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How do we move civilisation (and especially science, tech and math) forward?

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We are clearly in an age of reversion to oligarchic domination and lockout of dissent, so the issue is that of formation of a counter-culture, starting with the life of the mind.

H’mm, as a preliminary, let us look briefly at a refresher on a more useful ideological/political spectrum than the usual LEFT/RIGHT (which has no coherent definition of centre and right, where also Nazism/Fascism is actually of the left . . . contrary to popular notions):

This is necessary because, regrettably, power dominates over essentially anything, especially in a time of deep polarisation. We can map that through the seven mountains/pillars of influence model:

This naturally points to the cliff metaphor and warning:

Let me add, that with our bounded rationality, we need to ponder the limitations on how we think:

For there to be a choice, there has to be sober-minded thinking through of issues in fora that are not unduly censored, by people who rise above small-p party-spiritedness. Or else we turn Mencken’s cynicism into prophecy:

Accordingly, the first substantial issue is inescapable first duties of reason; which also happen to be pivotal to sound framing of law and government as well as opening the door to understanding roots of reality in a world with significantly free, rational, responsible, morally governed creatures — arguably, including us:

FIRST DUTIES OF RESPONSIBLE REASON

We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. “Inescapable,” as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Namely, duties,

1 – to truth, 

2 – to right reason, 

3 – to prudence, 

4 – to sound conscience, 

5 – to neighbour; so also, 

6 – to fairness and

 7 – justice 

x – etc.

Such built-in . . . thus, universal . . . law is not invented by parliaments, kings or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such; they are recognised, often implicitly as an indelible part of our evident nature. Hence, “natural law,” coeval with our humanity, famously phrased in terms of “self-evident . . . rights . . . endowed by our Creator” in the US Declaration of Independence, 1776. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice, the pivot of law.

The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly acquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right.

Likewise, Aristotle long since anticipated Pilate’s cynical “what is truth?”: truth says of what is, that it is; and of what is not, that it is not. [Metaphysics, 1011b, C4 BC.] Simple in concept, but hard to establish on the ground; hence — in key part — the duties to right reason, prudence, fairness etc. Where, prudence can also be seen via Aristotle’s summary:  “. . . [who aptly] defined prudence as recta ratio agibilium, ‘right reason applied to practice.’ The emphasis on ‘right’ is important . . .  Prudence requires us to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong . . . If we mistake the evil for the good, we are not exercising prudence—in fact, we are showing our lack of it.”  [NB: This implies that through sound reason and balanced, insightful judgement applied to the material evidence, factors, claims and circumstances in a situation (which may often be clouded, contentious and confusing or even willfully distorted by deceivers),  we soundly discern and warrant truth and risks or uncertainties . . . yes, we need to ponder and warrant degrees of risk and uncertainty . . . so we can confidently, soberly act as we are rightly guided. This requires that we act through trained, experienced wisdom that delights in “solid food” which is “for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.” [Heb 5:14.]

And yes, we find here no comfort for those inclined to remain over-long at the milk stage: “everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child” [v. 13]. Indeed, in the Proverbs, the simple youth are counselled to study the proverbs, precisely “to give prudence to the simple” [Prov 1:4.]  

There is no wrong in being young, simple and naive, but this is a mark of baby-hood,  and a healthy child grows beyond that stage in good time. Long delay in immaturity and in struggling to learn and master the simple is not a good sign: “though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food.” [Heb 5:12. It is of course just after this that the author points to the famous six foundational, ABC principles in 6:1 – 2, repentance, faith, baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, eternal judgement. This is what the “milk” is. Note, it is led by meta + noia, a profound change in attitude, thought patterns and inclination of life leading to a right-about turn from the wrong, false and foolish to the ways of truth and right in love to God and man.]

This, too, is how prudence becomes “auriga virtutum — the charioteer of the virtues” (as Aquinas put it); the skilled steersman who guides and controls the chariot. Or even, the ship of state (what is implicitly in view in the Proverbs: “[t]he proverbs of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel”, Prov 1:1).

From this, we may also see how the first duties naturally fall into a logical chain in light of the key factors, loving God who is Truth Himself, and loving Neighbour made in God’s image just as we are; with sound conscience as pivot:

[i] truth –> right reason –> prudence, so sound conscience clears for action. Then, through the voice of sound conscience,
[ii] love for neighbour who is as we are requires fairness and justice etc.]

Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law.

The first duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifest our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God, the necessary (so, eternal), maximally great being at the root of reality.

This is where we must begin. Without this, there is no basis for that comity required to have sound academic disciplines, much less general public policy or even current events discussion. The ever-eager Red Guard censors are at our heels.

The case of Mathematics is central.

Mathematics, being best understood as [The study of] the logic of structure and quantity, where certain core intelligible mathematical facts are framework to any possible world (= a sufficiently complete chain of propositions describing a possible state of affairs), and lead to a programme of analysis and elaboration of logic-model worlds that may then apply to relevant situations of interest. For example, per von Neumann:

{} –> 0
{0} –> 1
{0,1} –> 2
. . . .
{0,1,2 . . .) –> w, omega

From reflecting on the principle of distinct identity, we see that for a world W to be distinct from some arbitrarily close neighbour W’, we have some A in W that is not in W’, so

W = {A|~A} and also W = {A|W’}, thence,

we see the partition | is empty, manifesting nullity.

A is a simple and ~A = W’ is a complex, unity.

With distinct unities, we find duality, and already we see that von Neumann’s framework applies to any distinct world.

It is truly universal, i.e. we find the natural counting numbers, N as an abstract structure necessarily present in and framework to any possible world.

From N, we can define additive inverses so for n in N, -n is such that n + (-n) = 0, i.e. we have that vector set where elements have both size and direction in an abstract space, the integers Z. Taking ratios, we have the rationals, Q. Reals bring in transfinite converging sums of rationals without repeating cycles when displayed in place value form, R. From that we go in a second orthogonal spatial direction, to C, using the j* rotating operator: j*x for all x in R defines the imaginary axis by anticlockwise rotation through one right angle and j*j* x is – x so we see j is sqrt – 1.

Beyond we define the hyperreals R* on the reals R being mileposted by N. H = 1/h, where h is smaller than 1/n for any finite n in N, where for any k in N the von Neumann succession continues k+1, k+2 etc, i.e. we cannot exhaust N stepwise. From this h is an infinitesimal hyperreal near 0; H is a transfinite integer hyperreal and we see a connected domain from zero and N,Z,Q,R to the hyper-domain R* such that any r in R may be surrounded by an infinitesimally altered cloud of form r + h, *r*, in effect vector shifting and adding the cloud *0* to r. (This allows us to use Robinson’s tamed infinitesimals and Model Theory etc to view Calculus as an extension of algebra.)

Notice, we have nowhere specified a particular individual world, this holds for any distinct world, for all possible worlds. It is reality-universal and possibility-universal. That is, a core domain of numbers, associated relationships and operations is a body of abstracta framework for any possible world, physical or imaginary. Hence, immediately, some of the universal power of both mathematics and logic. Hence too, we can recognise a category of beings, necessary, world framework entities; abstracta that constrain what is possible, by laying out constraints on possible being.

We can pause to summarise key first principles of right reason:

If we want a bit more on the first triad:

Laws of logic in action as glorified common-sense first principles of right reason

Where, we may ponder Science and linked technology (Computing being in key part a technology of Mathematics, which obviously is not an empirical science but a logic-constrained and guided field of study), as a domain of inductive reason pivoting on inference to best current — hopefully progressive — explanation:

Abductive, inductive reasoning and the inherent provisionality of scientific theorising

These, we must not lose sight of, or all will be lost.

Going forward, that we are morally governed creatures has profound worldview import. For, at least one possible world, which is actualised, has in it such creatures. The root of all reality must be such that such a world is adequately accounted for.

That opens the door to serious consideration of ethical theism, which posits that the explanation for such a world is the inherently good, utterly wise creator God, a necessary [worlds-framework and so too eternal] and maximally great being.

These, we must not lose sight of. END

PS: Eugenics Congress:

Logo, 2nd Int’l Congress, Eugenics Movement, 1921 [HT: Wiki]

U/D1 Jan 12: An adapted Overton Window analysis, applied to the peril of the new Jacobins:

U/D2, Jan 13, the issue of the crooked yardstick:

In that light, consider Plato’s parable of the cave:

Not, as a fallacious cosmology but as a study on how a manipulated public reacts to truth. Ask yourselves, who is running the puppet shadow-show confused for reality and who is running the prison that locks up denizens from discovering the truth for themselves. (Then, ponder the course of current events.)

U/D3, Jan 18: Impact of cumulative evidence, as a part of first principles of reason in an inductive context:

Of chains, ropes and cumulative cases

U/D4 Jan 18, to point to the documentation of the McFaul Colour Revolution programme and the SOCOM Insurgency Escalator:

Where, note from the earlier U-Haul a Riot thread on red guard street theatre operations tied to radical Jacobin networks . . . there is much more behind that:

That is, it seems there is little matter of who is rioting to be addressed.

Where, this summary of points of concern by Navarro is a good place to begin pondering the “baseless” talking point that was used below to personally attack me as poster of the OP and host of the live event tracking threads:

U/D5, Jan 19: It is becoming apparent that as part of reforming thinking we need to re-orient our understanding of war, strategy and associated operations in light of the unlimited scope, full spectrum of force options, social- space- is- the- battlespace evolution of warfare under 4th generation war principles. First, while we may not be interested in war — in a world of ruthless geostrategic operators who lack power to simply steamroller those blocking imposition of their will — the vultures not the eagles — war may well be interested in us.

So, if near-perpetual war is in every sphere and across the spectrum of force options (most often non kinetic) we need to map the social space, so let me repeat the seven mountains/pillars of influence model:

Where, we can map the evolution of war:

In that context, let us note on Unrestricted Warfare, using a summary of the 1999 work by PLA Air Force Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui:

In 1999, two Chinese colonels wrote a book called Unrestricted Warfare, about warfare in the age of globalization. Their main argument: Warfare in the modern world will no longer be primarily a struggle defined by military means — or even involve the military at all.

They were about a decade and a half before their time.

Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui argued that war was no longer about “using armed forces to compel the enemy to submit to one’s will” in the classic Clausewitzian sense. Rather, they asserted that war had evolved to “using all means, including armed force or non-armed force, military and non-military, and lethal and non-lethal means to compel the enemy to accept one’s interests.” The barrier between soldiers and civilians would fundamentally be erased, because the battle would be everywhere. The number of new battlefields would be “virtually infinite,” and could include environmental warfare, financial warfare, trade warfare, cultural warfare, and legal warfare, to name just a few. They wrote of assassinating financial speculators to safeguard a nation’s financial security, setting up slush funds to influence opponents’ legislatures and governments, and buying controlling shares of stocks to convert an adversary’s major television and newspapers outlets into tools of media warfare. According to the editor’s note, Qiao argued in a subsequent interview that “the first rule of unrestricted warfare is that there are no rules, with nothing forbidden.” That vision clearly transcends any traditional notions of war.

Unrestricted Warfare was an explicit response to the reigning Western military orthodoxy of the time. The preface is dated January 17, 1999, which the authors note was the eighth anniversary of the outbreak of the 1991 Gulf War. In many ways, their argument refuted many of the Western lessons drawn from that conflict: that wars could be short, sharp, and dominated by high-technology weaponry used with stunning precision to shatter an enemy’s armed forces in hours or days. By 1999, U.S. military thinking was dominated by the revolution in military affairs and network centric-warfare, which relied on advanced technologies to give the United States total battlefield dominance.

But Qiao and Wang argued that the battlefield had fundamentally changed. It was no longer a place where militaries met and fought; instead, society itself was now the battlefield. Future wars would inevitably encompass attacks on all elements of society without limits. Military battles resembling those of 1991 might become secondary elements of conflict — if they even occurred at all.

In short, war that by and large does not SEEM to be war due to lack of naked high kinetic weaponry in action. War that is only visible as war once one recognises the involvement of ruthless domination and subjugation by use of force and deception. Force, that is often masked as legitimate actions (often, by turnabout projections of blame . . . maskirovka); force calibrated to seem legitimate to the superficial onlooker.

Force, that needs not involve state actors or states. Which, gives it its 4th generational character.

War waged by vultures in the shadows, not just obvious ones in the sky.

War, that is only over, when the vultures themselves are checkmated and irrecoverably defeated. With history signposted so they cannot regroup to rebrand and come again, as obviously has happened with Marxism’s shiny new brand, critical theories.

U/D6, Jan 19: Ms Clinton and Ms Pelosi, unsubstantiated accusation of treason, screenshot:

Comments
I think it appropriate to let Scripture have the last word, here, Ac 27: >> Acts 27 English Standard Version Paul Sails for Rome 27 And when it was decided that we should sail for Italy, they delivered Paul and some other prisoners to a centurion of the Augustan Cohort named Julius. 2 And embarking in a ship of Adramyttium, which was about to sail to the ports along the coast of Asia, we put to sea, accompanied by Aristarchus, a Macedonian from Thessalonica. 3 The next day we put in at Sidon. And Julius treated Paul kindly and gave him leave to go to his friends and be cared for. 4 And putting out to sea from there we sailed under the lee of Cyprus, because the winds were against us. 5 And when we had sailed across the open sea along the coast of Cilicia and Pamphylia, we came to Myra in Lycia. 6 There the centurion found a ship of Alexandria sailing for Italy and put us on board. 7 We sailed slowly for a number of days and arrived with difficulty off Cnidus, and as the wind did not allow us to go farther, we sailed under the lee of Crete off Salmone. 8 Coasting along it with difficulty, we came to a place called Fair Havens, near which was the city of Lasea. 9 Since much time had passed, and the voyage was now dangerous because even the Fast[a] was already over, Paul advised them, 10 saying, “Sirs, I perceive that the voyage will be with injury and much loss, not only of the cargo and the ship, but also of our lives.” 11 But the centurion paid more attention to the pilot and to the owner of the ship than to what Paul said. 12 And because the harbor was not suitable to spend the winter in, the majority decided to put out to sea from there, on the chance that somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing both southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there. The Storm at Sea 13 Now when the south wind blew gently, supposing that they had obtained their purpose, they weighed anchor and sailed along Crete, close to the shore. 14 But soon a tempestuous wind, called the northeaster, struck down from the land. 15 And when the ship was caught and could not face the wind, we gave way to it and were driven along. 16 Running under the lee of a small island called Cauda,[b] we managed with difficulty to secure the ship's boat. 17 After hoisting it up, they used supports to undergird the ship. Then, fearing that they would run aground on the Syrtis, they lowered the gear,[c] and thus they were driven along. 18 Since we were violently storm-tossed, they began the next day to jettison the cargo. 19 And on the third day they threw the ship's tackle overboard with their own hands. 20 When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope of our being saved was at last abandoned. 21 Since they had been without food for a long time, Paul stood up among them and said, “Men, you should have listened to me and not have set sail from Crete and incurred this injury and loss. 22 Yet now I urge you to take heart, for there will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship. 23 For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship, 24 and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar. And behold, God has granted you all those who sail with you.’ 25 So take heart, men, for I have faith in God that it will be exactly as I have been told. 26 But we must run aground on some island.” 27 When the fourteenth night had come, as we were being driven across the Adriatic Sea, about midnight the sailors suspected that they were nearing land. 28 So they took a sounding and found twenty fathoms.[d] A little farther on they took a sounding again and found fifteen fathoms.[e] 29 And fearing that we might run on the rocks, they let down four anchors from the stern and prayed for day to come. 30 And as the sailors were seeking to escape from the ship, and had lowered the ship's boat into the sea under pretense of laying out anchors from the bow, 31 Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay in the ship, you cannot be saved.” 32 Then the soldiers cut away the ropes of the ship's boat and let it go. 33 As day was about to dawn, Paul urged them all to take some food, saying, “Today is the fourteenth day that you have continued in suspense and without food, having taken nothing. 34 Therefore I urge you to take some food. For it will give you strength,[f] for not a hair is to perish from the head of any of you.” 35 And when he had said these things, he took bread, and giving thanks to God in the presence of all he broke it and began to eat. 36 Then they all were encouraged and ate some food themselves. 37 (We were in all 276[g] persons in the ship.) 38 And when they had eaten enough, they lightened the ship, throwing out the wheat into the sea. The Shipwreck 39 Now when it was day, they did not recognize the land, but they noticed a bay with a beach, on which they planned if possible to run the ship ashore. 40 So they cast off the anchors and left them in the sea, at the same time loosening the ropes that tied the rudders. Then hoisting the foresail to the wind they made for the beach. 41 But striking a reef,[h] they ran the vessel aground. The bow stuck and remained immovable, and the stern was being broken up by the surf. 42 The soldiers' plan was to kill the prisoners, lest any should swim away and escape. 43 But the centurion, wishing to save Paul, kept them from carrying out their plan. He ordered those who could swim to jump overboard first and make for the land, 44 and the rest on planks or on pieces of the ship. And so it was that all were brought safely to land. Footnotes Acts 27:9 That is, the Day of Atonement Acts 27:16 Some manuscripts Clauda Acts 27:17 That is, the sea-anchor (or possibly the mainsail) Acts 27:28 About 120 feet; a fathom (Greek orguia) was about 6 feet or 2 meters Acts 27:28 About 90 feet (see previous note) Acts 27:34 Or For it is for your deliverance Acts 27:37 Some manuscripts seventy-six, or about seventy-six Acts 27:41 Or sandbank, or crosscurrent; Greek place between two seas>> (This text is a report of an actual event, one that is a microcosm of [mis-]governance and the course of civilisation. Luke gives it prominence as part of the conclusion to his 60+ year study of the founding era of the Christian Faith and how it spread among the nations. The echoes of Plato's Ship of State are there, as I have often noted. See my comments here. Words, however prudent, nor money-backed manipulation and raw ruthless force of mere men will not have the last word. There is One who rules over the affairs of men and through the typhoon-force storms that break the cleverest schemes, he prevails.) KF PS: I just noticed, 476 AD is of course the conventional date for the collapse of the Western Roman Empire.kairosfocus
January 20, 2021
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FOOTNOTES: To start with, I will cite a comment on discernment and confidence in the face of a world of the ruthlessly deceitful, from a manual of soundness for those charged to steer the ship of state in ancient Israel:
Prov 27:24 Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart; 25 when he speaks graciously, believe him not, for there are seven abominations in his heart; 26 though his hatred be covered with deception, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly. 27 Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling. 28 A lying tongue hates its victims, and a flattering mouth works ruin. [ESV]
To move civilisation forward will first and foremost take sound discernment and prudence. Where, prudence -- right reason directed to habitually right action -- is a microcosm of the seven inescapable first duties of reason I have emphasised in this thread: to truth, to right reason, to prudence itself, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so too to fairness and to justice, etc. These, even evaders, belittlers, side-trackers and outright deniers cannot but imply appeal to, simply to gain traction with their arguments. They are self evidently true and coeval with our rational ensouled nature as self-moved, morally governed creatures. Creatures in the end accountable before the inherently good, utterly wise root of reality, a necessary and maximally great being: the creator God so many are ill-advisedly wont to dismiss or ignore. Can progress in these be measured? Per the NOIR frame of scales, yes, at least as a ranked, ordered metric on soundness, with folly and utter demonic evil at one end and sound wisdom marked by prudence at the helm of the main institutions on the other. Fair comment, our civilisation is far closer to suicidal folly dominated by demonic evil and deception than to soundness. Hence the needless storm and the sandbars of Syrtis ahead on line of drift. If you want, a behavioually anchored rating scale can be constructed and evidence may be adduced. The exhibit a will be the ongoing holocaust of our living posterity in the womb and the consequent mass blood guilt that is even more corrupting of sound mind than mere filthy lucre and perverted lusts. Guilty, guilty, guilty as charged. I suppose, if further moved I may add updates to this comment for record, but at this point, we stand indicted. KF U/D1: Already Error 404 memory-holed at WH dot gov, a harbinger of things to come.kairosfocus
January 20, 2021
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Q “Yes, President Biden will make all your dreams come true. Haha” Yeh if your a multi millionaire, billionaire and China for starters. For all his talk about making Govt look like America I suspect there were not many average working Americans invited to his inaugural speech today. Believe what you see. So WHO put on their website that PCR testing has overstated the number of Covid positives and will adjust accordingly, reportedly they did this 1 hour after Biden was sworn in. Next thing will be studies that show lock downs kill more people than the virus itself. See how that works? Vividvividbleau
January 20, 2021
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ES, this is very easy to research yourself. In the case of the GA audit the Georgia bureau of investigation carried out it.orthomyxo
January 20, 2021
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Seversky @465, Yes, President Biden will make all your dreams come true. Haha.
A cry for racial justice some 400 years in the making moves us . . .
No, it was actually Martin Luther King’s brilliant speech “I have a dream” that was delivered in Washington D.C. in 1963 says it all. It’s worth rereading if you truly care: https://www.naacp.org/i-have-a-dream-speech-full-march-on-washington/ No, the demagogues in politics will always say this was 400, 600, or if they remain in power, 10,000 years in the making. They will spend heroic amounts of money on their friends and principle supporters with absolutely NO tangible change. But you voted for Biden and apparently this is your tithe to the church of politics, absolving you of any need for further personal action. There are other people who have taken direct, positive, non-violent, non-political action and did this because it was the right thing to do, not because they were being paid $600,000 a year to make lofty promises, attend lavish conferences and edit final reports that no one reads. But I guess it must salve your conscience. -QQuerius
January 20, 2021
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LarTanner @461,
There are several different measurements we might choose.
Sorry, but there’s only one metric that matters to the U.S. Civil Service and that’s called “budget.” There’s only one metric that matters to quasi-governmental organizations and that’s called “funding.” And there’s only one metric that matters to special interests, and that’s friendly legislation. Historically, if the rate of budget/funding increase is less than previous years, it’s called a “budget cut.” Budgets and funding are measured in U.S. dollars. And special interests pay in U.S. dollars to get friendly legislation. It’s all about money and nothing about performance or actual change. The rest is cheap baloney. -QQuerius
January 20, 2021
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And who are the independent observers at those audits please produce their names thankses58
January 20, 2021
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Do you have any proof that signatures were validated by a bi-partisan approach for mail in ballots? If not that is proof that those ballots that were not so validated were fraudulently counted and should be dismissed.
I'm not sure if you've been paying attention but the audits and lawsuits associated with signatures didn't find anything amiss (eg. https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authenticity-of-absentee-ballots/QF2PTOGHLNDLNDJEWBU56WEQHM/).orthomyxo
January 20, 2021
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You know Trump did a good job when this appears.
Good Riddance Donald Trump Chinese Communist News Service
https://mobile.twitter.com/XHNews/status/1351801624906252299jerry
January 20, 2021
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God, Please help the USA. There are 2 incompetent fools in the White House. Every time I look @ Biden I hear dueling banjos. The next 4 years are going to be very entertaining. Career politicians, like Biden and Harris, will say anything but watch how little they do to make their speeches come to fruition.ET
January 20, 2021
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A cry for racial justice some 400 years in the making moves us. The dream of justice for all will be deferred no longer.
From the man who helped move Bill Clinton's crime bill through Congress. Then lied about what Trump said about Charlottesville. Can anyone show that the US is not the least racist country in world today?
Orlando Patterson, a black sociologist at Harvard, said about 20 years ago concerning the United States
America, while still flawed in its race relations ... is now the least racist white- majority society in the world; has a better record of legal protection of minorities than any other society, white or black; offers more opportunities to a greater number of black persons than any other society, including all those of Africa
jerry
January 20, 2021
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Querius/459
Seversky, How can you concur when “Black Lives Matter” wasn’t mentioned? Surely, this is a higher priority issue that demands more federal investment than the others on the list supplied by Steve Alten2?
President Biden,
A cry for racial justice some 400 years in the making moves us. The dream of justice for all will be deferred no longer.
I'd say that covers it.Seversky
January 20, 2021
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Maybe someone should define what is meant by civilization. It’s kind of hard deciding if something is getting better or moving forward if there is no definition of it. I’m not sure what science, technology and math have to do with civilization. I know their value but not sure they are the same issues.jerry
January 20, 2021
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I’m just showing that garbage evidence can be dismissed
Do you have any proof that signatures were validated by a bi-partisan approach for mail in ballots? If not that is proof that those ballots that were not so validated were fraudulently counted and should be dismissed.jerry
January 20, 2021
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Ortho, all you are doing is showing that evidence can be dismissed through selective hyperskepticism, especially in a polarised situation. That is a key part of the problem that we have to face and resolve if we are to move forward as a civilisation. I stand by my remarks on the nature of witness. KF
I'm just showing that garbage evidence can be dismissed by, you know, assessing it and realising it's garbage. You seem completely unable to offer a single specific line of evidence, and instead rely on this whispy allusions to mountains fo evidence. When you chip away and any part of this mountain you find it's entirely made of garbage. Bob O'H and I have offered you the chance to present you best case quite a few times now. I don't doubt offering again will be met with more of this "moral duty" "tainted" this, "eye witness" that but no specific evidence at all. But, and I've said this lots of times already, the fact there are loads of claims is not evidence for anything unless those claims are well-supported. And you won't support any claim.orthomyxo
January 20, 2021
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There needs to be some tangible measure of the investment and results to know whether you’ve moved civilization forward.
There are several different measurements we might choose. I have not checked, but I would be unsurprised to learn there are one or more organizations that maintain just these sorts of metrics. They might include rolling statistics on poverty, illness, crime, political persecution, wealth distribution, and any number of additional factors. We may not all agree on which specific factors are important or their relative importance. We also may disagree on the best way (or acceptable trade-offs) to achieve improvement in some factors. I wonder what some people here would say are reasonable trade-offs to achieve specific cultural/political outcomes.LarTanner
January 20, 2021
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Steve Alten2, Resources are always limited. Let's put it this way. Let's say you had $100 to spend this next year. How much of that $100 would you spend on each of the problems in your list? There needs to be some tangible measure of the investment and results to know whether you've moved civilization forward. Besides, each department in the government will receive a fixed (not unlimited) amount of budget. Or I suppose you could spend it on writing poems on how much better things are . . . -QQuerius
January 20, 2021
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Seversky, How can you concur when "Black Lives Matter" wasn't mentioned? Surely, this is a higher priority issue that demands more federal investment than the others on the list supplied by Steve Alten2? Do you understand this in context with Steve Alten2's point about the centrality (crux) of determining what moves civilization forward? -QQuerius
January 20, 2021
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Sincere congrats to China!mike1962
January 20, 2021
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Querius “ Which one of the issues you listed in your post comes first? Which comes last?“ I don’t look at it as a ranking. If I can justify any of these using logic, reason and evidence then accepting it is a move forward. “ You didn’t mention racial inequality.” That and many others are included. I just provided a short list. As I mention above, I don’t think ranking them is of value other than setting priorities of what to tackle first if resources are limited. For example, allowing SSM and preventing employment restrictions based on sexual orientation is not resource intensive. Solving racial discrimination, however, is a far more complicated issue, requiring significant resources.Steve Alten2
January 20, 2021
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It has been said on UD, by the anti-ID people no less, that the measure of any society if how it treats its most vulnerable. Everything else would be secondary. Right now we allow our most vulnerable to be killed, at will. So until we fix that stupidity there isn't much hope. As for the asinine "what would you do with all those babies?"- The same thing you would do with all of the survivors of the wars you so desperately oppose, hypocrite.ET
January 20, 2021
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LarTanner/451
Congratulations are due to the United States and the world for the inauguration of President Biden and Vice-President Harris. The inauguration speech was wonderful, and the poetry of Amanda Gorman was exhilarating. Civilization has been moved forward today, even as we acknowledge those lost to the pandemic and the serious challenges of the day.
Concur.Seversky
January 20, 2021
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Steve Alten2, Yes, agree in principle. But how do you evaluate your priorities? Which one of the issues you listed in your post comes first? Which comes last? You didn't mention racial inequality. This affects a relatively large percentage of U.S. citizens, much larger than the number of people affected by discrimination against homosexuals. Shouldn't that be higher on your list? Healthcare (including pharmaceutical price gouging) affects a majority of Americans, so shouldn't this top your list? Or maybe fixing the environment should be at the top of your list since it affects everyone. Not every issue gets equal funding and you can be assured that every department in government would like to expand its budget by a factor of three, and could justify the investment. Another important issue is to determine whether the solution actually SOLVES the problem. For example, a "single payer healthcare" system is the highly touted solution to the problem of affordable healthcare. Once its proponents achieve their goal of nationalizing the healthcare industry, the efficacy of the solution is inevitably assigned to unaccountable bureaucrats and put on the back burner. Don't believe me? Consider the horrible past track record of the VA hospitals where veterans who needed urgent care were put on a wait list that resulted in many of them dying before they could get the care they needed. Or to put it in a less U.S. political context, a colleague of mine in a European country broke his collarbone. His national healthcare system chose not to have his collarbone set end-to-end as you might expect, but partially overlapping. This gave him a lump there and his one shoulder was shorter than the other. The explanation he received was that setting the bone properly would be *expensive* and besides, he was over 50 years old . . . he had no recourse. So, what's your priority list and how did you assigned the priorities to each one? -QQuerius
January 20, 2021
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Querius "Yes! And you raise an important point. How is moving civilization forward evaluated?" This is the crux of the issue. There are several active commenters on this thread and I suspect that we would each differ on what we would consider a move "forward". For example, I would think that we are moving forward if we have greater acceptance of homosexuality (SSM), single payer health care for everyone, equal pay for women, one year paid maternity leave with job guarantee, legalization and regulation of recreational cannabis, enhanced gun control, and many other things. However, I suspect that Kairosfocus and others would disagree with one or more of these.Steve Alten2
January 20, 2021
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LarTanner, Yes! And you raise an important point. How is moving civilization forward evaluated? Is it through personalities, promises, and poetry? Most people think so. As long as everything is interpreted as sweetness and light, then civilization obviously has been moved forward! On the other hand, if there’s a lot of political hatred and polarization, then economic prosperity, progress in social issues, a vaccine for a pandemic, stabilizing of international relations, and so on is completely meaningless and civilization has regressed! Thank you for the profound insight. -QQuerius
January 20, 2021
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Congratulations are due to the United States and the world for the inauguration of President Biden and Vice-President Harris. The inauguration speech was wonderful, and the poetry of Amanda Gorman was exhilarating. Civilization has been moved forward today, even as we acknowledge those lost to the pandemic and the serious challenges of the day.LarTanner
January 20, 2021
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Kairosfocus "SA2, you are doubling down on false accusations and manifestly improper projections; " What false accusations? Powell has made numerous false and unsubstantiated accusations against Dominion. This is on the record and easy to confirm. For example, Dominion has had zero association with Hugo Chavez or SmartMatic. "At this point, for cause, your credibility is effectively nil and your attempts to besmirch the despised other simply speak to your own condition." Project much? "Then, the only relevant matter in regard to your argumentation is therefore, how do we diagnose and address the problem. KF" You deal with the evidence in court where witnesses can be cross-examined. And if the actions of some have caused damage to yourself or your company, you sue these people in court where, if they are unable to back up their accusations with clear evidence, they are punished for their actions.Steve Alten2
January 20, 2021
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kf @ 446 - that's odd. So was I. We know from one court case in Michigan that the judge did not think the allegations of fraud had any merit, so presumably they were mistakes. That suggests that other pieces of evidence might be as well. So I think it is worth your while looking at the evidence more critically: some of it has already been evaluated in the courts and found wanting.Bob O'H
January 20, 2021
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Kf,
attempt to extrapolate from an error admitted and corrected to dismissal of the whole is a very familiar tactic of hyperskeptical dismissiveness
Nitpicking is always an admission of agreement. It’s called the Nirvana fallacy. It is why the anti ID people here are the best evidence for ID. All their objections are trivial when they are not in fact wrong.jerry
January 20, 2021
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how many of those 1600 pieces of evidence that you say are evidence of fraud are actually mistakes and “not calculated deception”?
Glad to see you are pushing for an open debate and investigation of election fraud to see which claims have merit. That is what the response should be to claims of election fraud - to show which side is right. That would make the Biden win rock solid which surely he and the left wants. And to discredit Trump who claims it was stolen. And you agree any attempt to limit or shut down debate in such a scenario is an admission that there was fraud and Trump was correct.
Move along. Nothing to see here.
So you must be against sedition laws wherever they pop up. And absolutely for bi partisan ballot signature verification. I’m glad to see you’re aboard with the rest of us wanting a close examination of the election.jerry
January 20, 2021
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