Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Short ID film tackles homology


That is, Darwinians argue that similar structures in life forms are powerful evidence of common ancestry. Is that so? Is It’s part of an occasional series called Long Story Short:

The biology textbook my daughter uses in high school, Miller and Levine’s Biology, is in wide use. It’s the one from Pearson with the parrot on the cover. On page 468, it employs a circular argument beloved by evolutionists: the argument from homology. The same argument features in many different textbooks. And it is regularly cited by biologists in scolding the public about their Darwin doubts.

It’s part of a freshly launched occasional series, “Long Story Short,” that compresses key points in the debate between Darwinism and intelligent design into a very welcome format: concise, accessible, and funny. As the narrator explains, “One of the main arguments Darwin used for his theory was that of homology, these odd similarities between very different animals. Why would they be so similar unless they were related?”

David Klinghoffer, “In Just Eight Minutes, New Video Punctures Evolution’s Circular “Homology” Argument” at Evolution News and Science Today
Es58, Yours seems like an interesting suggestion worth considering. Thanks. OLV
Jawa@5 & petera@6 re: "guy should be banned from this website or at least his comments removed. " Isn't the better approach like olv who gave clear answer to show the problems? Should this site become like pt where questions are just instantly ridiculed or best ignored? Some might say it's too early for this. But it should never really reach that point because it then takes on the characteristic of the current dominant paradigm (pt) and not a source of information. es58
@17 PavelU: A few days ago 'you' (we know now people are 'illusions', thank you materialism), posted a link saying that in 2015 the Origin of Life had already been explained. Who had explained it then in 2015? If it was explained in 2015, why wait 5 years? Why did not this poor scientists receive their deserved recognizement? (Oh, they are 'illusory', silly me). The link you have posted today is another red herring of 'yours'. It points to a lecture and to a thought experiment. 'Thoughts' by the way, have no meaning and point towards nothing (thank you materialism, lol). No OOL explained, sorry. Truthfreedom
as to:
as I know, Professor Lee Cronin seems to be the only person who has figured out how OOL happened and has a coherent and comprehensive explanation to prove it.
It is just that pesky little problem of an actual demonstration for the OOL that he has not quite figured out yet! :)
(July 2019) "We have no idea how to put this structure (a simple cell) together.,, So, not only do we not know how to make the basic components, we do not know how to build the structure even if we were given the basic components. So the gedanken (thought) experiment is this. Even if I gave you all the components. Even if I gave you all the amino acids. All the protein structures from those amino acids that you wanted. All the lipids in the purity that you wanted. The DNA. The RNA. Even in the sequence you wanted. I've even given you the code. And all the nucleic acids. So now I say, "Can you now assemble a cell, not in a prebiotic cesspool but in your nice laboratory?". And the answer is a resounding NO! And if anybody claims otherwise they do not know this area (of research).” - James Tour: The Origin of Life Has Not Been Explained - 4:20 minute mark (The more we know, the worse the problem gets for materialists) https://youtu.be/r4sP1E1Jd_Y?t=255 Origin of Life: An Inside Story - Professor James Tour – May 1, 2016 Excerpt: “All right, now let’s assemble the Dream Team. We’ve got good professors here, so let’s assemble the Dream Team. Let’s further assume that the world’s top 100 synthetic chemists, top 100 biochemists and top 100 evolutionary biologists combined forces into a limitlessly funded Dream Team. The Dream Team has all the carbohydrates, lipids, amino acids and nucleic acids stored in freezers in their laboratories… All of them are in 100% enantiomer purity. [Let’s] even give the team all the reagents they wish, the most advanced laboratories, and the analytical facilities, and complete scientific literature, and synthetic and natural non-living coupling agents. Mobilize the Dream Team to assemble the building blocks into a living system – nothing complex, just a single cell. The members scratch their heads and walk away, frustrated… So let’s help the Dream Team out by providing the polymerized forms: polypeptides, all the enzymes they desire, the polysaccharides, DNA and RNA in any sequence they desire, cleanly assembled. The level of sophistication in even the simplest of possible living cells is so chemically complex that we are even more clueless now than with anything discussed regarding prebiotic chemistry or macroevolution. The Dream Team will not know where to start. Moving all this off Earth does not solve the problem, because our physical laws are universal. You see the problem for the chemists? Welcome to my world. This is what I’m confronted with, every day.“ James Tour – consider one of the top 10 leading synthetic Chemists in the world https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/origin-of-life-professor-james-tour-points-the-way-forward-for-intelligent-design/
Truthfreedom, as per your request, here’s the best candidate to win the Evolution 2.0 $10M prize for proving OOL experimentally: https://beyond.asu.edu/content/2020-beyond-annual-lecture-lee-cronin I’m not sure if the award ceremony has taken place yet, but as far as I know, Professor Lee Cronin seems to be the only person who has figured out how OOL happened and has a coherent and comprehensive explanation to prove it. Did you expect somebody else to win the prize? Do you have any objection? PavelU
@4 PavelU: Pavel, please: who has won the prize for solving the puzzle of the Origin of Life? It is strange, but nobody in the scientific community knows the name/s... Could you help us? Oh wait. PavelU is an 'illusion'. And scientists are also 'illusions'. Hence it follows that the ToEvolution is also an 'illusion'. Both illus-ion and Evolut-ion end in -ion. Curious homology... Truthfreedom
PeterA: Here is the list of links as per your request: AiG: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/answersingenesis.org EN: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/evolutionnews.org RTB: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/reasons.org TO: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/talkorigins.org UD: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/uncommondescent.com PT: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/pandasthumb.org SW: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/sandwalk.blogspot.com TSZ: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/theskepticalzone.com PS: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/peacefulscience.org jawa
Jawa, That's not easy at all. How can one know the site name for those acronyms? Are you kidding me? Can't you just write the link to the Alexa source for every acronym in your list? PeterA
PeterA, you may use that link for all the sites in the list. Just change the site name. It's easy. The ? means there's no much data available to Alexa. Apparently the website is so relatively rarely visited. At some point they were over 7M. Maybe they got even worse than that? I don't know. They should invite GP to post a few comments in their website again. :) jawa
Jawa, That explains one acronym. What about the rest? Also, what does the "?" mean? PeterA
PeterA: Here is the source: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/uncommondescent.com jawa
Jawa @8: Can you either write what those acronyms mean or provide links to the source of your information? Also, what's the question mark on the last line for? Thanks. PeterA
This recent paper unintentionally points to ID: The diverse neural crest: from embryology to human pathology
The capacity of NC cells to migrate all over the developing embryo and to settle in defined sites is unique in the vertebrate embryo.
NC cells turned out to be a population of highly multipotent, flexible, proliferative cells that migrate to various sites and are largely influenced in their terminal differentiation by environmental cues.
Multipotent NC progenitors and stem cells are not only present at early stages of migration and during the formation of NC derivatives, but they later persist in an astonishing number of tissues and organs of the adult. Crucial to this wide distribution of NC-derived progenitors in time and space is the role of the vast network of PNS nerves, which convey and store multipotent NC cells of pre-glial identity (the SCPs).
The recently discovered broad distribution and versatility of NC-derived stem cells will spur future exploration of their molecular properties and responses to environmental signals. Multi-omics approaches, particularly those that have been recently developed at single cell resolution, will likely afford important novel insights into these questions in the near future.
After they have settled in their destination, NC cells fulfil multiple functions. By providing the body with the cells of the PNS, they play a major role not only in the coordination of organ functions, but also in adaptation of the organism to environmental conditions. One example of the role of the PNS is the vasoactive reactions to outside temperature; another is the efficient screen against UV radiation provided by melanocytes, a cell type of NC origin that expands, mainly in the skin. Moreover, NC-derived neuro-endocrine cells, such as those in the adrenal medulla and carotid body, enable response to environmental stress and further contribute to the maintenance of physiological homeostasis. One of the most profound discoveries in NC research was that of its paramount role in building the vertebrate head. Among multi-cellular organisms, it is in vertebrates and, in particular, in humans that the brain has reached its most complex differentiation and acquired higher-level capacities. This has coincided with the development of sense organs and the elaboration of complex facial structures to enable and protect them, a function that has been accomplished by the cells of the NC.
Website Alexa ranks Total sites linking in AiG:...........................40,437...............................4,041 EN:............................198,977..................................865 RTB:........................385,319...................................980 TO:...........................582,624...............................2,757 UD:...........................745,410...................................648 PT:.......................2,093,939................................1,029 SW:.....................2,159,506...................................474 TSZ:.....................4,033,772.....................................44 PS:.....................................?................................................15 jawa
Contrary to what PavelU claims, the cited paper doesn't explain evolution, but makes unfounded claims about it. Co-option of the PRDM14-CBFA2T complex from motor neurons to pluripotent cells during vertebrate evolution
Gene regulatory networks underlying cellular pluripotency are controlled by a core circuitry of transcription factors in mammals, including POU5F1. However, the evolutionary origin and transformation of pluripotency-related transcriptional networks have not been elucidated in deuterostomes.
the co-option of the PRDM14-CBFA2T complex from motor neurons into pluripotent cells may have maintained the transcriptional network for pluripotency during vertebrate evolution.
Germ cell specification in multicellular organisms is subdivided into two modes: preformation and epigenesis In different species, germ cell specification can occur via either of two modes. During preformation, cytoplasmic germ cell determinants, known as the germ plasm, are asymmetrically localised in oocytes and predetermine the cellular competency for germ cell formation, e.g. in flies, worms, teleost fishes and frogs. In contrast, germ cells are segregated from pluripotent cells, which can differentiate into both germ cells and somatic cells, by receiving induction signals from surrounding tissues in epigenesis, e.g. in salamanders, mice and humans
The phylogenetic distribution of preformation and epigenesis in metazoans implies that epigenesis is an ancestral mode of germ cell formation and that preformation evolved repeatedly and independently
we consider it to be an essential challenge to uncover the de novo mechanisms stabilising pluripotency transcriptional networks during the emergence of mammals.
Actually, the paper indirectly supports ID. OLV
Jawa, wouldn't it be better to ignore his innocuously meaningless posts? the guy doesn't seem to have any idea of what is written in the papers he points at. PeterA
There goes PavelU again... I agree with BA77 that this guy should be banned from this website or at least his comments removed. It's annoying. jawa
Doesn't this paper explain vertebrate evolution? https://dev.biologists.org/content/146/2/dev168633 PavelU
"a circular argument beloved by evolutionists" Those Evolutionists sure love their illogical theory, don't they? ;) Andrew asauber
Excellent production. Clearly stated and an engaging tone throughout. Very good job! Silver Asiatic
Hilarious. And impeccable edition. Congratulations makers! :) "Evolution's Circular Reasoning and Genomics" 'When trying to prove their theory, evolutionists often use circular reasoning. Here's a simple example. In his book The Making of the Fittest, Sean Carroll writes "the degree of similarity in DNA is an index of the [evolutionary] relatedness of species." [98] This can only make sense if we first assume evolution is true. But Carroll's book is a defense of evolution, intended to demonstrate to skeptics that the theory is true. He seeks to prove evolution is true, but he begins with evolutionary reasoning and interpretations. That is circular reasoning. Unfortunately such circular reasoning is a common motif in the evolution genre'. http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2009/05/evolutions-circular-reasoning-and.html?m=1 Truthfreedom

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