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How do we move civilisation (and especially science, tech and math) forward?

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We are clearly in an age of reversion to oligarchic domination and lockout of dissent, so the issue is that of formation of a counter-culture, starting with the life of the mind.

H’mm, as a preliminary, let us look briefly at a refresher on a more useful ideological/political spectrum than the usual LEFT/RIGHT (which has no coherent definition of centre and right, where also Nazism/Fascism is actually of the left . . . contrary to popular notions):

This is necessary because, regrettably, power dominates over essentially anything, especially in a time of deep polarisation. We can map that through the seven mountains/pillars of influence model:

This naturally points to the cliff metaphor and warning:

Let me add, that with our bounded rationality, we need to ponder the limitations on how we think:

For there to be a choice, there has to be sober-minded thinking through of issues in fora that are not unduly censored, by people who rise above small-p party-spiritedness. Or else we turn Mencken’s cynicism into prophecy:

Accordingly, the first substantial issue is inescapable first duties of reason; which also happen to be pivotal to sound framing of law and government as well as opening the door to understanding roots of reality in a world with significantly free, rational, responsible, morally governed creatures — arguably, including us:

FIRST DUTIES OF RESPONSIBLE REASON

We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. “Inescapable,” as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Namely, duties,

1 – to truth, 

2 – to right reason, 

3 – to prudence, 

4 – to sound conscience, 

5 – to neighbour; so also, 

6 – to fairness and

 7 – justice 

x – etc.

Such built-in . . . thus, universal . . . law is not invented by parliaments, kings or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such; they are recognised, often implicitly as an indelible part of our evident nature. Hence, “natural law,” coeval with our humanity, famously phrased in terms of “self-evident . . . rights . . . endowed by our Creator” in the US Declaration of Independence, 1776. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice, the pivot of law.

The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly acquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right.

Likewise, Aristotle long since anticipated Pilate’s cynical “what is truth?”: truth says of what is, that it is; and of what is not, that it is not. [Metaphysics, 1011b, C4 BC.] Simple in concept, but hard to establish on the ground; hence — in key part — the duties to right reason, prudence, fairness etc. Where, prudence can also be seen via Aristotle’s summary:  “. . . [who aptly] defined prudence as recta ratio agibilium, ‘right reason applied to practice.’ The emphasis on ‘right’ is important . . .  Prudence requires us to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong . . . If we mistake the evil for the good, we are not exercising prudence—in fact, we are showing our lack of it.”  [NB: This implies that through sound reason and balanced, insightful judgement applied to the material evidence, factors, claims and circumstances in a situation (which may often be clouded, contentious and confusing or even willfully distorted by deceivers),  we soundly discern and warrant truth and risks or uncertainties . . . yes, we need to ponder and warrant degrees of risk and uncertainty . . . so we can confidently, soberly act as we are rightly guided. This requires that we act through trained, experienced wisdom that delights in “solid food” which is “for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.” [Heb 5:14.]

And yes, we find here no comfort for those inclined to remain over-long at the milk stage: “everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child” [v. 13]. Indeed, in the Proverbs, the simple youth are counselled to study the proverbs, precisely “to give prudence to the simple” [Prov 1:4.]  

There is no wrong in being young, simple and naive, but this is a mark of baby-hood,  and a healthy child grows beyond that stage in good time. Long delay in immaturity and in struggling to learn and master the simple is not a good sign: “though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food.” [Heb 5:12. It is of course just after this that the author points to the famous six foundational, ABC principles in 6:1 – 2, repentance, faith, baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, eternal judgement. This is what the “milk” is. Note, it is led by meta + noia, a profound change in attitude, thought patterns and inclination of life leading to a right-about turn from the wrong, false and foolish to the ways of truth and right in love to God and man.]

This, too, is how prudence becomes “auriga virtutum — the charioteer of the virtues” (as Aquinas put it); the skilled steersman who guides and controls the chariot. Or even, the ship of state (what is implicitly in view in the Proverbs: “[t]he proverbs of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel”, Prov 1:1).

From this, we may also see how the first duties naturally fall into a logical chain in light of the key factors, loving God who is Truth Himself, and loving Neighbour made in God’s image just as we are; with sound conscience as pivot:

[i] truth –> right reason –> prudence, so sound conscience clears for action. Then, through the voice of sound conscience,
[ii] love for neighbour who is as we are requires fairness and justice etc.]

Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law.

The first duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifest our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God, the necessary (so, eternal), maximally great being at the root of reality.

This is where we must begin. Without this, there is no basis for that comity required to have sound academic disciplines, much less general public policy or even current events discussion. The ever-eager Red Guard censors are at our heels.

The case of Mathematics is central.

Mathematics, being best understood as [The study of] the logic of structure and quantity, where certain core intelligible mathematical facts are framework to any possible world (= a sufficiently complete chain of propositions describing a possible state of affairs), and lead to a programme of analysis and elaboration of logic-model worlds that may then apply to relevant situations of interest. For example, per von Neumann:

{} –> 0
{0} –> 1
{0,1} –> 2
. . . .
{0,1,2 . . .) –> w, omega

From reflecting on the principle of distinct identity, we see that for a world W to be distinct from some arbitrarily close neighbour W’, we have some A in W that is not in W’, so

W = {A|~A} and also W = {A|W’}, thence,

we see the partition | is empty, manifesting nullity.

A is a simple and ~A = W’ is a complex, unity.

With distinct unities, we find duality, and already we see that von Neumann’s framework applies to any distinct world.

It is truly universal, i.e. we find the natural counting numbers, N as an abstract structure necessarily present in and framework to any possible world.

From N, we can define additive inverses so for n in N, -n is such that n + (-n) = 0, i.e. we have that vector set where elements have both size and direction in an abstract space, the integers Z. Taking ratios, we have the rationals, Q. Reals bring in transfinite converging sums of rationals without repeating cycles when displayed in place value form, R. From that we go in a second orthogonal spatial direction, to C, using the j* rotating operator: j*x for all x in R defines the imaginary axis by anticlockwise rotation through one right angle and j*j* x is – x so we see j is sqrt – 1.

Beyond we define the hyperreals R* on the reals R being mileposted by N. H = 1/h, where h is smaller than 1/n for any finite n in N, where for any k in N the von Neumann succession continues k+1, k+2 etc, i.e. we cannot exhaust N stepwise. From this h is an infinitesimal hyperreal near 0; H is a transfinite integer hyperreal and we see a connected domain from zero and N,Z,Q,R to the hyper-domain R* such that any r in R may be surrounded by an infinitesimally altered cloud of form r + h, *r*, in effect vector shifting and adding the cloud *0* to r. (This allows us to use Robinson’s tamed infinitesimals and Model Theory etc to view Calculus as an extension of algebra.)

Notice, we have nowhere specified a particular individual world, this holds for any distinct world, for all possible worlds. It is reality-universal and possibility-universal. That is, a core domain of numbers, associated relationships and operations is a body of abstracta framework for any possible world, physical or imaginary. Hence, immediately, some of the universal power of both mathematics and logic. Hence too, we can recognise a category of beings, necessary, world framework entities; abstracta that constrain what is possible, by laying out constraints on possible being.

We can pause to summarise key first principles of right reason:

If we want a bit more on the first triad:

Laws of logic in action as glorified common-sense first principles of right reason

Where, we may ponder Science and linked technology (Computing being in key part a technology of Mathematics, which obviously is not an empirical science but a logic-constrained and guided field of study), as a domain of inductive reason pivoting on inference to best current — hopefully progressive — explanation:

Abductive, inductive reasoning and the inherent provisionality of scientific theorising

These, we must not lose sight of, or all will be lost.

Going forward, that we are morally governed creatures has profound worldview import. For, at least one possible world, which is actualised, has in it such creatures. The root of all reality must be such that such a world is adequately accounted for.

That opens the door to serious consideration of ethical theism, which posits that the explanation for such a world is the inherently good, utterly wise creator God, a necessary [worlds-framework and so too eternal] and maximally great being.

These, we must not lose sight of. END

PS: Eugenics Congress:

Logo, 2nd Int’l Congress, Eugenics Movement, 1921 [HT: Wiki]

U/D1 Jan 12: An adapted Overton Window analysis, applied to the peril of the new Jacobins:

U/D2, Jan 13, the issue of the crooked yardstick:

In that light, consider Plato’s parable of the cave:

Not, as a fallacious cosmology but as a study on how a manipulated public reacts to truth. Ask yourselves, who is running the puppet shadow-show confused for reality and who is running the prison that locks up denizens from discovering the truth for themselves. (Then, ponder the course of current events.)

U/D3, Jan 18: Impact of cumulative evidence, as a part of first principles of reason in an inductive context:

Of chains, ropes and cumulative cases

U/D4 Jan 18, to point to the documentation of the McFaul Colour Revolution programme and the SOCOM Insurgency Escalator:

Where, note from the earlier U-Haul a Riot thread on red guard street theatre operations tied to radical Jacobin networks . . . there is much more behind that:

That is, it seems there is little matter of who is rioting to be addressed.

Where, this summary of points of concern by Navarro is a good place to begin pondering the “baseless” talking point that was used below to personally attack me as poster of the OP and host of the live event tracking threads:

U/D5, Jan 19: It is becoming apparent that as part of reforming thinking we need to re-orient our understanding of war, strategy and associated operations in light of the unlimited scope, full spectrum of force options, social- space- is- the- battlespace evolution of warfare under 4th generation war principles. First, while we may not be interested in war — in a world of ruthless geostrategic operators who lack power to simply steamroller those blocking imposition of their will — the vultures not the eagles — war may well be interested in us.

So, if near-perpetual war is in every sphere and across the spectrum of force options (most often non kinetic) we need to map the social space, so let me repeat the seven mountains/pillars of influence model:

Where, we can map the evolution of war:

In that context, let us note on Unrestricted Warfare, using a summary of the 1999 work by PLA Air Force Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui:

In 1999, two Chinese colonels wrote a book called Unrestricted Warfare, about warfare in the age of globalization. Their main argument: Warfare in the modern world will no longer be primarily a struggle defined by military means — or even involve the military at all.

They were about a decade and a half before their time.

Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui argued that war was no longer about “using armed forces to compel the enemy to submit to one’s will” in the classic Clausewitzian sense. Rather, they asserted that war had evolved to “using all means, including armed force or non-armed force, military and non-military, and lethal and non-lethal means to compel the enemy to accept one’s interests.” The barrier between soldiers and civilians would fundamentally be erased, because the battle would be everywhere. The number of new battlefields would be “virtually infinite,” and could include environmental warfare, financial warfare, trade warfare, cultural warfare, and legal warfare, to name just a few. They wrote of assassinating financial speculators to safeguard a nation’s financial security, setting up slush funds to influence opponents’ legislatures and governments, and buying controlling shares of stocks to convert an adversary’s major television and newspapers outlets into tools of media warfare. According to the editor’s note, Qiao argued in a subsequent interview that “the first rule of unrestricted warfare is that there are no rules, with nothing forbidden.” That vision clearly transcends any traditional notions of war.

Unrestricted Warfare was an explicit response to the reigning Western military orthodoxy of the time. The preface is dated January 17, 1999, which the authors note was the eighth anniversary of the outbreak of the 1991 Gulf War. In many ways, their argument refuted many of the Western lessons drawn from that conflict: that wars could be short, sharp, and dominated by high-technology weaponry used with stunning precision to shatter an enemy’s armed forces in hours or days. By 1999, U.S. military thinking was dominated by the revolution in military affairs and network centric-warfare, which relied on advanced technologies to give the United States total battlefield dominance.

But Qiao and Wang argued that the battlefield had fundamentally changed. It was no longer a place where militaries met and fought; instead, society itself was now the battlefield. Future wars would inevitably encompass attacks on all elements of society without limits. Military battles resembling those of 1991 might become secondary elements of conflict — if they even occurred at all.

In short, war that by and large does not SEEM to be war due to lack of naked high kinetic weaponry in action. War that is only visible as war once one recognises the involvement of ruthless domination and subjugation by use of force and deception. Force, that is often masked as legitimate actions (often, by turnabout projections of blame . . . maskirovka); force calibrated to seem legitimate to the superficial onlooker.

Force, that needs not involve state actors or states. Which, gives it its 4th generational character.

War waged by vultures in the shadows, not just obvious ones in the sky.

War, that is only over, when the vultures themselves are checkmated and irrecoverably defeated. With history signposted so they cannot regroup to rebrand and come again, as obviously has happened with Marxism’s shiny new brand, critical theories.

U/D6, Jan 19: Ms Clinton and Ms Pelosi, unsubstantiated accusation of treason, screenshot:

Comments
When I wrote to KF, "you don’t want to discuss the question of whether the exercise of right reason, properly applied, will always lead to the one right objectively true viewpoint, or whether it’s possible for people to exercise all those duties and still disagree, do you?", Jerry replied, "Why don’t you take a controversial topic and tells us where you come out on it and why??" Jerry, I think your comment misses the point of what I am trying to say. KS seems to believe that if one uses "right reason" correctly ("truth, right reason, prudence, sound conscience, neighbour; so also, fairness, and justice."), there will necessarily be one right position. I claim that people who totally accept those principles and exercise them well can still reach different positions on an issue. What I would like to see KD do is illustrate with an example how an acceptance of the seven duties of right reason will lead to the one right objective position. As I wrote above, divorce might be a a good issue. To make it clear, I'm not suggesting that deciding whether divorce is or isn't morally right is the issue. I want to talk about the meta-issue of how the principles of right reason can be used to determine an objective position on divorce: one that all people, if they used right reason properly, would agree on. My position on divorce itself is not the issue. KF continually points to the duties to right reason as foundational. If they function as he claims, he ought to be able to outline the position on divorce to which right reason objectively leads. (The reason divorce might be a good topic is that it is not on extreme ends of the spectrum, and it doesn't involve some of the topics that he doesn't want discussed on this thread anymore.)Viola Lee
January 13, 2021
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Dan Bongino
He was told by Cumulus who airs his radio program that he could not discuss the election or else be taken off the air. Rumble is not Cumulus. The intolerance of the left is because they cannot stand up to the truth. It's all about power and those desiring power must suppress the truth. That is why the press is constantly lying.
you don’t want to discuss the question of whether the exercise of right reason, properly applied, will always lead to the one right objectively true viewpoint, or whether it’s possible for people to exercise all those duties and still disagree, do you?
Why don't you take a controversial topic and tells us where you come out on it and why??jerry
January 13, 2021
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Yep, lots of people accept those. Me, for instance. But you don't want to discuss the question of whether the exercise of right reason, properly applied, will always lead to the one right objectively true viewpoint, or whether it's possible for people to exercise all those duties and still disagree, do you?Viola Lee
January 13, 2021
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F/N: Dan Bongino is a former Presidential Security detail Secret Service Officer, is a new media personality and a Parler investor, currently fighting Lymphoma, hence some opening remarks. He rebalances the discussion: https://rumble.com/vcrepj-ep.-1434-the-purge-continues.-the-inside-story-the-dan-bongino-show.html Notice, appeals to the seven key first duties, truth, right reason, prudence, sound conscience, neighbour, fairness and Justice, etc. Rumble, so no embeds. KFkairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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Querius A little satire
No, Truth! A lot of truth in your satire.jerry
January 13, 2021
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William J Murray wrote:
There is no “right” to life, because life is not what most think it is. Life is inextinguishable and eternal. Nobody can stop or interfere in that regardless of what they do. A physical body is not “life.”
Writers of the Declaration of Independence wrote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Does anyone find these statements contradictory? Or do good intentions pave over everything, logic included? -QQuerius
January 13, 2021
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A little satire . . . Kairosfocus wrote:
In my observation, that literally starts with first duties of reason and first principles of reason as topics for first duties. It seems to extend now to rejecting or distorting or evading the means by which first duties and principles should shape our reflection, analysis and policy-making.
Objection:
But what about BABY DUCKS??? Your tirade completely ignores protecting baby ducks!
Kairosfocus summarized:
I'm just trying to get to a system of values based on reason and first principles . . .
Objections summarized:
Yabbut, those are YOUR first principles and self-evident truths to YOU. Other people have different first principles such as baby ducks. You are deliberately ignoring baby ducks and how they're treated. You are censoring our comments about the heinous, fascist nature of anyone who would suppress baby ducks.
Kairosfocus summarized:
No, we're not talking about baby ducks but rather trying to establish a reasonable way to move forward using reason . . .
Objection:
See, there you go again! You just cannot accept anyone who disagrees on your views regarding fairness for baby ducks!
William J Murray wrote:
I thought this thread was about how civilization moves forward. How civilization moves forward is entirely dependent on worldview because it defines the parameters and options going forward.
Comment:
And baby ducks. As long as that worldview includes baby ducks.
This is a hopeless exercise. We are swept along in a massive tide of emotion about baby ducks that will once again end in a horrible disaster of Good Intentions that somehow was complex, wasn't what we expected because of Bad Luck, and wasn't TRUE socialism, which is the only conceivable option to save baby ducks from unfairness. As for me, I will live my remaining years in the peacefulness in my heart in my faith regardless of censorship and persecution by a self-righteous mob in the name of fairness for baby ducks . . . and while their beloved leaders get insanely wealthy and powerful. -QQuerius
January 13, 2021
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I clipped a six page pamphlet that gives crucial advice at this time.
At 300 words for page that is 1800 words.
Those who TL;DR such simply make themselves more vulnerable to the Jacobins. Which, I am afraid, is exactly what they are counting on, winning the war of impressionistic headlines and slogans.
There is a long way between 1700+ words and a slogan and headline. But headlines and slogans that are based on truth will have more of an impact than several paragraphs. For example,
"Who are the 12:40's?"
That is the time the Capitol Police chief asked for help and a half hour before Trump was finished speaking? I am sure it will take more than 1700 words to eventually answer that completely but the answer will be summed up in less than 100. You are constantly posting TLDR comments. Aside: I have no idea what people are debating on this thread. It all sounds like gobbledygook. For example, is anyone actually arguing that mental experiences are not real. You have them, I have them. But there is also a world outside of our minds which by the way includes our bodies and all its machinations as well as other persons and their minds and all of the material world. Is anyone denying this?jerry
January 13, 2021
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JVL:
Based on what exactly?
Based on reality and the unnatural acts.
When was the last time you were in Europe?
What does that matter? I can see the news. Without the USA Europe would be speaking different languages then they do now.ET
January 13, 2021
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WJM, some very excellent postsmike1962
January 13, 2021
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Steve Alten2: and both sides [of the abortion issue] believe that they are using all of Karirosfocus’ fundamentals to draw their conclusions. While I'm not a mind-reader, I would guess that most anti-abortion types - the ones I know at least - start from a revealed-religion angle without going any deeper than that. (I don't. But I'm not strictly anti-abortion.)mike1962
January 13, 2021
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KF said:
PS: I hope we don’y have to revisit what self-evidence is, in detail. In a nutshell, self evident truths are seen as so by one who understands them i/l/o experience and enough intellectual maturity; seen as necessarily so on pain of IMMEDIATE absurdity on rejection. In this case, the objector is reduced to appealing to what he would deny, dismiss, marginalise or evade, just to have any force of persuasion. Such are not proved, they are where proving must begin.
Mental reality is self-evidently true upon pain of absurdity to deny it. The fact that your argument (in fact every argument) depends on it shows how denying it is an absurdity. Since mind is necessarily and self-evidently the home of all experience, it is absurd to deny mental reality. The fact that mental reality can also be supported by evidence, and has in fact been proved time and time again over the past 100 years by scientific evidence, is just more weight that must be denied to cling to the external-physical-reality model. In that respect, you're like a materialist. You are experiencing cognitive dissonance. You cannot escape mind, period, not to gather evidence and certainly not to make arguments about evidence. Your complaint about solipsism/delusion has been fully countered previously. It is not a valid objection. But, either commit to the argument or don't. I'm not going to let your hand-waving dismissals stand on grounds that they take away from the argument here, because "worldview" is absolutely essential to the theme of this post. Your worldview, from which all your reasoning flows, is self-evidently absurd and, unfortunately, ultimately self-defeating. You cannot on the one hand accept mental reality in part where it is convenient, and deny the rest of it because it is inconvenient. If what goes on in mind is not real, reason is irrelevant. If what goes on in mind is real, you don't get to pick and choose based on convenience.William J Murray
January 13, 2021
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I promise that this will be my last post on this thread if you let it stand. Kairosfocus: This thread is about a growing menace to civilisation that requires going back to first duties and principles that seem to have been neglected and undermined. The better to overturn a hated civilisation from within. Sedition is a dangerous game to play. One that can bite you back. As in the French and Russian revolutions. Meanwhile, you fiddle rhetorically as a pivotal state in our civilisation begins to burn up. Asking you questions about moral issues that many, many first world countries have already successfully dealt with is not fiddling rhetorically. It's seeing if you're able to move forward with society. Fire deh ‘pon mus mus tail but ‘im think a cool breeze . . . the Jacobins are here, are running riot literally for half a year (but it’s the others running an insurrection, over there! [perplexed, watch here for a first level]) and are now doing far more than riot and you imagine that your lawfulness undermining obsessions are an advancement of freedom. That tells us all we need to understand. You know, 200 years ago it was common knowledge, self-evident knowledge that black people were incapable of advanced thought. Give them the right to vote? How absurd, they can't even think. They're like animals. Sure, some people objected but generally it was accepted as natural law. Let them own property? Are you kidding? They can barely talk properly. 200 years ago it was very rare for women to own properties or businesses. If they inherited one and then got married their husbands got to take it over. Why? Because most everyone KNEW women were incapable of higher reasoning. Let them make and raise babies, that's where their strengths lie. Few argued about such things because, again, it was self-evidently true. Just look for yourself and see! And so it goes, on and on and on. The last 200 years has seen many self-evident truths and much common knowledge changed because they were built on false premises and false assumptions. One of the most absurd prohibitions was not letting women run in marathons. That was rescinded until the 1970s. Most of us probably remember mixed-race marriages being very, very unusual and sometimes even persecuted. It was in my life time that black men were still being lynched in the southern United State. Do not let your fear govern your thoughts and reactions. As you expect to be treated with dignity and respect and being mostly left alone then extend those courtesies to others; even if you strongly suspect they are going to do something you find distasteful or against your own personal views. First think: are they really harming me or stopping me from doing the things I need to do? I shall refrain from bringing up issues you find toxic or divisive but I trust my inference is clear. Again, if you let this post stand it will be my last one on this thread. I promise.JVL
January 13, 2021
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ET: Any society which enables mental illnesses is doomed. Same-sex marriage and gender reassignment involve mental illnesses. Based on what exactly? Medical opinions? Legal opinions? Theological opinions? Europe? If the USA was like Europe I would want a revolution. When was the last time you were in Europe? It's peaceful, prosperous, dealing with moral questions and opinions that 50 years ago were never mentioned in public. Technically it's doing well. Educationally its doing well. The health care is excellent and free at the point of use. Mostly. Some bits are complicated. The political systems are running pretty well, no one has stormed a legislative building in an attempt to disrupt legal proceedings. Well, it doesn't happen very often at least.JVL
January 13, 2021
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I repeat, this is not a thread on toxic distractors. Please do not force me to act.kairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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JVL, yesterday, I gave three links, 1,2.3. That is all I will give on your obsessive, toxic distractors; for the genuinely perplexed. This thread is about a growing menace to civilisation that requires going back to first duties and principles that seem to have been neglected and undermined. The better to overturn a hated civilisation from within. Meanwhile, you fiddle rhetorically as a pivotal state in our civilisation begins to burn up. Fire deh 'pon mus mus tail but 'im think a cool breeze . . . the Jacobins are here, are running riot literally for half a year (but it's the others running an insurrection, over there! [perplexed, watch here for a first level]) and are now doing far more than riot and you imagine that your lawfulness undermining obsessions are an advancement of freedom. That tells us all we need to understand. KFkairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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JVL knows nothing of the real world. JVL lives in a fantasy, oblivious to reality. Any society which enables mental illnesses is doomed. Same-sex marriage and gender reassignment involve mental illnesses. Europe? If the USA was like Europe I would want a revolution.ET
January 13, 2021
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Jerry, I clipped a six page pamphlet that gives crucial advice at this time. Those who TL;DR such simply make themselves more vulnerable to the Jacobins. Which, I am afraid, is exactly what they are counting on, winning the war of impressionistic headlines and slogans. KFkairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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Bob O'H: ]
We are clearly in an age of reversion to oligarchic domination and lockout of dissent.
Yes, thanks to the democrats and their minions we are on the road to totalitarian rule- or an attempt at it.ET
January 13, 2021
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Kairosfocus: you continue a campaign of toxic tangents and unfounded accusations. That speaks. You DO think same-sex marriage is wrong. Always. You DO think gender-reassignment surgery is wrong. Always. Don't you? That you seem to find it hard to acknowledge the obvious genetically stamped nature of men and women, linked biology of reproduction and import for family, child nurture and sustainable society also speaks Many societies are getting along just fine openly allowing and discussing same-sex marriage and gender-reassignment surgery. Your premise is false. All I will say is that no assertion of rights and freedoms that then tries to impose on others that they deny such basic truths of distinct identity reflecting core characteristics as that men and women are both human and are the two complementary sexes is an attempt to impose deceit and subjugation under falsehood using false colours of rights and law. No one is imposing anything on you personally. You don't own society; lots of people are involved and no one view can ever work for everyone. There's no deceit, there's no falsehood. Just people wanting to do things you don't approve of. And why is it you don't approve of such things? The implications for rise of tyranny are blatant i/l/o the adapted Overton Window model I put up yesterday,in the OP. Specifically, the breakdown of the BATNA that blocks a slippery slope slide into lawless ideological oligarchy . . . lawless oligarchy being the “natural” state of corrupt society, requiring conscious reforms to lift then keep out of such . . . is a menace to civilisation. Do I need to say again that Jacobinism is misanthropic, anticivilisational and ruinous? But that's not actually happening is it? Europe is not on the verge of collapse because men are marrying men or women marrying women. Again, your premise is incorrect. Similarly, poverty at subsistence level with famines and plagues dominated by robber barons or outright brigands is the natural economic state. To create and sustain growing, widely distributed relative prosperity requires considerable effort tied directly to sound, lawful government that guards the civil peace of justice. That is also in the stakes. Likewise, the bad things you warn about are not happening, certainly not everywhere and especially the first world countries whose reforms include staying out of peoples' own personal moral choices. We're not at the end times. They have been predicted many, many times and they never actually arrive. They're not going to arrive. It's a myth. You can try and find indications it is coming as many, many people have done in the past. And they were all wrong, just like you're going to be wrong. Try and live in the real world. It's not so bad. In fact, with the exception of global climate change, it's probably the best time to be alive. We have better medical knowledge, we have most of the world's information at our beck and call, blacks and women have the right to vote, own property, start and run businesses, marry who they want to, get divorced, control the number of children they have. If you just stop fretting and let some people make some of their own moral choices which harm you not at all, you'd be happier and less stressed. Stop worrying about what other consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes. You expect to be treated the same way so extend that courtesy to others.JVL
January 13, 2021
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WJM, BTW, the first, self-evident duties of reason [see OP], are where natural law reasoning and jurisprudence begin from. The natural law framework uses all seven but pivots on justice, prudence, truth informed by sound reasoning on credible facts. KF PS: I hope we don'y have to revisit what self-evidence is, in detail. In a nutshell, self evident truths are seen as so by one who understands them i/l/o experience and enough intellectual maturity; seen as necessarily so on pain of IMMEDIATE absurdity on rejection. In this case, the objector is reduced to appealing to what he would deny, dismiss, marginalise or evade, just to have any force of persuasion. Such are not proved, they are where proving must begin.kairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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And yes, yet another case study also.kairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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But is it also possible that different people can adhere to these duties and come to different conclsions
Is this true? My experience is that people reach different conclusions mainly because 1) over false information or what is true and 2) personal attitudes that must thwart what is true in order for the person to not have cognitive dissonance. In the latter attitudes prevent one from admitting the truth even if all the evidence and logic contradicts them. That is so clear on this web site Aside: Kf, As an example to my observations about not understanding what you write. You just posted an over 1700 word comment. No one will read it. We used to write thousand word essays in college. Going over would deduct from your grade.jerry
January 13, 2021
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F/N: Now that YouTube has joined the pile on, it is time to ponder the SJW attack/ high tech lynch mob tactics and survival. First, scroll up and ponder the U/D's on the slide to tyranny and the action of crooked yardsticks. These of course are subject to correction through the first duties of responsible reason but that is the point, we are precisely dealing with a widespread breakdown of responsibility, backed by ruthless nihilistic will to power. Okay, clip: http://www.milobookclub.com/mart/SJW_Attack_Survival_Guide.pdf >>SJW ATTACK SURVIVAL GUIDE This survival guide is intended for the use of the individual who finds himself under attack by Social Justice Warriors for standing up against them and their ever-mutating Narrative. It may be freely distributed so long as it is correctly credited to SJWs Always Lie: Taking Down the Thought Police by Vox Day. The eight stages of the SJW attack sequence are as follows: 1. Locate or Create a Violation of the Narrative. 2. Point and Shriek. 3. Isolate and Swarm. 4. Reject and Transform. 5. Press for Surrender. 6. Appeal to Amenable Authority. 7. Show Trial. 8. Victory Parade. The rest of this guide consists of the correct way to respond to an SJW attack once it has been identified, ideally at the earliest stage possible. Please note that the eight stages of response do not correspond directly to the eight stages of the SJW attack sequence. 1. Rely on the Three Rs: RECOGNIZE it is happening. REMAIN calm. REALIZE no one cares. The first thing to do when attacked by SJWs is to recognize that you are under SJW attack, remain calm, and realize that no one else cares. You need to understand that the attack is happening, accept that is happening, and refrain from the temptation to try to make it not be happening. Do not panic! Don't go running to others for help or sympathy, don't try to convince everyone around you how outrageous or unfair the accusation is, and don't explain to anyone how little you deserve the way you are being treated. They don't care. They really don't. Think about how little you cared when someone else was previously being attacked by SJWs and how little you did to support them, let alone take action to stop the attack. That's exactly how much your colleagues and acquaintances care about you being attacked, and exactly how much they are going to do to stop it. The truth is that it doesn't matter why SJWs are attacking you. The only thing that matters is understanding that you are under attack right now and no one else is going to do anything about it.>> The name of the game is to slice off the salami bit by bit until the BATNA of lawfulness is too eroded to stop the slide into lawless oligarchy. This is an existential threat to liberty, thus to life, life at holocaust scale in the end. Actually, the worst holocaust in history is already in effect. Just the onward phases may begin to roll in. The assault is existential and already the seven mountain institutions have revealed what aegis they want, the Jacobins. (What sort of historical ignorance and folly could lead educated people to such a choice is a serious question but for another day. We are at Pearl Harbor and immediate easy victory disease aftermath. The grim determination must be taken now, that this is for keeps, we are dealing with misanthropes and enemies of civilisation who will only stop when they are too shattered and defeated to regroup. Midway is coming.) Vox Day and Milo et al suggest further responses, read the pamphlet, but let us clip at least snippets. Notice, the seven first duties of reason correct the evils, but that's the point. We are dealing with the ruthlessly unreasonable, deceitful, manipulative, bullying and unjust -- for details ponder what just happened with an election, how per the McFaul colour revolution recipe and SOCOM insurgency escalator. Yes, the dismissive objectors did not want such attended to. No prizes for guessing why. Let's clip again: >>2. Don't try to reason with them. The second thing is to recognize that there is no way you are going to be able to reason your way out of the situation. Most people who come under SJW attack have the causality backwards. They think the attack is taking place due to whatever it is that they did or said. That's not the case. The attack is taking place because of who you are and what you represent to the SJWs: a threat to their Narrative. In most cases, the SJWs attempting to discredit and disemploy you already wanted you out long ago, and they are simply using the nominal reason given as an excuse to get rid of you . . . . They will also try to isolate you and cut you off from access to any relevant authority, to the media, and to neutral parties, the better to spin the Narrative without your interference. This is why it is vital that you do not agree to any confidentiality agreements or consent to keep your mouth shut while the SJW-driven “investigation” is proceeding . . . . 3. Do not apologize. The third thing to remember when undergoing an SJW-attack is to never apologize for anything you have done. I repeat: do not apologize. Do not say you are sorry if anyone's feelings were hurt, do not express regret, remorse, or contrition, do not say anything that can be taken as an apology in any way. Just in case I am not being sufficiently clear, do not apologize! Normal people seek apologies because they want to know that you feel bad about what you have done and that you will at least attempt to avoid doing it again in the future. When SJWs push you for an apology after pointing-and-shrieking at you, what they are seeking is a confession to bolster their indictment. They are like the police down at the station with a suspect in the interrogation room, badgering him to confess to the crime. [The Red Guards swarm tactic] . . . . 4. Accept your fate. It is psychologically much easier to survive an SJW attack if you accept early on in the process that you are probably going to lose your job or be purged from your church, your social group, or your professional organization. Remember, if the SJWs were not confident they could take you out, they would not have launched the attack in the first place. They prey upon those they believe, rightly or wrongly, to be vulnerable. Even if you survive the attack, it's highly unlikely that your reputation will survive unscathed as there are simply too many people who are inclined to split the difference in any conflict between two parties, no matter how crazy or dishonest they know one of the parties to be. Be prepared to be disappointed by the behavior of some of the people you believe to be your friends . . . . 5. Document their every word and action Most of the time, SJW purges are committed at least partially outside the organization's established rules and forms. You may not be an expert, but some of the people following along will be. Make sure every step in the process, and every piece of communication you receive from them, is documented, critiqued, and publicized. They will pull out all the stops to hide their actions in order to avoid public criticism, and in some of the more egregious cases, ridicule. By forcing them to show their hand in public, you allow others to see and understand what they are really up to. This may not be sufficient to save yourself from the ongoing attack, but it will almost certainly strengthen your negotiating position and will also help prevent the SJWs from blithely repeating the process against you or someone else in the future. Whatever you do, do not agree to any gag orders or sign any confidentiality agreements that will handicap your ability to use the documentation you have acquired to prevent them from spinning a Narrative about what happened . . . . 6. Do not resign! Do not resign! You must always keep in mind that their real goal is not to formally purge you, but to encourage you to quit on your own. That allows them to publicly wash their hands of the affair and claim that your decision to leave was not their fault. They will often enlist more reasonable allies to approach you and tell you that it's not possible for you to continue any more, they will appeal to your desire to avoid conflict as well as to the good of the organization, and they will go on endlessly about the supreme importance of an amicable departure. Don't fall for it. Don't do their dirty work for them. Make them take the full responsibility for throwing you out, thereby ensuring they have to suffer the unpredictable long-term consequences of their actions . . . . 7. Make the rubble bounce. Whether you survive the attempted purge or whether you don't, it's very important to observe who has defined himself as an ally, an enemy, or a neutral party during the process. The choices people make will pleasantly surprise you about as often as they disappoint you. Once everyone's choices have been made clear, your task is simple. Target the enemy at every opportunity. Hit them wherever they show themselves vulnerable [wield the sword of justice in unyielding defence of the civil peace of justice] . . . . 8. Start nothing, finish everything. Even when the initial conflict is over, the SJWs are not going to leave you alone so long as they believe you to be a potentially vulnerable threat to them. This is why you have to be prepared to continue to up the ante until they finally reach the conclusion that they cannot possibly beat you and they are better off keeping their distance . . . >> What we now face at civilisation scale. Resemblance to too tactics of too many trollish objectors here and in the penumbra of attack sites is NOT coincidental. Stand and fight! KFkairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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I thought this thread was about how civilization moves forward. How civilization moves forward is entirely dependent on worldview because it defines the parameters and options going forward. You want to start in the middle without having to defend your premise. I mean, it's your thread. You get to make the decisions here, but let's not fool ourselves. You're assuming your worldview is the best one to move forward under. In fact, you're assuming it's the only one we can move forward under. IMO, your worldview is inherently self-defeating. All you're going to do even if you succeed is start the cyclic pattern over. Which isn't a problem for me; that's probably the design of this "world." I just refuse to participate in an endless cycle of right vs wrong and good vs evil. I have other options that are far less limiting and far more enjoyable. But I admit, watching others play out the roles of heroes and villains is pretty darn entertaining while I'm here. This is a fantastic storyline, one I'm very glad I'm still here to enjoy.William J Murray
January 13, 2021
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which I am here just outlining for those who may be puzzled.
Kf As I said above, I am sure I agree with most of what you are saying. Given that, your ways of expression are confusing. You use code and cryptic expressions that I and I assume others have difficulty understanding. As an example you quote Thomas Sowell who I consider one of the best writers if not the best writer/thinker of our times. When you comment on his comments it is less clear what you mean but crystal clear what he is saying. Keep up the good fight against relativism that we have here and most definitely in our society. But a lot of the problems here flow from just how you are saying something.jerry
January 13, 2021
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Well, my attempt to gain some clarity, as nicely summarized by Bob at 186, just got drowned out both by KF being unable to accurately focus on an issue and WJM wanting to bring his reality theory into the discussion. This appears to be hopeless. I'll try to find other things to do with my spare internet time today.Viola Lee
January 13, 2021
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WJM, you can see what has been going on across those months. Right now, a coup is in progress as we speak, cheered on by the establishment. A Jacobin coup, they don't realise who first get themselves that 4 am visit and trip to Kangaroo court then gulag. The matters you raise are on worldview alternatives with need to go to comparative difficulties, that, again, I must defer. And I repeat, there is reason to see that we do not live in a Plato's Cave world, which I am here just outlining for those who may be puzzled. KF PS: Life does not reduce to biochemistry and embodiment, as independence and freedom required to be rational point to. However, the same evidence strongly points to embodiment also.kairosfocus
January 13, 2021
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The "right to life" is based on the idea that "life" is a physical body participating in an external, physical world. This is an erroneous perspective.William J Murray
January 13, 2021
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KF said:
lWJM, you just denied it. Life as first, gateway right is mirror image of the premise, that we must not shed innocent blood, one of the gravest of crimes. KF
As I said, until you address the foundation, nothing you say matters. You're just extending from an unsupported foundation.William J Murray
January 13, 2021
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