Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Coyne et al cheer on censorship — it is time to take notice . . .

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Yesterday, UD News  headlined a case of radical secularist censorship in Los Angeles being cheered on by Jerry Coyne et al. The case concerns the removal of the following sign (shown under fair use) that was formerly present at a Museum of Natural History in that city:

censored_sign

Notice, what Coyne says in exultation over the removal of the sign:

If I get any other information I’ll convey it, but for now I’m pleased that God is out of the Museum and no longer gets credit for “creatures.”  It’s a victory for secularism, for sure.

Something is blatantly, deeply wrong.

Wrong with the push to censor. Wrong with the willingness of the museum’s leadership to be intimidated by Darwinist thuggery — and yes, this is thuggery. Wrong with professors who should value academic freedom, freedom of expression and diversity but instead are cheering on censorship.

And — most importantly, wrong in a civilisation that is so rapidly losing its way, that it too often does not see a warning-sign for what it is.

By way of illustration, let me contrast a second sign that seems to have been put up (at Advent season, nothing less) by the Freedom From Religion Foundation in the Illinois State legislature building . . . which IIRC, is the same state where prof. Coyne is based; a sign reportedly put up by the FFRF in the name of freedom of religious expression:

AtheistsSign

The stereotypical, scapegoating accusatory message and significance of its timing at the Christmas season could not be clearer.

(Let’s ask: have Mr Coyne and ilk loudly called for removal of this blatant piece of bigotry and scapegoating hostility that refuses to acknowledge the most obvious facts that — despite the inevitable sins that any movement with a track record in history will also have to deal with  —  Judaeo-Christian theism is a legitimate and intellectually serious worldview with thousands of years of positive contributions to our civilisation including advancing humanitarianism, civil liberty, learning and science? I doubt it. [And while I am at it, let us remember: if we are to make sensible policy choices, we must compare real with real in light of material pros and cons, not real with utopian ideal or whitewashed . . . as in, strawman tactics make for poor and often unjust or abusive and corrupt policy. Cases in point are obvious, all around and on the ash-heaps of sound history. Which, we had better learn and value as a record of hard-bought experience and lessons; lest we repeat its worst chapters.])

{BTW: if you doubt the direct connexion between the two, ponder this comment by NewEnglandBob in Coyne’s Combox:

Critical thinking – 1, Superstition – 0.}

I took time out to comment on the news post, and as it is beginning to slide down the page, let me now headline that comment:

________________

>> This pattern of intolerance and censorship of legitimate and historically important perspectives begins to call forth an analysis of motives, attitudes and habitual patterns.

For instance, Jesus — in a psychologically deeply insightful observation — warns that we should beware and seek to address the plank in our own eye when we want to take the speck out of someone else’s eye, and says that he who is faithful/unfaithful with little will be much the same with greater power and responsibility. So, while the temptation for objectors to design theory etc is to try to twist this about and project it accusingly against us, given their refusal to acknowledge history (BA77 [OOPS: Barb] is so right to point to Newton and by extension many others down to today . . . ) and to pretend that those on our side can only be ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked, we need to hold up a mirror.

For instance, Egnor reports how Coyne exults:

The anonymous donor quote at the NHM has been removed. My second-hand source tells me it will not be replaced. No doubt your efforts, coupled with those of a science reporter at KPCC looking into the mess, compelled the administration to finally do the right thing. Without doubt, you and your WEIT audience were the driving forces, for which I’m grateful.

This is censorship of a legitimate perspective on science, from a context that is educational.

It is part and parcel of an increasingly widespread pattern that projects blame, base motivation, hatred/enmity to science and shrill accusations of intent to create a theocratic, right wing tyranny.

This outrageously false and unbalanced scapegoating is beginning to look like blame the victim/ blame the perceived other, projection to me.

Where, writ large and backed by growing radical secularist power, it is manifestly part of a blame the target turnabout accusation that all too easily becomes a big lie propaganda agenda.

Where also, of course, such a lie can and must be shown to be a case of speaking with willful disregard to the truth one knows or should know, hoping to profit by what is false being perceived and acted on as if it were true. In this case, through outright censorship of a donor’s plaque.

And where we are cautioned, on the mirror principle, to note with Freud et al (and I here cite Wiki speaking against interest):

Psychological projection was conceptualized by Sigmund Freud in the 1900s as a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world.[1] For example, a person who is rude may accuse other people of being rude . . . .

Projection tends to come to the fore in normal people at times of crisis, personal or political,[13] but is more commonly found in the neurotic or psychotic[14]—in personalities functioning at a primitive level as in narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder.[15]

Carl Jung considered that the unacceptable parts of the personality represented by the Shadow archetype were particularly likely to give rise to projection, both small-scale and on a national/international basis.[16] Marie-Louise Von Franz extended his view of projection, stating that: “… wherever known reality stops, where we touch the unknown, there we project an archetypal image”.[17]

The philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach based his theory of religion in large part upon the idea of projection, that is the idea that an anthropomorphic deity is the outward projection of man’s anxieties and desires . . .

That last part is revealing: Feuerbach (who is where Marx began from, and IIRC is notorious for his you are what you eat materialist view . . . ) has simply swept away the serious reasons for a mature worldview that takes God seriously — and thus rightfully sees him as the Father of compassion and God of all comfort — and instead paints a ridiculous strawman caricature. Which itself invites the counter- analysis that asks, what is he afraid of in his own system that he projects to others. Not, as a mere rhetorical turnabout, but in the context of the well warranted observation that the portrait projected is manifestly a strawman so it invites analysis on mirror psychology grounds.

Now, let us apply to Coyne et al.

1 –> Obviously, they have begun by not doing duty of care to truth or fairness, about the easily discovered Judaeo-Christian theistic roots of modern science, and the historically important and quite legitimate view that echoes Boyle, Kepler, Newton, Pascal, Pasteur, Kelvin and ever so many others down to today:

in science we seek to think God’s creative and sustaining thoughts after him, serving him and others by exploring our world to more accurately understand it and so be better stewards of it and its resources . . .

2 –> There is nothing illegitimate or unduly threatening in such a view of and approach to science. That is obvious. Indeed, we do the public and especially children a disservice if we leave them with the impression that this view has not been historically important, a source of much good, and continues to be an important view today held by many working scientists, engineers and medical practitioners in all sorts of fields.

3 –> Likewise — as as BA77 hints at just above by citing the US Declaration of Independence of 1776 (which speaks to God no less than four highly significant times, and makes rights endowed by our Creator the pivot of its argument) — it is a manifest distortion of historically anchored truth we know or should know to pretend that faith in God is an inevitable prelude to tyranny. (And yes, we are aware of and address the sad history of the sins of Christendom, cf. here on. The problem is that we are not dealing with balance here, but a persistently repeated one-sided litany designed to stir up fear, suspicion and even hate leading to destructive anger. Instead, let us state the obvious: no influential movement of consequence in history will not have its record of sins as amidst wheat poisonous tares will forever spring up. As humans we are finite, fallible, morally and intellectually struggling, and too often ill-willed and even hypocritical. The moral hazards of being human which we must all struggle with. Hence Jesus’ counsel on planks in one’s own eye: first remove the plank then you can see clearly to help the other with the sawdust in his eye.)

4 –> Just the opposite, when — in Ch 2 sec 5 of his 2nd treatise on civil government — Locke (building on a foundation laid by theologians and Christian thinkers, writers and statesmen during and before the Reformation) set out to ground what would become modern liberty and democracy . . . and not least through that same US DOI of 1776, he cites a comment by “the judicious [Anglican canon Richard] Hooker,” where in his Ecclesiastical Polity that worthy comments on the neighbour love ethical principle that is at the pivot of Biblical morality:

. . . if I cannot but wish to receive good, even as much at every man’s hands, as any man can wish unto his own soul, how should I look to have any part of my desire herein satisfied, unless myself be careful to satisfy the like desire which is undoubtedly in other men . . . my desire, therefore, to be loved of my equals in Nature, as much as possible may be, imposeth upon me a natural duty of bearing to themward fully the like affection. From which relation of equality between ourselves and them that are as ourselves, what several rules and canons natural reason hath drawn for direction of life no man is ignorant . . . [Hooker then continues, citing Aristotle in The Nicomachean Ethics, Bk 8:] as namely, That because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like . . . ] [Eccl. Polity, preface, Bk I, “ch.” 8, p.80.]

5 –> These facts are not exactly obscure or hard to learn, so there is no excuse for the sort of persistently willful distortion and projections that we are seeing, which are now manifesting themselves in cases of abuse of law, administrative power and influence, here to impose a characteristic mark of growing tyranny — undue censorship of public education.

6 –> Where, patently, there is nothing that is genuinely obscene or unduly offensive in the following inscription which was removed due to agitation, without proper accountability:

“The Nature Lab is a gift to Los Angeles to celebrate all of God’s creatures and enable NHM to broaden our understanding of the natural world through the process of scientific discovery.” Anonymous Donor 2013

7 –> So, we have serious grounds for now applying the mirror psychology principle to Coyne et al and their censorship.

8 –> Obviously, such fear God and fear that the world of nature and of human experience of the inner and outer world is so replete with signs that point to God and to our duty under him, that to advance their agenda of teenager rebellion writ large, they must do everything to induce us to fear, loathe, suspect and exclude God from our reckoning and to act with hostility to those who act through acknowledging God. (Cf here on and here on in context.)

9 –> They are also obviously deeply angry, as the all too persistent shrillness of their rhetoric reveals. But also, deep seated anger is a key motivator of the dark triad manipulative and abusive pattern of narcicissim, machiavellianism and sociopathy that is an increasing concern today. That is, the darker side of “cool,” and it is a big red warning flag. (And yes, I come from hurricane country. I know storm signs and warnings when I see them.)

10 –> Where, obviously, such anger and threatening attitudes are easily projected to others who are designated, stereotypical, strawmannised scapegoats. Which in today’s age, increasingly obviously, is what Christians — let’s be direct — are typically set up to be by radical secularists.

11 –> And as Aristotle warned, in The Rhetoric Bk I ch 2, when he discussed the persuasive power of pathos, ethos and logos, our judgements when we are pleased and friendly are very different from those we make when we are pained and angry.

12 –> So, it is time to expose the attitudes and behaviours of Coyne and others who are already resorting to and cheering on censorship, that they are beginning to build up the same pattern of “a long train of abuses and usurpations” that dismisses concerns and remonstrance, that warrants taking serious action to carry out reformation in the teeth of those who by their persistent behaviour — cf the case in view here, outright censorship — show themselves threats to liberty and self-determination and self-government of and by a free people. >>

_________________

Folks, the warning signs and flags are going up all around. Time to take heed, before things spin utterly out of control. END

PS: By way of a small push-back to Coyne et al and FFRF et al also at , let me put up two 101 level videos that speak to the general public.

First, as the idea that God is Creator is being attacked and censored, Strobel’s The Case for a Creator:

[vimeo 20197160]

Second, in reply to the dismissal of “Religion” at the Advent season as empty and destructive superstition, Strobel’s The Case for Christ:

[vimeo 17960119]

Comments
Sagebrush The prosperity gospel is in effective because of passages that state god will take care of the people who love of him, that is of course when he doesn't take care of them because he loves them. Christianity is to atheism as evolution is to creationism....it can't be falsified. He answers our prayers, he loves us. He doesn't answer our prayers, he loves us. He takes away our suffering, he loves us. He allows us to suffer, he loves us. I'm familiar that the bible teaches that you will suffer for his sake but all I'm saying is you better make damn sure he is real or else you wasted you're only life for nothing. BTW, prove to me that the end story of revelation is true. Many christians believe that this fable happened in the first century. If that's the case, who's return are you waiting for? Didn't jesus say that his generation would not pass until the things he mentioned came true (which they didn't). You ask me wouldn't I rather be on the winning team. Prove to me that you have the winning team because so far science tells me that you have the losing team.JLAfan2001
December 17, 2013
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KRock, I came across it quite a while ago now, in the Guardian, of all places. They have a religious section, and I believe it was in an article in it by a clergyman. I'm sure there are terms and phrases one can use in polemics, lobbying, etc, which are inordinately powerful. It must be one of the key jobs of 'spin doctors' to identify them, and the potential overtones of all words being used within a given context. The beauty of this one is that they've done all the donkey-work, the Goebbels repetition, with it and now it's ripe to be turned against them. I mean it is the malefactors' mirror-image of Christian fundamentalism, in that it is passionately reductionist; fanatically vindictive into the bargain in their case - shrill and fear-driven, as well it might be.Axel
December 17, 2013
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@ Axel Secular fundamentalist? ...I like it. @ KF: Great to hear your son is doing better KF. On a side note, I just want to say that if you’re ever wondering if the ID community is having a positive impact in a world of competing ideas, it is. Case in point; my wife was out for lunch one day with a few co-workers and she over heard a conversation that was ensuing between a few University students. The conversation these students were having centered on how Intelligent Design, as a theory, was gaining ground in its ability to explain the complexity of nature and that future research in the area human origin, lied within the theory of ID. My wife, who really has no interest in the subject of ID, pointed out a few things to me which I thought were interesting. One, these students were very excited about the prospects of ID and two, the University they attended is a prominent secular university. Keep up the good work at UD..KRock
December 17, 2013
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From my blog at: http://ayearningforpublius.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/ive-grown-accustomed-to-your-face/ I've grown accustomed to your face. The following scenario is familiar to most of us, particularly as we grow older: We walk into a crowded and noisy room full of mostly strangers and unfamiliar heads bobbing up and down. Then off to the side and slightly behind we hear and recognize a familiar voice … we turn our head searching for that old friend we know is there, and after a short search … there she is, head slightly turned away from our view, but recognizable none-the-less. We are surprised and pleased to meet our old friend once more after some number of years and begin renewing the friendship. The recognition of the voce and face is instinctive and very quick; and we take it for granted with no thoughts of anything unusual other than the mere co-incidence of the meeting. But behind the scenes in our ears, eyes, nerves and brains is a marvelous and miraculous process called pattern recognition. A pattern recognition that is able to pick out and recognize individual faces and voices out of the billions of faces and voices surrounding us in the world. So let's take a brief tour of what's involved in meeting up with our old friend. The hearing system that most of us have is a partnership between our ears and brain along with the connecting nerves between the two. This stereo audio system is able to sift through the many amplitudes (volumes) presented – the multitudes of widely spread and finely differentiated frequencies – the various timbres presented by the many voices surrounding us in that room full of strangers. And we are able to pick out that distinctive and familiar voice among the multitudes. And by the way, that same set of ears, in the form of the semi-circular canals, is instrumental in our balance system which keeps us from stumbling around in that crowded room. And the eyes … my gosh what a gift … a gift of obvious design which enables us to stand in awe at the many wonders of our everyday world. The eyes, as with the ears, are continually involved in a massive process of pattern recognition that allow us to function smoothly within our very busy, active and dangerous world. Eyes that are quick to warn us of the dangers of that car moving too close to us on the freeway. Eyes that quickly recognize that old friend even in a crowded and busy room. In our modern technological world we have analogies to that busy room. Our Navy ships scan the depths of the ocean with sonar. The pulses transmitted from the sonar antenna bounce off; the ocean floor, schools of fish and even the surface of the ocean, returning a bewildering stream of noise that the computers of the sonar must sift through, filter and cluster to present the operators and commanders an array of potential hazards and threats to the fleet. These sophisticated sonar system require sophisticated computational systems and large amounts of memory storage to accomplish the task in real-time. But most fundamentally they require intelligent designers to create the systems required. Pattern recognition in the visual world is no less wondrous. When you take a picture of that group at a reunion with a modern state of the art camera, have you noticed the little boxes surrounding the faces? Somehow some very smart scientists and engineers have figured out how to program a computer in your camera to recognize that human faces are part of the picture and visually highlight them for you. And after you take them you can 'tag' the individual faces with names in programs like Facebook. Again, sophisticated computational power and large amounts of memory storage are required for the job. And, as in the case of sonar processing, intelligent designers are necessary to create the systems required. Pattern recognition is not a trivial task in the engineering world. Read some snippets in a Wikipedia article on "pattern recognition" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition: to get a feel for the mathematical complexities of such a built in human and animal capability. So I ask you my friends who believe that Darwinian Evolution … a belief in unguided, unintelligent and strictly natural processes; is it reasonable and rational that such a process could guide you to that reunion in a crowded room? And to those of you who denigrate and insult those of us who believe such natural capabilities are the result of an Intelligent Design (ID), I would ask … which of us is the IDiot?ayearningforpublius
December 17, 2013
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JLA @ 13: I don't believe in the God you don't believe in either. Where did you get the idea that he would exempt Christians from persecution? With the current popularity of the perverted "prosperity gospel", I can't put the blame entirely on you for your misunderstanding, but from Cain's murder of Abel to the present day, the righteous have suffered persecution. In fact Jesus said, "you will be hated by all for my name's sake." The Bible includes a history of a few worldly victories, yes, but more than that, the suffering of the righteous is a common theme from Genesis to Revelation. But (spoiler alert) I have read to the end of the book and our team wins -- for eternity! Isn't that the side you would rather be on, regardless of some temporary earthly suffering?sagebrush gardener
December 17, 2013
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KF: In case I was unclear above, it was Coyne et al that I was criticizing -- not your response. They are doing everything they can to undermine the right to publicly express viewpoints they disagree with. By the way, I am very glad to hear that your son is doing better.sagebrush gardener
December 17, 2013
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North America, specifically the US, is the last bastion of creationism. Most of the world has embraced evolution and moved on. You guys are the minority and you’re wasting your life on gibberish. Nihilism is reality.
If nihilism is reality, what isn't a waste of time, including your gibbering on about it?William J Murray
December 17, 2013
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Might want to make sure the sign didn't come down to some sort of pre-arranged time limit for the donation. But, if not, if this is bigotry against religion: The way to fight this is to start an email/social media campaign to pressure the administrators to put the sign back and admonish them for bowing to pressure from ideological terrorists. Post on their facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nhmla?ref=ts email them at: info@nhm.org twitter: https://twitter.com/nhmla Suggested post/content: Dear sirs, I read recently where the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles decided to bow to the thuggish pressure of ideological extremists by removing a donor appreciation sign that referred to "God". Is this correct, or is there some other explanation? If not, I can no longer in good conscience support the NHM with my donations or visitation until you correct this egregious capitulation to those intolerant of religion and theism in general. If an explanation is not forthcoming, I will spread word of this outrage to all my friends and colleagues through all the social media venues I can. This kind of bigotry is not acceptable. Signed, XXXXXXX I already sent a tip to http://www.truthrevolt.org/ - they've been able to pressure some very large corporations into action, though I don't know if this is their kind of thing.William J Murray
December 17, 2013
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I love science more than religion but I wouldn't condone such stupid act. It's just a sign showing the donors faith in God. In what way is it going to affect anyone in the building is beyond my understanding, and it is height of stupidity to bray about removal of the sign as if it was some abominable dictator's removal.selvaRajan
December 17, 2013
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PPS: JLA, you are directed to the Weak Argument Correctives, especially 1 - 8, to understand the difference between design thought and Creationism. In addition, note that design theory is consistent with common descent, even -- cf Behe -- universal common descent. What it is not consistent with, is what (despite many attempts) has never been shown as empirically warranted, and is highly dubious: that blind chance and mechanical necessity can and do produce functionally specific, complex organisation and associated information. By utter contrast, FSCO/I routinely comes about by and is a known highly reliable sign of design. And the gap between the evidence and the reigning orthodoxy grows day by day. Indeed, resort to censorship, abuse of influence in institutions and defamation, etc, are not signs of strength, but of projective behaviour and acting out driven by inner instability. It is hard to kick against the pricks.kairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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JLA: I thank you for your attempted comment, though I must note that it is inadvertently revealing on what we face -- down to the unfortunate grudging God of a capital letter. The ad hominem and Job's comforter attempt fails, as there is no general promise that Christians -- as is my son -- or good people in general will not suffer the usual ails of life. Indeed, we are warned of additional ails, persecution. And in fact there WERE miracles of guidance that opened the way, as well as that given the complexity and zero margin for error, success is itself a case of answered prayer. (And, on the wider problem of evil cf here in context.) As for the Rabshakeh attempt to demoralise by announcing the inevitable victory of your favoured materialism, it fails also. First, you are out of date: the strongest global trend is the ongoing Southern Christian Reformation, where for instance the fastest growing churches in the world are in Iran -- yes, Iran [hence part of the desperation of the Mullahs] -- and China. In the Islamic bloc, they have been reduced to putting a price on the head of men such as Fr Boutros of Egypt. You are confusing a local apostasy with a global trend. As for the idea that the progress of evolutionary materialism dominated science guarantees victory for your ideology, the rise of an information age is decisive against materialism. And sooner rather than later, a lot of people are going to ask, wait a minute, you are trying to explain complex DNA software and molecular nanomachines to run it on blind chance and mechanical necessity? Preposterous. Third, notice what you did: confronted with undeniable censorship and indefensible defamation backed up by state power, you tried to shift the subject through an ad hominem meant to be below the belt. The hollowing out of moral common good sense triggered by an amoral ideology you just revealed is a striking case of a damaging inadvertent admission against interest. I think you need to go, think again, look in the mirror and do better. KF PS: For those who need to know, my son is steadily improving, is out of hospital and is himself. Back to asking about time, infinity and the like.kairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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North America, specifically the US, is the last bastion of creationism. Most of the world has embraced evolution and moved on. You guys are the minority and you're wasting your life on gibberish. Nihilism is reality.JLAfan2001
December 17, 2013
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JLAfan2001, By "winning team" you surely mean the Seattle Seahawks who are a mortal lock to win the Super Bowl. Darwin himself said it best: defense wins championships.lpadron
December 17, 2013
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If god exists, he better show himself soon because his team seems to losing all over the world. It certainly would be a shame for christians to be persecuted for nothing. My advice to you would be to join the winning team. Don't waste your life being ridiculed for nothing. No one is coming to save you from any of this. It's just you guys and us. Nothing more. Give it all up, KF. Don't you see that you are suffering for nothing? Has god done anything to heal your son and reward your persecution for the faith? I would say medical science has done more than any deity has.JLAfan2001
December 17, 2013
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The administrators should publicly call them 'animals'; preferably in a court of law. Justify it to the judge as their own self-definition; and ask why the opinions of individuals who consider themselves as nothing more than a bunch of molecules, should not - far from being respected - be despised and ridiculed.Axel
December 17, 2013
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What I find most interesting about Coyne is that he does what he does merely for the sake of recognition. It screams "I'm here! I exist and I want to be one of the popular kids too!" so loudly that I can't help but be embarrassed for him. Note to Coyne: you will die and be forgotten. You'll likely be forgotten long before you die. Your blog will pass away, your work will be discarded, all you own will end up in a landfill or in someone else's hands. Nothing you do can change that. For all your squawking and squirming nothing you do is of any lasting importance. Nothing you do or have done is memorable. You are as insignificant as an ant and as disposable as the adult diaper that looms in your not too distant future. And that's the ultimate truth of the secularism you so fiercely defend. You should devote more time expounding on those aspects of it. But we know you won't.lpadron
December 17, 2013
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SG: Freedom of expression is of course a basic right, though one that has always been understood to be properly limited by the issue of defamation as tort. In the cases above, when FFRF went to the point of smearing "Religion" at advent season -- thus the Christian faith by direct implication -- it passed from freedom of expression [the first part] to defamation by libelling identifiable others in order to create an atmosphere of polarisation and stereotypical scapegoating. And when Coyne et al cheer on censorship of speech well within free expression, that speaks volumes. Never mind, that I thought the donor a bit naive to think that his money would be used in a way that respects his sentiments (assuming it is a "him"). After all we are dealing with an ilk that has no compunction to seize state institutions and force us to fund defamation in the name of art and materialist indoctrination in the name of education. And worse, much worse given what has been happening with abortion as just one example. I still say, mass blood-guilt (which is exactly what mass abortion on demand leads to in a culture) is the most corrupting influence of all. KFkairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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Axel: We have varied views on all sorts of topics under the tent of ID, and of the wider design view of the world that goes back to Plato and beyond. My own thought is that "fundamentalist" is a kidnapped word held at gun point and forced to say what the cynical spinmeisters demand by way of a broad-brush smear. I suggest that exposing the Plato's cave endarkenment [lets just coin the word and be done . . . ] under the false colours of enlightenment, with particular reference to materialist question-begging on origins, the self-referential incoherence on the credibility of mind that results, the pattern of irrationality that cannot acknowledge self evident truth, the ideological captivity of science to materialism and last but not least the amorality that opens the door to nihilism are enough. KFkairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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Freedom of speech does not exist if it does not apply to those with different views. Whatever happened to "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"? Remember this incident the next time you hear someone accuse Christians of "forcing their beliefs" on others.sagebrush gardener
December 17, 2013
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An apt comparison for their fanaticism would be the literal witch-hunts and burnings, which took place not more than a couple of hundred yards from where I'm now typing this post. Or the McCarthy trials, the purpose of which was to sideline potential liberal activists who might have contested the merits of the war in Korea.Axel
December 17, 2013
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Null: I am interpreting this as tongue in cheek. We do have a right to protest and petition for redress of grievances but a duty to be just, truthful and fair. Of course, if remonstrance fails, then we have reform, and if reform by ballot box -- institutional, community or national fails, secession and creation of new institutions with the right to defend these from those who set out on the road to tyranny. But, I suspect sooner rather than later the folly we see will self destruct. KFkairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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I think use of the term, 'secular fundamentalists', whenever we refer to these people, would be of immense help in this war of words. The term, 'fundamentalist', itself, of course, is a term of virulent disparagement and ridicule in the mouths of those miscreant fanatics, as they apply it to Christians and Intelligent Design adherents. It would, since they are moral relativists, wouldn't it? But it is of prime importance to deride them using words that are meaningful to them as terms of obloquy, no matter how insane the designation in itself. I'm, thinking of a brilliant Dutch soccer-player, who was pilloried by the Celtic authorities and their media minions for remarking that the pay increase they had offered to him would have insulted a homeless person. If the Apostles had been called, 'indigents', it would have been taken by them as a compliment to their other-worldly priorities; not a million miles from those of the homeless today, actually, however subliminally). So, although I wouldn't endorse Christian fundamentalism as an entirely satisfactory perspective on the Christian faith, and I respect its adherents in good faith, it is nevertheless the case that with bad people you have to frame what you say by way of deprecation in a form meaningful to them. In this case, 'fundamentalism' is used by the atheists as a term of obloquy and derision, ergo, so it needs to be thrown right back at 'em with bells on. Hence the importance, imo, of repeated use of the term, 'secular fundamentalist'. I feel it could be particularly effective in court-cases, to highlight the vapid hypocrisy of their demonising of religious faith as vacuous fundamentalism.Axel
December 17, 2013
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Wrong with the push to censor. Wrong with the willingness of the museum’s leadership to be intimidated by Darwinist thuggery — and yes, this is thuggery. Wrong with professors who should value academic freedom, freedom of expression and diversity but instead are cheering on censorship.
Valuing academic freedom is dead as a public ideal, save for when the academic freedom is being bestowed upon those who you favor. It can only exist when all sides value it - when one side fails to, it no longer makes sense for other sides to value it anymore. The short of it is - answer thuggery with thuggery. Find a ripe and juicy target. Protest, pressure, and push to have the target altered as you see fit. I don't know of any offhand, but I'm certain there are some out there. After all, it's not as if you need to have a justified case to push for what you want, anymore than Coyne's thugs were intellectually justified in what they were doing.nullasalus
December 17, 2013
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CC: Thanks for sharing a thought. Here is more from Coyne's Combox, by a JGago:
Excellent news! This was the right decision by the administrators. I have already received an email from a colleague at the Museum and this are in fact great news. I know the curators and managers at the Museum played the main role by confronting the administrators, so thanks to them and to those of you who sent emails to the administrators.
This looks a lot like a deeply entrenched institutional problem to me. Also, notice this declaration of intent by another commenter, calling himself Kevin Meredith:
Here’s what I predicted/speculated in the comments to the first post: “Now, what would be really funny is if there’s enough of an outcry, or anonymous is outed or something, so that he/she/them agrees to let the sign come down, but doesn’t insist on donation refund so as not to look any more ignorant.” The first part seems to have come true. The second part, re. what happens to the money, would be tougher to verify. Anonymous probably won’t ask for a refund of past cash, but I bet they withhold future payments, next year’s grant or whatever.
I wonder if these folks understand what they are revealing about themselves in light of their words and the mirror/projection principle given the underlying distortions, strawman tactics and hostile stereotypes? (As in why would someone clinging to a position that has to view/treat others as shown, project to others that they are "ignorant"? And why is he thinking in terms of "out[ing]" people -- as in target-painting?) KFkairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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Quote => Heaven is full of people who said "Thy will be done", while hell is full of people who said "My will be done".coldcoffee
December 17, 2013
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F/N: Let's highlight prof Coyne's declared attitude and motives behind cheering on censorship:
If I get any other information I’ll convey it, but for now I’m pleased that God is out of the Museum and no longer gets credit for “creatures.” It’s a victory for secularism, for sure.
Revealing. KFkairosfocus
December 17, 2013
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