Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

The Meat of the Matter

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

I invite our readers to review my last post and the exchanges between me and eigenstate (hereafter “E”) in the combox.  I could go through a point-by-point rebuttal of eigenstate’s comments, but it would be pointless, because far from rebutting the central thrust of the post, he did not lay a finger on it.   Here is the central argument of that post:  The immaterial mind exists.  Everyone knows the immaterial mind exists.  Its existence is, indeed, the primordial datum that one simply cannot not know.  Therefore, any denial of the existence of the immaterial mind is not only false; it is incoherent.  Hence, the immaterial mind is not an “explanation” of any sort; it is a datum one must take into account in any robust (indeed, any coherent) ontology.  And if your metaphysics requires you to deny this undeniable fact, that is a problem with your metaphysics, not the fact.

In response E screams over and over and over (one can just imagine his wild eyes rolling back in his head as spittle spews from his lips) “I’m a meat robot; I’m a meat robot; I’m a meat robot.  And so are you.”  One wonders why a meat robot is so passionate about evangelizing all of the other meat robots to ensure they know (can meat “know”?) the true nature of their meatiness.

But E, you might object, it is absurd to say that the physical components of brain meat (oxygen atoms, hydrogen atoms, carbon atoms, etc.) can exhibit the attributes of an immaterial mind such as subjective self-awareness, qualia, intentionality, and the perception of subject-object duality.  Isn’t it just as absurd to say that amalgamations of the physical components of brain meat can exhibit those attributes?  Stupid! E responds.  You have committed the fallacy of composition.  What is the fallacy of composition?  That is indeed a real logical fallacy.  It means that it is fallacious to infer that a whole can exhibit only the attributes of its individual parts.  Here’s an example of the fallacy:  An individual brick cannot provide shelter; therefore a house made of bricks cannot provide shelter.   How does this apply to brain meat?  According to E, brain meat as a whole has properties far different from its meaty components, and one of those properties is the capacity to delude itself into believing it has the attributes of an immaterial mind.

Now, to his credit, I am sure E will be the first to admit that not all kinds of meat have this capacity.  Indeed, brain meat is the only kind of meat that we know of that does.  And what is the difference between brain meat and other kinds of meat that accounts for this difference?  It is all a matter of how the meat is arranged.  “Structure matters,” E observes pedantically.  Wait just a minute.  Is E saying that if a rib eye steak were structured just a little differently it would be conscious?  Well, yes, that is kind of the gist of it.  But where is the dividing line between non-conscious rib eye steak kinds of meat and conscious brain meat, you might ask.  Well, here is where things get a little murky.  But according to E, if we arrange the same stuff that rib eye steaks are made of (oxygen atoms, hydrogen atoms, carbon atoms, etc.) into a particularly complex configuration, at some point . . . wait for it . . . poof! you get meat that (has the illusion of) self-awareness, qualia, intentionality, and the perception of subject-object duality.

That’s right.  It turns out that invoking the fallacy of composition is actually just a backhanded way of invoking Poof! It emerged.  And like all emergentist accounts of consciousness, the pesky details about how consciousness (or the illusion thereof) emerges from simpler kinds of meat are never explained.  It really is just that simple.  E’s reasoning goes something like this:  You commit the fallacy of composition if you deny that houses emerge from bricks arranged in a particular way; and in just the same way you commit the fallacy of composition if you deny that consciousness emerges from meaty components arranged in a certain way.

“But,” you might object, “meaty components – no matter how complex the arrangement – are still, well, you know, meat, which is a physical thing.  How can an immaterial mental phenomenon like consciousness emerge from meat?  Isn’t that a category error?”  Now here is where E’s evangelism takes on a fundamentalist zeal reminiscent of an Appalachian snake handler.  In response to such a question he would stand to his feet, stretch out his arm, point his boney finger at you, and scream “Infidel!”  You see, E is committed to materialism with an intense quasi-religious fervor, and he holds his faith commitments with a dogmatic, brassbound and rigid fideism that would make a medieval churchman blush.  After he caught his breath and got his heart rate under control, he would reply breathlessly, “There can be no category error, because there is only one category and that category is physical; thus sayeth the prophets of materialism.”

Here is where the story gets very sad.  You see, materialism is a stunted, narrow-minded and provincial way of looking at the world.  A more robust ontology allows one to take the world as he finds it and revel in the full panoply of its grandeur, beauty and mystery.  But materialism says if self-evident facts conflict with its precepts, to hell with the facts; the precepts come first.  The god of materialism is a harsh taskmaster, and he forces all of his servants to wear blinders lest they be tempted to behold the forbidden facts.  And E, having heeded his god and donned his blinders, literally cannot see the beauty, vastness and glory of his immaterial mind.  Instead, he stamps his foot, gets red in the face, and chants, “I’m a meat robot; I’m a meat robot.”  Madness; sheer madness.

 

Comments
Nice post Barry - some great insights to consider ...
Is E saying that if a rib eye steak were structured just a little differently it would be conscious? Well, yes, that is kind of the gist of it.
That's really the materialist fairy tale in essence. It explains the origin of life and the origin of consciousness - among many other things - through a "poof event" that emerges from "a little different structure". So, there's one physical structure with no consciousness. Then, later, through the scientific process of "poof", there is subjective self-awareness, qualia, intentionality, the perception of subject-object duality, moral awareness, conscious knowledge, spiritual aspirations. "Wait a minute. Poof doesn't just happen!" Yes, that's true. It requires not only "a little different structure", but "a few good mutations". So, with gradualism, we have non-consciousness, then with a few good mutations and a little different structure, only then will the required poof-event occur. Thus we have conscious minds (or so it is said).
But according to E, if we arrange the same stuff that rib eye steaks are made of (oxygen atoms, hydrogen atoms, carbon atoms, etc.) into a particularly complex configuration, at some point . . . wait for it . . . poof! you get meat that (has the illusion of) self-awareness, qualia, intentionality, and the perception of subject-object duality.
That's a perfect summary-abstract of the entire catalogue of academic work on "emergence". :-) Change the vocabulary a bit and it should certainly pass peer-review. The very same concept works for origin of life also -- thus the great efficiency of this single explanation. Occam's Razor in action! At one moment, we have inanimate chemical compounds. Then, when they're arranged in a little different structure "poof!" life emerges. That's just the way the science works. :-)
“There can be no category error, because there is only one category and that category is physical; thus sayeth the prophets of materialism.”
That's fascinating and true. Materialism is monistic - there's only one category so there can't be a category error. In fact, there can't be any error. There is only the physical. So, the physical is "true". There is no "non-physical", so there can't be any category of "false".Silver Asiatic
May 13, 2015
May
05
May
13
13
2015
05:28 AM
5
05
28
AM
PDT
Box, The mere possibility that matter arranged by chance and natural could by happenstance fall upon a true thought is enough for the materialist. Their beliefs are built on any bare possibility that supports their preferred worldview - the bare possibility that a self-replicating 3D printer could spontaneously arise from a pool of chemicals,; the bare possibility that the universe could be so finely tuned by chance; the bare possibility that matter can produce intention, qualia, symbols and oughts.William J Murray
May 13, 2015
May
05
May
13
13
2015
05:11 AM
5
05
11
AM
PDT
Well, in a thread about meat, we could hardly forget Terry Bisson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tScAyNaRdQZachriel
May 13, 2015
May
05
May
13
13
2015
04:16 AM
4
04
16
AM
PDT
Eigenstate, If reason is first and foremost dictated by matter—blind, unintelligent, without overview and uninterested in matters of truth, logic and coherence—then what is reason? How can it possibly work? How can it be trusted? IOW how does one get from chemistry to reason?
Reppert: . . let us suppose that brain state A, which is token identical to the thought that all men are mortal, and brain state B, which is token identical to the thought that Socrates is a man, together cause the belief that Socrates is mortal. It isn’t enough for rational inference that these events be those beliefs, it is also necessary that the causal transaction be in virtue of the content of those thoughts . . . [But] if naturalism is true, then the propositional content is irrelevant to the causal transaction that produces the conclusion, and [so] we do not have a case of rational inference. In rational inference, as [C S] Lewis puts it, one thought causes another thought not by being, but by being seen to be, the ground for it. But causal transactions in the brain occur in virtue of the brain’s being in a particular type of state that is relevant to physical causal transactions.
- - Note: I've put this question to Eigenstate several times before, but to this date he studiously ignored it.Box
May 13, 2015
May
05
May
13
13
2015
03:19 AM
3
03
19
AM
PDT
The weight of the internet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaUzu-iksi8Andre
May 12, 2015
May
05
May
12
12
2015
11:50 PM
11
11
50
PM
PDT
Again I ask how does Eigenstate fit an entire horse in his brain when he thinks about a horse? Eigenstate any thoughts on this?Andre
May 12, 2015
May
05
May
12
12
2015
11:30 PM
11
11
30
PM
PDT
1 3 4 5

Leave a Reply