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Emergence as an Explanation for Living Systems

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Yesterday I watched a re-run of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.

There. I said it.

I love Star Trek. Notwithstanding the many absurd evolution-based plotlines.

In this specific episode, Data referred to a particular characteristic of a newly-developing lifeform as an “emergent property.”

I’ve looked into the “emergence” ideas in the past, and the related self-organization hypotheses, and have never been too impressed. But it has been a while, so I thought I’d quickly navigate over to the Wikipedia page on the subject to see what it says. Now I’m a big fan of the general concept behind Wikipedia and it is a very useful tool, if used properly. Yet everyone knows that Wikipedia is a questionable source on controversial subjects. Want to know Abraham Lincoln’s birthday or the text of the Gettysburg Address? Wikipedia is great. Want to get an objective description of a controversial subject like — oh just to pick at random, say, evolution or intelligent design — and you will be sorely misled.

Emergence itself is not necessarily controversial, at least not in its simple, observationally-based definition. Wikipedia describes it as “a process whereby larger entities, patterns, and regularities arise through interactions among smaller or simpler entities that themselves do not exhibit such properties.” Fine. Nothing particularly controversial there. I’m willing to accept that as a reasonable working definition for purposes of discussion.

The problem arises when researchers or theorists imagine that emergence is an explanation for a particular phenomenon. For example, the very next paragraph on Wikipedia states, “the phenomenon life as studied in biology is commonly perceived as an emergent property of interacting molecules . . .” By labeling “life” as an “emergent property of interacting molecules” a researcher can fool herself into thinking that she has understood something foundational about life, that she has provided some kind of explanation for life. Yet she has done nothing of the sort. She has simply applied a label to her ignorance, has simply given a name to something she doesn’t understand.

The word “emerge” is typically defined as “to come forth into view or notice, as from concealment” or “to come up or arise” or “to come into existence” or “to develop”.

This is straightforward enough, and allows us to say that, in its most basic sense, the concept of “emergence” simply means that A + B leads to or develops into C. This can be deterministic or stochastic, but either way, it is quite simple. The following two sentences are substantively equivalent:

A plus B develops into C.
C is an emergent property of A plus B.

Notice that with the first sentence we would immediately ask the follow-up question: “How?” Yet with the second sentence we don’t naturally follow up with that question. Indeed, the wording gives the impression that the “how?” has been answered by the very term “is an emergent property.” But in reality, no explanation at all is offered. No “how” has been given. We don’t know one iota more about the real, underlying processes at work after reading the second sentence than the first. So we should still follow up the second sentence with an emphatic “How?”, yet the very rhetorical stance taken in the second sentence tends to discourage that critical follow-up question.

Calling a living organism an “emergent property” of various molecules, is about as helpful and intellectually vacuous as saying that the Space Shuttle is an “emergent property” of glass, metal and plastic. It isn’t helpful. It hasn’t added anything to our knowledge of what actually brought the system into being. Worse, it all too often gives the false impression that an explanation has been offered.*

Let me be clear. I am not arguing that the word “emergence” be stricken from our language. I am not suggesting that the concept, as commonly defined, might not be a helpful shorthand label that we can use in certain situations.

What I am saying is that we must be scrupulously careful to not allow the label of “emergence” to be treated as more than it is: a label that does not carry with it an actual explanation, a label that does not provide a detailed analysis, a label that (unless we are extremely vigilant) tends to mask ignorance, rather than shed light.

So, for our dear readers, two questions:

1. What, if anything, does the concept of “emergence” add to our understanding of natural phenomena? And how is calling X an “emergent property” any different from simply observing that X occurred?

2. Even if there are some phenomena that can be helpfully thought of as emergent phenomena (Wikipedia cites snowflakes, hurricanes, ripple patterns in a sand dune, etc.), what relevance does that have to the origin and development of living systems?

—–

* Laughably, Wikipedia even tries to suggest that irreducible complexity is nothing more than a case of emergence, as though that label explains the existence of irreducibly complex biological systems. Worse, not capable of seeing the irony, the intellectual pygmies who tyrannically maintain the irreducible complexity page call irreducible complexity “a pseudoscientific theory.”

Comments
In all your responses you have typed more chars telling me that I am wrong than you would have typed showing me that you were right .
Research shows that I am right. All of the ID literature says that I am right. You have never supported anything that you have said about ID. Never. You just keep saying it even after you have been corrected several times. You are pathological.Virgil Cain
July 16, 2015
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Carpathian, You aren't anyone to say anything about science. Intelligent Design has the methodology whereas your position simply makes assertions. We use science to determine that Intelligent Design exists. We use science as ID has testable entailments which have been tested and confirmed. Your flailing will never change that fact.Virgil Cain
July 16, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
Box, Carpathian loves humping strawmen. You have noticed its penchant for ridiculous absolute extremes. It is entertaining, well it was but now it just keeps repeating its refuted nonsense, like a broken record.
In all your responses you have typed more chars telling me that I am wrong than you would have typed showing me that you were right .Carpathian
July 16, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
ID is obviously plausible as the design exists and we are living in it and are part of that design. We use science to determine that Intelligent Design exists. We use science as ID has testable entailments which have been tested and confirmed.
No they haven't. You have simply made assertions. Pretend you're the designer. Try to actually do it. Show me I'm wrong by writing the specs for organisms and then implementing them.Carpathian
July 16, 2015
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Everyone, Box is the only one who has actually taken any steps in pondering these questions. I can't believe no one has asked these questions of themselves when thinking of ID. How can you simply promote something you haven't tested yourselves. There are more questions than what to do. How would be just as difficult and would be a logistics nightmare for a staff of thousands. Anyone who believes otherwise should grab a pencil and paper and attempt to do it. Imagine that changing the actual DNA is trivial. All the other questions will show ID more implausible than the needle in the haystack.Carpathian
July 16, 2015
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Box, Carpathian loves humping strawmen. You have noticed its penchant for ridiculous absolute extremes. It is entertaining, well it was but now it just keeps repeating its refuted nonsense, like a broken record.Virgil Cain
July 16, 2015
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Carpathian: If an ID designer makes a mistake however, Earth could end up being lifeless with just one mistake in a strain of bacteria.
And according to you such a catastrophe cannot happen? And only the God of the Bible can fine-tune things that way? And therefor ID is creationism? Is that your argument?Box
July 16, 2015
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ID is obviously plausible as the design exists and we are living in it and are part of that design. We use science to determine that Intelligent Design exists. We use science as ID has testable entailments which have been tested and confirmed.Virgil Cain
July 16, 2015
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Upright BiPed:
From a physical perspective, a representation is an arrangement of matter that evokes a functional effect within a system, where the arrangement of the medium and the effect it evokes are physicochemically arbitrary.
You have answered a question I haven't asked. If I had asked, "How would you describe a material object", this would have been a good answer, but I didn't ask that. What you have described could be a hammer or a piece of software and is irrelevant to my question. My first question is: "How do you determine what to do?" This is the first problem of an ID designer. If he does nothing, the global ecosystem on Earth would continue to be stable, to degenerate, or to thrive. The global ecosystem might on average be stable but what about local ones? Which ecosystems are more important in the opinion of the designer? Might one species, ours, be favoured above others? All these questions, and they are just a few that would be asked by students, are relevant in determining whether ID is plausible. If ID is not plausible, then it is simply not science.Carpathian
July 16, 2015
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Earth to Carpathian, the insipid troll- You are asking things of Intelligent Design that were never part of Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design is NOT about how life was designed. Intelligent Design does not prevent anyone from trying to answer that question. It is a separate question from whether or not life was intelligently designed. The SCIENCE of Intelligent Design is in the detection and study of design in nature. ID claims to have a step-by-step mechanism for determining if intelligent design is present or not. So biology classes would consist of identifying biological systems, sub-systems, structures and sub-structures and use that methodology to determine if what you are discussing/ studying is intelligently designed. We do not have to know who the designer was nor how it was manufactured in order to determine if design is present. As a matter of fact we first determine design is present before even asking about the specific mechanism. There are plenty of artifacts that we don’t know exactly how they were made, but guess what? They are all still artifacts. You need to get a grip and stop whining about ID. If your position had something then we wouldn't be having a discussion about ID.Virgil Cain
July 16, 2015
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wookieeb:
Carpathian: If you can’t make a “change” then “changes” can’t be made. Neither VC, nor ID ever said that.
That's true because I said it. The logic is simple. If "ID" cannot be used to make changes in the ecosystem, then changes to the ecosystem cannot be made by using ID. The above statement is true. The reason I make it is to somehow drive home the actual point I am making which everyone is evading: "How would someone perform ID?" My position is that it is impossible. Anyone can prove me wrong by simply showing how it would be done. I don't know why this is difficult as anyone who believes in ID should have already explored their answer privately and come to the conclusion that it is possible. Every time I write some software I become my own worst critic and it pays off because I find problems that I missed when developing it. Any science should be done this way. Anyone who posits a theory but doesn't try to find its flaws is not performing science.Carpathian
July 16, 2015
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Mung:
Carpathian: ID however requires infallibility which requires an infallible designer, i.e. God. Mung: Yet you managed to design and code your WEASEL+ program without being infallible.
My infallibility at coding a Weasel program would not result in an extinction of species. If an ID designer makes a mistake however, Earth could end up being lifeless with just one mistake in a strain of bacteria. "Coding" life is a serious undertaking and you are ducking the seriousness of my comment when you answer like this. Your lack of a real answer to this suggests that neither does ID.Carpathian
July 16, 2015
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Carpathian: ID however requires infallibility which requires an infallible designer, i.e. God. Yet you managed to design and code your WEASEL+ program without being infallible.Mung
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian: ID claims that the body forms that we see are best explained by ID. Where does ID claim this?Mung
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian: How do you determine what to do if you can’t see the future? How did you determine what to do when coding your WEASEL+ program? How did you look into the future and determine that no one would ever feed it an ASCII string containing a NUL character?Mung
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian:
Carpathian: If ID however, cannot be performed on living populations in their ecosystems, then ID cannot be considered as an explanation for the body plans we see. Virgil Cain: Strawman as ID doesn’t require any of that. Yes it does.
No, ID does not require any of that. Though an intelligent designer could make a change to an existing artifact if they wanted to, it is not REQUIRED. A designer making a change to an already established artifact happens all the time (ie: automobiles went from drum brakes to disc brakes, a programmer takes a perfectly running program and can add/delete/change code as they see fit). The amount of prior-existing information making up the original artifact that the designer wants to keep or discard is completely up to the designer. Or a designer could just create something completely new.
If you can’t make a “change” then “changes” can’t be made.
Neither VC, nor ID ever said that.
How do you determine what to do if you can’t see the future?
Why do you suppose a designer could not see the future? Granted, how full an extent one would need to look into the future might be debatable. But to some degree, all designers are 'seeing into the future' with respect to their designs, otherwise they would not be designing. It is part of the design "method".
Why would you change organisms for no reason?
Nobody is saying a designer would not have a reason to change (or create) something. Of course they have a reason. But that reason does not have to occur because of some future environmental need. A designer can change or create something anew simply because they want to, irregardless of what may or may not occur in the future.
Clearly there must be a reason and the designer must know that a change will be required.
Yes, there is a reason, but the change is not necessarily required.
How do you know a change will be required in the future?
Assuming a particular change is required (and not all changes need to be "required"), designers typically have a measure of foresight with regards to their creations.
If ID can’t answer these questions then the designer’s changes will be as random as “Darwinism”, with exactly the same functionality and success.
Answered in principle, and still not as "random as "Darwinism""wookieeb
July 15, 2015
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Carp,
Put some substance into your argument.
I did. But it appears to have gone completely over your head. This is not completely surprising, you’ve done absolutely nothing to try to understand your position; you simply cling to it instead.
There is no need for quibbling about definitions if you would just explicitly show me how ID could be performed
As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I did. But you are driven by a neediness to prove your point, and in that state of mind, you simply have not yet realized I gave you exactly what you asked for. As for definitions, I have no problem defining my terms. From a physical perspective, a representation is an arrangement of matter that evokes a functional effect within a system, where the arrangement of the medium and the effect it evokes are physicochemically arbitrary.
Don’t beat around the bush with metaphorical terms which is what your term “representation” comes down to.
If there is anyone here speaking in metaphorical terms, it is certainly not me. Perhaps you are one of those that think only human beings use representations. I doubt the remainder of the living kingdom is impressed by that.Upright BiPed
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian, Seeing that you refuse to reference your claims it is clear that you are nothing but an insipid troll. I have forgotten more about ID than you will ever know and I don't forget.Virgil Cain
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian:
Behe’s argument was that IC structures were irreducible.
Yes and intelligent agencies make them all of the time.
Behe’s argument against “Darwinism” was that “Darwinism” could only produce IC structures in stages but that IC structures were required to be built all at once, hence the term “irreducible”.
I explained that and you still prattle on. For natural selection to work an IC structure has to be built in one fell swoop because there isn't anything for NS to work with until the entire thing is up and running.
You are suggesting that both ID and “Darwinism” do not produce irreducibly complex structures, and further, that there is no requirement for it.
You are a moron if that is what you think I said. Grow up.Virgil Cain
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian
Behe’s argument was that IC structures were irreducible.
Materialist reductionism. Please google that and read the first 5 links you find. It will begin to explain what Behe was talking about. You might then consider reading Behe.
Behe’s argument against “Darwinism” was that “Darwinism” could only produce IC structures in stages but that IC structures were required to be built all at once, hence the term “irreducible”.
I think the only reason you haven't been banned yet here for trolling and wasting people's time is that it seems you are kind of sincere -- that is, you're totally lost but you might be willing to learn something. Then again, you have a problem with God for some reason and that is causing you to talk in circles.
You are suggesting that both ID and “Darwinism” do not produce irreducibly complex structures, and further, that there is no requirement for it.
I doubt anyone will be able to sort all of this out for you at this point. You have to go back to the beginning and try to figure out what ID is. Then come back some day and try another argument.Silver Asiatic
July 15, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
Carpathian, Behe was talking with respect to DARWINISM- you even paraphrased him saying that. Intelligent agents produce IC structures piece by piece all of the time.
Behe's argument was that IC structures were irreducible. Behe's argument against "Darwinism" was that "Darwinism" could only produce IC structures in stages but that IC structures were required to be built all at once, hence the term "irreducible". You are suggesting that both ID and "Darwinism" do not produce irreducibly complex structures, and further, that there is no requirement for it.Carpathian
July 15, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
Carpathian: If ID however, cannot be performed on living populations in their ecosystems, then ID cannot be considered as an explanation for the body plans we see. Virgil Cain: Strawman as ID doesn’t require any of that.
Yes it does. If you can't make a "change" then "changes" can't be made. Instead of hand-waving away questions, just answer them. How do you determine what to do if you can't see the future? Why would you change organisms for no reason? Clearly there must be a reason and the designer must know that a change will be required. How do you know a change will be required in the future? If ID can't answer these questions then the designer's changes will be as random as "Darwinism", with exactly the same functionality and success.Carpathian
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian, Behe was talking with respect to DARWINISM- you even paraphrased him saying that. Intelligent agents produce IC structures piece by piece all of the time. Have you no shame at all? You have serious issues.Virgil Cain
July 15, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
Irreducible Complexity is an ID term which describes structures that must appear all at once. WRONG! With ID any IC structure can be built up over time.
You've just contradicted Behe! "Irreducible" means "not "reducible". That was Behe's argument against "Darwinism", that IC parts must have appeared in one shot and that therefore, "Darwinism" was incapable of building those parts. It is also kairosfocus' 500 bit argument. You claim I'm misrepresenting ID and you have just claimed that one of it's leading proponents, Behe, is wrong.Carpathian
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian:
ID claims that the body forms that we see are best explained by ID.
There isn't any other explanation.
If ID however, cannot be performed on living populations in their ecosystems, then ID cannot be considered as an explanation for the body plans we see.
Strawman as ID doesn't require any of that.
This is the argument ID uses against “Darwinism”, i.e. that “Darwinism” is not plausible in the real world.
So to refute ID all you have to do is show that what we say is designed can arise via necessity and chance.
This is exactly my argument against ID.
You argue from ignorance hence no one listens.
To say that the ID side doesn’t need to address the same real world problems that “Darwinism” does is ridiculous.
To ignore the explanation for that and prattle on like a little baby proves you are a loser.Virgil Cain
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian, Please reference any ID literature that makes the claim you say ID makes.
Irreducible Complexity is an ID term which describes structures that must appear all at once.
WRONG! With ID any IC structure can be built up over time.
And then there’s the “Cambrian Explosion”, an ID claim of mass targeted changes.
Wrong again. Not even Meyer makes that claim. Obviously you have something wrong and should seek help, quickly.Virgil Cain
July 15, 2015
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Virgil Cain, ID claims that the body forms that we see are best explained by ID. If ID however, cannot be performed on living populations in their ecosystems, then ID cannot be considered as an explanation for the body plans we see. This is the argument ID uses against "Darwinism", i.e. that "Darwinism" is not plausible in the real world. This is exactly my argument against ID. It is implausible. To say that the ID side doesn't need to address the same real world problems that "Darwinism" does is ridiculous. We are all in this real world, and both sides have to address the problem of the plausibility of their theories in that context. If ID is implausible, it gets ruled out.Carpathian
July 15, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
Carpathian: ID claims sudden and explicit targeted changes are made to entire populations all at once,… Virgil Cain: ID does NOT make such a claim.
Of course it does. Irreducible Complexity is an ID term which describes structures that must appear all at once. And then there's the "Cambrian Explosion", an ID claim of mass targeted changes.Carpathian
July 15, 2015
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Carpathian, YOU need to put some substance in YOUR "arguments". All you do is misrepresent ID and say ID has to answer questions that have nothing to do with ID.Virgil Cain
July 15, 2015
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Upright BiPed, Put some substance into your argument. There is no need for quibbling about definitions if you would just explicitly show me how ID could be performed . Don't beat around the bush with metaphorical terms which is what your term "representation" comes down to. Show me explicitly how you would determine your "target" "representation". You can't do it because you don't have a mechanism to make that determination. Is the only required mechanism, "representation"? Then show me the form of "representation" that works as a mechanism to determine the "target". Again, every time I ask, people try to avoid the question.Carpathian
July 15, 2015
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