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A Materialist Gets It (Almost)

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A recent exchange with Allan Keith illustrates how materialists have allowed their intellect to become literally enslaved to their metaphysical commitments.  Allan proves one can understand the logic fully and even accept the logic.  And then turn right around and deny the conclusions compelled by the logic.  Let’s see how:

We will pick up the exchange where Allan has admitted that we have countless trillions of examples of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity caused by humans.

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Barry:

You admit that we have countless trillions of examples of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity from humans. So far so good.

What is it about humans that enables them to cause those things Allan? Intelligence.

So now we have countless trillions of examples of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity from humans on account of their intelligence.

We have observed exactly ZERO instances of any other cause accounting for functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.

Put it together Allan. Human intelligence is the only certainly known source of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.

Therefore, when we see functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity whose origins we do not know, we have a choice:

1 Attribute it to the only cause known with certainty to produce it, i.e. intelligence.
2 Attribute it to causes that have never been observed producing it.

Answer 1 is obviously best.

Allan responds:

Option 1 does not follow from your logic. The logical option 1 would be:  Attribute it to the only cause known with certainty to produce it, i.e. Human intelligence.

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I understand Allan’s metaphysical commitments prevent him from following the logic beyond a certain point, but his response is still very sad.  I wonder if he ever gets tired of wearing those blinkers.

What is wrong with Allan’s reply?  It steadfastly ignores the glaringly obvious fact that intelligence (not the more narrow “human intelligence”) is the causal factor.

In other words, the thing about humans that makes them a special case is not that they are a member of the Animalia kingdom, or the Chordata phylum, or the Mammalia class, or the Primate order, or the Homo genus or the Homo sapiens species.  The thing that distinguishes humans is reflected in the name of the species.  (“Homo sapiens” means literally “wise man.”) The distinguishing characteristic of the species is intelligence.

It is that characteristic and nothing else that accounts for the ability of Homo sapiens to cause functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.*

Now it is certainly true that the species Homo sapiens is the only species of which we have observational evidence that it causes functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.  Allan seems to believe that fact compels the conclusion that we can infer only “human design” from an observed instance of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.

Nonsense.  Not even Allan’s fellow materialists agree with him:

BEN STEIN: What do you think is the possibility that Intelligent Design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics or in Darwinian evolution.

DAWKINS: Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Um, now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it’s possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer. . . . And that Designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe.  But that higher intelligence would itself have had to have come about by some explicable, or ultimately explicable process. It couldn’t have just jumped into existence spontaneously. That’s the point

Dawkins understands, as Allan apparently does not, that it is the intelligence, not its instantiation in any particular species, that is important when it comes to inferring design.

UPDATE:

To his credit, Allan now admits the obvious:

Design inference is based almost solely on a comparison to human design. This can certainly be used to infer design in biology . . .

But he cannot resist adding an unwarranted disclaimer:

. . . but with only one known source of intelligence as a frame of reference, the inference is weak. That is statistical reality speaking, not me. But even a weak inference can strengthen support for ID if there were other avenues of examination that support ID.

Why does Allan consider the inference weak?  Because his metaphysical commitments, not logic, compel that conclusion.  Again, here is the logic:

  1. Object X exhibits functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity.
  2. The ONLY KNOWN CAUSE of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity is design by an intelligent agent.
  3. Inferring to best explanation, the only known cause of functional complexity, semiosis and irreducible complexity (i.e., intelligent design) is the cause of the functional complexity, semiosis or  irreducible complexity in Object X.

Allan insists the inference is “weak,” even though he admits the inference as to cause is to the only known cause of the phenomenon.  Why?  Statistics.  Nonsense.  It is not a statistical analysis.  It is a logical analysis.

 

 

 

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*Let’s not get bogged down with beavers and bees.  The international space station is obviously different in kind and not merely degree from a beaver dam.  Anyone who denies this disqualifies themselves from being considered serious.

 

Comments
In Bible, there are two verses regarding the design in the creation of earth. Job 28:27 1) Design(Vision), 2) Make 3) Prevision 4) Yes! 5) Examine Isaiah 45:18 1) Design(Form) 2) Make 3) Provision This procedure is the same as I was developing network devices in our labs. In ancient days, there was no concept for "Design". When you check these verses in Hebrew, you will find the exact meaning of these verses. And Bible says that God made the world by Wisdom which is the same meaning of Intelligence. Please see Job 28:20~28. JVL, We cannot see the designer, our God who made all the world. We can see Him in faith only. The Wisdom is Jesus Christ who came to us 2000 years ago. Bible says that the source of intelligence/Wisdom is God. God gave the wisdom/intelligence to me and you, so we can think and make sentences now. If not? There is nothing!KD Jung
March 25, 2018
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Upright Biped So, it appears that even the most elementary problems with your position toward ID (those that are both fundamental and obvious) sail past you without even a quiver of curiosity. That sort of puts your attack on ID into perspective, does it not? I wasn't 'attacking' ID at all. I've offered my opinion but it's not up to me how you guys proceed. kairosfocus Once a designer is not IMPOSSIBLE, such is possible, and indeed we are designers. In that context, empirically well founded and tested, reliable signs of design should be allowed to speak. There are a lot of things that are not impossible. You can't prove a negative after all. A vast majority of biologists don't think you've established your design inference. That coupled with the lack of supporting evidence for a designer present at . . . . what time did you say? . . . . make it hard to progress forward. I'm happy to consider design but I just don't see that you have much of a case at this point. No, I will not set the evidence aside and duly note that you do not have an alternative explanation that would pass the vera causa test — or you would have given it. In short, the just above shows that you are reduced to selective hyperskeptical dismissal of the evidence we have. Evidence that is strong. Well, we see things differently. We have every epistemic right to infer that we have here a strong sign of design as cause, and to indicate that it is those who object who need to meet a burden of fulfilling the vera causa standard. Well, you can always ask but don't blame me if most of the biologists in the world chose not to alter their behaviour. The sorts of response we see suggest, there is little hope of doing so, doubtless for the same needle in haystack challenge reasons. The matter is not even close on the merits; though the well warranted answer is obviously not welcomed by the new magisterium. I think you need more evidence. That would help your cause. tribune7 So if you find some drawings on a wall in some barren desert but no corpses, tools, defecation etc. you would reject them as design? If they were clearly drawings and not interpreted random patterns then no, I would not reject them as being designed. But inanimate objects are always easier to analyse. Barry Arrington You don’t get out much do you? Behe’s department has famously posted a page on the university’s website ostracizing him. I have already expressed my opinion on this matter earlier in the thread. ET Are you daft? I asked for a scientific theory of evolution and once again you FAILed. And, as I mentioned later, Futuyma also has a list of five sub-theories that make up the whole theory of evolution. EugeneS First, why are you so sure there wasn’t any? I'm not sure but I've seen no evidence there were any. Second, what are the alternatives? To accept Hawking’s stupid idea of a universe creating itself out of nothing?! This is not even wrong! It is so blatantly stupid. If we had classical education of the past, this kind of ‘reasoning’ could never have occurred. Ph.D. actually means “Doctor of Philosophy”. What kind of philosophy is that? Cosmology is not something I'm really conversant in. So I'll just pass I think. As somebody rightly noted here, until such time as one actually demonstrates abiogenesis (on the premise that NO explicit or implicit involvement of an experimenter takes place beyond providing initial chemical conditions), design is a scientifically valid hypothesis. They may keep ridiculing it but that is the bare truth they can do nothing about. It's an hypothesis, but mostly a vague and unspecified one. I have a hard time just getting ID proponents to indicate when design was implemented, gpuccio aside. Allan Keith Every new idea had to fight for its place at the table by supporting it with compelling hypotheses, testing, evidence, observations. Evolution wasn’t just ‘welcomed’. The theory had to earn its respect. ID has not done this. And until it proposes mechanisms, and tests them, it never will. Such is the way it always works. If your idea is not gaining traction then you've got to do more work. Find more evidence.JVL
March 25, 2018
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Kairosfocus,
Therefore, we have excellent reason to infer design as best explanation of the cell, precisely on the genetic information.
You may think that you do. But convincing the people who make a living studying biology, microbiology, genetics, palaeontology and ecology, you will need more evidence than has been presented to date.
For you to in effect demand that we set decisive evidence aside...
Where has JVL demanded this? Directly or indirectly? I think that you are reading more into JVL’s comments than is there.
In short, the just above shows that you are reduced to selective hyperskeptical dismissal of the evidence we have. Evidence that is strong.
Evidence that has failed to convince the people who actually do biological research.
Such coded information (a form of FSCO/I) has but one observed and plausible source:...
Human beings. An inference based on zero degrees of freedom. A weak inference unless it is bolstered by supporting evidence. Such as proposed mechanisms. Gpuccio has already provided a hypothesis that opens further avenues of research (ie, intelligent intervention was required with the appearance of new classes of proteins). Genomic and protein comparisons allow us to narrow down the time frame when a new protein class first appeared. Search for further evidence there.
We have every epistemic right to infer that we have here a strong sign of design as cause,...
You have the right to make any inference you would like. Nobody is stopping you. Although, I have no idea what an ‘epistemically right’ is.
...and to indicate that it is those who object who need to meet a burden of fulfilling the vera causa standard.
You certainly have the right to claim that it is those you disagree with who have the burden of proof. But, from where I sit, these are the same people who are putting in all of the effort to provide this burden of proof. The ID side, however, do not appear to be doing anything to seek evidence to shore up theirs weak inference.
The matter is not even close on the merits; though the well warranted answer is obviously not welcomed by the new magisterium. KF
Why do you expect to be welcomed? Every new idea had to fight for its place at the table by supporting it with compelling hypotheses, testing, evidence, observations. Evolution wasn’t just ‘welcomed’. The theory had to earn its respect. ID has not done this. And until it proposes mechanisms, and tests them, it never will.Allan Keith
March 25, 2018
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JVL "No designer arounds means there couldn’t have been design." First, why are you so sure there wasn't any? Second, what are the alternatives? To accept Hawking's stupid idea of a universe creating itself out of nothing?! This is not even wrong! It is so blatantly stupid. If we had classical education of the past, this kind of 'reasoning' could never have occurred. Ph.D. actually means "Doctor of Philosophy". What kind of philosophy is that? As somebody rightly noted here, until such time as one actually demonstrates abiogenesis (on the premise that NO explicit or implicit involvement of an experimenter takes place beyond providing initial chemical conditions), design is a scientifically valid hypothesis. They may keep ridiculing it but that is the bare truth they can do nothing about.EugeneS
March 25, 2018
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Actually, if nothing else, animal intelligence is also capable of creating semiotic "Friend or Foe" type recognition systems. Decision making systems can never arise unguidedly, outside of a decision making context. Nature does not care to choose between equilibrium states (min total potential energy states).EugeneS
March 25, 2018
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JVL:
Yes, I did find a list of aspects of evolutionary theory agreed upon by biologists.
Are you daft? I asked for a scientific theory of evolution and once again you FAILed.ET
March 25, 2018
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JVL "As far as I know [Behe has] not been hounded or ostracised by his department or university." You don't get out much do you? Behe's department has famously posted a page on the university's website ostracizing him.Barry Arrington
March 25, 2018
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JVL Living being need food and shelter. They usually defecate in some fashion. They die and leave corpses. So if you find some drawings on a wall in some barren desert but no corpses, tools, defecation etc. you would reject them as design?tribune7
March 25, 2018
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Bob O’H: Just once more: any comments to my #30?gpuccio
March 25, 2018
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JVL: Once a designer is not IMPOSSIBLE, such is possible, and indeed we are designers. In that context, empirically well founded and tested, reliable signs of design should be allowed to speak. Digital, coded, algorithmically functional text (a manifestation of language and of mathematics) is one such sign of design. To amazement, it was found in the heart of the living cell. Therefore, we have excellent reason to infer design as best explanation of the cell, precisely on the genetic information. For you to in effect demand that we set decisive evidence aside is a sign, not of its weakness, but of how entrenched the ideologies are that are clearly closed to such unwelcome evidence. No, I will not set the evidence aside and duly note that you do not have an alternative explanation that would pass the vera causa test -- or you would have given it. In short, the just above shows that you are reduced to selective hyperskeptical dismissal of the evidence we have. Evidence that is strong. Cells use coded digital algorithmic information. This is so central that it is a trace from their origin. Such coded information (a form of FSCO/I) has but one observed and plausible source: intelligently directed configuration, aka design. The other two generic causal factors, singly or jointly, are not plausible sources, as the search challenge on the gamut of the observed cosmos renders feasible search little different from no search given the scope of relevant configuration spaces. We have every epistemic right to infer that we have here a strong sign of design as cause, and to indicate that it is those who object who need to meet a burden of fulfilling the vera causa standard. The sorts of response we see suggest, there is little hope of doing so, doubtless for the same needle in haystack challenge reasons. The matter is not even close on the merits; though the well warranted answer is obviously not welcomed by the new magisterium. KFkairosfocus
March 25, 2018
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#154 So, it appears that even the most elementary problems with your position toward ID (those that are both fundamental and obvious) sail past you without even a quiver of curiosity. That sort of puts your attack on ID into perspective, does it not?Upright BiPed
March 25, 2018
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kairosfocus 1 –> Where have you shown that no designer is POSSIBLE at origin of life, for example? I haven't, I just haven't seen any evidence that one was around. 2 –> This is already a major question-begging, one that drives a chain of onward begged questions. I'm just sayin . . . 3 –> Absent IMPOSSIBILITY of a designer in a relevant setting, traces from the event must be allowed to speak in their own voice. Where the vera causa principle of needing to explain what we did not see on causes shown capable of the like effect also applies. We disagree on genomes, have you got some other evidence a designer was present? 4 –> Such IMPOSSIBILITY implies there is no possible world in which a designer as a being exists at the relevant locus. That requires, in effect, internal incoherence of core characteristics [falsified as WE are designers], or at minimum facts amounting to showing that the state of this world is such that a designer at the point in question is infeasible. I'd just like to see other evidence that a designer with the required capacity was present at the time you think design was implemented. 6 –> Inasmuch as we are addressing cell based life on earth, we cannot eliminate even an earlier race of designers internal to our cosmos. Likewise, brains and the like are COMPUTATIONAL substrates, driven by cause-effect signal processing chains and organisation, not by actual contemplative, rational insight. That is, we face a challenge highlighted by Reppert: I didn't eliminate anything. I merely pointed out that there is no evidence a designer was present at the time. 6 –> In short, brains do not adequately explain responsible rational freedom and mindedness. Something I'm not confident to discuss I'm afraid. 12 –> Outright false, you have no blind watchmaker mechanism capable of coded algorithmically functional text. Well, I think it arose after some basic replicators occurred and started propagating and competing for resources. 14 –> And by q-begging you have tried to lock out what does pass the vera causa test. I'm not begging anything. I'm merely pointing out that if there was no designer present at the pertinent time then no design occurred. I'm not saying there couldn't have been some kind of being around but I've seen no evidence of such a presence.JVL
March 25, 2018
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Trib, yes. KFkairosfocus
March 25, 2018
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kairosfocus Yes, so if a designer is possible, we must be open to evidence of intelligently directed configuration. What time frame are you thinking of? Evidence of intelligently directed configuration is evidence of design as process. It is also evidence of the fundamental method, namely “intelligently directed configuration.” Yes but if people disagree with your design inference then you should. . . . well, I would if it were me . . . look for supporting evidence aside from the contested design. Yes, “intelligently directed configuration.” Hard to detect in this case. tribune7 You mean like objects showing the characteristics of design? I mean physical evidence of their presence and tools and methods. Living being need food and shelter. They usually defecate in some fashion. They die and leave corpses. And if they created objects then they needed tools and raw materials. We might find broken objects, ones spoiled during construction, evidence of design progression. Mantras are signs of dogmas ???? It's not a mantra.JVL
March 25, 2018
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JVL But there would have been a designer around at the time of creation. And we would find evidence of them and their methods. You mean like objects showing the characteristics of design? It can’t have been designed if there was no designer present at the time. Mantras are signs of dogmas :-)tribune7
March 25, 2018
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KF, exactly.tribune7
March 25, 2018
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JVL: >>there would have been a designer around at the time of creation.>> Yes, so if a designer is possible, we must be open to evidence of intelligently directed configuration. >>And we would find evidence of them>> Evidence of intelligently directed configuration is evidence of design as process. It is also evidence of the fundamental method, namely "intelligently directed configuration." Design is consequential on design action, working by art. >> and their methods.>> Yes, "intelligently directed configuration." KFkairosfocus
March 25, 2018
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tribune7 Well, no. If you find ancient artifacts by definition they will be designed and the designer won’t be present. But there would have been a designer around at the time of creation. And we would find evidence of them and their methods. So the question becomes how do we know if something is designed. It can't have been designed if there was no designer present at the time.JVL
March 25, 2018
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Trib, by exploring and validating empirically reliable signs of design. KFkairosfocus
March 25, 2018
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tribune7 By saying it never happened and the universe has no beginning. Would it enhance the credibility of the University of Lethbridge if it put on its website: While we respect Prof. Das’s right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that steady state has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific. I would first want to hear the arguments against the big bang model. If the arguments were unfounded in science then maybe they would want to do that if the person in question was getting a lot of air time. Every investigator of abiogenesis holds by definition that the theory fails at some point. Yes, so what are they criticising? Biogenesis or abiogenesis? In what time frame? After life has already arisen or before? But the heretics must be disavowed, which only happens when you have a dogma. Dr Behe gets a lot of press for his views. His colleagues disagree with him, strongly. If I had been part of the department I'm not sure I would have voted for the statement being published on the website but it's not harassment, he hasn't lost his job. Like I said, as far as I know he is an excellent teacher and abides by department rules regarding topics and he is therefore protected by the personnel procedures as would any other tenured instructor. That's not being disavowed. And I don't think he's complained about the statement either.JVL
March 25, 2018
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JVL And, again, even if you think something was designed but there was no designer present then you must be incorrect. Well, no. If you find ancient artifacts by definition they will be designed and the designer won't be present. OTOH, if you are saying if you think something was designed but it wasn't then, of course, you would be right. So the question becomes how do we know if something is designed.tribune7
March 25, 2018
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JVL, Do you not see how systematically you are begging questions? >>No designer means no design.>> 1 --> Where have you shown that no designer is POSSIBLE at origin of life, for example? 2 --> This is already a major question-begging, one that drives a chain of onward begged questions. 3 --> Absent IMPOSSIBILITY of a designer in a relevant setting, traces from the event must be allowed to speak in their own voice. Where the vera causa principle of needing to explain what we did not see on causes shown capable of the like effect also applies. 4 --> Such IMPOSSIBILITY implies there is no possible world in which a designer as a being exists at the relevant locus. That requires, in effect, internal incoherence of core characteristics [falsified as WE are designers], or at minimum facts amounting to showing that the state of this world is such that a designer at the point in question is infeasible. 5 --> I suspect the latter, via smuggled-in implicit assumption that designers must be biological, cell based creatures with brains or the equivalent. 6 --> Inasmuch as we are addressing cell based life on earth, we cannot eliminate even an earlier race of designers internal to our cosmos. Likewise, brains and the like are COMPUTATIONAL substrates, driven by cause-effect signal processing chains and organisation, not by actual contemplative, rational insight. That is, we face a challenge highlighted by Reppert:
. . . let us suppose that brain state A, which is token identical to the thought that all men are mortal, and brain state B, which is token identical to the thought that Socrates is a man, together cause the belief that Socrates is mortal. It isn’t enough for rational inference that these events be those beliefs, it is also necessary that the causal transaction be in virtue of the content of those thoughts . . . [But] if naturalism is true, then the propositional content is irrelevant to the causal transaction that produces the conclusion, and [so] we do not have a case of rational inference. In rational inference, as Lewis puts it, one thought causes another thought not by being, but by being seen to be, the ground for it. But causal transactions in the brain occur in virtue of the brain’s being in a particular type of state that is relevant to physical causal transactions.
6 --> In short, brains do not adequately explain responsible rational freedom and mindedness. 7 --> Going beyond, the fine tuning of the observed cosmos (the only actually observed cosmos) points beyond itself to design, and the existence of a world requires an underlying necessary being world root. For, circular cause fails, infinite causal-temporal regress is dubious, and utter non-being has no causal power. If a world is, SOMETHING ever was. 8 --> Where, even our mindedness is morally governed, pointing to a required necessary being world root capable of grounding OUGHT, thus bridging the IS-OUGHT gap. There is just one serious candidate, and if you think not, kindly provide a coherent alternative: ______ . That candidate is the inherently good creator God, a necessary and maximally great being, worthy of loyalty and the responsible, reasonable service of doing the good in accord with our evident nature. 9 --> Of course, inference to design of the coded algorithmically functional text in the heart of the cell is not an inference to design of life on earth by God as such. Design is not equal to designer. Identification of a candidate requires onward examination. >> No designer>> 10 --> Repetition of the begged question. >> means there must have been another unguided process or set of processes.>> 11 --> Inference on a begged question, which fails. >>We have observed and recorded those other processes and they seem to do the trick nicely.>> 12 --> Outright false, you have no blind watchmaker mechanism capable of coded algorithmically functional text. >> So, at this point, that is the best explanation.>> 13 --> You do not have a vera causa plausible mechanism. It should not even be on the table. 14 --> And by q-begging you have tried to lock out what does pass the vera causa test. KFkairosfocus
March 25, 2018
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JVL The design inference has not been accepted by a vast majority of biologists. You are appealing to the authority of the crowd here. Again, it is fair to seek to rebut the methods of inference proposed by Dembski or Behe or anyone else. What you can't do though is deny that design exists in nature and has quantifiable characteristics because to do so would be to reject the foundation of scientific inquiry and even reason itself.tribune7
March 25, 2018
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Questioning it in what way? By saying it never happened and the universe has no beginning. Would it enhance the credibility of the University of Lethbridge if it put on its website: While we respect Prof. Das's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that steady state has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific. Really? What are their criticisms? Every investigator of abiogenesis holds by definition that the theory fails at some point. Become evolutionary theory is accepted by a vast, vast majority of working biologists so there’s no need to state that. But the heretics must be disavowed, which only happens when you have a dogma.tribune7
March 25, 2018
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tribune7 If there is design there is evidence of a designer. The design inference has not been accepted by a vast majority of biologists. And, again, even if you think something was designed but there was no designer present then you must be incorrect.JVL
March 25, 2018
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tribune7 I’m just pointing out that Lehigh is holding Darwinian evolution as a dogma not as a science. I disagree. The Big Bang is about as established as a theory as it gets. Would a physics department enhance its credibility if placed on its official website a statement disavowing a colleague who is vocally questioning it? Questioning it in what way? There are some valid criticisms. Or take Pasteur’s Law of Biogensis. This is a principle that has vastly improved living conditions throughout the world. It is, of course, questioned daily by researchers at universities. Should biology departments publicly disavow them? Really? What are their criticisms? ID is solid science which means you are — and should be — free to criticize it and express skepticism to your heart’s content. Most biologists disagree that it is solid science. That's the difference. Darwin, OTOH, has become dogma. Why doesn’t Lehigh just carve above its door “Lehigh Biology Department: We Practice Darwin Here”? Become evolutionary theory is accepted by a vast, vast majority of working biologists so there's no need to state that. Evolutionary theory is not dogma, parts of it are questioned and examined and argued about every day. ID has not been accepted as science; that's why scientists don't want it taught in a science class.JVL
March 25, 2018
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JVL with no separate evidence of a designer being present If there is design there is evidence of a designer.tribune7
March 25, 2018
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EricMN The case for immaterial mind, and the falsity of materialism in general, is fascinating for its implications. But that does not directly translate to science, in my experience. I agree. What does translate to science, though, is the reality of "design" and the understanding that this phenomenon has quantifiable characteristics.tribune7
March 25, 2018
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EMH, fact no 1, through which we access and process all others -- including "quantification and mathematical formalization" -- is that we are self-aware, self-moved conscious unified (and embodied) beings; selves in one word. Any scheme of thought that starts from doubting, dismissing or undermining this (e.g. consciousness is delusion) is instantly, patently self-referentially absurd. Thus, it embeds self-contradiction and destabilises reasoning built on it given the principle ex falso quodlibet. Yes, we may explore quantifications and formalisations on the logic of structure and quantity that help us deepen insights but we must never surrender the self evident first truth of all truths. Where, too, we must realise that scientism is self-refuting and absurd. The methods and sociology of science and the guild of scholars more broadly cannot define the borders of truth or knowledge in such a way that science becomes a gold standard. Even mathematics itself is not and can never be science, being a discipline of abstract reflection on the logic of structure and quantity which in key part is not inductive [modern sense]. KFkairosfocus
March 25, 2018
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Origenes Not for evolution by natural selection as proposed by e.g. Futuyma. If you would be correct and the evidence was indeed overwhelming how could one explain this: I said above that I first I thought his statement was incorrect and then I realised he was strictly talking about adaptations. I already did. However, since you claim that your position is based on empirical data and research results, and since you say you are agreeing with them, I would like you to name at least one specific paper. Can you do that or not? I'm sure you could find one yourself if you did a literature search. Not the whole book … just the relevant passage … of course. I do have other things to do with my day to be honest. Especially given that the arguments are lengthy and build upon each other. I'm sure you could easily find a copy, get one from a library. kairosfocus It is not “giving up” on inductive logic or science to acknowledge and note that the best current explanation of such text is design, with a trillion member observation base behind it. Or, to note that such is backed up by search challenge needle in haystack analysis. I don't think it is the best explanation considering that there is no other evidence of a capable designer being present . . . when exactly do you think design was implemented? If there was no designer present then there must be another explanation. And, as it turns out, it doesn't require an assumption about some cause which has not otherwise been detected. Likewise, the KNOWN deep isolation of thousands of protein fold domains in AA sequence space is directly connected to the instructions in D/RNA, as this is direct evidence of islands of function that are isolated in vast seas of non-function; this is not a case of handily placed stepping stones across a little stream. Nor, hill-climbing up a slope to superior function. The challenge is to span vast seas of non-function and hit on shores of function. Then, to go back across further seas to other islands, without intelligent guidance or incremental warmer/colder oracular feedback. There are no islands of function in biology. All modern forms descended from functioning past forms back to a common ancestor. Now, you may observe “current,” that brings out that inductive reasoning provides empirically based support, not deductive proof, though in many cases it delivers not just high reliability but high confidence. Those who hope to provide some blind mechanism or other capable of creating language (before cell based life much less intelligent life) and codes, algorithms and molecular nanotech executing machinery are welcome to continue. But, they are not welcome to pretend that such mechanisms have passed the Newton vera causa test, or that the search challenge is not utterly adverse, or that there is nothing out there that has passed the vera causa test. Namely, intelligently directed configuration. Like I said, with no separate evidence of a designer being present and capable then it must be the case that the complexity of life was arrived at by undirected processes. Where, the imposition of ideologically loaded a priori evolutionary materialism is indubitably a major case of question-begging multiplied by abuse of authority to lock out what is currently a superior explanation. No designer means no design. No designer means there must have been another unguided process or set of processes. We have observed and recorded those other processes and they seem to do the trick nicely. So, at this point, that is the best explanation.JVL
March 25, 2018
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