Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

The “ID is Creationism in a cheap tuxedo” smear championed by Eugenie Scott et al of NCSE is now Law School Textbook orthodoxy . . .

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From ENV  — even as Dr Eugenie Scott of NCSE retires (having championed the ID is Creationism in a cheap tuxedo smear for years and years in the teeth of all correction . . . ) — we see a development, courtesy a whistle-blowing Law School student:

The latest attempt to insert creationism into the classroom is what is known as the Theory of Intelligent Design. The theory is that all of the complex natural phenomena could not have happened randomly; there had to be a design and a designer. Since the concept of the designer does not require a biblical interpretation, its advocates believe that it could possibly pass constitutional muster. Some states have proposed that science standards be rewritten to include requiring teachers to compare and contrast the design hypothesis with evidence that supports evolution . . . .

The efforts of Christian Fundamentalists to insert the biblical Book of Genesis’ explanation into the teaching of science in the public school classroom evolved in stages from direct state prohibitions to teaching Darwinian evolution, to teaching creation as a science, to balanced treatment of both creationism and evolution, and finally to the latest intelligent design movement (IDM) . . . .

Evidence in the [Dover, it seems] case indicated how the progenitors of intelligent design had adapted their wording and tactics immediately after the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Edwards v. Aguillard. Edwards had struck down a legislative attempt to give “balanced-treatment” to “creation science” along with evolution in public school science classes. The federal court in Pennsylvania said that: “The weight of the evidence clearly demonstrates . . . that the systemic change from ‘creation’ to ‘intelligent design’ occurred sometime in 1987, after the Supreme Court’s important Edwards decision. This compelling evidence strongly supports plaintiff’s assertion that ID is creationism relabeled.” [Apparently: Kern Alexander and M. David Alexander,  American Public School Law (Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, 8th Edn) p. 381.]

This is a blatantly slanderous strawman distortion in defiance of duties of care to truth, accuracy and fairness, and presents in misleading justification a false history of the origin of and motivation for design theory.

ENV’s Casey Luskin, quite properly, replies:

[F]irst off we see the equation of intelligent design (ID) with creationism. Is ID a form of “creationism”? For the purpose of a legal textbook, surely it’s important to see how courts have defined creationism. When the U.S. Supreme Court defined creationism, they found that it “embodies the religious belief that a supernatural creator was responsible for the creation of humankind.” Leading scholars on both sides of this debate agree that creationism generally holds that “supernatural” powers created life. Even under this broad definition of creationism, ID is not creationism. This is because ID does not try to address questions about whether the designer acting in biological nature is natural or supernatural, and in fact explicitly allows that the designer could have been natural. (We’ve discussed this before in detail; see “ID Does Not Address Religious Claims About the Supernatural.”) As should be clear, then, intelligent design lacks the key defining characteristic that makes creationism both unscientific and unconstitutional.

American Public School Law goes on to cite the Kitzmiller v. Dover ruling as having demonstrated that intelligent design is creationism. Does the evidence from that case in fact show that intelligent design fits the U.S. Supreme Court’s definition of creationism? Here’s how biologist Scott Minnich testified in explaining intelligent design to the court:

Q. Do you have an opinion as to whether intelligent design requires the action of a supernatural creator?
A. I do.
Q. What is that opinion?
A. It does not.

(Scott Minnich testimony, November 3, 2005.)

Or as Michael Behe testified:

Q. So is it accurate for people to claim or to represent that intelligent design holds that the designer was God?
Behe: No, that is completely inaccurate.
Q. Well, people have asked you your opinion as to who you believe the designer is, is that correct?
Behe: That is right.
Q. Has science answered that question?
Behe: No, science has not done so.
Q. And I believe you have answered on occasion that you believe the designer is God, is that correct?
Behe: Yes, that’s correct.
Q. Are you making a scientific claim with that answer?
Behe: No, I conclude that based on theological and philosophical and historical factors.

(Michael Behe testimony, October 17, 2005.)

The judge in the case, John E. Jones, refused to allow ID proponents to define their own theory and ignored this testimony in his ruling. But far from being a mere exercise in rhetoric, Behe’s argument is principled, based on a commitment to respect the limits of science. His belief in God is not a hard-and fast conclusion of intelligent design, but something he concludes for different reasons, “based on theological and philosophical and historical factors.” He makes clear that ID doesn’t identify the designer.

For example, let’s say (for the sake of argument) that the DNA encoding the bacterial flagellum gives evidence that it did not arise by a random and unguided process like Darwinian evolution, but instead arose by a non-random and intelligently directed process. The raw data here is a highly complex molecular machine encoded by information in DNA. But that genetic information, and that machine has no way of directly telling us whether the designer is Yahweh, Buddha, Yoda, or some other source of intelligent agency. Based on our present knowledge, identifying the designer lies beyond the competence of science. It is strictly a philosophical or theological matter and, for the scientific theory of ID, it is beyond its scope. Since ID is based solely upon empirical data, the theory must remain silent on such questions.

Going on further, a better informed, more accurate  summary of the history of the roots of design theory would be:

In more recent decades, the resurgence of ID in science and philosophy arose from the confluence of information theory with the discoveries of the astonishingly complex and digital nature of DNA and cell engineering. It was not a response to the legal flaws associated with Biblical creationism, but a recognition that the mechanisms proposed by neo-Darwinism could not adequately explain the informational and irreducible properties of living systems that were increasingly being identified in biological literature as identical to features common in language and engineered machines. The term “intelligent design” appears to have been coined in its contemporary usage by cosmologist Dr. Fred Hoyle and soon thereafter Dr. Charles Thaxton, a chemist and academic editor for the Pandas textbook, adopted the term after hearing it mentioned by a NASA engineer. Thaxton’s adoption of the term was not an attempt to evade a court decision, but rather to distinguish ID from creationism, because, in contrast to creationism, ID sought to stay solely within the empirical domain:

I wasn’t comfortable with the typical vocabulary that for the most part creationists were using because it didn’t express what I was trying to do. They were wanting to bring God into the discussion, and I was wanting to stay within the empirical domain and do what you can do legitimately there.

In their effort to tie ID to creationism, the plaintiffs introduced as their “smoking gun” a comparison of the language in early pre-publication drafts of Pandas that used the term “creation” and later pre-publication drafts as well as published editions that used the term “intelligent design.” They alleged the terminology was switched merely in an effort to evade the Edwards v. Aguillard ruling, which found “creation science” unconstitutional. But the plaintiffs (and Judge Jones, who relied on them) were wrong both historically and conceptually.

Historically, it is clear (as just pointed out) that the research that generated the Pandas textbook came years before any of the litigation over “creation science.” Conceptually, early drafts of Pandas, although they used the word “creation,” did not advocate “creationism” as that term was defined by the Supreme Court.

In Edwards v. Aguillard, the Supreme Court found that creationism was religion because it referred to a “supernatural creator.” Yet long before Edwards, pre-publication drafts of Pandas specifically rejected the view that science could determine whether an intelligent cause identified through the scientific method was supernatural. A pre-Edwards draft argued that “observable instances of information cannot tell us if the intellect behind them is natural or supernatural. This is not a question that science can answer.” The same draft explicitly rejected William Paley’s eighteenth century design arguments because they unscientifically “extrapolate to the supernatural” from the empirical data.

The draft stated that Paley was wrong because “there was no basis in uniform experience for going from nature to the supernatural, for inferring an unobserved supernatural cause from an observed effect.” Another pre-publication draft made similar arguments: “[W]e cannot learn [about the supernatural] through uniform sensory experience . . . and so to teach it in science classes would be out of place . . . [S]cience can identify an intellect, but is powerless to tell us if that intellect is within the universe or beyond it.”

By unequivocally affirming that the empirical evidence of science “cannot tell us if the intellect behind [the information in life] is natural or supernatural” it is evident that these pre-publication drafts of Pandas meant something very different by “creation” than did the Supreme Court in Edwards v. Aguillard, in which the Court defined creationism as religion because it postulated a “supernatural creator.”

(David DeWolf, John West, and Casey Luskin, “Intelligent Design Will Survive Kitzmiller v. Dover,” Montana Law Review, Vol. 68:7 (Winter, 2007) (internal citations omitted).)

So, as we approach the retirement of Ms Scott of NCSE, where are we?

Right where Lewontin said in his infamous 1997 NYRB article, Billions and Billions of Demons:

It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [[–> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [[–> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. [If you think this is quote-mined, in accord with a typical counter talking point, kindly cf the larger excerpt with annotations here on.]

Philip Johnson’s reply in November that same year is well deserved:

For scientific materialists the materialism comes first; the science comes thereafter. [[Emphasis original] We might more accurately term them “materialists employing science.” And if materialism is true, then some materialistic theory of evolution has to be true simply as a matter of logical deduction, regardless of the evidence. That theory will necessarily be at least roughly like neo-Darwinism, in that it will have to involve some combination of random changes and law-like processes capable of producing complicated organisms that (in Dawkins’ words) “give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.”
. . . .   The debate about creation and evolution is not deadlocked . . . Biblical literalism is not the issue. The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing. Darwinism is based on an a priori commitment to materialism, not on a philosophically neutral assessment of the evidence. Separate the philosophy from the science, and the proud tower collapses. [[Emphasis added.] [[The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism, First Things, 77 (Nov. 1997), pp. 22 – 25.]

No wonder, Luskin summarises where we have come since the 1920’s  thusly:

The efforts of Darwinian Fundamentalists to insert materialist explanations into the teaching of science in the public school classroom evolved in stages from opposing direct state prohibitions to teaching Darwinian evolution, to opposing balanced treatment of both creationism and evolution, to opposing any mention of scientific alternatives like intelligent design, to refusing to allow even mainstream scientific critiques of their viewpoint to be taught. Thus, while Evolution activists might have had the moral high ground in 1925 during the Scopes trial, Justice Scalia notes that today we have “Scopes in Reverse,” where they try to censor critics by creating a climate of fear and intimidation.

Do you see why I keep on pointing out the warning made by Plato, 2350 years ago now? Namely, this from The Laws, Bk X:

Ath. . . . [[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [[i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art, and that as to the bodies which come next in order-earth, and sun, and moon, and stars-they have been created by means of these absolutely inanimate existences. The elements are severally moved by chance and some inherent force according to certain affinities among them-of hot with cold, or of dry with moist, or of soft with hard, and according to all the other accidental admixtures of opposites which have been formed by necessity. After this fashion and in this manner the whole heaven has been created, and all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only. [[In short, evolutionary materialism premised on chance plus necessity acting without intelligent guidance on primordial matter is hardly a new or a primarily “scientific” view! Notice also, the trichotomy of causal factors:  (a) chance/accident, (b) mechanical necessity of nature, (c) art or intelligent design and direction.] . . . .

[[Thus, they hold that t]he Gods exist not by nature, but by art, and by the laws of states, which are different in different places, according to the agreement of those who make them; and that the honourable is one thing by nature and another thing by law, and that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.– [[Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT. (Cf. here for Locke’s views and sources on a very different base for grounding liberty as opposed to license and resulting anarchistic “every man does what is right in his own eyes” chaos leading to tyranny. )] These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might [[ Evolutionary materialism leads to the promotion of amorality], and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [[Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles; cf. dramatisation here],  these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is, to live in real dominion over others [[such amoral factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless tyranny], and not in legal subjection to them.

Will it take the infamous 4:00 am knock on the doors by Jack-booted thugs (while the neighbours cower, shivering, behind their doors . . . ), to wake us up?

The authors of a text book that acts like this, should be publicly named and shamed, and the publishers should be exposed as failing in basic duties of care.

On right of fair, credibly informed comment and in light of duties of care for education:

Kern Alexander and M. David Alexander, SHAME ON YOU!

Wadsworth of Belmont, CA: SHAME ON YOU!

And, that this propagation of evident deception under false name of knowledge and education, is in the direct context of shaping the next generation of lawyers, FBI agents, Judges and Legislators, etc, is chilling beyond words.

It is time to wake up now, before it is too late. END

Comments
G2: Kindly, stop playing the ID is creationism in a cheap tuxedo game. What I believe in the end about how life was formed is irrelevant. As far as I am concerned, design is inferred on reliable signs as tested, who the designers are or could be is a second order question. As I have pointed out, echoing those who pioneered design theory from Thaxton et al on, evidence of design of life does not in itself imply that the relevant designers are within or beyond the cosmos. The issue is simple: is there evidence that -- per a wide base of empirical tests -- reliably points to design as a credible causal explanation of a given entity or object? ANS: Yes, signs such as FSCO/I. Is such evidence to be found in the living cell? ANS: Yes. Inductive Conclusion: the cell is in material part formed by design, per inference to best current explanation. To break that inductive inference is quite simple: show that FSCO/I or the like is not a reliable sign of design as cause. Tried -- for years, but not delivered on; hence, the distraction and subject switching games such as is involved in the false accusation in the textbook at the heart of the OP, and which you are here echoing. And, it is now coming on eight months in which you and any number of others have had a free kick at goal to show here at UD through a hosted feature article length essay, that on observational evidence, the evolutionary materialist school of thought has adequately accounted for OOL and OO body plans. That there are no serious takers to date (especially on OOL) is utterly telling. Now, FYI, on grounds separate from design theory -- in a major facet having to do with a miracle of guidance in answer to my Mom's prayer of surrender -- happy mom's day, mom! -- that saved my life, I am a Christian. Which is why I am a walking miracle. I also have good historical warrant behind specifically Christian convictions. Which is backed up by broader worldviews level warrant to accept that God -- not the oh ever so revealing denigratory common-g you resorted to -- is the foundation of all reality. That faith (= confident trust in the cumulative force of evidence and experience leading to willingness to act on that trust . . . here amounting to moral certainty: evidence warranting a conclusion to a degree that is not equivalent to demonstrative deductive proof on axioms acceptable to all but which is sufficiently compelling on cumulative impact that one would be irresponsible to dismiss or ignore it when making decisions of great moment . . . ) would be compatible with: direct creation of the cosmos and world of life in either a young or an old creation frame. With, also, a broadly theistic evolutionary view, up to and including universal common descent similar to Behe's view. With also, a view that God simply picked the cosmic simulation run or equivalent, that ends up with us. Or, whatever. Such a frame is empirically testable, as it would be INCONSISTENT with/severely undermined by a world in which on solid, systematic evidence there is no reason to infer to design as a key feature of the cause of the observed cosmos or of the world of life. It so happens, however, that the cosmological evidence -- independent of that in the world of life -- strongly points to fine tuning of the observed cosmos for life, and that the world of life -- per FSCO/I etc -- shows strong signs of design. That is, we have scientific evidence providing support, not undermining. And,frankly, that support seems to be your real problem. The evidence is not pointing where you want to go, so (on evidence and in context) you are rhetorically pounding on the table and trying to distract attention from it. Onlookers, notice, who is pointing confidently to evidence, and who is playing at atmosphere poisoning motive mongering. Game over, and the game of manipulating textbooks -- including of all dangerous things Law School textbooks -- to create a false and smearing impression in support to a priori materialism imposed on science, education, institutions, law and culture, is over, too. So, please stop the enabling behaviour. KFkairosfocus
May 12, 2013
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KF: Do you believe all life on earth was created by god ?Graham2
May 12, 2013
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Dr F: We have a chance, but because we are ever so prone to denial of unpleasant reality [hence, to delay taking corrective action . . . ], it is likely to be a near-run thing. KFkairosfocus
May 11, 2013
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Kairosfocus, Thank you sir for answering my question and giving me more to think about. It's good to know that there is at least a route out of the darkness. I will continue reading here with a bit more optimism.Dr.Ford
May 11, 2013
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F/N: Dr F you may find this, on worldview foundations and coherence helpful: ____________ >> My focal issue is finitude of worldviews AND of warrant that has to meet logical, explanatory and truth tests. Warrant has to terminate finitely (just like an algorithm . . . [--> a step-by-step problem solving procedure like Long Division]), and our mental models of the world have to be finite, and are inevitably grounded. How well, is another story. We may happily play around on the raft, remodelling as we drift — so long as we avoid making it fall apart into incoherence, given the lurking sharks [and that hints at where I will go in a moment] — but all of this socio-techno- physical activity and associated bounded rationality models have to rest on the supporting ocean. Ground level reality. Or else, the sharks have lunch. That is, once we realise things can REALLY fall apart, we will be a lot less prone to get into glorified groupthink games. Justification is social but not just social. The raft can really fall apart, to the joy of the sharks. So, pardon a very old fashioned notion. As long as there is a difference between an intact raft (never mind repairs and debates over remodelling) and one that has fallen apart, we have two distinct alternative states that cannot both be true in the same sense and time and stable identity of state — which can all be expressed in more or less accurate words but all of it is a matter of reality first and foremost. That is, I here point to the first principles of right reason as self evident foundational truths that have a reality that transcends debate talking points or social conventions on who has “won” a debate or power contest. The sharks care a lot about the difference. Those first principles of right reason are genuinely foundational and finitely remote. We ignore or subvert them at our peril. Just ask the sharks. Next, we can take up something like Royce’s error exists. This is a statement in a language and inescapably has social aspects, but it also has objective, accurate and undeniable reference to the real world. It is not just a game called justification that we can make up rules for as we please. Yes, cause-effect is distinct from ground-consequent (no-one here doubted that . . . it is key to some problems of evolutionary materialism . . . ), but the issue of truth is the bridge between them. Hence, the classic differentiation between valid and sound reasoning. Coming back, the point I have been underscoring is that worldviews and their claims are subject to the challenge of warrant. Why accept A? B. Why B? C. So, we face infinite regress, circularity or a finitely remote cluster of first plausibles. Some of these may be self evident [and I think there is a little matter of little errors in the beginning on this hence my focus on error exists as case no 1 of this . . . ], but others will have to be taken as plausible, without further warrant. Other than fitting into the system and providing adequate grounds. The ocean is real and provides floatation. It also has the hopeful sharks. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to make and sail a viable raft to safe harbour. That involves factual adequacy [it stands on the ocean and must be safe], coherence [it does not fall apart], and explanatory adequacy with elegant simplicity [neither an ad hoc patchwork that must fall apart sooner or later nor a simplistic and inadequate structure]. The sharks are waiting. >> ___________ In short, I think people will have to see a raft begin to fall apart, and sharks swirling, before they will realise things HAVE to change. Pity, but so stubborn or distracted or spaced out are we. KFkairosfocus
May 11, 2013
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Dr Ford: Yes. The issue is going to have to be foundational and existential, triggering an existential crisis. Probably, something to do with fundamental rights. For instance, what happens when large numbers of people understand that -- being without a basis for OUGHT, a worldview such as evolutionary materialism is highly vulnerable to nihilistic manipulation by agenda groups? When, numbers realise that, contrary to the mind-bending Orwellian 1984 games that have been played with "faith" (i.e. to equate it to emotionally rooted blindness and irrational leaps -- as opposed to "science," dependent on imaginary crutches), all worldviews are rooted in faith-points? That, evolutionary materialism is in fact a very old worldview with a long and sobering track record, and that its faith-point undermines reason and responsibility, opening the door to ruthless, nihilistic manipulators? That it is actually irretrievably self-refuting? That, it reduces rights, to "might and manipulation make 'right' . . . " -- including the most precious rights? That, such leads to cynically manipulative ruthless, Alinskyite dark triad -- Machiavellianism + narcissism + sociopathy -- factions that tend to cynically manipulate political, policy, education and media systems, undermining their integrity and credibility? That, such has been on record for 2350 years, coming from leading, foundational thinkers for our civilisation? That, contrary to the announcements, such has seriously questionable scientific roots? That, the very definition of science is being question- beggingly, ideologically manipulated through dressing up evo mat in a lab coat? That this leads to a situation where macroevo is held almost self-evidently true due to circularity of argument? And, that this ideologisation of science compromises the ability of science to objectively seek the actual truth about the origins of life and its major varieties? That, the root of the resulting darwinist tree of life is simply missing, and the speculative models cannot credibly account for the digital info systems in the heart of the cell? [Cf. current UD post here.] That the main branches -- ever since Darwin and in defiance of his hope that they would be found as fossil beds were explored -- are also evidently permanently missing? After 150 years of trying, 1/4+ million fossil species, millions in museums and billions in known beds all over the world? That, the only known and analytically, empirically credible source of FSCO/I is design? That this means that FSCO/I is a reliable signature/sign of design as cause? That -- per needle in the haystack or millions of monkeys at keyboards -- the much touted timelines have nothing to do with the problem? That, with the origins of the cosmos, in light of fine tuning, the matter is even more blatant? That, as a consequence of ideological takeover of key institutions, we've been systematically led to positions that open up our civilisation to the most destructive trends? Which, are now baying at the doors, having been let into the cities? That is how fundamentally brittle the situation is. It would have been much better if there had been a gracious yielding to the evidence as it has come out since 1953, instead of a further hardening and ideologisation. But hard, brittle systems are inherently vulnerable to crack starting and crack propagation. In short, the very militancy that we are seeing is a sign of just how brittle things are. Cracks are starting to show, and sooner rather than later, one or more are going to reach critical length and then will proceed with ripping explosive speed across our civilisation. We can only hope, pray and prepare to try to save what can be saved when that happens. Especially with the other radical agenda we have baying outside the gates; for the third major time in 1400 years. And no, I don't think those who are living in Plato's cave and find its manipulative shadow-shows congenial to their tastes and agendas, are really willing to entertain the concern that things are that dangerous. In their minds, the real danger is those fanatical, ignoramus fringe fundies who want to bring us back to the middle ages with inquisitions, racks and witch hunts. (Don't they even spot how they are playing blatantly prejudice-driven stereotyping, scapegoating games? You must be "ignorant, stupid insane . . . or wicked" should give a clue or two!) Ever notice, how there is a persistent refusal to face the much closer cases of abusive power in the hands of unaccountable radical secularist and/or neopagan power elites? Things like eugenics, scientific racism, social darwinism and totalitarian or wider politically messianistic ideologies? (Which were all dominant among elites of their day and were promoted by ever so many of the educated as the thinking man's view . . . ) Have you ever seen a serious, sober, truthful and responsible response to the logo for the 2nd international Eugenics Conference in light of the relevant history and onward course of events? And more? KF PS: Mr Byers, please, think again.kairosfocus
May 11, 2013
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kairosfocus Regarding creationism and censorship I don't see , AT ALL, any problem with my phrasing, tone, or substance. Whats wrong? Its about accuracy and inaccuracy or as one sees it. I didn't dismiss anyone in science merit. Only I scored it pound for pound. I didn't say zero I said a very very poor second. Like in a basketball game. 86-2 tells a tale but their was a 2. Anyways as in origin subjects its about facts and then interpretation. No one has shown me ever in censorship issues why I am wrong and I've brought it up for years. Likewise the issue identity achievement in science. In either case if I'm wrong then what is the right answer.Robert Byers
May 11, 2013
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It will be a rather big crack and roar since not only the science establishment but the entire edifice of the modern world, academia and all the products of academia rest upon materialism and it's central pillar, Darwinism. I don't know if this old world could take it.Dr.Ford
May 10, 2013
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Dr Ford: I doubt that even such would work. Remember, sailing upwind against the media and other centres under thralldom. First, while the science case needs to be made as it is foundational, the tipping point is not coming on that side. The technical economics had been clear for a long time. Von Mises' findings on the problem of proper valuation dated to the 1920s. In our case, it is going to soak in that cell based life uses code based algorithmic, digital info systems. The common sense question is going to bite: what, from observation does that? What, simply does not? H'mmmmm . . . A light bulb will go off in more and more heads. The tipping point, however, will likely come in science and society. Gradually pressure will build up on the evo mat worldview and its championing institutions as an old guard dies off and as the shrill fever swamp attitudes of too many begin to be clear. Imperceptible, until the dam creaks, cracks and lets go with a roar too loud, too dangerous, too obvious to be spun or distracted from or superficially covered and buried. Precisely what will crack, where and when will be hard to spot, but a clear sign will be confident alternative leadership that is sharp on the points of science etc and shows the ideological imposition, the question begging and the amorality, then in case after case connects this to pivotal issues and cases. For instance the implication that we have no wills able to make rational, moral choices, is a major vulnerability. Implications of the absurdity and opening the door to cynical nihilistic manipulation already point. As a critical mass responds to leadership, token compromise offers will be made. They should be refused: we sit at the table as of right, not sufferance. Then, unpredictably, CRAAAAACK! ROAR . . . Suddenly, momentum will shift decisively and all the old surefire tricks will blow up. Probably, some over-reach will blow up. When that happens, there will be a flood of demands to set junk science straight, and to correct absurdities. That has already happened with Marxism, and with Freudianism. I figure, about a decade. We are about 1978/9, with TIRED old guard leadership, and new leadership coming up, in science and society. A vicious rearguard for a decade then collapse and a lot of clever cats trying to land on their feet. Defeat is always an orphan. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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What sort of occurrence would you envision that could cause things to so fall apart? Finding a literal signature in a cell or having the stars move from their positions to form the tetragrammaton?Dr.Ford
May 10, 2013
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Dr F: Been there before, with the Marxists. (Went to a Marxism dominated school, in a day when they thought the future belonged to them -- they were just as deaf to reason, but on the whole a little better mannered . . . ) It is important to make the logical case, and to expose the hollow inductive logic and triumphalism, but we also know that the real endgame comes when things fall apart as an absurd -- and I here mean demonstrably self referentially incoherent and amoral -- view clashes with reality and shows the "and Society" implications. The reason why the materialists go ballistic when the self-referential incoherence of the view and its inherent amorality are exposed, is that this is what lays out the real danger to society that is oh so conveniently hidden in the lab coats. Notice how they tiptoe around the 2,350 year old expose in Plato's The Laws, Bk X. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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On the other hand there’s the positive side to being a materialist. One can feel comforted that everything is eventually knowable. Man is the top being. No need to worry about being judged. Morality is infinitely flexible. You're smarter than anyone who disagrees with you. It’s a godlike position. I don’t think you’re going to succeed in arguing someone down from those deluded heights no matter how good your argument is.Dr.Ford
May 10, 2013
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They're certainly using science as an evangelistic tool. In their minds they have already determined that humans came about through unguided natural forces so whatever designing those pesky humans have gotten up to is still ultimately caused by those unguided forces thus ruling out design as a cause. They see your premise as flawed, probabilistic resources notwithstanding. Your logic is wonderful to behold and I've enjoyed reading UD for years to watch the fireworks but it often seems that you're spinning your wheels. The battlefield is not logic or science, as you say, but ideology. The problem is that materialists didn't arrive at their worldview from logical deduction. The solution must take into account why someone chooses materialism as their worldview. To a materialist the idea of a designer is too horrible to contemplate and unacceptable no matter the logic. They argue as though no ground can be conceded. They must imagine that the designer would be a vengeful God who will judge them and hold them accountable for their sins. Their world must not contain such a monster. Even if you don't identify the designer as God they can't allow even the possibility. The divine foot in the door is too scary.Dr.Ford
May 10, 2013
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Dr F: You have a point. Howev er, it is also the case that, whatever their nature and whatever its roots, designers and their works are empirical realities. If something is empirical, observable, then it can be studied scientifically, even if we do not have a basis to explain all that we would like to know about it. For instance, I doubt that anyone would be prepared to dispute the scientific nature of Newton's inferred law of gravitation because he did not know its deep roots. However, ID is not so much about designers as about designs, and designs indicated by characteristic signs in a context where this allows us to credibly account for certain phenomena that are not reasonably accounted for on blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. The label "science" is not the pivotal issue, the key issue is instead inductive logic. If on observed cases we can see a reliable pattern that FSCO/I is a product of design, and that chance and/or necessity absent design is not an observable source thereof, when we see FSCO/I we have a right to infer the best explanation to be design. The reason this is controversial is plainly not the logic but the challenge this implies for ideologically dominant materialist schools of thought. We have some news: science is not the evangelistic tool of materialist ideology. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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billmaz: "If the word designer is used in a scientific hypothesis (ID) then it has to be used in a scientific way, it is a scientific term or concept, by definition. Otherwise it doesn’t belong in a scientific hypothesis. This is important, because one can’t have it both ways. One can’t say that ID is a scientific hypothesis and have at its core of explaining evolution the scientific concept of a designer and then turn around and say that the concept of a designer is a philosophical one, never meant to be looked at scientifically. Do you see the contradiction?" Billmaz appears to be evaluating the ID argument from the perspective of materialism and doesn’t realize that for a materialist to accept ID a worldview change is required. Let me explain. The materialist says that since we have eliminated God, spiritualism, metaphysics etc. from reality, whatever is left is knowable. If there are things we don’t know now, then it’s only a matter of time before we do. At least, we know that whatever mysteries remain, the answer is not God. So from that point of view, if ID wants to be Science, then the designer must be known and there can be nothing about the designer that is, in theory, unknowable. If ID can’t do that then it’s not Science. A worldview that allows for ID, on the other hand, accepts that there can be things that are unknowable. We go wherever the evidence leads and if we have to stop before we know everything because there is not enough evidence, then so be it. If we want to go further then we’ll have to use the tools of philosophy or theology. Perhaps Billmaz has internalized materialism’s definition of science to the point that he doesn’t realize it’s just the worldview talking. Maybe he wants ID to be considered science under materialist conditions but it can never be.Dr.Ford
May 10, 2013
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kairosfocus, My only point with 29 is that evolutionism should be subject to the same law pertaining to the separation of Church and State that "they" hold ID and Creation to. As for their claims, well according to Christopher Hitchens we can ignore them as they do not have any evidentiary support- "That which can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"Joe
May 10, 2013
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Joe @ 29: Too often true, but that does not mean that we can ignore the actual scientific claims or evidence put forward. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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Mr Byers, with due respect, I am not happy with phrasing, tone and substance in many of the things you have had to say. Your recent dismissiveness on women in science (which I answered by pointing to Marie Curie) is a capital example of what UB and I are highlighting as needing correction. Please. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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G2: Even on policy matters, cf the assertion made by DS at 22 above, with my rebuttal by actually citing the bill in toto in 26 above. Do you see who is trying to poison the atmosphere and erect strawman caricatures, and who is addressing merits? KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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G2: What one thinks as a matter of science and its logic is distinct from what one may think as a matter of worldviews, where much wider issues are in play, e.g. the fact that apart from a miracle of guidance in answer to my mom's prayer of surrender, I would be dead 40 years now. That's not a matter of scientific logic but you had better believe it plays a part in my overall worldview. How would you like it if I were to up front the issues and historical and living memory crimes of atheism and atheists and use that "in society" issue as if it were a rebuttal on the merits to every scientific claim made by atheists at every possible opportunity where I could squeeze it in -- consistently substituting that (and making up namecalling phrases . . . ) for actually addressing issues of inductive logic on origins, cf e.g. here or the always linked through my handle? KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2013
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kariosfocus My thinking is fine but correct where I'm wrong. Its a simple equation that need only be punched home. If the objective is to teach trhe TRUTH in classes dealing with origins then censorship there means either what is censored is officially NOT true or if a option for truth its still to be censored and SO truth is NOT the objective. The state therefore is not teaching kids the truth on origins which is a absurdity for educational claims. By the way if the state insists its teaching the truth and censors one option, by claiming its a religious idea, then the state is officially saying the religious idea is NOT true. So breaking the very law it invokes for the original censorship. Why am i wrong in my analysis??Robert Byers
May 9, 2013
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I wonder how many people here believe the designer = god ?Graham2
May 9, 2013
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@your #29, Joe. That is so true, Joe, that it ought to be a very hackneyed platitude. But that's what made it hilariously funny for me to read. I mean, it made me burst out laughing. 'disguised' like a pantomime horse. I suppose it had a bit of a kind of 'Zen Buddhist satori' effect on me.Axel
May 9, 2013
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Sleep, thaz a luxury mon. KFkairosfocus
May 9, 2013
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kf @26: Well stated. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis of the relevant bill. Funny how the opposition generally carefully avoid quoting the thing . . . (Where do you find time to put together such detailed posts?)Eric Anderson
May 9, 2013
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Evolutionism is just atheism disguised as science.Joe
May 9, 2013
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Mr Byers: I think you would do well to heed UB's counsel. KFkairosfocus
May 9, 2013
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EA: Spot on, cf just above. KFkairosfocus
May 9, 2013
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DS: Let me pause and say, first, that -- noting that you seem to be a new commenter here at UD -- I thank you for sharing your opinions, for it is important to promote discussion and exchange of ideas. However, I must also raise some questions about the particular ideas you have raised, and the manner in which you have raised them, in light of the link back to your own blog. I note, to begin, that the recent Tennessee academic freedom bill -- I guess, now, Law -- has come up for mention here at UD some time back. (Cf. here (NB: follow-up here), here and here.) It is quite plain that as usual it has been misleadingly portrayed in the press and by those with a vested interest as an attempt to smuggle "Creationism" in by the back door. However, this is actually demonstrably false and further reflects the exact smear and materialist ideological agenda the original post above is addressing. The best answer to such is to actually cite the bill, which happens to be fairly short. The actual Bill is here, in toto: ______________ >> AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 49, Chapter 6, Part 10, relative to teaching scientific subjects in elementary schools. BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE: SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 49, Chapter 6, Part 10, is amended by adding the following as a new, appropriately designated section: (a) The general assembly finds that: (1) An important purpose of science education is to inform students about scientific evidence and to help students develop critical thinking skills necessary to becoming intelligent, productive, and scientifically informed citizens; (2) The teaching of some scientific subjects, including, but not limited to, biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning, can cause controversy; and (3) Some teachers may be unsure of the expectations concerning how they should present information on such subjects. (b) The state board of education, public elementary and secondary school governing authorities, directors of schools, school system administrators, and public elementary and secondary school principals and administrators shall endeavor to create an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that encourages students to explore scientific questions, learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respect fully to differences of opinion about controversial issues. (c) The state board of education, public elementary and secondary school governing authorities, directors of schools, school system administrators, and public elementary and secondary school principals and administrators shall endeavor to assist teachers to find effective ways to present the science curriculum as it addresses scientific controversies. Toward this end, teachers shall be permitted to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught. (d) Neither the state board of education, nor any public elementary or secondary school governing authority, director of schools, school system administrator, or any public elementary or secondary school principal or administrator shall prohibit any teacher in a public school system of this state from helping students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught. (e) This section only protects the teaching of scientific information, and shall not be construed to promote any religious or non-religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs or non-beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or non-religion. SECTION 2. By no later than the start of the 2011-2012 school term, the department of education shall notify all directors of schools of the provisions of this act. Each director shall notify all employees within the director's school system of the provisions of this act. SECTION 3. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it. >> _______________ Now, let's contrast how you portrayed the law in the blog post you gave us, DS:
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 The Pulpit in the Classroom: A Biblical Agenda in Tennessee My home state of Tennessee is at it again, creating yet another law pushing obtuse agendas biased toward Conservative Christian Ideology. Very few national newspapers broke the story a few weeks back of what is already being donned as the “Monkey Law” by bloggers and reporters alike. Brought to fruition by the State Senate, this new bill opens a door for creationism to be discussed in schools here in the Mid-South. Senate Bill 893 and House Bill 368 allow teachers who do not believe in Evolution (or Climate Change for that matter) to provide a forum in the classroom to debate such established scientific theories. What many critics view as step backward for progressive thought is being presented as a means for allowing students to debate these measures for themselves, albeit under the direction of teachers who dispute scientific theory assumingly based on religious beliefs. Today, it was announced the law was indeed passed and would go into affect, opening the door once again for the classroom to turn to pulpit here in south . . .
There are a few things that are in order, on fair comment: 1 --> Let's first get a definition of lying -- yes, of lying -- on the table that I have found particularly useful (from an older version of a Wikipedia article, acc. July 23, 2011), which elaborates my all time favourite definition, from Finney: "any species of calculated deception":
To lie is to state something with disregard to the truth with the intention that people will accept the statement as truth . . . . even a true statement can be used to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being overall untruthful rather than the truthfulness of any individual statement that is considered the lie . . . . One can state part of the truth out of context, knowing that without complete information, it gives a false impression. Likewise, one can actually state accurate facts, yet deceive with them . . . . One lies by omission when omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. Also known as a continuing misrepresentation . . . . A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but still retains the purpose of getting someone to believe in an untruth . . .
2 --> Now, I note how -- unfortunately -- you start by accusing the lawmakers of trying to push "The Pulpit in the Classroom: A Biblical Agenda in Tennessee." 3 --> Observe by contrast the actual language of the Bill, where the specific focus is that the strengths and weaknesses of existing theories in the curriculum -- not novel ones -- are to be objectively evaluated. And in particular, observe Section 1 (e):
(e) This section only protects the teaching of scientific information, and shall not be construed to promote any religious or non-religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs or non-beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or non-religion.
4 --> Even if the Bill were pushed from every "fundy" pulpit in your land, and were voted by a board of Deacons of same churches, the bill represents a bulwark against Bible-based indoctrination (or other forms of indoctrination)in the classroom, by:
(i) including only evaluations of EXISTING scientific theories already in the curriculum, (ii) protecting only the presentation of "scientific information," and (iii) locking out definitively from protection, "any religious or non-religious doctrine . . . discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs or non-beliefs, or . . . discrimination for or against religion or non-religion."
5 --> If your true objection were indeed to the injection of "pulpits" -- and even that raises questions that many pulpits teach with integrity a tradition demonstrably rooted in sound philosophical approaches to building a worldview and are anchored to a gospel that (despite the dismissals of say, Dawkins et al) has solid factual foundations -- into the classroom, you should have hailed the bill as marking the definitive triumph of science and education over indoctrination. 6 --> What is quite evident, however, is that your concern is not whether pulpits are in the classroom, but whose pulpits. 7 --> It seems from your remarks, again on fair comment, that as long as the pulpiteers wear the holy lab coat and preach the doctrines of evolutionary materialism and whatever speculations are politically correct and hailed by the secular elites influenced by the above in our time, you have no problem with such, it seems. Let me again cite prof Lewontin's summary of that doctrine, as was highlighted in the OP, to illustrate a point of concern:
It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [[--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [[--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. [If you think this is quote-mined, in accord with a typical counter talking point, kindly cf the larger excerpt with annotations here on.]
. . . and, let me now back it up with a further cite from the National Science Teachers Association (NSTA) of the USA, from a formal Board declaration:
The principal product of science is knowledge in the form of naturalistic [= evolutionary materialist] concepts and the laws and theories related to those concepts . . . . [[S]cience, along with its methods, explanations and generalizations, must be the sole focus of instruction in science classes to the exclusion of all non-scientific or pseudoscientific methods, explanations, generalizations and products . . . . Although no single universal step-by-step scientific method captures the complexity of doing science, a number of shared values and perspectives characterize a scientific approach to understanding nature. Among these are a demand for naturalistic explanations supported by empirical evidence that are, at least in principle, testable against the natural world. Other shared elements include observations, rational argument, inference, skepticism, peer review and replicability of work . . . . Science, by definition, is limited to naturalistic methods and explanations and, as such, is precluded from using supernatural elements in the production of scientific knowledge. [[NSTA, Board of Directors, July 2000. Emphases added. It is worth noting that ever since Plato in The Laws Bk X, in the general context of the cited in the OP, the issue has not been natural vs supernatural, but the empirical evidence allowing distinction on reliable signs of the products of natural forces and those of ART, or design. The NSTA, at Board level is carrying forward a major misrepresentation.]
. . . which, with other declarations, teachings, cites and multiplied cases, make it all too plain that too many classrooms and lecture halls in our civilisation have been taken over by propagandistic indoctrinators dressed up in the lab coat. 8 --> In short, your effective -- though, perhaps not intended -- complaint is that the duly elected representatives of the people of Tennessee have said enough is enough and are locking out indoctrination in scientism and evolutionary materialism as well as other similar ideologically loaded and controversial ideas that are often promoted in the name of science in our day. 9 --> Perhaps, I should remind, that in living memory, eugenics was envisioned as "the self-direction of human evolution," and had swept the day as the epitome of scientific triumph. At one point, it seems there was only one major cultural voice willing to stand up against it, G K Chesterton, joined a decade later by a certain often derided former US Secretary of State and famous pacifist, William Jennings Bryan. 10 --> I beg to further remind you, that the said Eugenics was explicitly taught as scientifically warranted, in a well known textbook of that time, A Civic Biology. The book at the heart of the Scopes Monkey Trial. (Which trial, itself has been grossly distorted in the popular mind right from the outset.) 11 --> In short, it would have been a very good thing if the above cited law had been in place in 1925. Had it been in place, Mr Scopes could freely have discussed origins, but would have to leave room for scientific questions such as the objections to the Nebraska Man fossil tooth that featured in the infamous trial (it being highly relevant that Bryan hailed from Nebraska), a tooth that had been objected to as a likely tooth of a peccary, and which it turned out was exactly that. Likewise, serious questions on Eugenics as policy would have fitted in under the Bill. 12 --> As it is, you have at minimum enabled a continuing misrepresentation by failing to do duties of care to truth, accuracy and fairness. That's why Nullasalus aptly summed up in his second post on the subject:
The [Tennessee Academic Freedom] bill is brilliant precisely because it’s ridiculously tame and – to all but the most paranoid, frantic people – unobjectionable. It’s extraordinarily straightforward and easy to read, measuring in at under two pages. The language is clear – the bill covers only scientific theories rather than religious or non-religious dogma, the objections must also be scientific, the theories covered must be discussed in an objective manner, the strengths and weaknesses of various theories are to be discussed in the same manner. It’s hard to picture guidelines that could be more tame than this, since it’s pretty much a bland recipe for thinking about scientific topics in an ideal way. Yet there’s the NCSE and Eugenie Scott and company, angsting over this bill and screaming about how it’s all one big creationist ploy. And that’s where the brilliance of this bill shines: it exposes the paranoia and the downright dogmatic attitude of anyone who would oppose it. Oh, you can make it sound terrifying so long as you don’t quote it. Scream about how it’s just going to lead to creationism being taught in schools (ignore the part about how the bill can’t teach religious or non-religious dogma, or non-scientific theories.) You can work people up by insisting it was crafted by evil creationists trying to teach lies about evolution (ignore the part about teaching the strengths and weaknesses of theories in an objective manner). And as with any kind of fear-mongering or motive-mongering, that’s going to work on some people… unless and until they read the bill itself. Remember, this bill is short – all it takes is a link to it in a comments section of a blog or news site, and everyone can read the whole thing in under a minute.
======== Oh, the "tyranny" of sheer, bland reasonableness over those determined not to be reasonable! Now, DS, tell us, did you actually read the bill before you wrote your blog on it, and before you came here to comment? Did you actually read the OP above, and ponder the concerns it raises? If so, how did you come to speak as you did above, do let us know. KFkairosfocus
May 9, 2013
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Robert Byers, Try to think.Upright BiPed
May 8, 2013
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