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Latest evo theory features shoulder, not hand

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And not even bipedalism (that’s feet, right?)

From ScienceDaily:

What the last common ancestor between humans and African apes looked like has remained unclear. A new study now shows that important clues lie in the shoulder.

“Humans are unique in many ways. We have features that clearly link us with African apes, but we also have features that appear more primitive, leading to uncertainty about what our common ancestor looked like,” said Nathan Young, PhD, assistant professor at UC San Francisco School of Medicine and lead author of the study. “Our study suggests that the simplest explanation, that the ancestor looked a lot like a chimp or gorilla, is the right one, at least in the shoulder.”

Which should be an indictment of his whole field, but notice that no pop science medium treats it that way.

It appears, he said, that shoulder shape tracks changes in early human behavior such as reduced climbing and increased tool use.

So all we needed was a change in shoulder shape?

Who pays for this stuff anyhow?

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See also: The Science Fictions series at your fingertips (human evolution)

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10 Replies to “Latest evo theory features shoulder, not hand

  1. 1
    goodusername says:

    And not even bipedalism (that’s feet, right?)

    Yes. We do walk on our feet, if that’s what you’re asking.

    Which should be an indictment of his whole field, but notice that no pop science medium treats it that way.

    That our ancestors looked more like apes is an indictment of the entire field of evolution?

    What should our ancestors have looked like, according to evolutionists?

    So all we needed was a change in shoulder shape?

    In order to do what?

    Are you asking if the researchers believe that the shoulder was the only thing that changed in human evolution?

    Just because the shoulder was the focus of this study, that doesn’t mean that they think the shoulder was the only thing that changed, or even the most important change. (You realize that, right?)

  2. 2
    ppolish says:

    “Just because the shoulder was the focus of this study, that doesn’t mean that they think the shoulder was the only thing that changed, or even the most important change. (You realize that, right?)”

    You realize no one said that, right Goodusername? No? Well, no one did. You’re welcome.

    Coming down from the trees and using tools. Wow, deep discovery.

  3. 3
    wd400 says:

    Except News, displaying her usual depth of understanding and comprehension of the article, did say that ppolish.

    “So all we needed was a change in shoulder shape?”

  4. 4
    Andre says:

    WD400 understands evolution perfectly and can easily demonstrate with an experiment how the first ever protein came to be. Stop saying people don’t understand evolution if you did you’d demonstrate so with evidence.

  5. 5
    Andre says:

    We are tired of just so stories or better known as the atheist creation narrative. It’s false get over it, if you had one shred of evidence we’d all be quiet. But you have nothing, zip Nada. …. Only your just so stories. I have to admit they are very good had me fooled for a long time but when you start asking actual questions you quickly realize it’s total nonsense.

  6. 6
    wd400 says:

    Right thread Andre? Looks a lot like spam in this one…

  7. 7
    Andre says:

    WD400

    And there it is ask you to demonstrate your claim and your brain shuts down.

  8. 8
    wd400 says:

    I really have no idea what you are going on about, it doesn’t seem to be related to anything in this thread though…

  9. 9
    bornagain77 says:

    In the article genetic reductionism is assumed as true:

    “The researchers’ next step will be to analyze variability in the shoulder blade of modern humans and the genetic sequences that cause those differences”,,,

    Small problem with their assumption of genetic reductionism is that it is now known that the 3-Dimensional shape of an organism, or shape of shoulders, or the shape of anything else in an organism, is not reducible to the sequential information on DNA.

    Response to John Wise – October 2010
    Excerpt: A technique called “saturation mutagenesis”1,2 has been used to produce every possible developmental mutation in fruit flies (Drosophila melanogaster),3,4,5 roundworms (Caenorhabditis elegans),6,7 and zebrafish (Danio rerio),8,9,10 and the same technique is now being applied to mice (Mus musculus).11,12 None of the evidence from these and numerous other studies of developmental mutations supports the neo-Darwinian dogma that DNA mutations can lead to new organs or body plans–because none of the observed developmental mutations benefit the organism.
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....38811.html

    ‘No matter what we do to a fruit fly embryo there are only three possible outcomes, a normal fruit fly, a defective fruit fly, or a dead fruit fly. What we never see is primary speciation much less macro-evolution’ –
    Jonathan Wells
    Darwin’s Theory – Fruit Flies and Morphology – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJTIwRY0bs

    “Viable mutations with major morphological or physiological effects are exceedingly rare and usually infertile; the chance of two identical rare mutant individuals arising in sufficient propinquity to produce offspring seems too small to consider as a significant evolutionary event. These problems of viable “hopeful monsters” render these explanations untenable.”
    Paleobiologists Douglas Erwin and James Valentine

    “Yet by the late 1980s it was becoming obvious to most genetic researchers, including myself, since my own main research interest in the ‘80s and ‘90s was human genetics, that the heroic effort to find the information specifying life’s order in the genes had failed. There was no longer the slightest justification for believing that there exists anything in the genome remotely resembling a program capable of specifying in detail all the complex order of the phenotype (Body Plan).”
    Michael John Denton page 172 of Uncommon Dissent

    Stephen Meyer states that neo-Darwinists can mutate DNA ’til the cows come home’ and it is not going to help them:

    ‘Now one more problem as far as the generation of information.,,,
    Body-Plan morphogenesis, as it is called, depends upon information that is not encoded on DNA. Which means you can mutate DNA indefinitely. 80 million years, 100 million years, til the cows come home. It doesn’t matter, because in the best case you are just going to find a new protein some place out there in that vast combinatorial sequence space. You are not, by mutating DNA alone, going to generate higher order structures that are necessary to building a body plan. So what we can conclude from that is that the neo-Darwinian mechanism is grossly inadequate to explain the origin of information necessary to build new genes and proteins, and it is also grossly inadequate to explain the origination of novel biological form.’
    Stephen Meyer – (excerpt taken from Meyer/Sternberg vs. Shermer/Prothero debate – 2009) (52:57 minute mark)
    https://youtu.be/7yqqlZ29gcU?t=3177

    In fact, in direct contradiction to neo-Darwinian thought, the ‘form’ of a organism is found to be primary and the material particulars are found to be subsidiary:

    HOW BIOLOGISTS LOST SIGHT OF THE MEANING OF LIFE — AND ARE NOW STARING IT IN THE FACE – Stephen L. Talbott – May 2012
    Excerpt: “The same sort of question can be asked of cells, for example in the growing embryo, where literal streams of cells are flowing to their appointed places, differentiating themselves into different types as they go, and adjusting themselves to all sorts of unpredictable perturbations — even to the degree of responding appropriately when a lab technician excises a clump of them from one location in a young embryo and puts them in another, where they may proceed to adapt themselves in an entirely different and proper way to the new environment. It is hard to quibble with the immediate impression that form (which is more idea-like than thing-like) is primary, and the material particulars subsidiary.”
    http://www.netfuture.org/2012/May1012_184.html#2

    What Do Organisms Mean? Stephen L. Talbott – Winter 2011
    Excerpt: Harvard biologist Richard Lewontin once described how you can excise the developing limb bud from an amphibian embryo, shake the cells loose from each other, allow them to reaggregate into a random lump, and then replace the lump in the embryo. A normal leg develops. Somehow the form of the limb as a whole is the ruling factor, redefining the parts according to the larger pattern. Lewontin went on to remark: “Unlike a machine whose totality is created by the juxtaposition of bits and pieces with different functions and properties, the bits and pieces of a developing organism seem to come into existence as a consequence of their spatial position at critical moments in the embryo’s development. Such an object is less like a machine than it is like a language whose elements… take unique meaning from their context.[3]”,,,
    http://www.thenewatlantis.com/.....nisms-mean

    DNA doesn’t even tell teeth what they should look like – April 3, 2014
    Excerpt: A friend writes to mention a mouse experiment where developing tooth buds were moved so that the incisors and the molars were switched. The tooth buds became the tooth appropriate to the switched location, not the original one, in direct contrast to what we would expect from a gene’centric view.
    http://www.uncommondescent.com.....look-like/

    Epigenetics and neuroplasticity: The case of the rewired ferrets – April 3, 2014
    Excerpt: Like inventive electricians rewiring a house, scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have reconfigured newborn ferret brains so that the animals’ eyes are hooked up to brain regions where hearing normally develops.
    The surprising result is that the ferrets develop fully functioning visual pathways in the auditory portions of their brains. In other words, they see the world with brain tissue that was only thought capable of hearing sounds.
    http://www.uncommondescent.com.....d-ferrets/

    “Last year I had a fair chunk of my nose removed in skin cancer surgery (Mohs). The surgeon took flesh from a nearby area to fill in the large hole he’d made. The pictures of it were scary. But in the healing process the replanted cells somehow ‘knew’ how to take a different shape appropriate for the new location so that the nose now looks remarkably natural. The doctor said he could take only half the credit because the cells somehow know how to change form for a different location (though they presumably still follow the same DNA code) . — I’m getting the feeling that we’ve been nearly as reductionist in the 20-21st century as Darwin and his peers were when they viewed cells as little blobs of jelly.”
    leodp – UD blogger

    In fact it is found, in direct contradiction to neo-Darwinian thought, that it is the organism controlling the DNA not the DNA controlling the organism:

    Ask an Embryologist: Genomic Mosaicism – Jonathan Wells – February 23, 2015
    Excerpt: I taught genomic equivalence for many years. A few years ago, however, everything changed. With the development of more sophisticated techniques and the sampling of more tissues and cells, it became clear that genetic mosaicism is common.
    I now know as an embryologist,,,Tissues and cells, as they differentiate, modify their DNA to suit their needs. It’s the organism controlling the DNA, not the DNA controlling the organism.
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....93851.html

    A particularly clear example of the organism controlling the DNA and not the DNA controlling the organism is found in ‘radioactive bacteria’

    Extreme Genome Repair – 2009
    Excerpt: If its naming had followed, rather than preceded, molecular analyses of its DNA, the extremophile bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans might have been called Lazarus. After shattering of its 3.2 Mb genome into 20–30 kb pieces by desiccation or a high dose of ionizing radiation, D. radiodurans miraculously reassembles its genome such that only 3 hr later fully reconstituted nonrearranged chromosomes are present, and the cells carry on, alive as normal.,,,
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm.....MC3319128/

  10. 10
    bornagain77 says:

    In the lab, scientists coax E. coli to resist radiation damage – March 17, 2014
    Excerpt: ,,, John R. Battista, a professor of biological sciences at Louisiana State University, showed that E. coli could evolve to resist ionizing radiation by exposing cultures of the bacterium to the highly radioactive isotope cobalt-60. “We blasted the cultures until 99 percent of the bacteria were dead. Then we’d grow up the survivors and blast them again. We did that twenty times,” explains Cox.
    The result were E. coli capable of enduring as much as four orders of magnitude more ionizing radiation, making them similar to Deinococcus radiodurans, a desert-dwelling bacterium found in the 1950s to be remarkably resistant to radiation. That bacterium is capable of surviving more than one thousand times the radiation dose that would kill a human.
    http://www.news.wisc.edu/22641

    Needless to say, these findings are in direct contradiction to the neo-Darwinian model which holds that it is DNA, particularly mutations to DNA, that are generating new body plans.

    Of related interest, genetic similarity between chimps and humans has now been found to have been greatly exaggerated by neo-Darwinists

    Comprehensive Analysis of Chimpanzee and Human Chromosomes Reveals Average DNA Similarity of 70% – by Jeffrey P. Tomkins – February 20, 2013
    Excerpt: For the chimp autosomes, the amount of optimally aligned DNA sequence provided similarities between 66 and 76%, depending on the chromosome. In general, the smaller and more gene-dense the chromosomes, the higher the DNA similarity—although there were several notable exceptions defying this trend. Only 69% of the chimpanzee X chromosome was similar to human and only 43% of the Y chromosome. Genome-wide, only 70% of the chimpanzee DNA was similar to human under the most optimal sequence-slice conditions. While, chimpanzees and humans share many localized protein-coding regions of high similarity, the overall extreme discontinuity between the two genomes defies evolutionary timescales and dogmatic presuppositions about a common ancestor.
    http://www.answersingenesis.or.....chromosome

    The Myth of 98% Genetic Similarity (and Chromosome Fusion) between Humans and Chimps – Jeffrey Tomkins PhD. – video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKO5mtdA0o4

    Moreover, the regulatory regions between chimps and humans, i.e. the genomic regions that are involved in controlling how and when the genes get used, are found to be ‘species specific’, i.e. are found to be even more different than the genes are:

    An Interview with Stephen C. Meyer
    TT: Is the idea of an original human couple (Adam and Eve) in conflict with science? Does DNA tell us anything about the existence of Adam and Eve?
    SM: Readers have probably heard that the 98 percent similarity of human DNA to chimp DNA establishes that humans and chimps had a common ancestor. Recent studies show that number dropping significantly. More important, it turns out that previous measures of human and chimp genetic similarity were based upon an analysis of only 2 to 3 percent of the genome, the small portion that codes for proteins. This limited comparison was justified based upon the assumption that the rest of the genome was non-functional “junk.” Since the publication of the results of something called the “Encode Project,” however, it has become clear that the noncoding regions of the genome perform many important functions and that, overall, the non-coding regions of the genome function much like an operating system in a computer by regulating the timing and expression of the information stored in the “data files” or coding regions of the genome. Significantly, it has become increasingly clear that the non-coding regions, the crucial operating systems in effect, of the chimp and human genomes are species specific. That is, they are strikingly different in the two species. Yet, if alleged genetic similarity suggests common ancestry, then, by the same logic, this new evidence of significant genetic disparity suggests independent separate origins. For this reason, I see nothing from a genetic point of view that challenges the idea that humans originated independently from primates,
    http://www.ligonier.org/learn/.....-conflict/

    Richard Sternberg PhD – podcast – On Human Origins: Is Our Genome Full of Junk DNA? Part 2. (Major Differences in higher level chromosome spatial organization between chimps, humans and everything else)
    http://www.discovery.org/multi.....-dna-pt-2/

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