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News-watch: yet another incident of mass violence in FL, USA — where is this nihilism coming from?

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First, condolences and prayers for victims and families.

Daily Mail has a useful header that seems to capture key themes to ponder as we head into the weekend:

These was of course — within minutes — the usual talking point exchange on firearms, gun-free [= target-rich] zones, mental illness and effects of certain antidepressants, affiliations (Antifa and Islamism have also been suggested and there is a picture of him in a MAGA hat) and the like, etc.

U/D: My email inbox has a link to Townhall that points to a claim that “Leon County law enforcement sources told the Tallahassee Democrat that they could not find information linking Cruz, 19, to the Republic of Florida Militia, as first reported by the group’s self-proclaimed leader Jordan Jereb.” So, that one is a bit of a mystery.

My own view is that there need to be mental illness facilities that can effectively detain potentially violent inmates, that we do need to look at effects of drugs and that schools, organisations and public meetings need oversight by an organised, armed civilian marshal corps. Including churches. I have even suggested the Tavor in semi-automatic form and a 6.5 mm Grendel loading, and would add 9 mm pistols where such would be a better fit. That coach should never have been forced to try to use his body as a shield. Obviously, one guard was not enough. Where, too, four or five people (at least two armed), would credibly be able to take down such a would-be shooter in a case where “when seconds count, the police are minutes away.”

While I am at it, if he was repeatedly reported (including to the FBI), was expelled and in a school for the troubled, how was he able to organise and carry out such an attack?

However, we need more.

What is it that is eating out our civilisation and is sending the message to those on the fringes that instead of cherishing one’s neighbour one can view and treat one’s neighbour as little more than a target. Perhaps, all too literally.

Let me add a remark by Pat Buchanan, which points to a further factor:

>>While this massacre may be a product of mental illness, it is surely a product of moral depravity. For this was premeditated and plotted, done in copycat style to the mass killings to which this country has become all too accustomed.

Nikolas Cruz thought this through. He knew it was Valentine’s Day. He brought his fully loaded AR-15 with extra magazines and smoke grenades to the school that had expelled him. He set off a fire alarm, knowing it would bring students rushing into crowded halls where they would be easy to kill. He then escaped by mixing in with fleeing students.

The first ingredient, then, was an icy indifference toward human life and a willingness to slaughter former fellow students to deliver payback for whatever it was Cruz believed had been done to him at Douglas High.

In his case, the conscience was dead, or was buried beneath hatred, rage or resentment at those succeeding where he had failed. He had been rejected, cast aside, expelled. This would be his revenge, and it would be something for Douglas High and the nation to see – and never forget.

Indeed, it seems a common denominator of the atrocities to which we have been witness in recent years is that the perpetrators are nobodies who wish to die as somebodies.

If a sense of grievance against those perceived to have injured them is the goad that drives misfits like Cruz to mass murder, the magnet that draws them to it is infamy. Infamy is their shortcut to immortality.>>

Maybe, we need to ponder a point raised by Bryan, in the 1920’s — though it will doubtless excite ire in some quarters:

>>Darwinism leads to a denial of God. Nietzsche carried Darwinism to its logical conclusion and it made him the most extreme of anti-Christians . . . . As the [First World] war [of 1914 – 1918] progressed I [William Jennings Bryan was from 1913 – 1915 the 41st US Secretary of State, under President Wilson] became more and more impressed with the conviction that the German propa-ganda rested upon a materialistic foundation. I se-cured the writings of Nietzsche and found in them a defense, made in advance, of all the cruelties and atrocities practiced by the militarists of Germany. [It didn’t start with the Nazis!] Nietzsche tried to substitute the worship of the “Su-perman” for the worship of God. He not only re-jected the Creator, but he rejected all moral standards. He praised war and eulogized hatred because it led to war. He denounced sympathy and pity as attributes unworthy of man. He believed that the teachings of Christ made degenerates and, logical to the end, he regarded Democracy as the refuge of weaklings. He saw in man nothing but an animal and in that animal the highest virtue he recognized was “The Will to Power”—a will which should know no let or hin-drance, no restraint or limitation . . . . His philosophy, if it is worthy the name of philos-ophy, is the ripened fruit of Darwinism — and a tree is known by its fruit . . . .

The corroding influence of Darwinism has spread as the doctrine has been increasingly accepted. In the American preface to “The Glass of Fashion” these words are to be found: “Darwinism not only justifies the sensualist at the trough and Fashion at her glass; it justifies Prussianism at the cannon’s mouth and Bol-shevism at the prison-door. If Darwinism be true, if Mind is to be driven out of the universe and accident accepted as a sufficient cause for all the majesty and glory of physical nature, then there is no crime or vio-lence, however abominable in its circumstances and however cruel in its execution, which cannot be justi-fied by success, and no triviality, no absurdity of Fash-ion which deserves a censure: more — there is no act of disinterested love and tenderness, no deed of self- sac-rifice and mercy, no aspiration after beauty and excel-lence, for which a single reason can be adduced in logic.” [The Menace of Darwinism, pp. 52 – 54. Emphases and explanatory parentheses added.]>>

Is this one root of what we are seeing? This is worth pondering, too. For, nihilism, surely, is not distilling itself out of thin air and imposing itself on us. END

PS: As it has come up, some BBC numbers, c 2007 when policy on holding the 50 rounds at home changed:

PPS: Here is an illustration on how Israeli Teachers protect their charges in loco parentis:

Are Israeli Teachers armed? Notice two adults, one on obvious overwatch for an outing carrying an instantly recognisable US WW2 issue/era M1 carbine [not a likely equipment for a security guard or a soldier on active duty], the other interacting more closely with the children. And of course we do not know if the second adult has a concealed weapon. This image is of course scoffed at, but it makes the point — armed overwatch, some open, some not.
Comments
F/N: Firearms facts for news reporters: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1F8h2-3JR-J8Rg7dVHMhEm5kZ7pBhK98NlES_sFH7S_U/edit#slide=id.p KFkairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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PPS: While CCW is only part way to what I have mentioned, I note that a free CCW course for teachers in Ohio has reportedly been over-subscribed.kairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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MB, I am a black man and I have been in the classroom or lecture hall. If I am a civilian marshal who can pull out and hold up or pin on a shield -- perhaps a hat or the like, that makes all the difference. So, the question can easily become, how would you like to be the black, plainclothes detective who just pulled out his firearm, when the uniformed police arrive. That such has not been an issue shows that the rhetoric in use is appeal to polarisation, not a serious objection. An organised marshal team on overwatch and acting as first responders available in seconds is something police would be notified of or aware of on arrival, I am presuming that communication equipment is there in place and so co-ordination is feasible. The circumstances are also generally going to be clear [teachers tend to be fairly obvious -- a good reason for uniforms and/or dress codes], reducing blue on blue casualties. KF PS: A shield logo by door-ways and gates notifying that this facility is under armed marshal overwatch would actually enhance security through the deterrence effect.kairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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Further developing: The school shooting case is looking more and more like policing failure in the large and in the narrow. By contrast with those who stayed outside [from one police dept] we see the intervention by officers from another:
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/02/23/stop-what-youre-doing-and-watch-this-coral-springs-pd-officer-talk-about-responding-to-the-stoneman-douglas-hs-attack/ >>Meet Sgt. Jeff Heinrich of the Coral Springs Police Department. Sgt. Heinrich was off duty and unarmed at the time of the attack last week at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., but he was on campus watering one of the school’s athletic fields in just shorts and a T-shirt. Sgt. Heinrich’s wife is an assistant athletic director at the school, his son is on the football team. When he heard the shots — remember now, he’s unarmed — he dropped the hose and ran toward the sound of gunfire where he immediately helped a student who was wounded. Minutes later, he met up with a Coral Springs PD SWAT team member who gave him a vest and a backup weapon and the two of them then entered the school to help clear classrooms. >>
FOUR "cowardly" officers from the Broward police but the Coral Springs ones are somehow consistently braver? I don't buy it. There was, more credibly, some sort of stand down order or order to hold in the perimeter then call in SWAT in force for the Broward police. This goes directly to, when seconds count, count on the police to be minutes away . . . in response of not physically. Where, no, flipping out a cell phone and dialling 911 or whatever is not making a difference if this sort of stand-down is likely. (And of course, demonising and scapegoating those who acted is not helping matters. We have to make up our minds about putting police officers in a no-win bind, as that is utterly ruinously counter-productive. Agit prop operatives, media amplifiers and sponsors of media lynch-mob show trials, I am looking straight at you.) This further underscores a need for an armed civilian marshals model, where places likely to be targetted by terrorists or those running amok are under armed over-watch by people with sufficient connexion to the community to respond reliably with the rescue reflex or the defense reflex. Yes, I include teachers and school administrators in that list. No, I don't buy the talking-point that oh, there is such institutional racism that we cannot trust teachers not to pull a gun and gun down minority students in cumulatively greater or at least significant numbers. If teachers are not a suitable population to filter, train and discipline with frankly martial-law accountability for their actions, our civilisation is in deeper peril than even I have been concerned over. Nor do I buy the seemingly deep-set emotive over-reaction to the mere word, guns much less the physical object. It is time for reality to hit home. The coach who sacrificed his life trying to shield students did not lack character or courage, he lacked equipment. The off duty officer lacked equipment, and still ran to help. Once spare equipment was given, he joined the intervention-team. Where, we are in a post-ban world where criminals, those planning sprees of murder and terrorists clearly have access to full auto weapons if they want them. Why that has not come in is likely, that full auto raises control and ammunition wasting issues. For that matter, something like a kukri or a machete or sword would be capable of nearly as much destruction. And such can literally be made from old car springs. Cars and trucks are potentially even more destructive -- as we saw on a French waterfront road. We are not in an ideal world where there is not a culturally conditioned syndrome of mass violence. KFkairosfocus
February 24, 2018
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I saw a recent comment on FB that is food for thought. ‘How would you like to be a black teacher holding a handgun when the police get there?’ The question has still not been answered. Why does no other western country have the problem with mass shootings that we do. Other countries have far more atheists, have mental health issues, have divorce and family breakups, have access to violent TV, movies and video games, gang problems, and the like. All of the things that are used to explain gun violence.Molson Bleu
February 23, 2018
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F/N: Reports indicate the School's Officer stayed outside the building during the incident, as did three other first-arriving officers. Several further officers arrived a little later and went in. Troubling. KFkairosfocus
February 23, 2018
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And in a disastrous effort to judge criminals by the color of their skin instead of the content of their character... Did the Progressive 'Broward County Solution' Cost 17 Student Lives?
[snip] Authorities agreed to treat twelve different misdemeanor offenses as school-related issues, not criminal ones. The results impressed the people who initiated the program. Arrests dropped from more than a thousand in 2011-2012 to less than four hundred just four years later. [snip] According to a source who spoke to the Miami Herald, Cruz had been suspended from Stoneman Douglas High for fighting and also for being caught with bullets in his backpack. This was apparently at least one of the reasons why administrators reportedly emailed a warning to teachers against allowing Cruz on the campus with a backpack. He was later expelled for reasons that have not been disclosed, but he was apparently not arrested. [snip]
School Shooting Was Outcome of Broward County School Board Policy – Now Local and National Politicians Weaponize Kids for Ideological Intents…
Broward County schools intentionally created polices from 2010 through 2016 that culminated in the 2018 mass school shooting in Parkland. We know this with great specificity because five years ago we warned Broward County Florida school board members this could happen.
Charles
February 20, 2018
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After Parkland massacre, the left wants to disarm ‘gun-clingers' yet ignores gun violence in black community
[snip]From Feb. 1 to Feb. 17, 2018, twenty Chicagoans, mostly black, were killed, and 65 others were shot and wounded. But you won't see the dead's faces and names 24-7 on CNN or MSNBC. The same mainstream media that cover school shootings involving mostly white suburban students with pictures and bios for days after the carnage give gunned down black youths, some caught in the crossfire of gang violence, a few seconds or so on a local or national news roundup. In the leftist media's perpetual war on Bible and gun "bitter clingers," the slaughter of blacks and Hispanics in Democrat-run cities, where guns are easily bought, stolen, traded, and sold neighbor to neighbor, doesn't serve their interests. Nothing illustrates the left's own agenda-driven, implicit bias more than choosing to ignore minorities killing each other in cities with strict gun control measures, while the mostly white victims at Columbine High, Virginia Tech, Roseburg Community College, Sandy Hook Elementary, and now Marjory Stoneman Douglas High receive daily, exhaustive coverage. After each suburban school shooting with a majority-white population, anti-2nd Amendment zealots are out in force within minutes, blaming guns for the murders. When gun violence takes the lives of countless blacks in urban areas, liberals claim "harsh criminal-justice policies in the age of mass incarceration" fuel the chaos. For blacks, guns don't kill; the system does. For whites, guns kill – not the psychotically disturbed individuals who use them.[snip]
Why does the government fail so often on existing gun control laws?
[snip]When Islamic terrorists commit violent acts, we are always lectured not to stereotype Muslims. But when violent mentally ill gun-owners commit atrocious acts, the immediate reaction is to stereotype gun-owners, who are mostly nonviolent, law-abiding citizens. We are always lectured about stereotyping and profiling, but somehow it is OK to blame all gun-owners for the irrational acts of a few. When an illegal alien kills someone, we hear very little about the crime from the media or Democrats because that is just so inconvenient to the agenda. When a person kills a person with a gun, we hear that one death is too many – so why don't we hear that when someone let out by a sanctuary city or state kills someone? Aren't all deaths and lives important?[snip]
Charles
February 19, 2018
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ET, but that means -- hunters, those who go swimming in holes cut in the ice and maybe ice fishermen and others like that aside -- the people will be cooped up in homes and buildings like fish in a barrel. All nicely bunched up as mass targets. Mix in "gun-free zones," and you have target rich environments where someone wishing to shoot fish in a barrel can fire away with no fear of having someone to shoot back until the police arrive, when is that on average, five minutes out? Even at two minutes out there is a lot of shooting that could be done. So, as guns can be had or smuggled there, it is not merely having guns or access to guns that drives the phenomenon of mass shootings. And, such access cannot be effectively prevented for one determined to act like this crazed youngster just did. Just ask the ghosts of victims of the Paris attack. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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It's too cold to go out shooting people in Minnesota.ET
February 18, 2018
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Reality Check: More Minnesotans Own Guns, Violent Crime Remains Low http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/reality-check-gun-permit-background-checks/
By Pat Kessler February 15, 2018 at 5:35 pm [snip] Minnesota’s violent crime rate hit a 50-year low in 2016, according to the FBI. And in 2017, the state set a new record for firearms background checks. [snip]
Charles
February 18, 2018
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PPS: The US Congress, 1776 and 1777 -- yes, they called to penitence and revival:
May 1776 [over the name of John Hancock, first signer of the US Declaration of Independence] : In times of impending calamity and distress; when the liberties of America are imminently endangered by the secret machinations and open assaults of an insidious and vindictive administration, it becomes the indispensable duty of these hitherto free and happy colonies, with true penitence of heart, and the most reverent devotion, publickly to acknowledge the over ruling providence of God; to confess and deplore our offences against him; and to supplicate his interposition for averting the threatened danger, and prospering our strenuous efforts in the cause of freedom, virtue, and posterity.. . . Desirous, at the same time, to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely, in all their lawful enterprizes, on his aid and direction, Do earnestly recommend, that Friday, the Seventeenth day of May next, be observed by the said colonies as a day of humiliation, fasting, and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and amendment of life, appease his righteous displeasure, and, through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain his pardon and forgiveness; humbly imploring his assistance to frustrate the cruel purposes of our unnatural enemies; . . . that it may please the Lord of Hosts, the God of Armies, to animate our officers and soldiers with invincible fortitude, to guard and protect them in the day of battle, and to crown the continental arms, by sea and land, with victory and success: Earnestly beseeching him to bless our civil rulers, and the representatives of the people, in their several assemblies and conventions; to preserve and strengthen their union, to inspire them with an ardent, disinterested love of their country; to give wisdom and stability to their counsels; and direct them to the most efficacious measures for establishing the rights of America on the most honourable and permanent basis—That he would be graciously pleased to bless all his people in these colonies with health and plenty, and grant that a spirit of incorruptible patriotism, and of pure undefiled religion, may universally prevail; and this continent be speedily restored to the blessings of peace and liberty, and enabled to transmit them inviolate to the latest posterity. And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and abstain from servile labour on the said day. December 1777: FORASMUCH as it is the indispensable Duty of all Men to adore the superintending Providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with Gratitude their Obligation to him for benefits received, and to implore such farther Blessings as they stand in Need of; And it having pleased him in his abundant Mercy not only to continue to us the innumerable Bounties of his common Providence, but also to smile upon us in the Prosecution of a just and necessary War, for the Defence and Establishment of our unalienable Rights and Liberties; particularly in that he hath been pleased in so great a Measure to prosper the Means used for the Support of our Troops and to crown our Arms with most signal success: It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive powers of these United States, to set apart THURSDAY, the eighteenth Day of December next, for Solemn Thanksgiving and Praise; That with one Heart and one Voice the good People may express the grateful Feelings of their Hearts, and consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor; and that together with their sincere Acknowledgments and Offerings, they may join the penitent Confession of their manifold Sins, whereby they had forfeited every Favour, and their humble and earnest Supplication that it may please GOD, through the Merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of Remembrance; That it may please him graciously to afford his Blessing on the Governments of these States respectively, and prosper the public Council of the whole; to inspire our Commanders both by Land and Sea, and all under them, with that Wisdom and Fortitude which may render them fit Instruments, under the Providence of Almighty GOD, to secure for these United States the greatest of all human blessings, INDEPENDENCE and PEACE; That it may please him to prosper the Trade and Manufactures of the People and the Labour of the Husbandman, that our Land may yet yield its Increase; To take Schools and Seminaries of Education, so necessary for cultivating the Principles of true Liberty, Virtue and Piety, under his nurturing Hand, and to prosper the Means of Religion for the promotion and enlargement of that Kingdom which consisteth “in Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.”[i.e. Cites Rom 14:9] [Source: Journals of the American Congress From 1774 to 1788 (Washington: Way and Gideon, 1823), Vol. I, pp. 286-287 & II, pp. 309 - 310.]
Notice, the grand statement structure of the US Articles of Confederation and the Constitution:
[Art. Confed, 1778:] And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that purpose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union . . . . In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy-Eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America. [Const 1787:] We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America . . . . [Main Body, Arts I - VII] . . . . Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names. . . . . [AMENDMENTS].
I'll bet these are not cited in history texts used in schools. Or, if mentioned they are going to be played down, dismissed or denigrated.kairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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Charles, note the latest update. Instructive, evil voices telling HOW to carry out the assault. The thief comes to steal, to kill and to destroy but I am come that they might have life to the full. A sign. KF PS: The NY State school prayer for children banned in the watershed US Supreme Court decision of 1962, and obviously the headlined step in a trend of radical secularisation that was gathering momentum:
Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country.
Think about the implications of reversing those sentiments, petitions and affections regarding God and self, family and parents, teachers and nation -- sounds chillingly familiar. Note by contrast, the preamble to the Constitution, on the blessings of liberty i/l/o the Congressional calls to prayer, penitence and thanksgiving, esp for May 1776, Dec 1777.kairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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U/D: It seems the shooter was listening to voices in his head. Fox:
Nikolas Cruz, who confessed to being the gunman in Wednesday's deadly Florida school shooting, according to his arrest affidavit, claimed to authorities that voices in his head told him how to carry out the ambush that left at least 17 people dead, ABC News reported. Law enforcement sources referred to the alleged voices as "demons," according to the outlet, and said Cruz, 19, claimed that they told him what he needed to do to launch the deadly assault.
Definitely demonic voices of evil counsel. Whether actual demons, we can leave for consideration. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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kairosfocus @ 81 I am often struck by the blatant hypocritical, cynical spin & elision employed against the NRA. When a LEO kills with a gun, the antagonists want the officer and his department scrutinized and prosecuted to fix blame & punishment. But when a mass-shooter kills with a gun, the antagonists fix blame on the weapon and want the NRA prosecuted. When the police shoot, they blame the police. But when some imbalanced or otherwise malevolent person shoots, they blame guns. And, yeah, something rent the fabric of the universe in 1963. An age of innocence ended and an age of sophisticated carnality began. Kennedy's assasination was one symptom, perhaps even a trigger. The differences between our culture in early to mid 1963 in music, fashion, school, politics, media, even global conflict markedly changed when compared to 1964 and later years. I know of only one entity capable of quietly orchestrating a shift across cultures, continents and populations, to sustain it for decades and then compound its effects all to the detriment of the human soul.Charles
February 18, 2018
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U/D: It seems a donation in kind of US$ 10,000 by the NRA to the JROTC programme at the high school is being turned into a guilt by association media talk-point in some quarters. The Blaze:
What the stories don’t mention is that NRA monies helped fund a program for the JROTC program the shooter was a member of when he attended high school. The NRA gave the school’s JROTC program more than $10,000 in non-cash assistance to help build its air-rifle team.
A linked story on the effect of the JROTC training speaks volumes:
Two 17-year-old students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School coupled their quick-thinking skills and Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps training to help save dozens of lives when Nikolas Cruz went on his shooting spree, killing 17 people, Wednesday in Parkland, Florida. Company commander Capt. Zackary Walls, 17, and Capt. Colton Haab, 17, told ABC News that they had decided to end their outdoor formations early that fateful day. They had taken their students back inside the school just moments before the fire alarm that sounded just as the massacre began. Walls and Haab took charge and herded students and teachers into a classroom after they heard gunshots ringing out nearby. The two JROTC captains used materials inside the room to create a barrier between them and the killer and prepared themselves for a fight.
Of course, it seems that those who promoted the first talking-point apparently did not provide the balance in the second. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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U/D: Developing, it seems (operative word) Cruz's step-aunt reports he was on medication, also his brother seems to have been committed to an institution on Friday. A list from Kupelian:
Columbine killer Eric Harris, 13 dead, 24 wounded – on Luvox. Patrick Purdy, 25, Stockton, California, five dead, 30 wounded – on Amitriptyline and Thorazine. Kip Kinkel, 15, Oregon, killed his parents plus two students and wounded 22 others – on Prozac and Ritalin. Laurie Dann, 31, Illinois, killed one second grader and injured six – on Anafranil and Lithium. Michael Carneal, 14, Kentucky, killed three and paralyzed one – on Ritalin. Jeff Weise, 16, Minnesota, nine dead, five wounded – on Prozac. Joseph T. Wesbecker, 47, killed nine, wounded 11 – on Prozac for one month. Kurt Danysh, 18, Pennsylvania, on Prozac for two weeks. He shot and killed his father and said he had no control. John Hinckley, 25, Washington, D.C. Shot and almost killed President Ronald Reagan, wounded three others – took 2 Valium two hours before the shooting. Andrea Yates, Houston, Texas, drowned all five of her children in a bathtub – on Effexor. Christopher Pittman, 12, Chester, South Carolina, shot and killed his grandparents and burned the house down – on Paxil and Zoloft.
Something to ponder. KF PS: There is also a suggestion of an 11 yo girl intimidated into pushing a threatening note under a Principal's door and being arrested on felony charges. We have to watch that side too -- remember Joseph and Potiphar's wife.kairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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Seversky, several points are in general agreement. I note, this was first yet another policing and/or mental health care failure. That goes to the competence of several bureaucracies including FBI. I forgot, there are signs of a culturally conditioned and scripted syndrome that needs to be dealt with, one similar to going amok. Next, the delay until call the police problem is subject to: "when seconds count, the police are minutes away." Also, the police have no particular binding obligation to protect those not on a security detail list. The Israeli solution (including armed teachers) is indicated. Firearms and cadets training should be part of the school curriculum, indeed that is part of the classic Swiss system. I have long since highlighted that we are in a different threat age and need to set up a civilian marshal corps with overwatch on essentially every likely target . . . only such would be affordable. I guess it is going to take a few Mumbai and Betaclan attacks to drive that point home. I note, I am not satisfied with official accounts on several incidents, and frankly that goes back to November 1963 for the USA. God only knows how far back elsewhere. KF PS: The deleterious influences are notorious, historically. When even a novellist like H G Wells writes a warning into the opening remarks of a popular novel, take him at his word. If de river mullet say Alligator down dere, believe him.kairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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It sounds like there is general agreement that this is a multi-factorial problem that requires a strategy comprising several different strands. The first and most immediate is improving school security measures. There was the recent case of the girl who brought a pistol into school in her backpack. She dropped the pack, the gun went off and injured two students. Luckily, both survived but that should never have happened. She should not have been able to bring the gun in unchallenged. Cruz got on to school premises with an AR-15 rifle and a number of magazines. That should have not have been possible. Schools need to install better security measures which should be able to delay a shooter getting in long enough for the police to be called even if they can't stop him entirely. And if Congress can't pass better gun-control legislation the least they could do is vote the funds for better security. The second is better mental health protocols for handling cases where students are clearly troubled and displaying some of the signs that precede violent incidents. This should be more than just expelling troublemakers as expulsion can lead to them being even more isolated and feeling victimized. There needs to be positive interventions that might forestall a crisis. Finally, there needs to be better regulation of gun-ownership. Society requires that people who want to drive a car be properly trained in the safe handling of a vehicle, have a working knowledge of the laws and regulations that govern traffic behavior and pass a test of those skills and knowledge before being granted a license to drive. Vehicles are dangerous and society has a right to protect itself as far as possible. The same should apply to firearms. Before anyone starts screaming about the Second Amendment, this is in now way a call to have it repealed. As a Millian libertarian I believe that people should be free to shoot guns for sport or recreation. But also as a Millian libertarian I hold that if someone practices a hobby or sport that can harm others if not done in a safe and responsible manner then society has a right and a duty to regulate it so as to minimize the risks. As for the connection of these shootings to the works of Nietzsche or Darwin I would point out that millions of people have read their works over the centuries without being driven to go out and shoot people. I would say their works are neither a necessary nor sufficient explanation for these crimes. I also own a few guns myself and have read Darwin - although not Nietzsche - without feeling the slightest compulsion to go out and shoot anything at all.Seversky
February 18, 2018
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--Look, clearly we need better gun laws. This Cruz kid should never have been able to purchase any gun let alone an AR-15.-- You have sort of a point, but it isn't the gun laws but their enforcement. The Texas shooter, by law, should not have had a gun. Even Paddock should have raised some red flags. With Cruz it seems less about guns and more about mental health policy. I'm real curious to learn if he was on any meds.tribune7
February 18, 2018
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Folks, it is clear that there are layers of problems here, compounded by issues of deep polarisation. I find that Charles raises a critical point:
We need the FBI and local LEO to do their damn jobs. The FBI was tipped to Cruz twice and they ignored him (just like they ignored the Tsarnov brothers and Hasan and the Pulse shooter, etc.). This isn’t a gun control problem, this is ignore the criminal problem. LEO had been called out to Cruz’s house some 39 times.
Similarly, we can see another:
the greatest benefit with least burden is an armed citizenry that shoots back. There’s a reason mass-shooters target schools.
And he makes a third:
the UK/EU citizenry are not appreciably safer than Chicagoans. You drew the comparison that countries with strict gun control were better off than Chicago. They’re not. They face an equally hostile criminal element, even though they don’t have guns. They have gun control and they’re defenseless. Not having guns didn’t improve the quality of their lives . . . . That’s the problem with all the gun control efforts. They don’t actually keep guns out the hands of criminals. A more pragmatic approach is for teachers, hotel security, citizenry to shoot back. It’s the gun free-zones that leave themselves defenseless. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.
Where, in the case of settlement jihad no-go zones, they may not show up; the local warlord substitutes for law. JAD indicates:
Why not train volunteer security personnel to protect our schools? Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School did have one armed security guard but that was hardly sufficient when you consider the size of the campus. A dozen or so volunteer armed security guards strategically placed around the campus could have mitigated the high injury and death toll.
He goes on:
There already exist organizations that provide this kind of training. The following is one of them: http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/ Greg Ellifritz the President and Primary Instructor of this group had this to say about last Weds. (2/14/18) school shooting.
The best way to stop a school shooting in progress is through rapid armed intervention. The policy makers can debate as to who is best suited to provide such a response; it doesn’t really matter to me. It can be school staff, armed security guards, a posse of CCW parents, or a uniformed police officer. If someone is killing your kid, I promise that you won’t care who shows up to stop the shooting.
Notice this is an approach that works with the Second Amendment not against it. We live in a new world. This is something that could prevented a last Weds. tragedy by providing a last line of protection.
This is of course close to what happened a little while ago with the church attack in Texas, where a next door neighbour took up his own AR-15 to engage the gunman, then with help of a passing driver gave pursuit. The case of Israel is also quite clear. As for the Las Vegas case, I am not at all sure we have the full story. I am concerned that the first long burst is more consistent with a belt-fed weapon than anything else. I do not like the near-far bursts captured by a taxi driver. I also understand that a belt loop or the like can be used to create a "bump stock" type effect, but note that in all of these cases accuracy at any reasonable distance is out of the window. And more. A clear pattern that is coming out is that something has gone very wrong with law enforcement. But then, that may go back as far as November 1963. KFkairosfocus
February 17, 2018
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Here’s another opinion (see # 70 above) about training a small select number of teachers to serve as armed security guards.
[There] are two reforms that schools can make at minimal expense. First, if they have unarmed security guards, they can hire armed ones instead. And two, they can pay their teachers a little extra to become trained as armed security guards and carry guns while on the job. Per the Houston Chronicle’s Chron.com, The amount of training required [to become an armed guard] in each state varies. In Oklahoma, for instance, applicants must complete two phases of unarmed guard training, for a total of 40 hours, and 32 hours of firearms training; Tennessee requires only four hours of unarmed guard training and eight hours of firearms training. That’s something a teacher could easily accomplish during summer vacation, even if schools insisted on rigorous training. If a few teachers in each school did this, schools would gain a line of defense against shooters without hiring more personnel or introducing more police officers into the school environment.
https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/arm-teachers/ And it appears it’s already happening is some states:
Hundreds of school teachers in Ohio, Colorado and elsewhere have been trained by an organization called Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response (FASTER). The group, operated by Ohio-based Buckeye Firearms Association, conducts a program that was created along with concerned parents, law officers and safety experts, according to a description of the group on its website. The program provides 26 hours of hands-on training over three days and exceeds the requirements of the Ohio Peace Officer Training Academy, according to FASTER officials. It entails practice scenarios in which the armed protector must find and subdue the threat as students flee a classroom.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/28/teachers-packing-heat-more-educators-taking-gun-training-classes.html Again, this is an approach that works with the Second Amendment not against it. On the other hand, it's not an extreme gun rights view where everyone is packing.john_a_designer
February 17, 2018
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ET @ 72
Look, clearly we need better gun laws.
We clearly need enforcement of the laws we've got. We need the FBI and local LEO to do their damn jobs. The FBI was tipped to Cruz twice and they ignored him (just like they ignored the Tsarnov brothers and Hasan and the Pulse shooter, etc.). This isn't a gun control problem, this is ignore the criminal problem. LEO had been called out to Cruz's house some 39 times. Good greif!!! It wouldn't matter how strict are gun controls if the police won't act on the intel they've got.Charles
February 17, 2018
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Jul3s @ 71:
The problem and the need for protection was much smaller before unrestrained criminals arrived so no, it is in fact only an argument against uncontrolled immigration.
So you admit their lives aren't better off than Chicagoans, that not having guns hasn't made them safer.
No law stops any crime 100% of the time. That is an impossible standard to keep.
But the greatest benefit with least burden is an armed citizenry that shoots back. There's a reason mass-shooters target schools. Actually, no law stops any crime, ever. That is the definition of "crime" - a violation of law. The only way for gun control to work is for criminals to cooperate with it. Good luck with that. Reducing gun violence thru gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by denying cars to sober people.Charles
February 17, 2018
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Look, clearly we need better gun laws. This Cruz kid should never have been able to purchase any gun let alone an AR-15. And it is very doubtful that he would have been able to buy a gun on the black market.ET
February 17, 2018
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Which is it Jul3s; Paddock could have easily gotten automatic assault rifles and machine guns, or the laws stopped Paddock. You don’t get to argue he ‘could have’ but ‘couldn’t have’.
I didn't say that. I said he had enough money to easily afford a few. The law made access to them difficult enough for him that he opted instead for a much worse choice of weapon. The other mass-shooters in recent times have all opted for the more easily accessible weapons.
it is an argument against not being defenseless in the face of unrestrain criminals.
The problem and the need for protection was much smaller before unrestrained criminals arrived so no, it is in fact only an argument against uncontrolled immigration.
That’s the problem with all the gun control efforts. They don’t actually keep guns out the hands of criminals
No law stops any crime 100% of the time. That is an impossible standard to keep.Jul3s
February 17, 2018
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The Second Amendment says:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I live in area that's quite rural with a lot of small communities-- too small for a professionally staffed police dept. or fire dept. For police protection these communities rely on the county sheriff and his deputies. As for protection against fire many of them have volunteer fire depts. I’ve gotten to know a couple volunteer firemen. They go through rigorous training and are on call 24/7. They willingly volunteer to serve and are proud of what they do. I know that because they are not shy about sharing their “war stories.” Why not train volunteer security personnel to protect our schools? Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School did have one armed security guard but that was hardly sufficient when you consider the size of the campus. A dozen or so volunteer armed security guards strategically placed around the campus could have mitigated the high injury and death toll. Who would volunteer? I think you could find teachers would who be willing to volunteer. They would be strategically placed by just being in their classroom. I am not suggesting that every teacher needs to be trained just enough to meet the schools security needs. There already exist organizations that provide this kind of training. The following is one of them: http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/ Greg Ellifritz the President and Primary Instructor of this group had this to say about last Weds. (2/14/18) school shooting.
The best way to stop a school shooting in progress is through rapid armed intervention. The policy makers can debate as to who is best suited to provide such a response; it doesn’t really matter to me. It can be school staff, armed security guards, a posse of CCW parents, or a uniformed police officer. If someone is killing your kid, I promise that you won’t care who shows up to stop the shooting.
Notice this is an approach that works with the Second Amendment not against it. We live in a new world. This is something that could prevented a last Weds. tragedy by providing a last line of protection.john_a_designer
February 17, 2018
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Jul3s @ 68 64: "He could easily have afforded to get an automatic assault rifle or a machine gun. " 68: "But the laws DID stop Paddock. " Which is it Jul3s; Paddock could have easily gotten automatic assault rifles and machine guns, or the laws stopped Paddock. You don't get to argue he 'could have' but 'couldn't have'.
That is an argument against unrestricted immigration, not gun control.
No, it is an argument against not being defenseless in the face of unrestrained criminals, and the UK/EU citizenry are not appreciably safer than Chicagoans. You drew the comparison that countries with strict gun control were better off than Chicago. They're not. They face an equally hostile criminal element, even though they don't have guns. They have gun control and they're defenseless. Not having guns didn't improve the quality of their lives.
As I pointed out above, mass-shooters have chosen not to break the law in acquiring weapons despite being able to.
That's the problem with all the gun control efforts. They don't actually keep guns out the hands of criminals. A more pragmatic approach is for teachers, hotel security, citizenry to shoot back. It's the gun free-zones that leave themselves defenseless. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.Charles
February 17, 2018
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Just search Youtube for the Bullit County Machine Gun Shoot. Yeehah
"Knob Creek is a Cold Range. This means NO loaded Firearms of any kind may be carried on Knob Creek property during the Machine Gun Shoot. All Firearms must be declared and zip tied with magazines out at the admission gate" Try telling them to abolish this rule since "gun control doesn't work" and "criminals don't cooperate with rules".
Your point relies entirely on criminals cooperating with strict laws, obviously, as do the law-abiding citizens. And no matter where you look, criminals don’t cooperate with any laws, do they.
That is a completely ridiculous misrepresentation of what I said. Its not about willing cooperation, but consequences and ease of access. As I pointed out above, mass-shooters have chosen not to break the law in acquiring weapons despite being able to.
Because they aren’t Chicago and don’t have Chicago’s gangbanger criminal element. But Britian and Europe are now overrun with Muslim gangs, complete with no-go zones, and those countries’ citizens are being raped, beaten and robbed daily with no police defense
That is an argument against unrestricted immigration, not gun control. The crimes are not primarily firearms related anyway.
Then banning them would not have stopped Paddock from illegally getting and using them, now would it. You admit banning automatic weapons wouldn’t have stopped Paddock.
But the laws DID stop Paddock. He didn't use an optimised but more difficult to access weapon. He used a collection of readily available but very sub-par and unreliable (thanks to their modifications) weapons.Jul3s
February 17, 2018
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Jul3s @ 60
Strict laws won’t work if there are areas with much looser laws nearby. Obviously. This does nothing to refute my point.
Your point relies entirely on criminals cooperating with strict laws, obviously, as do the law-abiding citizens. And no matter where you look, criminals don't cooperate with any laws, do they.
Countries with stricter gun control (not necessarily banning) don’t have the other problems that Chicago has and they are better off for it.
Because they aren't Chicago and don't have Chicago's gangbanger criminal element. But Britian and Europe are now overrun with Muslim gangs, complete with no-go zones, and those countries' citizens are being raped, beaten and robbed daily with no police defense (in fact the police pretend there are no problems and even scrub their reports) and also no means of self-defense.
Take for example the Los Vegas shooter, Stephen Paddock. He was a millionaire and he did planning and research for months. He was resourceful and determined. He could easily have afforded to get an automatic assault rifle or a machine gun. But he didn’t use either.
Then banning them would not have stopped Paddock from illegally getting and using them, now would it. You admit banning automatic weapons wouldn't have stopped Paddock. OTOH, a semi AR-15 in the hands of hotel security could have stopped Paddock within 30 seconds. But they were unarmed... they had to call for other people who had guns.Charles
February 17, 2018
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