is pro-choice, although according to his obsolete and amoral materialist worldview, people do not have free will. No choice whatsoever. Ridiculous to the point of burst out laughing.Truthfreedom
September 19, 2020
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681 Seversky
Still using the red herring of a mythical Marxist insurgency to distract attention from the endemic racism that underlies the BLM movement?
What were you doing before the marxist movement BLM started its (violent) activities to help minimize or erradicate that "endemic racism"? If it was so glaringly obvious, you certainly were doing something, because you are a devout SJW who fights "injustices" across the world with your mighty keyboard. For example, you were doing: 1. __________ Maybe you were reading all people "oppressed" by "racial inequality" passages from The Descent of Man?
Although best known for On the Origin of Species, Darwin does not address human evolution and race until his 1871 book, The Descent of Man, in which Darwin applies his theories of natural selection to humans and introduces the idea of sexual selection. Here his white supremacism is revealed. Over the course of the book, Darwin describes Australians, Mongolians, Africans, Indians, South Americans, Polynesians, and even Eskimos as “savages:” It becomes clear that he considers every population that is not white and European to be savage. The word savage is disdainful, and Darwin constantly elevates white Europeans above the savages. Darwin explains that the “highest races and the lowest savages” differ in “moral disposition … and in intellect” (36). The idea that white people are more intelligent and moral persists throughout. At one point, Darwin says that savages have “low morality,” “insufficient powers of reasoning,” and “weak power of self-command” (97). Darwin’s specific consideration of intellectual capacities is especially alarming. The Dark Side of Darwinism
So you got your "morality" from The Descent of Man? No wonder you were so shy about it.Truthfreedom
September 19, 2020
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Kairosfocus/760
DS, the pivotal issue is life. In 40 odd years the worst holocaust in human history has proceeded under our watch. Until we squarely face it and its consequences, we will simply erode the core of civilisation and even rationality as reason is morally governed. This is a big part of the current chaos. KF
If we are to be held morally accountable for the loss of millions of potential human lives due to abortions as a result of human intervention then so should the designer of the human reproductive process that is so poorly designed as to cause about the same number of miscarriages. You write of the 40-odd years of the worst holocaust in human history but are strangely silent about the much larger holocaust that has been taking place for thousands of years before. How many billions of potential human lives have been lost - unrecognized, uncounted and unmourned - to a reproductive process designed by an - allegedly - all-knowing, all-powerful Creator who could - and should - have done better, if He is the God in whom you believe. The responsibility for that much greater holocaust should be laid fairly and squarely at His door if we are going to apportion blame.Seversky
September 19, 2020
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DaveS/758
More seriously, I think this is one reason why one reason why this issue is so polarized. The “pro-choice” side is concerned that once Roe v Wade is overturned, abortion could be banned altogether in some states. Even in cases such as ectopic pregnancy
If Roe v Wade is overturned then there will be an increase in "abortion tourism" to states where abortion is legal, for those who can afford it, or a return to the horrors of "back-street abortions" for those who can't. And the "compassionate" Christian response will be to throw all who are involved in jail and wallow in insufferable sanctimonious smugness.Seversky
September 19, 2020
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Kairosfocus/753
Sev, neither you nor I have any power to extend or withdraw the right to life. We are only duty bound to recognise and respect it. That compounds the error. KF
I agree that the right to life is the most fundamental of all and should be respected by us even if we were to have the power to extend it. However, we also recognize exceptions to that right in specific cases. It is considered permissible to kill in defense of one's own life or those of others if there is no reasonable alternative and to kill those under arms against our country in time of war. I would also argue that in those tragic cases where a mother's life is endangered by the continuation of a pregnancy then aborting the fetus is allowable as the lesser of two evils.
PS: Vivid has already adequately highlighted the pivotal difference between established absentee voting and the more or less novel mail in game.
The article fromUSA Today that I quoted made it quite clear that all mailed-in ballots are subject to verification before being counted. Both the passage from the Washington Times article and VB's quotation of it are grossly misleading in my view.Seversky
September 19, 2020
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DS, the pivotal issue is life. In 40 odd years the worst holocaust in human history has proceeded under our watch. Until we squarely face it and its consequences, we will simply erode the core of civilisation and even rationality as reason is morally governed. This is a big part of the current chaos. KF PS, I remind
We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. Inescapable, as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so also to fairness and justice etc. Such built in law is not invented by parliaments or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice. The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly aquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right. Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law. These duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifesting our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God.
Epictetus on inescapability of logic
DISCOURSES CHAPTER XXV How is logic necessary? When someone in [Epictetus'] audience said, Convince me that logic is necessary, he answered: Do you wish me to demonstrate this to you?—Yes.—Well, then, must I use a demonstrative argument?—And when the questioner had agreed to that, Epictetus asked him. How, then, will you know if I impose upon you?—As the man had no answer to give, Epictetus said: Do you see how you yourself admit that all this instruction is necessary, if, without it, you cannot so much as know whether it is necessary or not? [Notice, inescapable, thus self evidently true and antecedent to the inferential reasoning that provides deductive proofs and frameworks, including axiomatic systems and propositional calculus etc. Cf J. C. Wright]
F/N: A responsible discussion of ectopic pregnancies is here. F/N2: we need to reckon also with the use of legal positivism that has in effect turned the US Supreme Court into an appointed, life-term super legislature. The threat on the table to expand to 15, to load it with ideologues pushing agendas liable to cause chaos is a case in point.kairosfocus
September 19, 2020
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