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News-watch: yet another incident of mass violence in FL, USA — where is this nihilism coming from?

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First, condolences and prayers for victims and families.

Daily Mail has a useful header that seems to capture key themes to ponder as we head into the weekend:

These was of course — within minutes — the usual talking point exchange on firearms, gun-free [= target-rich] zones, mental illness and effects of certain antidepressants, affiliations (Antifa and Islamism have also been suggested and there is a picture of him in a MAGA hat) and the like, etc.

U/D: My email inbox has a link to Townhall that points to a claim that “Leon County law enforcement sources told the Tallahassee Democrat that they could not find information linking Cruz, 19, to the Republic of Florida Militia, as first reported by the group’s self-proclaimed leader Jordan Jereb.” So, that one is a bit of a mystery.

My own view is that there need to be mental illness facilities that can effectively detain potentially violent inmates, that we do need to look at effects of drugs and that schools, organisations and public meetings need oversight by an organised, armed civilian marshal corps. Including churches. I have even suggested the Tavor in semi-automatic form and a 6.5 mm Grendel loading, and would add 9 mm pistols where such would be a better fit. That coach should never have been forced to try to use his body as a shield. Obviously, one guard was not enough. Where, too, four or five people (at least two armed), would credibly be able to take down such a would-be shooter in a case where “when seconds count, the police are minutes away.”

While I am at it, if he was repeatedly reported (including to the FBI), was expelled and in a school for the troubled, how was he able to organise and carry out such an attack?

However, we need more.

What is it that is eating out our civilisation and is sending the message to those on the fringes that instead of cherishing one’s neighbour one can view and treat one’s neighbour as little more than a target. Perhaps, all too literally.

Let me add a remark by Pat Buchanan, which points to a further factor:

>>While this massacre may be a product of mental illness, it is surely a product of moral depravity. For this was premeditated and plotted, done in copycat style to the mass killings to which this country has become all too accustomed.

Nikolas Cruz thought this through. He knew it was Valentine’s Day. He brought his fully loaded AR-15 with extra magazines and smoke grenades to the school that had expelled him. He set off a fire alarm, knowing it would bring students rushing into crowded halls where they would be easy to kill. He then escaped by mixing in with fleeing students.

The first ingredient, then, was an icy indifference toward human life and a willingness to slaughter former fellow students to deliver payback for whatever it was Cruz believed had been done to him at Douglas High.

In his case, the conscience was dead, or was buried beneath hatred, rage or resentment at those succeeding where he had failed. He had been rejected, cast aside, expelled. This would be his revenge, and it would be something for Douglas High and the nation to see – and never forget.

Indeed, it seems a common denominator of the atrocities to which we have been witness in recent years is that the perpetrators are nobodies who wish to die as somebodies.

If a sense of grievance against those perceived to have injured them is the goad that drives misfits like Cruz to mass murder, the magnet that draws them to it is infamy. Infamy is their shortcut to immortality.>>

Maybe, we need to ponder a point raised by Bryan, in the 1920’s — though it will doubtless excite ire in some quarters:

>>Darwinism leads to a denial of God. Nietzsche carried Darwinism to its logical conclusion and it made him the most extreme of anti-Christians . . . . As the [First World] war [of 1914 – 1918] progressed I [William Jennings Bryan was from 1913 – 1915 the 41st US Secretary of State, under President Wilson] became more and more impressed with the conviction that the German propa-ganda rested upon a materialistic foundation. I se-cured the writings of Nietzsche and found in them a defense, made in advance, of all the cruelties and atrocities practiced by the militarists of Germany. [It didn’t start with the Nazis!] Nietzsche tried to substitute the worship of the “Su-perman” for the worship of God. He not only re-jected the Creator, but he rejected all moral standards. He praised war and eulogized hatred because it led to war. He denounced sympathy and pity as attributes unworthy of man. He believed that the teachings of Christ made degenerates and, logical to the end, he regarded Democracy as the refuge of weaklings. He saw in man nothing but an animal and in that animal the highest virtue he recognized was “The Will to Power”—a will which should know no let or hin-drance, no restraint or limitation . . . . His philosophy, if it is worthy the name of philos-ophy, is the ripened fruit of Darwinism — and a tree is known by its fruit . . . .

The corroding influence of Darwinism has spread as the doctrine has been increasingly accepted. In the American preface to “The Glass of Fashion” these words are to be found: “Darwinism not only justifies the sensualist at the trough and Fashion at her glass; it justifies Prussianism at the cannon’s mouth and Bol-shevism at the prison-door. If Darwinism be true, if Mind is to be driven out of the universe and accident accepted as a sufficient cause for all the majesty and glory of physical nature, then there is no crime or vio-lence, however abominable in its circumstances and however cruel in its execution, which cannot be justi-fied by success, and no triviality, no absurdity of Fash-ion which deserves a censure: more — there is no act of disinterested love and tenderness, no deed of self- sac-rifice and mercy, no aspiration after beauty and excel-lence, for which a single reason can be adduced in logic.” [The Menace of Darwinism, pp. 52 – 54. Emphases and explanatory parentheses added.]>>

Is this one root of what we are seeing? This is worth pondering, too. For, nihilism, surely, is not distilling itself out of thin air and imposing itself on us. END

PS: As it has come up, some BBC numbers, c 2007 when policy on holding the 50 rounds at home changed:

PPS: Here is an illustration on how Israeli Teachers protect their charges in loco parentis:

Are Israeli Teachers armed? Notice two adults, one on obvious overwatch for an outing carrying an instantly recognisable US WW2 issue/era M1 carbine [not a likely equipment for a security guard or a soldier on active duty], the other interacting more closely with the children. And of course we do not know if the second adult has a concealed weapon. This image is of course scoffed at, but it makes the point — armed overwatch, some open, some not.
Comments
MB, actually, quite a number of mass-shootings [at or trending to 3+ victims] in progress HAVE been stopped by civilians on scene or coming on scene. The shooting up of that church stopped when the shooter was confronted by an NRA instructor who was a neighbour showing up barefoot IIRC, with his own AR-15. After an exchange, the shooter took flight, and the citizen got in a passing car and gave chase. A college shooting was ended by a fellow student who pulled a gun from his vehicle and came back to stop the shooter. And there are many more. Garland TX is a case of off duty police as guards, where the FBI etc seemed to be aware ahead but did not intervene. If the off duty officer from Coral Springs had had a gun on him, he would have been able to do the like. The four deputies from Broward who did not intervene failed, failed badly. But then, they may have been put on explicit or implicit stand-down, we will see. However, we have seen cases where it is a reasonable inference that those who take action as police or as citizens may well be subjected to media lynchings that pay scant regard to facts. KF PS: What effect do you think would come from essentially the population coming under military discipline, starting in the school system where they are taught proper firearms use and linked responsibility, similar to the classic Swiss system? Sports are not doing the disciplined fair play training job anymore, it seems. (Where obviously, the sort of problem child as young Cruz manifestly was for years, should have been flagged for far more serious early intervention. I bet the radical lawyers, radicalised educators, radicalised social and psychological services and activist journalists as well as agit prop operators have worked together to undermine such serious intervention before things run totally out of control. I further bet that this aspect will NEVER become part of the 24/7 crisis coverage. And then people dismiss that there is an obvious agenda and trend of corrosion leading to the edge of a cliff at work!)kairosfocus
February 25, 2018
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Molson Bleu @ 124
We were talking about mass shootings. How many mass shootings have been stopped by armed citizens?
Well, when they're stopped they aren't mass shootings, now are they. The mass shootings occur in gun free zones, where armed citizens are prohibited and police are minutes away, by which time it became a mass shooting.Charles
February 24, 2018
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“I see several reports like this, pretty much any day.” We were talking about mass shootings. How many mass shootings have been stopped by armed citizens?Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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Cruz was an armed citizen.
Proof that the system needs an overhaul and updating. Two points failed- 1 that he was able to purchase weapons and 2 that he slipped right through even though the authorities were warned. Another issue is school security and how Cruz gained access. If he just walked in then that is a big issue. Our schools have all exits and entrances locked to the outside. People have to be buzzed in.ET
February 24, 2018
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If only pacifists resided in Florida, would we have to worry about gun control? How about USA? How about beyond USA? Guns don't kill people... It's the people who pull the trigger... What is wrong with this world? Who makes the people to hate others to pull the trigger?J-Mac
February 24, 2018
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In KF’s solutiion, do you really think that everyone will be allowed to own and carry guns, or only those approved by the state to do so?
OK wait- who do you think should decide who can and who cannot own a gun? I definitely don't want everyone armed. I would love to see written exams and shooting tests to go along with background and mental health checks.ET
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu: Here's another news report of successful defensive gun use: Charges brought against home-invasion suspects foiled by armed Hemet homeowners PUBLISHED: February 20, 2018
The couple — Jeff Sagmeister, 71, and his wife of 32 years, Von, 75 — confronted the intruder, who became physically aggressive, striking both of the victims, Hemet police Lt. Eddie Pust alleged. He said the man and his wife both armed themselves with guns and opened fire on Wallace, who was hit at least twice and ran out of the home.
Good Samaritan helps Swansboro officer during struggle Monday Feb 19, 2018
Newport resident John Babbie was driving through Swansboro on N.C. 24 when he spotted a Swanboro patrol car pulled in behind a U-Haul box truck then noticed two men wrestling in the roadside ditch just west of the Swansboro Belgrade intersection. Babbie, who left his eight-year job as a correctional sergeant with the N.C. Department of Public Safety last November for a career in automotive sale, parked behind the patrol car and emerged from his vehicle brandishing his .40-caliber Smith and Wesson towards the man engaged with the officer. “I gave the command: Stop resisting, stop resisting” Babbie told The Daily News. “I then told him to roll on your belly. When he saw the barrel of my gun, he complied. I’m glad nothing bad happened,” Babbie said.
I see several reports like this, pretty much any day.Charles
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu @ 118:
No. Toronto has Toronto’s gangs. And they are active.
Toronto and Chicago are of comparable size and population, but Chicago has over twice as many gangs as does Toronto. Chicago's gang activity is twice as intense as Toronto's. That is what is meant by Toronto doesn't have Chicago's gangs.
So, how many mass shootings did France have that year? I have never said that mass shootings don’t occur elsewhere. Just that they do not occur with the sickening frequency that they do here.
France had 4 mass shootings in 2015, 2 in 2012, total casualties approximtely 540. What you keep wanting to ignore is that France, an entire country has gun control applied country-wide, not just a city, as you advocate, and it didn't stop 540 casualties in 6 mass shootings in 2 years. You keep pretending if only gun control were imposed broadly enough, it would work. France imposes it on the entire country and it doesn't work.
Theatres, summer camps, shopping malls, arcades, amusement parks, train stations, subways, the Washington Mall, festivals, bake sales, Church picnics, and so on.
Those are mostly public venues where concealed carry is permitted. Owners of theaters and resturants may designate their properties as "gun free", but patronage is optional, unlike schools where defenseless children are required to be present, staked out like goats on a killing field. Yet, increasingly schools are permitting teachers to carry concealed.
But if guns are more difficult to obtain, the same will be true for criminals.
No, just making guns more difficult to obtain legally, won't make them more difficult to obtain illegally. You keep ignoring that criminals don't abide by the laws you want to impose on everyone else.
How often did that happen last year? I would love to see the reports on this. Or is this just unwarranted extrapolation from a couple incidents?
Last year, idunno. But here's a study from 1995: Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun
"The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' firsthand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs [Defensive Gun Use] of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns." Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun, 86 J. Crim. L. & Criminology 150 (1995) p. 164
So 2.5 million successful gun defenses per year, in 1995. I'm sure the numbers in 2017 were higher, simply by virtue of increased gun ownership and violent crime. But don't expect to see that reported on CNN, they'd rather you didn't know. Then again, you didn't really want to know either, did you.Charles
February 24, 2018
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“We have a constitutional provision against unreasonable searches, as you seem unaware.” So does Canada. “Besides, Chicago is a sanctuary city.” Toronto declared itself a sanctuary city in 2013 (amazing what you can find on Google). “and Toronto doesn’t have Chicago’s gangs – a point you willfully, repeatedly ignore.” No. Toronto has Toronto’s gangs. And they are active. “You keep insisting if only gun control were implemented country-wide it would work, and yet, that hasn’t stopped the repeated mass shootings experienced in Europe, such as the Bataclan massacre in France: 153 innocent people died, defenseless, as you would have us all.” So, how many mass shootings did France have that year? I have never said that mass shootings don’t occur elsewhere. Just that they do not occur with the sickening frequency that they do here. “Gun control will never stop gun violence because criminals will always ignore gun control laws,...” But if guns are more difficult to obtain, the same will be true for criminals. “Shift the shooters’ focus to, well, let’s see now, there aren’t any more soft targets after schools, are there.” Theatres, summer camps, shopping malls, arcades, amusement parks, train stations, subways, the Washington Mall, festivals, bake sales, Church picnics, and so on. “I’d rather my kids were schooled in an armed camp, than be returned home in body bags, just so you can virtue-signal.” I would rather my kids not experience either. “That’s what happens in most other venues visited by mass shooters – they get shot by good guys before they make mass headlines.” How often did that happen last year? I would love to see the reports on this. Or is this just unwarranted extrapolation from a couple incidents? “An armed American is a citizen. An unarmed American is a subject, if not a victim.” Cruz was an armed citizen.Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu:
Chicago May have gun control but I don’t recall anyone being searched when they cross into Chicago.
We have a constitutional provision against unreasonable searches, as you seem unaware. Besides, Chicago is a sanctuary city. Chicago willfully harbors law breakers. But neither is anyone searched when they cross into Toronto from outlying Canadian locales, and Toronto doesn't have Chicago's gangs - a point you willfully, repeatedly ignore.
Gun control cannot work on a city by city basis, or even on a state specific basis, except maybe Hawaii and Alaska.
You keep insisting if only gun control were implemented country-wide it would work, and yet, that hasn't stopped the repeated mass shootings experienced in Europe, such as the Bataclan massacre in France: 153 innocent people died, defenseless, as you would have us all. Gun control will never stop gun violence because criminals will always ignore gun control laws, and now even police refuse to engage illegal shooters and the FBI ignores tips of criminal behavior. But you know all that. You just don't care how many innocents must die at the hands of armed criminals to slake your thirst for even more control of law-abiding defenseless citizens.
Israel’s problems were completely different than ours.
But hardening their soft targets, worked regardless, didn't it. It doesn't matter what is going thru the mind of the attacker at the moment they get shot, as long as they get shot. Shooting the attacker(s) still eliminates the threat, regardless of their motive. That's what Israeli methods demonstrate. And their schools aren't getting shot up anymore like ours.
Hardening soft targets only has the effect of shifting the shootings to other soft targets, often to areas of congregation outside the secure zone of hardened targets.
Well Duh!!! That is the whole point. Instead of inviting shooters into gun-free schools, harden the schools. Shift the shooters' focus to, well, let's see now, there aren't any more soft targets after schools, are there. Even church ladies pack heat these days. So the shooters are just going to have to face an armed citizenry, poor things.
If we do as KF suggests, to be effective it would turn us into an armed camp, little different than a police state.
I'd rather my kids were schooled in an armed camp, than be returned home in body bags, just so you can virtue-signal. I have no problem with an armed camp or bad guys getting shot and their stuff broken. You have no clue just how armed our camp already is, because we're mostly carrying concealed and defending our homes. You're ignoring the number of times good guys with guns take out bad guys before they get started. You only become aware when the unarmed camps (like schools) get shot up by bad guys with guns because there weren't any armed good guys to stop them. But you complain when parents want the bad guys to be shot ASAP, before they do any damage. Wouldn't it be preferable to have a news report that said: "Armed teacher shot Cruz before Cruz could raise his weapon". That's what happens in most other venues visited by mass shooters - they get shot by good guys before they make mass headlines. Even the Las Vegas shooter would have been taken out if the hotel security had been armed - but they don't want to offend their unarmed guests, better the concert-goers next door get shot up instead.
We would be giving up all sorts of freedom so that Billy-Bob can keep his gun. That’s not the country I want to live in.
Actually, you've already insisted that law-abiding gun owners give up their right to not be searched unreasonably and give up their right to bear arms in self-defense, all so "DeShauntay" can shoot up his neigborhood or school without fear of being shot back. That's the country your virtue-signalling hand-wringing has created. You'd rather US citizens were entirely unarmed and the Bataclan massacre happened in the US instead.
In KF’s solutiion, do you really think that everyone will be allowed to own and carry guns, or only those approved by the state to do so? That sounds like a police state to me.
lol! In a police state only the government thugs (formerly criminals now running the "government") will have guns (see Venezuela, Iran, Sudan, etc.) An armed American is a citizen. An unarmed American is a subject, if not a victim.Charles
February 24, 2018
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MB, If you want to know, I favour a version on the Swiss model. Yes, not everyone should be armed in the common defence; there are those who are incapacitated and those who show themselves unworthy or incapable. When the state finds it a good thing to be able to sell older artillery pieces to community-level people beyond active enlistment age who intend to man strong-points themselves, that will be a clear sign that the balance is right. Ask yourself why both the Kaiser and Herr Schicklegruber thought twice about invading Switzerland. BTW, this also means essentially everyone is under military discipline and misuse of arms would be essentially an offence against national security. Every organisation and every public space should be under armed overwatch by citizen-marshals; I favour the Tavor in semiauto, 6.5 mm Grendel for general work, and 9 x 19 mm for close range work, any one of the good semiauto pistols, along with the HK MP5 or the like. For longer range, I think the 6.5 mm Creedmoor [the Grendel's big brother] sounds like a good general-purpose round. For other things, relevant specialist rounds. No, I don't really like 5.56 x 45 mm. Where, if you imagine our civilisation is not under siege then you have not availed yourself of the opportunity to study say, of what event was 01:09:11 the 318th anniversary less one day or what "Al Andaluz" means, or what civilisation/ settlement jihad means or what is spoken of as The Project i/l/o captured documents. That's before we get to the significance of widespread gangs, drug funded warlordism, and the rise of the sort of low-grade 4th generation war that is embedded in institutions, is in the media and is increasingly on our streets. KFkairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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“NOTE- a police state can only exist once you disarm the people.” In KF’s solutiion, do you really think that everyone will be allowed to own and carry guns, or only those approved by the state to do so? That sounds like a police state to me.Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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Norway is nice. They ski and shoot. New event for the winter Olympics- ski jump skeet shooting. (NOTE- a police state can only exist once you disarm the people)ET
February 24, 2018
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Israel’s problems were completely different than ours. They were effectively in a civil war and the acts of violence were largely of a political and organized nature. They are also surrounded by people hostile to them. The US is not surrounded by potential enemies, and most of our mass shootings are not politically motivated. Or, if they are, they are the result of emulation, not of organizational planning. Hardening soft targets only has the effect of shifting the shootings to other soft targets, often to areas of congregation outside the secure zone of hardened targets. If we do as KF suggests, to be effective it would turn us into an armed camp, little different than a police state. We would be giving up all sorts of freedom so that Billy-Bob can keep his gun. That’s not the country I want to live in.Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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“Because Chicago has the strictest gun control laws in the country, but no gang control.” Chicago May have gun control but I don’t recall anyone being searched when they cross into Chicago. Gun control cannot work on a city by city basis, or even on a state specific basis, except maybe Hawaii and Alaska.Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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kairosfocus @ 110
Of course, Israel HAD such a problem, 40+ years ago. They got guards and they armed teachers, who will have gone through military training as the Israeli military is modelled on the Swiss one in key parts. The problem went away because the soft targets were hardened.
Precisely. Soft targets were hardened.
there is clear documentation of major policing failures sufficient to bring under question the notion that the police will protect. That, all the way up to the FBI.
Yes. When seconds count, law enforcement may not even engage, and it all depends on how much ammo the shooter brought. Molson Bleu, are you paying attention? School's in session.Charles
February 24, 2018
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Charles:
Israel doesn’t have a mass shooting problem in their schools at all, even being the target of several terrorist groups and countries. But you don’t want to have that argument either, do you
Of course, Israel HAD such a problem, 40+ years ago. They got guards and they armed teachers, who will have gone through military training as the Israeli military is modelled on the Swiss one in key parts. The problem went away because the soft targets were hardened. There was the shooting on the highways, so fences and walls in main threat areas. Huge media outcry which wasn't there when people on roads were being shot. But, highway sniping is gone. Walk-in suicide bombings, a major campaign. Guards, protective cordons and more. Problem eventually ran out of steam. And so forth. I noted above:
There are many incidents of mass-murder in various jurisdictions across our civilisation, some with firearms, others with utility knives used to hijack aircraft, others with knives, some with vehicles. Some, with bombs. Next door to the USA there is a major state with much more restrictive firearms laws, which has a huge drugs-linked mass murdering war that has been ongoing for years. Chicago notoriously has restrictive firearms laws, but has a huge murder rate tied to a street gangs culture fuelled by connexions to a drugs-influenced subculture. That gives me pause when I see the sort of strong link to psycho-active drugs use for mental illnesses that is strongly correlated with the current matter. As news pointed out to you, there has been at least one recent incident of mass murder in schools in Canada, and a few years back there was an attempted attack on Parliament. The issue is not firearms as such, but what is motivating people to such attacks. Terrorism, drugs-smuggling gangs, gangs in a drugs-influenced region, a surge of culturally-conditioned running amok, and the like. All are connected to undermining the basic premise of deep respect for life and for the lawful civil peace of justice; where also, due to cultural memory, a society that is undermining the underpinnings for moral self-government and is opening the way for amorality, nihilism and out of control narcissism may spend a long time eating up the cultural capital of a former order of life. But, one funeral at a time, one moral breakdown at a time, something is being eroded. Once it is gone, the culture shifts decisively, and then to get back to something sensible is going to be a desperate and uncertain struggle. Already, we live in a world where the number one evil is that in 40+ years, we have slaughtered 800+ millions of posterity in the womb, utterly corrupting mindsets, medicine, nursing, education, media, and law as well as government. If you sow dragons’ teeth, expect a bitter harvest. The USA is particularly prone as it is a relatively non-traditional society, so the resistance to destructive trend is weaker than in other parts of our civilisation. Ask the Russians about what happened when they put official badges on nihilistic mass-murderers and called them the secret state police.
I also note, there is clear documentation of major policing failures sufficient to bring under question the notion that the police will protect. That, all the way up to the FBI. Something is very wrong. There is a threat and more threats gather on the horizon. Who will act promptly and effectively? Or, will we face Machiavelli's point that political disorders are like hectic fever. At first, hard to diagnose but curable. But if at length there is no prompt action, when the problem is obvious to all, it is too late to cure. So, the question is our prudence and willingness to act promptly and effectively rather than becoming dupes, face cards and pawns in someone's agit prop agenda. KFkairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu @ 108
Toronto is a big city. Why don’t they have a similar level of gun violence as Chicago?
Because Chicago has the strictest gun control laws in the country, but no gang control.Charles
February 24, 2018
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“one tenth of the people.” That’s why I used the word ‘proportionate’. If 1/10 the population was the answer, we would expect 30-40 mass shootings last year. Not one. Toronto is a big city. Why don’t they have a similar level of gun violence as Chicago?Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu @ 92
The question has still not been answered. Why does no other western country have the problem with mass shootings that we do.
Molson Bleu @ 105
does any other western country have more mass shootings per year than days in the year? That is what I mean by a problem. It is persistent, with no end in sight.
No, that's you moving the goal posts attempting to win a different argument. Regardless, the US doesn't have more than 365 mass shootings per year, even counting Chicago gang violence. So you still have no point.
It is persistent, with no end in sight.
Israel doesn't have a mass shooting problem in their schools at all, even being the target of several terrorist groups and countries. But you don't want to have that argument either, do you. No, you'd rather wring your hands in anticipation of the next US school shooting, whereas the rest of us prefer instead to fill our hands and end the next shooter on sight.Charles
February 24, 2018
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Why do they not have a proportionate number of mass shootings?
one tenth of the people.ET
February 24, 2018
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“You mean like “December 13, 2011, 6 killed, 125 injured in Liege” or “November 13, 2015 153 Dead In Paris Shootings” or “July 22, 2016 9 killed, 16 injured in Munich shootings”? You mean those mass shootings? (and there are many more examples).” Although each one is tragic, does any other western country have more mass shootings per year than days in the year? That is what I mean by a problem. It is persistent, with no end in sight. As News rightly pointed out, Canada had one mass shooting last year. And as far as I know, Canada has many of the same social and health issues that we do. And is exposed to the same movies, TV and video games as we are. And they have serious gang problems and drug problems. They also have a high per capita gun ownership. Why do they not have a proportionate number of mass shootings? I admit that it is not as simple as more strict gun control, but we would have to be completely blind to the evidence to conclude that gun control does not make a difference.Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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Which means that 80% of countries have lower rates of gun deaths than we do
That is OK with me. I don't want the USA to be like other countries. Again, gun violence does not bother me. It can be dealt with without changing gun laws.ET
February 24, 2018
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“31st- we rank 31st in the world when it comes to gun violence deaths.” Which means that 80% of countries have lower rates of gun deaths than we do. If you want to be counted amongst the worst 20%, that is your choice.Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu @ 92
Why does no other western country have the problem with mass shootings that we do.
You mean like "December 13, 2011, 6 killed, 125 injured in Liege" or "November 13, 2015 153 Dead In Paris Shootings" or "July 22, 2016 9 killed, 16 injured in Munich shootings"? You mean those mass shootings? (and there are many more examples). But in America we shoot back when permitted, and that's what you see as the "problem", isn't it. Also in America, liberals have staked out our kids like goats on a killing field in gun-free school-zones. But you don't see that as a problem, do you. You only see defending those kids with guns against gunmen as a "problem". Oddly, Israeli schools don't have the "problem" of school shootings. Why might that be?Charles
February 24, 2018
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Molson Bleu needs to read the following: Gun Violence: How The U.S. Compares With Other Countries 31st- we rank 31st in the world when it comes to gun violence deaths.ET
February 24, 2018
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Well I know that police officers are also African Americans. I also know that if teachers were allowed to carry firearms the police would know about it. And finally I know that police could distinguish between a student and a teacher.
Why don’t you ask that of the students and family of the Florida school, or Sandy Hook, or Columbine, or the families of the Vegas shooting victims, or the families of any of the hundreds of mass shootings that occur here every year.
When they have the majority you will have a point. We have the ways and means to protect schools. That is what we need to focus on. And until abortions are eradicated I don't care about gun violence- seriously. Until we stop the unwarranted killing of the unborn we have no place to talk about guns.ET
February 24, 2018
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“Only whiners and losers think that would be a problem.” Only those completely ignorant of racism in America would make such a stupid statement. “If you asked the people of the USA if they wanted to be more like some other country what do you think the result would be?” Why don’t you ask that of the students and family of the Florida school, or Sandy Hook, or Columbine, or the families of the Vegas shooting victims, or the families of any of the hundreds of mass shootings that occur here every year. I am not suggesting that we become Canada, or Australia, or Belgium. But these countries obviously have something that the US doesn’t that makes them less prone to this epidemic of mass shootings. We adopt strategies and laws that work in other countries to resolve other issues. Why wouldn’t we do it in this case?Molson Bleu
February 24, 2018
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‘How would you like to be a black teacher holding a handgun when the police get there?’
Only whiners and losers think that would be a problem.
Why does no other western country have the problem with mass shootings that we do.
There could be many reasons. Why does no other western country have men on the moon, a very successful space program, the best military and everything else that makes us better than them? Why can't those countries be as successful as us? If you asked the people of the USA if they wanted to be more like some other country what do you think the result would be?ET
February 24, 2018
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MB, I suggest to you that you are largely repeating an already answered claim. There are many incidents of mass-murder in various jurisdictions across our civilisation, some with firearms, others with utility knives used to hijack aircraft, others with knives, some with vehicles. Some, with bombs. Next door to the USA there is a major state with much more restrictive firearms laws, which has a huge drugs-linked mass murdering war that has been ongoing for years. Chicago notoriously has restrictive firearms laws, but has a huge murder rate tied to a street gangs culture fuelled by connexions to a drugs-influenced subculture. That gives me pause when I see the sort of strong link to psycho-active drugs use for mental illnesses that is strongly correlated with the current matter. As news pointed out to you, there has been at least one recent incident of mass murder in schools in Canada, and a few years back there was an attempted attack on Parliament. The issue is not firearms as such, but what is motivating people to such attacks. Terrorism, drugs-smuggling gangs, gangs in a drugs-influenced region, a surge of culturally-conditioned running amok, and the like. All are connected to undermining the basic premise of deep respect for life and for the lawful civil peace of justice; where also, due to cultural memory, a society that is undermining the underpinnings for moral self-government and is opening the way for amorality, nihilism and out of control narcissism may spend a long time eating up the cultural capital of a former order of life. But, one funeral at a time, one moral breakdown at a time, something is being eroded. Once it is gone, the culture shifts decisively, and then to get back to something sensible is going to be a desperate and uncertain struggle. Already, we live in a world where the number one evil is that in 40+ years, we have slaughtered 800+ millions of posterity in the womb, utterly corrupting mindsets, medicine, nursing, education, media, and law as well as government. If you sow dragons' teeth, expect a bitter harvest. The USA is particularly prone as it is a relatively non-traditional society, so the resistance to destructive trend is weaker than in other parts of our civilisation. Ask the Russians about what happened when they put official badges on nihilistic mass-murderers and called them the secret state police. KFkairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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