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Is Russia ready for ID?

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I think Russia is primed and ready to get a dose of ID. 15 years after the fall of the Soviet Union, what are the attitudes about naturalistic evolution today?

Russia: Creationism Finds Support Among Young
A poll conducted by the Yuri Levada Center last September showed that only 26 percent of those surveyed supported the theory of evolution, while 49 percent of respondents said they believed man was created by God.

ID is not the same as creationism, however, ID has prospered when the cultural backdrop has been decidedly anti-Darwinian as in the US. Dembski credits Morris for the climate in the US which made people friendly toward ID. Perhaps the same will happen in Russia….

To go on with my story, an interesting development happened 7 years ago around May 1999. An NCSE emissary by the name of Barbara Forrest was sent to try to stem the tide of creationists in Russia. A report of her mission and a distress call is here Help Counter Creationism in Russia

NCSE member Barbara Forrest, who recently attended a conference in St. Petersburg, reports that Russian scientists desperately need resources to stem the rising tide of creationism in their country.

Do you see the irony in all of this? The Darwinists in Russia are looking to the leaders of materialist intellectual totalitarianism in America for help.

Given the numbers above, it appears Barb’s mission failed miserably. 🙂
To leave a little inspiration for all of us, here is a picture of the fall of Lenin’s statue symbolizing the end of the Soviet Union:

Statue of Lenin Torn Down

Oh, I can imagine some wonderful Darwinalia video games whose endpoint is the triumph of the ID heroes, and the taking down of a statue with a chorus of cheers, and the waving of flags of freedom by the ID Contras who prevailed over the Darwinistas.

Here here.

Update: Credit Lawrence Selden for the term “Darwinista” here

"It is interesting that in a nation that up until 15 years ago was governed by those influenced by atheism has citizens who believe that God had something to do with their existence. Perhaps they know instinctively from experience that naturalism doesn’t work." Privet(Hello) DonaldM, if you don't mind some personal insight.... Spasiba(Thank you) Babushka's, keepers of the light. They kept faith alive in their children and grandchildren in far away places like Murmansk, and towns in Siberia where many resided due to husbands or relatives in the notorious Gulags. We are truly fortunate to be spared such a life. I can only assume a historian like Forrest understands Gulag, but turns away. Up until 90's, maybe even today, Babushkas take their grandchildren to the Ukraine to be baptized. This tradition passed thru generations. Recently Putin made straight a way for a new road to Tikhvin, a little town renown for an icon supposedly traveling from Yerushalayim to Constantinople, eventually to Tikhvin then to Chicago. Fleeing as it were each threat in time. Word is, it traveled on the El Train. Back to Russia today, 200,000 people along with Putin greeted its arrival. It traveled the new road back to Tikhvin(http://www.nortfort.ru/tikhvin/index_e.html). The church was being remodeled after much neglect and abuse when I was there, but the beauty was undeniable especially the art inside. I imagine its appearance is much better today. On a cold winters night there an old Russian navy veteran showed me a new Baptist Church much to my surprise. We stood and talked, walked around it, quite freezing, but he wanted to show me and I desired to see. And so we talked about Orion's belt, the Pleiades and of course the Bear. The Baptist Church was involved in helping orphans. And he expressed interest in helping their efforts. My hope is to be welcomed back soon one starry cold night just as warmly on a New Years Eve on icy-topped roads from St. Pete to see the new work done. The Baptist must not be trusted according to Forrest. Creation itself, a terebinth to carve, a wood sweetly consumed on the other hand is quite appetizing. For Ms. Forrest to boldly go where man oppressed millions before, not just by judge, nor by sight, but by villainy and deplorable delight states volumes of NCSE work. I cannot speak for all schools in Russia. From what I am familiar they learn multiple languages starting from 2nd grade and far more advanced at least at that age than our own public schools. It is only in post-secondary they suffered and due to oppression of creative thought, freedom of speech in education. I can only imagine Forrest intends to turn back the clock, this on a nation which suffered untold pain the likes of which we still don't comprehend this day. The Babushka's kept alive what so many here freely give up without pressure. Could we give up Thomas A. Edison's gift of light on a night in September? No, neither shall quadrants of a plane be un-xed. The icon was returned in July 8, 2004 to Tikhvin, a quiet faith now openly greeted. http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com/129/A%20Miracle.htm There are many problems in Russia, but Putin knows, freedom is to stay. And so ID will be discussed. Of course, in the hearts, the light was never extinguished, much to the dismay of some. Michaels7
A note to the above comment. Dr. Loenings entire webspace, where he publishes his scientific work has been taken from the net after pressure from the German Biologist Foundation on the Max Plank Institute saying it would cause its Institute tremedous damage to have Dr. Loening publish his creationist work over their Institute webspace. This looks seriously like a Sternberg. Maybe someone wants to open a thread about it :) More German required than a Konrad Adenauer quote ;) tb
It has definatly reached Germany for sure :) http://www.weloennig.de/internetlibrary.html This is the site of a German doctorate Biologist (Max Plank Institute Cologne) who seems to get the same treatment like Sternberg for standing up and voiceing his doubt about Darwinian Evolution. The German Biologist Foundation has reached verdict - ID is creationism and has no place in science, neither have its exponents. He also has a publications in English named "Dynamic Genomes, Morphological Stasis, and the Origin of Irreducible Complexity". http://www.uni-kassel.de/~kut/beitrag1.html Here is a rather nasty aggression against Dr. Loennig, it is in German though. Fazit: Wissenschaftsfeindlichkeit ist auf der Seite der Kreationisten (bzw. ID-Vertreter) anzusiedeln und nicht jenen Biologen zu unterstellen, die sich redlich bemühen, durch Originalarbeiten den Erkenntnisfortschritt voranzubringen. Eine ernsthafte, sachliche Diskussion mit der Gegenseite ist aus meiner Sicht sinnlos, da der subjektive Glaube stärker ist als das objektive Wissen. Conclusion: Adverseness against Science is on the side of the Creationists (respectively ID-exponents) and should not be insinuated upon those Biologists who try, in an honest manner, to bring scientific advancement through original work. A serious, factual discussion with the opposition is, as I see it, inane, since subjective believe is stronger than objective knowledge. Professor Dr. Ulrich Kutschera Lehrstuhl für Pflanzenphysiologie und Evolutionsbiologie Institut für Biologie, Universität Kassel http://www.uni-kassel.de/fb19/plantphysiology/ekut.htm tb
I think ID can only gain momentum. It's already a force to be reckoned with in the US and UK, and it's only a matter of time before it picks up steam elsewhere. You can only fool a person's common sense for so long. ;) crandaddy

"We’ve got to find ourselves a statue of Darwin. Any of those lying around?"

I'm afraid, only Darwin Dolls.

I should point out, we here at Uncommon Descent repect the religous practices of others, no matter how outrageous. We stand up for the rights of Darwinists to pay homage to Charles in whatever way they choose, including the the dispaly of his statue on private property, and we wouldn't think of encouraging any harm to such private icons.

However, should the day come that any goverment-owned statues of Darwin are decided by popular vote to be disowned (I don't know if any exist), why, I would imagine there might be an auction battle over the thing as a trophy. But if any one won the auction, and got a hold of such a statue and wanted to offer it up as a target in a pie throwing contest at the school fair, he should steer clear of Dover, where Judge Jones mandated Darwin cannot be denigrated.

We've got to find ourselves a statue of Darwin. Any of those lying around? jasonng
It is interesting that in a nation that up until 15 years ago was governed by those influenced by atheism has citizens who believe that God had something to do with their existence. Perhaps they know instinctively from experience that naturalism doesn't work. DonaldM

The Soviet Union had the mighty KGB and the state to help promote mindless evolutionism. Now they have Barbara Forrest. :-)

To be fair, it is not clear to me what brand of evolutionary theory the Soviets had since they were so dominated by Lysenkoism. But since they were a materialist state, they surely were not creationists.


From the NCSE link: "Forrest's host, Dr Sergei Orlov, is urging colleagues to develop answers to unscientific claims (sound familiar?) and collecting as much creationist literature as he can - a task that's all too easy because St. Petersburg is flooded with Russian translations of books and pamphlets about "creation science". "He once had a copy of Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy," Forrest told us, "but it was so popular with his students that he couldn't get it back. He was delighted when I gave him my own copy." NCSE is sending more copies, and several back issues of Creation/Evolution, but there is more to do. Will you help?" Atheism was the official religion of Russia for 70+ years. Indoctrination was mandatory at all levels of society. Barbara, Eugenie and the gang at NCSE will have an an uphill battle if they now have to resort to actual persuasion. russ

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