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L&FP, 67: So-called “critical rationalism” and the blunder of denying [defeat-able] warrant for knowledge

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IEP summarises:

“Critical Rationalism” is the name Karl Popper (1902-1994) gave to a modest and self-critical rationalism. He contrasted this view with “uncritical or comprehensive rationalism,” the received justificationist view that only what can be proved by reason and/or experience should be accepted. Popper argued that comprehensive rationalism cannot explain how proof is possible and that it leads to inconsistencies. Critical rationalism today is the project of extending Popper’s approach to all areas of thought and action. In each field the central task of critical rationalism is to replace allegedly justificatory methods with critical ones.

A common summary of this is that it replaces knowledge as justified, true belief, with “knowledge is unjustified untrue unbelief.” That is, we see here the ill advised privileging of hyperskepticism.

The quick answer is to update our understanding, based on how well informed people of common good sense generally use “knowledge.” Knowledge is a term of the people, not some abstruse, rarefied, dubious philosophical notion. And it is a term that is sound,

Namely, and following Plantinga, Gettier and others, knowledge is warranted, credibly true [and reliable] belief, i.e. it includes strong form cases where what is known is absolutely certain, AND a wider, weaker sense where what we claim to know is tested and found reliable, but is open to correction for cause. Newtonian dynamics counted as knowledge before the rise of modern physics and with modification to recognise limitations it still counts as knowledge. This is a paradigm case.

But doesn’t that come down to the same thing as critical rationalism and its focus on what is hard to criticise as what counts for now as “knowledge”?

Not at all.

First, the confident but open to correction spirit of warrant and tested reliability is utterly different from the cramped, distorted thought that naturally flows from the blunder of privileging selective or even global hyperskepticism.

Second, inference to the best explanation and wider observational, inductive approaches — the vast majority of common, day to day knowledge and professional practice — is not put under the chilling effect of dismissive, undue suspicion.

Third, knowledge is accepted as a commonplace phenomenon, not a privilege of the elite few, undermining the subtext of contempt that reeks out of far too much of skeptical discussion.

And if you imagine these considerations are of little weight, that is because you are part of the problem. END

Comments
This reflects the last 60 years of debates and has the major advantages of recognising ordinary people, rejecting selective or global hyperskepticism, not being self referentially incoherent, and allowing degrees of warrant.
There's that pesky false dilemma again. Yes. It is getting repetitive.critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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PM1, yes, it is arguable that the original sense of justified included issues of objective warrant. But over the past generation it has become necessary to mark a distinction. Multiply by the point that knowledge belongs to the people and that we must avoid self referential discredit and we see that we need a sense that can take in utter certainty but also weaker degrees of warrant still adequate to have credible truth and so reliability. Good enough to bet the farm, so to speak. KFkairosfocus
March 28, 2023
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CR, obviously, as the very term, warrant, highlights, I am not a "justificationist." Just as, I am not a "Scientismist," and I am not an "empiricist." Gettier was 60 years ago and Plantinga on Warrant and Proper function 40 - 50. If any thing, call me a a modified Willardist, if labels solve problems (though this only highlights that Willard has made some good points). KF PS, Having addressed the concerns above, I draw your attention again, to what is already in 2 above and would have solved many problems. I add a further note or two:
To have knowledge in the dispositional sense—where you know things you are not necessarily thinking about at the time—is to be able to represent something as it is on an adequate basis of thought or experience, not to exclude communications from qualified sources (“authority”). This is the “knowledge” of ordinary life [--> knowledge belongs to the people], and it is what you expect of your electrician, auto mechanic, math teacher, and physician. Knowledge is not rare, and it is not esoteric [--> our understanding must not rob ordinary people of knowledge, it must accept that ordinary people know many things on a responsible basis, this recognition would solve many needless issues] . . . no satisfactory general description of “an adequate basis of thought or experience” has ever been achieved. [--> we asess case by case in merits of warrant] We are nevertheless able to determine in many specific types of cases that such a basis is or is not present [p.19] . . . . Knowledge, but not mere belief or feeling, generally confers the right to act and to direct action, or even to form and supervise policy. [p. 20, this is a rub in a day of undermining legitimate expertise and authority] In any area of human activity, knowledge brings certain advantages. Special considerations aside, knowledge authorizes one to act, to direct action, to develop and supervise policy, and to teach. It does so because, as everyone assumes, it enables us to deal more successfully with reality: with what we can count on, have to deal with, or are apt to have bruising encounters with [--> as warranted, it is reliable and even credibly the case, so to act contrary to it without good reason is irresponsible]. Knowledge involves assured [--> warranted, credible] truth, and truth in our representations and beliefs is very like accuracy in the sighting mechanism on a gun. If the mechanism is accurately aligned—is “true,” it enables those who use it with care to hit an intended target. [p. 4, Dallas Willard & Literary Heirs, The Disappearance of Moral Knowledge, Routledge|Taylor& Francis Group, 2018. ]
This reflects the last 60 years of debates and has the major advantages of recognising ordinary people, rejecting selective or global hyperskepticism, not being self referentially incoherent, and allowing degrees of warrant.kairosfocus
March 28, 2023
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Andrew at 114, "Yep. And it’s getting nastier and repetitive. :) I... I noticed that!relatd
March 28, 2023
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CR
Ori: Conjecture has to “survive” criticism and tests. Clearly, *somehow* criticism & tests are sources of unquestionable truth.
CR: Cleary? They are adopted tentatively. How is that unquestionable?
How then do you establish the validity of a specific criticism or test? - - - - - -
CR: Hyper skepticism is a claim that we know nothing. I’m not a hyper skeptic. This a false dilemma.
Ori: What, according to you, do we know? What is above and beyond unjustifiable conjecture?
CR: ….
Origenes
March 28, 2023
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"ID must be denied… and denied… and denied, etc." Relatd, Yep. And it's getting nastier and repetitive. ;) Andrewasauber
March 28, 2023
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Andrew at 106, ID must be denied... and denied... and denied, etc.relatd
March 28, 2023
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Conjecture has to “survive” criticism and tests. Clearly, *somehow* criticism & tests are sources of unquestionable truth.
Cleary? They are adopted tentatively. How is that unquestionable? It seems you cannot read even a simple sentence without injecting that assumption into the content. Observations and experience are neutral without first being placed in some kind of explanatory framework. The is what I meant when I wrote...
This discussion will continue to go nowhere because you’ve defined knowledge as justified, true belief, even if in some weaker attempt at salvaging it in form of warrant, credences, etc.
This is precisely why observations are theory laden. That sentence does not contain that assumption. So your experience of reading cannot be the source of that assumption. You bring that to the table, when you bring your theory of knowledge to interpret it. And you continually do so, despite having been given clarifications to the contrary. So, what gives? Apparently you're not actually interested in advice or input, as you keep ignoring it. It's just theater? Or perhaps you cannot conceive of it beyond a single comment or even a single sentence? So I find myself in effectively a wack-a-mole scenario, in which , as soon as one misconception is clarified, another pops up, and another, until eventually we end up back were we started. etc.? This is why I keep saying I'm not an anti-theist. Theism is a special case of justificationism.critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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I think there's something actually quite philosophically and psychologically interesting about how Plato understood what's become known as "the JTB model". A more accurate translation of what he had in mind would be "true insight with an account". That is, one needs to be able to articulate one's discerning insight. The paradigm of this is teaching: as all teachers know, and as Plato himself understood perfectly well, the hallmark of how well you understand something is how well you can teach it. I think there's a crucial insight there that we should not jettison just because causal explanations are not derived from inductive generalizations, though inductive generalizations are crucial for how we test proposed causal explanations.PyrrhoManiac1
March 28, 2023
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See the problems?
Do I see the problems for you, as a justificationist? Yes. But you're projecting that problem on me. We do not need justification. That we do, otherwise we know nothing, is implicit in your objections. It's a false dilemma. We do not need to salvage the JTB theory of knowledge. This discussion will continue to go nowhere because you've defined knowledge as justified, true belief, even if in some weaker attempt at salvaging it in form of warrant, credences, etc. From the refutation of Dykes on Popper....
Popper's actual position is that words can’t be defined with perfect accuracy since all definitions have to employ undefined words. Suppose I say that a tiger is “a big cat”. If all the terms are defined then there is a definition of “a” and “big” and “cat” and these definitions refer to other words and if those definitions are defined then they lead to still more definitions with still more words… So either we use undefined words or we have an infinite regress. As a result of this problem the habit of trying to understand the world by coming up with the right definitions, which Popper calls “methodological essentialism”, is untenable. A word is shorthand for an idea not for some imaginary perfect definition. As such, we should be willing to change terminology to talk in ways that other people understand. That is, we should be willing to use their definitions. Furthermore, we should never try to be more precise than is necessary to address the problem we are dealing with since this will lead to loss of clarity. The best summary of his position on this issue is (Unended Quest, p. 24):
Every increase in clarity is an intellectual value in itself; an increase in precision or exactness has only a pragmatic value as a means to some definite end – where the end is usually an increase in testability or criticizability demanded by the problem situation…
Dykes never states let alone answers Popper’s argument on definitions.
You wrote....
Clearly, nothing in this that is of value goes beyond, knowledge belongs to the people...
Clearly, in Popper's thought experiment (#102:16), retaining knowledge in books, but not people, has no value? Again, we can more fundamentally conceive of knowledge as information that plays a causal role in being retained when embedded in a storage medium. Where those Venn diagrams I keep asking you for? We're up to 2 now. Here's a third. Draw a circle for "knowledge is information that plays a casual role in being retained when embedded in a storage medium" and "knowledge in respect to knowing subjects." Where does this fail to overlap? Does knowledge in people not play a causal role in being retained? From the other thread...
Take memes, for example. Memes that are well adapted to replicate go viral, while other memes do not. Their content plays a causal role in whether they will be retained or not, when embedded in a storage medium. Can we replace one meme with another and get the same result, despite memes being "non-material"? There must be some crucial [, causal] aspect of a meme that causes it to go viral. Otherwise, we could replace one meme with any other meme and get the same result. But this doesn’t seem to the case. Right? This is despite the fact that being "non-material", memes are instantiated in brains, books, hard drives, etc.
What the heck is going on here?critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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KF @105 Excellent commentary and summary. The unexplained privileged status of criticism in Popper’s concept jumps out at me. Conjecture has to “survive” criticism and tests. Clearly, *somehow* criticism & tests are sources of unquestionable truth. But how can that be? Every criticism is necessarily mere unjustified conjecture. And, according to Popper, we can neither trust our senses, our instruments, nor our interpretation of tests — see #97. I would suggest that the whole idea is incoherent.Origenes
March 28, 2023
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CR, both can be true, as say the schools level "scientific method" highlights. Laws and theories are posed to explain patterns that are observed. Predictive power for future observations becomes a key reliability test. KF PS, there is global hyperskepticism and there is selective. For the latter, favoured theories or narratives are treated far more leniently than those that are disfavoured when an examination of resources for warrant would indicate that they should be treated alike. Double standards, in short, now a fast spreading problem.kairosfocus
March 28, 2023
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To clarify, empiricism was an improvement in that it emphasized empirical observations. However, it got the role of empirical observations backwards. Theories are tested by observations, not derived from them.critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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"since we can never know for certain, there can be no authority here for any claim to authority" Some simply refuse to get it. And so the years pass by... Andrewasauber
March 28, 2023
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F/N: Popper's introductory summary, in Preface to Conjectures and Refutations, with brief comments and a few notes following. Note, we have here what can be termed an exercise in mixed messaging, which tries to deflect otherwise fatal objections, the key will be to see the self referentiality involved:
. . . The way in which knowledge progresses [a --> so, generality is intended], and especially our scientific knowledge [b --> focal/dominant domain, the scientism issue lurks], is by unjustified (and unjustifiable) anticipations [c --> evades warrant, wild guessing does not work, abductive reasoning is being deflected and invidiously associated with want of responsible approach], by guesses, by tentative solutions to our problems, by conjectures . These conjectures are controlled by criticism [d --> privileging of hyperskepticism is invited]; that is, by attempted refutations [e --> only in part, warrant is being cramped here] , which include severely critical tests [f --> further invitation to elitist hyperskepticism]. They may survive these tests; but they can never be positively justified [f --> utter certainty smuggled in as criterion, but most common experience knowledge is not utterly certain, nor is Math post Godel]: they can neither be established as certainly true nor even as 'probable' (in the sense of the probability calculus) [g --> what of responsibly warranted, credibly true and tested, reliable propositions?]. Criticism of our conjectures is of decisive importance: by bringing out our mistakes it makes us understand the difficulties of the problem which we are trying to solve. [h --> critique is an issue but neither the sole nor dominant one, that is, to hold a proposition for good reason] This is how we become better acquainted with our problem, and able to propose more mature solutions: the very refutation of a theory--that is, of any serious tentative solution to our problem--is always a step forward that takes us nearer to the truth. [i --> not at all, back to square one can happen] And this is how we can learn from our mistakes. [j --> and, is this summary, a meta theory of knowledge, itself under these strictures? If so, it too is of low credibility] As we learn from our mistakes our knowledge grows, even though we may never know--that is, know for certain. [k --> the absolute certainty strawman is made explicit] Since our knowledge can grow, there can be no reason here for despair of reason.
[l --> deflection, to evade the self referential incoherence of a general knowledge claim that we cannot know to certainty, but if this is not certain, then it is possible that we can know some things to utter certainty and this claim collapses. Try, || + ||| --> ||||| using fingers to illustrate, or error exists or knowledge is possible. The thesis has collapsed, by self referential self defeat. Similarly, by privileging hyperskepticism, which invites power games as deciding what is or is not stamped knowledge vs conspiracy theories or pseudoscience or the like. Resemblance to media tactics etc is not coincidental.]
And since we can never know for certain, there can be no authority here for any claim to authority [m --> delegitimising expertise, knowledge, reference], for conceit over our knowledge, or for smugness. [n --> what about reasonable confidence?] Those among our theories which turn out to be highly resistant to criticism [o --> what is valid in this is, what is well warranted for good reason has the balance on merits], and which appear to us at a certain moment of time to be better approximations to truth [p --> how do we measure closeness to truth than by warrant?] than other known theories [q --> superiority on comparative difficulties across factual adequacy, coherence, explanatory power], may be described, together with the reports of their tests, as 'the science' of that time. [r --> science as prestige] Since none of them can be positively justified, [s --> including this meta theory?] it is essentially their critical and progressive character -the fact that we can argue about their claim to solve our problems better than their competitors--which constitutes the rationality of science.
See the problems? Clearly, nothing in this that is of value goes beyond, knowledge belongs to the people, so we must reckon with a weak sense not just a strong one. Where, knowledge is warranted, credibly true (so, reliable but potentially revisable) belief, still stands. KFkairosfocus
March 28, 2023
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CR @
Hyper skepticism is a claim that we know nothing. I’m not a hyper skeptic. This a false dilemma.
What, according to you, do we know? What is above and beyond unjustifiable conjecture?Origenes
March 28, 2023
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@KF
CR: While this seemed like a good foundation roughly 100 years ago, when empiricism was conceived, KF: Not relevant to what is on the table.
The context of this was examples of being self-contridctory. And I was clear about the definition that was founded roughly 100 years ago. So, It is relevant. Arguments for attempts to salvage empiricism, like attempts to salvage the JTB theory of knowledge, are found in that very same comment, which you ignored, and elsewhere in this thread. Why don't you start there? For example....
Such ideas do not create themselves, nor can they be mechanically derived from anything: they have to be guessed – after which they can be criticized and tested. To the extent that experiencing dots ‘writes’ something into our brains, it does not write explanations but only dots. Nor is nature a book: one could try to ‘read’ the dots in the sky for a lifetime – many lifetimes – without learning anything about what they really are.”
Theories are not "out there" for us to observe. So, they cannot be derived from experience. Origenes claimed this was a weird idea refuted by Dykes. To quote Dykes..
, is Popper asking us to accept that the heliocentric theory came before observation of perturbations in planetary orbits? Or that insect-eating plants were surmised before Darwin happened to examine sundews?
Are they mere outliners that have gone "rogue" in thinking this conflicts with a modern interpretation of empiricism?critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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1: No-one has sought to define knowledge as justified, true belief, as a clue, consider the import of “warrant” in this context, given Gettier, Plantinga and others.
“The philosopher Plato wrote in Theaetetus about how one comes to know something. He is responsible for giving us our understanding of knowledge, which has been called justified true belief, now known as the JTB theory.
Since then, philosophers have been trying to salvage at least some aspects of JTB theory from criticisms such as the Gettier problem, etc. Specially, salvaging some kind of positive direction of justification, like warrant, credences, etc. 2: See above. >>– For some a to justified by b, then b must be justified, by some c, which must be justified by some d, etc.>> 3: Again, Popper’s reasonable response is to give up the quest for justification all together. We do not need it. What we have are ideas that we currently lack good criticism of. Can you draw a Venn diagram of basic beefs and ideas that we currently lack good criticism of that does not completely overlap? 4: See above 5: Given that ID’s designer is abstract, it is an explanation less authority. >>– Knowledge is not true because all ideas are incomplete and contain errors to some degree.>> 6: Both hyperskeptical and self defeating, ending in, there is no knowledge of truth. Hyper skepticism is a claim that we know nothing. I’m not a hyper skeptic. This a false dilemma.
William Warren Bartley compared critical rationalism to the very general philosophical approach to knowledge which he called justificationism, the view that scientific theories can be justified. Most justificationists do not know that they are justificationists. Justificationism is what Popper called a "subjectivist" view of truth, in which the question of whether some statement is true is confused with the question of whether it can be justified (established, proven, verified, warranted, made well-founded, made reliable, grounded, supported, legitimated, based on evidence) in some way. According to Bartley, some justificationists are positive about this mistake. They are naïve rationalists, and thinking that their knowledge can indeed be founded, in principle, it may be deemed certain to some degree, and rational. Other justificationists are negative about these mistakes. They are epistemological relativists, and think (rightly, according to the critical rationalist) that you cannot find knowledge, that there is no source of epistemological absolutism. But they conclude (wrongly, according to the critical rationalist) that there is therefore no rationality, and no objective distinction to be made between the true and the false. By dissolving justificationism itself, the critical rationalist (a proponent of non-justificationism)[8] regards knowledge and rationality, reason and science, as neither foundational nor infallible, but nevertheless does not think we must therefore all be relativists. Knowledge and truth still exist, just not in the way we thought.
In fact this is highly prevalent in your response. So I’ll just note this in points where appropriate. 7: What was assumed about Pythagorean's theorem before general relativity? Had you asked me what was erroneous about Pythagorean's theorem before general relativity, what would have been my answer?
Kant associated geometric knowledge with the pure intuition of space; to know that an isosceles triangle (i.e. with two equal sides) has two equal angles at the base, the mathematician must produce a particular construction that makes the truth of the claim demonstrable,
And the false dilemma. 8: The false dilemma. 9: The false dilemma 13: Which attempts to salvage the JTB theory of knowledge. 14: The false dilemma. 15: Which attempts to salvage the JTB theory of knowledge. 16: Belief is not limited to brains. Take Popper’s thought experiment. All of the knowledge in people that is also currently in books is somehow lost. It may take hundreds of years to get back to where we are now, but it we will recover, because that knowledge remains in books Now, propose all of that knowledge is lost in both people and books. It will take us millennia to recover, if even at all. Knowledge is objective. It plays a causal role in being retained when embedded in a storage medium. It is independent of knowing subjects. 17: But, again, the idea that we need justification in any form, as some means of salvaging the JTB theory’s positive, direction, is unnecessarily. It reflects a a subjectivist theory of truth, as indicated above.critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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@Origenes 99
I have made an earlier attempt to read this alleged “refutation” of Dykes and failed.
An earlier attempt would have failed because the link was broken. So, unless you searched via google to find it, this isn't exactly unexpected. Should my response be: "What on earth do you mean? What's wrong with you?"
Totally unreadable.
Being "totally unreadable" is highly vague criticism. See above.critical rationalist
March 28, 2023
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PyrrhoManiac1
Slightly off-topic, but related: I recently read Erik Larson’s The Myth of Artificial Intelligence in which abduction — or guessing — is central to the account of why AGI is currently impossible.
You might find Deutsch's article in Aeon magazine interesting. From the article...
The lack of progress in AGI is due to a severe logjam of misconceptions. Without Popperian epistemology, one cannot even begin to guess what detailed functionality must be achieved to make an AGI. And Popperian epistemology is not widely known, let alone understood well enough to be applied. Thinking of an AGI as a machine for translating experiences, rewards and punishments into ideas (or worse, just into behaviours) is like trying to cure infectious diseases by balancing bodily humours: futile because it is rooted in an archaic and wildly mistaken world view. Without understanding that the functionality of an AGI is qualitatively different from that of any other kind of computer program, one is working in an entirely different field. If one works towards programs whose ‘thinking’ is constitutionally incapable of violating predetermined constraints, one is trying to engineer away the defining attribute of an intelligent being, of a person: namely creativity. Clearing this logjam will not, by itself, provide the answer. Yet the answer, conceived in those terms, cannot be all that difficult. For yet another consequence of understanding that the target ability is qualitatively different is that, since humans have it and apes do not, the information for how to achieve it must be encoded in the relatively tiny number of differences between the DNA of humans and that of chimpanzees. So in one respect I can agree with the AGI-is-imminent camp: it is plausible that just a single idea stands between us and the breakthrough. But it will have to be one of the best ideas ever.
Also, see Deutsche's essay in the "Possible Minds" book interesting. Here's a video of Deutsch reading it.critical rationalist
March 27, 2023
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CR @98 I have made an earlier attempt to read this alleged "refutation" of Dykes and failed. Totally unreadable.Origenes
March 27, 2023
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@Origenes
Your advice, please.
While you could have searched for it, the link to the refutation of Dykes on Popper in my previous comment was broken. The correct link is here. If you actually want my advice, come back when you’re read the post.critical rationalist
March 27, 2023
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With all the negativity aimed at "empiricism", and the intense distrust of our senses, one has to wonder how fallibilism is supposed to work, and how conjecture is being tested. I note that according to Popper, even “our observational instruments are based upon theories” [TSIB 134] and thus also suspect as producers of sense data. So, how then does irreparably unreliable observation produce true facts about the world? As Dykes observes:
We have been forbidden to regard as certain anything which we may think we know about facts: all knowledge is conjectural. We have been told that our senses are suspect and that all our observations are ‘theory impregnated’. We have been told that facts can’t be false: ‘false conjectures contradict some real state of affairs’. Yet, according to fallibilism, anything we can claim to ‘know’ has to be falsifiable. Even armed with Popper’s earlier distinction between ‘falsifiable’ and ‘falsification’, we are led to the seemingly inevitable conclusion that we can never know any facts. Similarly, we can never find out what is true. For if truth is correspondence with the facts, as Popper assured us, and we cannot know any facts, then we cannot know any truth.
I think that last sentence was meant to say: For if truth is correspondence with the facts, as Popper assured us, and we cannot know any truth, then we cannot know any facts. As an aside, there is also no way to discover the laws of nature.
“There is no road, royal or otherwise, which leads of necessity from a ‘given’ set of specific facts to any universal law” [OKN 359]; or that: “There can be no valid reasoning from singular observation statements to universal laws of nature” [RASC 32]
And BTW the idea that there is a world at all remains conjectural …
“The entities of the physical world — processes, forces, fields of forces — interact among one another, and therefore with material bodies. Thus we conjecture them to be real... even though their reality remains conjectural” [TSIB 36].
Origenes
March 27, 2023
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CR, continuing, on theory laden observations etc, per your clip: >>Empiricism is the idea that all knowledge comes to us from the senses.>> 18: There is a world of difference between the empirical, observable and inductively inferred and empiricism, a particular school of thought, IOW, we will not be boxed into a strawman target. (ATTN FP, CD etc, notice the act of identifying WHY this is a weakened strawman assertion prone to be knocked over.) >>While this seemed like a good foundation roughly 100 years ago, when empiricism was conceived,>> 19: Not relevant to what is on the table. >> it turns out that sense impressions are actually complex things that are themselves, well, not observed. Right?>> 20: Yes, our sense impressions and extensions thereof via instruments and computing machines etc, are complex. However, does that not bring to bear here self-referentiality? 21: So, is this claim also an empirically founded claim, now tagged as subtly suspect and to be discredited itself? 22: We see here already, a logical criterion, one that points to self referential self defeat, the base for any objection rooted on complexity of observation is undermined. >>The idea that our senses relay accurate information to us>> 23: Are we, the hoi polloi, to be swept away with the dismissal "idea" -- translating to a euphemism for "[suspect] notion"? Do you see here how selectively hyperskeptical elitism has crept in? 24: And how if we remove that invited sneer, we are back at self referential self defeat crouching at the door? >> depends on a long chain>> 25: Not at all, just experience of reliability, even with limitations such as pitch vs frequency, colour and shape distortion, etc etc. The rejection of the general soundness of the confident reliance on one's body of personal experience and that of our race, leads to self-defeat. 26: We cannot even rely on our eyes to reasonably reliably perceive the text before us! Privileging hyperskepticism goes a fatal step too far. >> of hard to vary>> 27: Hard to vary is an evasive circumlocution for, warrant, insofar as it has any credibility. >> explanatory theories. >> 28: The hyperskeptical elitism, again. No, no elaborate theorising is required, just experience based confidence, the fact of common sense induction, particularly the abduction of trust in our senses, basic cognitive powers and common good sense. >>IOW, this is what I mean when I say “observations are theory laden.”>> 29: Instead, observations MAY be theory laden, using theory in the sense of abstract schema of the sciences. For instance, 30: my glasses embed optical theories up to aspherical lens optics, my digital calipers embed a lot of electronics, as do my various multimeters and electronic oscilloscope, even a galvanometer based instrument such as the old AVOmeter embeds Ohm's law in its various scales, as well as depending on Hooke's law to calibrate linearity of deflection with torque. 31: For good cause, I trust the lot. 32: We here see how at both common sense and technological levels, it is vital to recognise the legitimacy of inductive reasoning and intuition, also, respect for the common person. >>So, empiricism>> 33: The strawman target is about to be knocked over. >> rules itself out>> 34: Actually, empiricism as given is itself a view that does not comport well with experience, we have knowledge that goes beyond experience, individual or collective. However, even Wikipedia tells us the matter is more complicated:
In philosophy, empiricism is an epistemological theory that holds that knowledge or justification comes only or primarily from sensory experience.[1] It is one of several views within epistemology, along with rationalism and skepticism. Empiricism emphasizes the central role of empirical evidence in the formation of ideas, rather than innate ideas or traditions.[2] However, empiricists may argue that traditions (or customs) arise due to relations of previous sensory experiences.[3] Historically, empiricism was associated with the "blank slate" concept (tabula rasa), according to which the human mind is "blank" at birth and develops its thoughts only through experience.[4] Empiricism in the philosophy of science emphasizes evidence, especially as discovered in experiments. It is a fundamental part of the scientific method that all hypotheses and theories must be tested against observations of the natural world rather than resting solely on a priori reasoning, intuition, or revelation.
35: Much knowledge is experiential, and that can and does include the miraculous or revelatory. In addition, what is a process of careful analysis but an experience, one that comes from our interior life not accesible to others but which we credit by recognising those who are as we are? And more. 36: While we are at it, genetically engineering hawthorns to bear strawberry guavas would be a change of core characteristics, thus of identity. Distinct identity remains as a valid recognition of the logic of being. 37: In that context, the law of excluded middle and non contradiction are corollaries. 38: Stable distinct identity would readily account for observable regularities, founding both laws of mathematics and laws of nature that would then be observable as strongly stamped patterns. >> by nature of being>> 39: Another self-referentiality case, you tried to dismiss identity but now appeal to nature. >> a contradiction. >> 40: Empiricism as defines was itself a strawman of empiricism, which in turn is factually inadequate rather than self contradictory. For example, what is the sense experiential, observational basis for the unique null set we refer to as { } ? From this we can build a core of Mathematics via von Neumann. 41: Overall, the proposed arguments to demolish an updated, property of the common people driven understanding of knowledge, fail. As shown here in skeletal outline. 42: At least, this is a substantial contribution and helps us see the trouble we are in as a civilisation, CR therefore helps us move the game forward. KFkairosfocus
March 27, 2023
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I don't know much Popper, but from what's being reported here about his views, I should give him some serious consideration. I agree with three major themes that have been ascribed to him: (1) scientific explanations are not based upon inductive generalizations, though inductive generalizations comprise most of our everyday empirical knowledge. (2) there are no theory-free observations, since any observation uses a conceptual framework that has been acquired as one's second nature; (3) the capacity for apprehending universals is a consequence of language, not a prior requirement for it. Hume's "problem of induction" is of independent philosophical interest, but I suspect that it relies upon his phenomenenalism (that what we immediately experience is our own sensory states or "qualia"). He conceives of sense-experience as a succession of sensory states. This makes experience something that we passively observe. not as something that we do or undergo. There is no room in his theory of experience for the role of feedback loops, wherein what we do in the world affects what we sense of the world, and conversely. Hume's theory of experience is not about what one does with one's body in the world; it is the passive and detached contemplation in which one notices the pattern of one's mental states. I do not mean to disparage Hume's theory of experience in characterizing it this way. It is a fascinating amalgam of deep mindfulness meditation and bourgeois male privilege. It seems plausible to me that he would have gotten much closer to the truth if he had observed his mental states as he prepared his own meals, washed his own clothes, and repaired his own furniture and housing. But, I think that bringing embodiment and environment into focus as components of cognition does show us how to avoid phenomenalism, and with that, the problem of induction (as Hume formulated it) goes away. That allows for induction to be a good-enough form of reasoning for everyday knowledge -- but I would agree with Popper that most everyday empirical knowledge is just inductive generalization, and not genuine explanation. Slightly off-topic, but related: I recently read Erik Larson's The Myth of Artificial Intelligence in which abduction -- or guessing -- is central to the account of why AGI is currently impossible. As Larson sees it, we know how to automate deductive reasoning: computers have been doing that since the 1950s. And the rise of machine learning has basically automated inductive reasoning. But what we don't know how to do is automate abductive reasoning. And since we don't know how to do that (and I suspect that it is actually impossible), AGI is impossible. (Larson claims that we don't know how to do it because we don't have a theory of abductive reasoning. I think that's not quite right: cognitive science actually does give us a theory of abductive reasoning, and it follow from that theory that abductive reasoning cannot be automated.) I mention Larson because he is, like Popper (?) and like Peirce, a champion of the importance of abductive reasoning for our ability to go beyond mere induction, and construct genuine explanations of phenomena -- explanations that allow us to solve problems. Put otherwise: if our common sense were based solely on inductive generalizations, then machine learning would be a sure-fire way to achieve AGI.PyrrhoManiac1
March 27, 2023
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CR, I respond on points: >>Knowledge is not justified, true belief.>> 1: No-one has sought to define knowledge as justified, true belief, as a clue, consider the import of "warrant" in this context, given Gettier, Plantinga and others. 2: This immediately suggests, with all due respect, you are misreading what is being raised. >>– For some a to justified by b, then b must be justified, by some c, which must be justified by some d, etc.>> 3: The Agrippa trilemma has responsible resolution. For, there are self evident truths, there are canons of logic, there are reasonable alternative worldview frames and there is comparative difficulties analysis across factual adequacy, coherence and explanatory power. Not to mention, that 4: there are different degrees of knowledge, a concept that belongs to the people, where warrant is objective, credible truth (thus, reliability). thus it includes that there is openness to correction, and belief means that at least one responsible person must accept. 5: That you raise this as a first claimed substantiation suggests that you have misframed us and the arguments above. >>– Knowledge is not true because all ideas are incomplete and contain errors to some degree.>> 6: Both hyperskeptical and self defeating, ending in, there is no knowledge of truth. 7: For instance, kindly tell us what is erroneous in 3 + 2 = 5, or ||| + || --> |||||. This counts as a sufficient counter example, and already, error exists and knowledge is possible etc are all true and undeniable on pain of immediate absurdity. 8: Indeed, the self-referential issue makes " Knowledge is not true because all ideas are incomplete and contain errors to some degree" instantly defeat itself: is this a member of "all"? Yes, so, extend the consequence you propose: "all ideas are incomplete and contain errors to some degree" -- instant self destruction. 9: We thus know it to be false. >>– Knowledge is not belief because it exists in brains, books and even the genomes of living things.>> 10: Knowledge-bearing information is recorded in brains, books and genomes etc, which is different from what knowledge is as a state of affairs of beings able to know, but who in many cases may be mistaken or ignorant instead. >>Everyone knows knowledge is justified true belief isn’t an argument.>> 11: There actually are people who do think so, but never mind. 12: This was not posed above, certainly not in the OP. Certainly, not by Willard and heirs, who I endorsed with one noted adjustment as assurance could be taken in ways that cannot be defended. >>Nor is we traditionaly define knowledge as justified true belief, etc.>> 13: There is a traditional position, which latterly led to an internalism vs externalism debate with Gettier as a key exhibit, and more contrived issues such as grue. It was a summary of a view, and the issue of being internally justified but objectively unwarranted opened up a new era. 14: The issue above is that knowledge is a property of the people, not an esoteric circle of highly refined hyperskeptics. 15: In that context, it is clear that a reasonable view becomes, knowledge is warranted, which captures any good hard to criticise has in it. There is good reason to hold it credibly true and reliable. And, it is thus know-ABLE. 16: What is know-ABLE, becomes known, thus knowledge, when someone takes it as such, i.e. believes it. (I here leave off the related but distinct issue of skills.) 17: As warrant comes in degrees, so does knowledge, in certain cases beyond possibility of error, in others no knower can deny without absurdity, in others, a weak everyday sense holds, where some things are open to correction but absent such are reliable enough to bet the farm. KFkairosfocus
March 27, 2023
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CR
Deutsch: “And since inductivism is false, empiricism must be as well."
Question: is Deutsch's theory about inductivism mere unjustifiable conjecture? Is it "fallible", like every other theory? Can we just ignore what he is saying, or are we dealing with a "metacontext"? And how about his claim that empiricism is false? Is it safe to ignore as unjustifiable conjecture, or should we pay attention because this is also a "metacontext"? Your advice, please.Origenes
March 27, 2023
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Already addressed. But, to again quote Deutsch...
“And since inductivism is false, empiricism must be as well. For if one cannot derive predictions from experience, one certainly cannot derive explanations. Discovering a new explanation is inherently an act of creativity. To interpret dots in the sky as white-hot, million-kilometre spheres, one must first have thought of the idea of such spheres. And then one must explain why they look small and cold and seem to move in lockstep around us and do not fall down. Such ideas do not create themselves, nor can they be mechanically derived from anything: they have to be guessed – after which they can be criticized and tested. To the extent that experiencing dots ‘writes’ something into our brains, it does not write explanations but only dots. Nor is nature a book: one could try to ‘read’ the dots in the sky for a lifetime – many lifetimes – without learning anything about what they really are.” “Historically, that is exactly what happened. For millennia, most careful observers of the sky believed that the stars were lights embedded in a hollow, rotating ‘celestial sphere’ centred on the Earth (or that they were holes in the sphere, through which the light of heaven shone). This geocentric – Earth-centred – theory of the universe seemed to have been directly derived from experience, and repeatedly confirmed: anyone who looked up could ‘directly observe’ the celestial sphere, and the stars maintaining their relative positions on it and being held up just as the theory predicts. ”
And let's not forget my response, here, which you have yet to respond to.
What do I mean by contradictory? Here’s a few examples…. Empiricism is the idea that all knowledge comes to us from the senses. While this seemed like a good foundation roughly 100 years ago, when empiricism was conceived, it turns out that sense impressions are actually complex things that are themselves, well, not observed. Right? The idea that our senses relay accurate information to us depends on a long chain of hard to vary explanatory theories. IOW, this is what I mean when I say “observations are theory laden.” So, empiricism rules itself out by nature of being a contradiction.
critical rationalist
March 27, 2023
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Alan Fox writes:
He may have done and I’ve missed it but I doubt he would have received the courtesy to which he thinks himself entitled and demands here while dishing out ad homs to critics with gay abandon.
You are walking on thin ice raising the subject of homosexuality on this site. :)Ford Prefect
March 27, 2023
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Theory aways comes first.
You are a Popperian through and through. Dykes also refutes this weird idea:
Popper’s notion that “theories come before observation” [TSIB 134] perhaps needs more detail to make it explicit. Popper spelled it out clearly a second time in The Self and Its Brain: “Our senses should be regarded as auxiliaries to our brain. The brain in turn is programmed to select a fitting and relevant model (or theory or hypothesis) of our environment, as we move along, to be interpreted by the mind” [TSIB 91]. Again: “All observations (and even more all experiments) are theory impregnated: they are interpretations in the light of theories. We observe only what our problems, our biological situation, our interests, our expectations, and our action programmes, make relevant. Just as our observational instruments are based upon theories, so are our very sense organs without which we cannot observe” [TSIB 134]. These statements echo Popper’s blunt observation in Unended Quest that “there is no such thing as an unprejudiced observation” [UNQ 51]. They are reminiscent of something he wrote long before in The Poverty of Historicism: “neither the dryness nor the remoteness of a topic of natural science prevent partiality and self-interest from interfering with the individual scientist’s beliefs... if we had to depend on his detachment, science, even natural science, would be quite impossible” [POH 155]. The implications of all this for objectivity appear drastic. By saying that “theories come before observations”, is Popper asking us to accept that the heliocentric theory came before observation of perturbations in planetary orbits? Or that insect-eating plants were surmised before Darwin happened to examine sundews? Or that we start thinking about things before having any awareness of them? Such questions are admittedly bizarre but, prima facie, they do seem to be legitimate reactions to equally bizarre pronouncements. This was not the only time Popper appeared to see things back to front. Discussing the evolution of the human brain, he wrote about “the emerging human language which created the selection pressure under which the cerebral cortex emerged, and with it the human consciousness of self” [TSIB 30]. This seems to be a development of an earlier ‘conjecture’ that: “it is human language which is responsible for the peculiarities of man” [UNQ 140].71 These idiosyncratic points of view may be due to Popper’s affection for Lamarck [e.g. RASC 94, TSIB 425]. However, I doubt very much if Lamarck would have believed that human language, which is based on concepts, on universals, could have developed prior to that distinctive ‘peculiarity of man’ — his conceptual faculty — which actually produces concepts. Although bold indeed, such a conjecture’ would do more than put the cart before the horse: it would put the cart before the caveman and the horse before the dinosaur.
http://nicholasdykes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/philn037.pdfOrigenes
March 27, 2023
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