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Bateson on common descent: No evidence but no alternative

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A friend writes to offer this excerpt from British biologist William Bateson (1861–1926):

In what follows it will be assumed that the Doctrine of Descent is true. It should be admitted from the first that the truth of the doctrine has never been proved. There is nevertheless a great balance of evidence in his favor, but it finds its support not so much in direct observation as in the difficulty of forming any alternative hypothesis. The Theory of Descent involves and
asserts that all living things are genetically connected, and this principle is at least not contrary to observation; while any alternative hypothesis involves the idea of Separate Creation which by common consent is now recognized as absurd. In favor of the Doctrine of Common Descent there is a balance of evidence; it is besides accepted by most naturalists; lastly if it is not true we can get no further with the problem; but inasmuch as it is unproven it is right that we should explicitly recognize that it is in part an assumption and that we have adopted it as a postulate. – From Bateson, W. 1894. Materials for the Study of Variation, Treated with
Especial Regard to Discontinuity in the Origin of Species. [online] Macmillan,
London.

That was the late 19th century view, for sure. But it assumes certain things, including that evolution is almost all Darwinian. But what if …

Craig Venter

Take that away, and we look at a very different picture. For example, genome mapper Craig Venter (no slouch he) made Richard Dawkins incredulous a couple years back by denying common descent. As William Dembski puts it there:

What’s significant is not so much whether Venter is right (I think he is), but what his dissent from Darwinian orthodoxy suggests about the disarray in the study of biological origins. If common descent is up for grabs, what isn’t? Imagine physics in the century after Newton questioning whether there even is such a force as gravity or suggesting that really it decomposes into several different types of gravitational forces.

Venter’s flight from orthodoxy is even more drastic. Common descent is the sanctum sanctorum of evolutionary biology. If scientists of Venter’s stature are now desecrating it, what’s next?

Well, come to think of it, Carl Woese (1928-2012), who discovered the domain of life called Archaea, and regretted that he had never fetched the vacuum cleaner for the spook of Darwin, was no fan either. Again, no slouch.

That’s a risk for a historical thesis that depends on the assumption that no alternative explanation makes any sense. Later, smart people can come up with alternative explanations in some cases. Then it’s all up for grabs.

And Bateson has only the likes of Panda’s Thumb or BioLogos to defend him.

Rotten luck, but his achievements remain.

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Comments
Why are so many arguments for Darwinian evolution so lame? And why do they get repeated over and over even after years of rebuttals?Mapou
March 25, 2015
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REC, with baraminology there would be phylogenetic trees.Joe
March 25, 2015
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Mark Frank: However, as soon as you consider multicellular life the evidence for Common Descent is overwhelming. It is all around us. Everyday we observe millions of cases of multicellular life being created from parents.
So evidence for "descent" is equal to evidence for "common descent"? The fact that flies have parents just like us is somehow evidence that we share a common ancestor? Can you elaborate on why this is exactly evidence for common descent?Box
March 25, 2015
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Mark Frank:
However, as soon as you consider multicellular life the evidence for Common Descent is overwhelming. It is all around us.
How is this evidence for Darwinian common descent and not evidence for intelligent design over time? It is common knowledge that intelligent design over time results in a hierarchical organization. A hierarchy of classes of objects is such a powerful part of intelligent design that the design tools used by software developers enforce it: new classes are created by adding functionality to existing classes. Programmers are taught to reuse what already works. Lateral (multiple) inheritance (analogous to HGT in biology) is also a powerful design technique in software development.
Everyday we observe millions of cases of multicellular life being created from parents.
So? They were designed to multiply, no?
We observe no examples whatsoever of multicellular life being created without a parent.
So? We observe intelligent design of complex mechanisms all the time. Living organisms are complex mechanisms, no?
Morphologically and genetically life falls into a hierarchy. That hierarchy corresponds pretty well with the fossil record.
So? This is precisely what we should expect from intelligent design over time.Mapou
March 25, 2015
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Putting aside the 121 year old quote for now, I'm puzzled by creationists embracing Venter. In describing his pioneering work on uncultured environmental DNA, he describes frequently invokes common descent and the tree of life, including propositions that he's looking deeper than anyone else can and exposing other branches on the tree of life. If he denies shared ancestry, why is he working on phylogenetic trees? http://www.plosone.org/article/Comments/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0018011REC
March 25, 2015
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Mendel's genetics supports baraminology and baraminology is OK with common descent inheritance. And yes, Mendel was right!Joe
March 25, 2015
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As DNA jock suggests, this sentence is pretty misplaced.
That was the late 19th century view, for sure. But it assumes certain things, including that evolution is almost all Darwinian
In the late 19th century, part of the so called "Eclipse of Darwinism" the mechanisms of evolutionary change was very much up for grabs. Bateson, through this work and others, actually even shored up the case for common descent (as well as Darwinism). He showed Mendel's genetics made more sense under his "postulate" of common descent than rival theories of inheritance. Of course, we know Mendel was right.wd400
March 25, 2015
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DNA Joke- evos throw up their hands and say "We may never know how it evolved but we are comforted by the fact that it did"Joe
March 25, 2015
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As others have noted, the headline doesn't match the content.
There is nevertheless a great balance of evidence in his favor
Of course, Bateson actually wrote:
There is nevertheless a great balance of evidence in its favour
I'll forgive News's friend for the loss of the "u" in their American edition, but the personification of the Doctrine of Descent is just weird. When Bateson wrote this passage in 1894 he was highlighting what he saw as a huge problem with the best available explanation (i.e. Darwin's) : his work led him to believe that hereditary would have to be discontinuous, when everybody reckoned that it was in fact continuous. Hence the title of his book. So, faced with this problem, did Bateson throw his hands in the air and declare "I cannot explain this. God must have done it!" Noooo, he did not. He continued to research the inheritance of variation, both experimentally (in the Cambridge Botanical Gardens) and by reading. A few years later, he discovered an obscure 34-year-old paper entitled "Versuche über Pflanzen-Hybriden" in the Proceedings of the Natural History Society of Brno. He translated this paper into English and distributed it throughout the English-speaking world, since it independently confirmed and expanded his observations that inheritance was in fact particulate, solving one of the two great problems for the Darwinian view... You may have heard of this paper.DNA_Jock
March 25, 2015
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Mark Frank and bfast- Bateson is saying that Common Descent has a hypothesis, unlike the alternatives, and that is the what tips the balance in favor of it. In other words the evidence that Common Descent is better supported is that it has a hypothesis. He even lists that as part of the evidence for Common Descent. However "The Theory of Common Design involves and asserts that all living things are genetically connected, and this principle is at least not contrary to observation"- alternative provided.Joe
March 25, 2015
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Box
BTW I really don’t see why common descent is foundational to Darwinism
I think it's a fall-back position, when everything else fails. Or it's a starting point - an assumption that supposedly fits everything together. There's an intuition that "everything is related" so that leads to the assumption that there is common descent. The term is supposed to mean "common" -- that is, every organism shares the same. So, there would be the tree-hierarchy thing. But people like Ventner propose multiple origins -- but their defenders still want to retain the term 'common'. If eukaryotes emerged multiple times independently - then there's no tree and no hierarchy. If all the unique Cambrian body plans came from different ancestors, that might make a little more sense. But the probabilities of that much simultaneous, convergent evolution with so many shared characteristics would be even more absurd to consider than the claim of a single ancestry. So, tree vs bush, descent vs decents, common vs non-common, single vs multiple origins -- all should make a huge difference. But none of it really matters as long as there can still be some sort of materialistic story of an unguided process where everything just happened to emerge and here we all are today.Silver Asiatic
March 25, 2015
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Silver Asiatic: All that matters is that unguided evolution happened – somehow. That remains sacred teaching. The rest of it is simply a matter of throwing any combination mechanisms, lucky accidents and speculations into the mix.
Exactly. Unguided is sacred. - - BTW I really don't see why common descent is foundational to Darwinism. On the one hand we are told that in Darwin's days the spontaneous generation of life wasn't regarded much of a problem, but on the other hand there is this insistence that it happened only once. Why is that?Box
March 25, 2015
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bFast Don't worry. I don't think any of the ID objectors on this site think that Joe is indicative of ID in general. I very much appreciate your integrity.Mark Frank
March 25, 2015
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LoL! Bateson wouldn't say anything about the title as he would agree with it. What he communicated demonstrates there isn't any evidence for Common Descent beyond the lack of an alternative. And we know today that Common Descent has an alternative- Bateson didn't.Joe
March 25, 2015
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Joe, if you are this determined to place what "we know" into other people's mouths, how can anybody trust any evidence you present? Bateson would not in any way agree with the title of this post. He would charge, and win if brought into a court of law, that he believes and communicated the exact opposite states. Please understand, Joe, I want to have a serious dialog on the topic of ID/evolution. To maintain my own integrity, to allow those who dialog with me to understand that they are in an honest dialog, I must speak against this kind of post.bFast
March 25, 2015
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bfast- wake up, please:
There is nevertheless a great balance of evidence in his favor, but it finds its support not so much in direct observation as in the difficulty of forming any alternative hypothesis.
That "balance" is just the absence of an alternative hypothesis, which we now know to be false.Joe
March 25, 2015
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This is a very disappointing post. It goes to the integrity of the ID community. News directly anti-quotes Bateson in the title of the post. The title reads that Bateson says, "No Evidence ..." Bateson says, "There is nevertheless a great balance of evidence in his favor" (emphasis mine.) That is just wrong. What is more wrong is that IDers are on this site busily supporting the error. I don't get us. If we cannot see our most obvious flaws of integrity, how can we possibly make the case that we are the better interpreters of the scientific data?bFast
March 25, 2015
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Andre, Its been known since the 70s that the code isn't universal. This isn't evidence against the tree of life. As for the single origin of life the evidence is consistent with either a single origin of life or multiple origins with extensive genome swapping. Theres probably no way to distinguish but neither is evidence for ID Yarrgonaut, Shouldn't the real concern be whether common descent actually happened? Whether its true? Many IDers agree with you that certain topics like the age of the earth shouldn't be brought up for strategic reasons. Doesn't this show that ID is not so much about what really happened-about science- than about pushing a political/religious agenda?RodW
March 25, 2015
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Mark Frank:
However, as soon as you consider multicellular life the evidence for Common Descent is overwhelming.
That is your deluded opinion. We don't even know what makes an organism what it is, mark. That alone proves you are nuts. Science is against you:
Loci that are obviously variable within natural populations do not seem to lie at the basis of many major adaptive changes, while those loci that seemingly do constitute the foundation of many if not most major adaptive changes are not variable.- John McDonald, “The Molecular Basis of Adaptation: A Critical Review of Relevant Ideas and Observation”, Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics: 14, 1983, p77-102
Joe
March 25, 2015
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Yarronaut:
I really think it’s not wise to try and target common descent as a point of attack on Neo-Darwinism.
It's an easy target. Why would anyone accept Common Descent given that we have no idea what makes an organism what it is?Joe
March 25, 2015
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I read Dr Behe and the "evidence" he claims supports Common Descent 1) supports a Common Design and 2) cannot be tested wrt Common Descent, meaning there is no way to test the claim that Common Descent would produce what we observe.Joe
March 25, 2015
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I really think it's not wise to try and target common descent as a point of attack on Neo-Darwinism. Considering ID is fighting an uphill battle to begin with, and there's a lot of political power and media manipulation being targeted against it, wouldn't it be wiser to choose our battles? To show my cards a bit, I actually believe in Common Descent, but I consider myself open-minded. Even so, I'd humbly submit that this is not really a hill worth dying on.Yarrgonaut
March 25, 2015
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Let’s get a bit of sanity into this.  There may some doubts about how life developed at the single cell level: did it develop once, how much HGT took place, did Eukaryotes develop once? This all happened at a microscopic level billions of years ago. How could we be sure?  However, as soon as you consider multicellular life the evidence for Common Descent is overwhelming. It is all around us.  Everyday we observe millions of cases of multicellular life being created from parents. We observe no examples whatsoever of multicellular life being created without a parent.  Morphologically and genetically  life falls into a hierarchy. That hierarchy corresponds pretty well with the fossil record. Furthermore none of this anything to do with guided or unguided. We are talking Common Descent not RM+NS. God might have guided the whole process. Many of the proID commentators on UD are convinced by the evidence for Common Descent.Mark Frank
March 25, 2015
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Rodw I call your bluff. Venter made it clear there is no universal code or a single origin of life. If you claim I'm wrong then you better show it. Again I call your bluff.Andre
March 25, 2015
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Bateson was probably referring to the fact that although the patterns of living things in the present and fossil record suggest common descent theres no way to show a direct link. This was probably written around 1900. It should be obvious that theres been a tremendous amount of evidence accumulated since then, including DNA which does show a more direct link. Its a complete misrepresentation to suggest that Venter and Woese doubted common descent in favor of what you guys believe ( ex nihilo creation) What they doubted was the simplistic tree of life that doesn't take into account lateral gene transfer. Massive sequencing projects such as Venter's have shown that most groups of organisms contain significant amounts of DNA from other groups and the paths that these sequences have taken can be mapped in detail. Some groups of bacteria result from the 50:50 fusion of 2 other groups. You guys should read Michael Behe. Hes writtin on why doubting common descent is pretty much nuts.RodW
March 25, 2015
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Aside from goodusername and his desperate attempt to defend his belief system, a number of good comments here so far. When it comes to the Darwin faithful they don't know how or why or even when their magical natural processes took place, nor do they care, but their faith and commitment demands it happened therefore "evolution-did-it". It really is the ultimate in laziness and ignorance. Watching them squirm and suspending critical thought in order to defend this ridiculous old Victorian theory really provides great insight into the mind of a group of fundamentalist believers and the great lengths at which they'll go to defend their beliefs in spite of common sense, reality and the observable world around us.humbled
March 25, 2015
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W. Bateson: There is nevertheless a great balance of evidence in his favor, (...)
What evidence would that be?
W. Bateson: (...) but it finds its support not so much in direct observation (...)
"not so much in direct observation", this is a good example of why the English are rightly renowned for their use of understatement.
W. Bateson: (...) as in the difficulty of forming any alternative hypothesis.
How difficult is it to posit the idea that life was "invented" multiple times?Box
March 25, 2015
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Goodusername I did and I stand by my point.Andre
March 25, 2015
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Andre,
I never knew assumptions counted as evidence?
They don't, obviously. But he nowhere says or implies such a bizarre thing. All he's saying is that although the balance of evidence is in favor of common descent, it is still not proven, but in the book it is going to be taken as true - i.e. an assumption and postulate.
I acknowledge that it is in part an assumption but he makes it clear that this is adopted as a result of a suggestion…. not because of EVIDENCE on a damn suggestion!
?? I think you need to read it again.goodusername
March 25, 2015
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A typical response is that Ventner didn't deny common descent and his dissent (of descent) is not a threat to evolutionary theory.
What’s significant is not so much whether Venter is right (I think he is), but what his dissent from Darwinian orthodoxy suggests about the disarray in the study of biological origins.
It's just another example of how malleable and arbitrary so-called evolutionary theory is. There could be a single common ancestor or multiple. A tree of life or a bush. The move from prokaryotes to eukaryotes, supposedly, could have happened independently multiple times, or not. None of these wildly divergent ideas matter at all to whatever is claimed for evolutionary theory. All that matters is that unguided evolution happened - somehow. That remains sacred teaching. The rest of it is simply a matter of throwing any combination mechanisms, lucky accidents and speculations into the mix.Silver Asiatic
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