Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

An Honest Presentation of the Evidence in our Public Schools

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Let’s face it, the reason Darwinian evolution is so controversial, especially in the public schools, is that it has profound implications concerning who we are, where we came from, and whether or not our lives have ultimate meaning and purpose. This is not the case in chemistry, physics or mathematics. Schoolchildren are not as unperceptive as some people would like to believe, and they pick up on these implications immediately, as my daughter did in the seventh grade.

Darwinian theory has been singled out for special scrutiny in public education not only for this reason, which should be enough, but because the evidence is not nearly as solid as it is in the hard sciences such as those mentioned above.

In a previous thread (https://uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1514) I commented about the suppression of evidence and discussion concerning Darwinian theory in the public schools. I don’t advocate for the teaching of ID in the public schools, and I do agree that evolution has occurred. Things are not now as they once were, so “evolution” has taken place by definition — living things have changed over time. There is no substantive controversy here.

What I object to is an incomplete at best, and dishonest at worst, presentation of the evidence for Darwinian theory in public education. Here are some proposals for how the evidence could be more appropriately presented without “subverting science.” Perhaps commenters could add to the list, and I’d be curious as to why anyone would object to such an approach.

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Present the evidence of changing finch beaks with changing weather conditions, and talk about how some scientists propose that these changes can be extrapolated over long periods of time to explain the origin of completely new and different life forms. But also mention that these changes have been observed to be cyclic, and that some question the validity of extrapolating these minor changes to explain major biological innovation. Ditto for peppered moths.

Point out that bacteria develop antibiotic resistance through the evolutionary process of natural selection, but add that experiments with thousands of generations of bacteria subjected to harsh selection pressures have yet to produce a fundamentally new variety of bacteria.

Observe that scientists propose that the development of embryos suggests the recapitulation of evolutionary history, but point out that the similarities assumed in the past are not what they were once thought to be, and that the earliest stages of development are not the most similar.

Mention all the classic examples of transitional forms in the fossil record, but also mention that some prominent paleontologists (e.g., Gould and Eldredge) have questioned whether or not the overall fossil evidence supports the traditional view of Darwinian gradualism. Offer the incompleteness of the fossil record as a possible explanation, but observe that the seamless gradation of living forms predicted by Darwinian theory has yet to be conclusively established.

Discuss the Cambrian explosion. Offer the standard explanations for this remarkable phenomenon (incompleteness of the fossil record and the likelihood that soft-bodied predecessors would not fossilize), but also mention that some argue that the Cambrian explosion presents a problem for standard evolutionary theory because so many new body plans appear in such a short period of time, and this would seem to contradict the proposal that new body plans should originate in the leaves of the tree of life and not the trunk.

Mention the Miller-Urey experiment and the formation of amino acids by a natural process (after all, it is a classic event in the history of origin-of-life studies), but mention that scientists now believe that conditions on the early earth were not those used in the experiment, and that no concrete explanation has been offered for how those amino acids could have formed biologically meaningful proteins by undirected chemical means.

Talk about various origin-of-life theories and the fact that many scientists are confident that an explanation will eventually be found, but mention that the current state of affairs in origin-of-life studies is many mutually contradictory hypotheses, and that the origin of information in DNA is a particularly difficult problem.

***

I don’t see why such an approach would be unreasonable at all, why students could not understand such a presentation of the evidence, why they would be confused by it, or why it would subvert science. Students could evaluate for themselves whether or not they find the evidence convincing, which should be their prerogative. After all, where they came from and why they are here is a very important matter.

Comments
Joseph wrote: "The bottom line is it DOES matter. IF we are here via intent and purpose we will NEVER find out under the current paradigm. And IF science seeks to explain the reality to our existence then the current model is not only a detriment to science but to all who dwell on this planet. And if science doesn’t care about the reality to our existence then it is as worthless as the corn on my big toe." The bottom line is that, to science, it DOES NOT matter. Science is not equipped to answer philosophical questions as why we exist and how we contemplate that existence. To use science in this way violates the strict requirements of scientific inquiry and cheapens the philosphical endeavor. Under the current scientific paradigm we will not discover the intent and purpose of our existence. Not under ANY scientific paradigm would this happen.KL
August 29, 2006
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Jack Krebs: "More bluntly, why should a student see evolution as contradicting a belief in God?" You still don't get it. The "evolution" taught in the public schools is not the "evolution" mentioned in my essay. It is the blind, purposeless, undirected, goalless Darwinian mechanism, which is why my daughter in the seventh grade asked the teacher, "Does this mean God doesn't exist?" to which she received the reply, "Yes." She figured out the implications immediately. If she were taught that "evolution" is change over time commensurate with transcendent design, which is what theistic evolutionists believe, she would never have asked the question she did. You guys want to have your cake and eat it too: Imply that we are the product of a blind, purposeless, undirected, goalless Darwinian mechanism, but that this in no way contradicts a belief that we are more than that. It doesn't work that way, and most people have figured it out.GilDodgen
August 29, 2006
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KL I don't know where you live but in Texas there exists a body of elected members called the Board of Education. These popularly elected members decide each year what textbooks will be used in Texas public schools. Texas public school teachers teach from these. In principle it is quite democratic. Often the BoE will require changes be made in a text before accepting it for use in Texas schools. Open meeting laws ensure that the decision process is open to the public. Because Texas is both the second largest producer and second largest consumer of K-12 textbooks its decisions have a large influence on other states. How does the textbook selection process work where you live?DaveScot
August 29, 2006
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I find Dave's point baffling. The vast majority of citizens, if asked to identify countries on a map, would get many of them wrong. A substantial fraction of Americans don't know what causes the seasons or the phases of eth moon. Should we give everyone a vote of which country is Pakistan? What is we applied this principle to medical school? I really don't see how you think that the public school science curriculum should be chosen on a "one-man one vote" principle in areas where there is expert knowledge and people who know what young learners need to know in order to master further applications of the subject at hand.Jack Krebs
August 29, 2006
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If I read "The Privileged Planet" correctly "evolutionism" is hardly being singled-out. Also "consensus of the scientific community" is nonsense if the data that led to said consensus cannot be objectively tested nor verified. Which is what we have with evolutionism. Gil is right on this one- Present the data we do have and give the options for that datas' existence. Life exists. Either it came into existence via some blind watchmaker-type process or it was directed to exist via some intelligence. The same goes for the universe. Did the universe create itself? Doubtful. Therefore any and every scenario requires something outside of the universe (and outside of nature) for a first cause. BTW I would tell the students there is a HUGE difference between organic molecules and living organisms. We should also teach them that just throwing (father) time at any issue is NOT how science is conducted. Oops that would mean big trouble for evolutionism. Discuss genetic homeostasis and oscillating variation- ie biologic reality. Tell them flat-out that we DON'T know what makes an organism what it is. And without that knowledge any theory of common descent is pure speculation. And finally we should let them know that the greatest scientists to walk this planet were Creationists. Newton, Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, et al., all knew they were uncovering God's handiwork. Therefore being a Creationist in no way hinders your scientific ability. However if it were up to me- at this point in time I would present the two videos- "Unlocking the Mystery of Life" and "The Privileged Planet" to all students. Then set them free to attend regular classes. If the kids today are anything like I was (30+ years ago) that would be more than enough (for starters). Jack Krebbs: As I said on another thread, if ID-oriented conclusions do eventually persuade the scientific community, then we’ll teach the students that. In due time- that is once this old guard is replaced by forward thinking scientists. Jack Krebbs asks: More bluntly, why should a student see evolution as contradicting a belief in God? Because there isn't any difference between no "god" and a "god" who created via some blind watchmaker-type process. The bottom line is it DOES matter. IF we are here via intent and purpose we will NEVER find out under the current paradigm. And IF science seeks to explain the reality to our existence then the current model is not only a detriment to science but to all who dwell on this planet. And if science doesn't care about the reality to our existence then it is as worthless as the corn on my big toe.Joseph
August 29, 2006
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"Regardless of your desire to assign sole discretion of what gets taught in public school science classes to a majority of scientists that just isn’t how the system works." Actually, that IS how the system works. Historians set the standards for what is taught in history. Mathematicians do so for mathematics. Ideas are not equal, and ideas are not chosen by popular vote. I suspect the American public is lead to believe this; "participate in our poll! Log on to CNN.com and vote whether you think OJ Simpson was guilty or innocent!" As if the general public can make that judgment with no training and without hearing the evidence presented in a court of law. Not everything is determined democratically, and opinions do not carry equal weight. I am a professional science educator, and I teach what the nation's science organizations have deemed appropriate for the age of my students and what is accepted by the scientific community. I do not go off on my own, assuming that I can represent centuries of knowledge and the work of countless scientists on my own. That is the epitome of arrogance, and I am appalled that anyone would think that it consitutes professional behavior. Sorry to rant; sometimes these discussions make me think that education is on the level with washing laundry-everyone can do it and everyone has a valid opinion of how it should be done. Makes me wonder why I trained so long and hard to become a secondary school science teacher. All my years of trying to learn as much as I can about my subject and how kids learn was a total waste of time, since any joe on the street can walk in and take my place.KL
August 29, 2006
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Dear Minlay, I appreciate your thoughtful and respectful comments but you got one thing exactly backwards with this: "I disagree with your implication that the current presentation of the evidence 'subverts science.'" Those of us who raise the challenges that I did are accused of subverting science. What you are basically proposing is that my facts and observations be entered into evidence, but stripped of their implications.GilDodgen
August 29, 2006
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Carlos wrote: "The problem, as I see it, is that science teachers in most high schools and middle schools are not trained as either scientists or as philosophers. And the ID/evolution debate expects of them to be both" As a science teacher I am trained to do and teach science. I am not a philosopher, and am not qualified to teach philosophy, period. If the scientific community does not accept an idea as science, I do not teach it to teenagers. Period. This is not how education is done. I would not express my view of politics in a science class, either. It's unprofessional to step outside of my area of knowledge.KL
August 29, 2006
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Jack Krebs Regardless of your desire to assign sole discretion of what gets taught in public school science classes to a majority of scientists that just isn't how the system works. What you want in this is an aristocracy of sorts. That's repulsive to me and many others who believe that every adult, regardless of who they are, gets an equal say in the matter. One person, one vote. It's a good system. Embrace it.DaveScot
August 29, 2006
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Gil, I applaud your effort to find a common ground on how best to teach this delicate material to our children. I disagree with your implication that the current presentation of the evidence "subverts science", since I feel it accurately represents the consensus of the scientific community. However, I do find your approach reasonable, and I hope both sides can discuss your suggestions honestly. Looking over your suggestions, I like how they attempt to portray the evidence more accurately, but taken as a whole, I think they paint an overly skeptical picture of the state of the evidence. I'd like to go over a few of these to show you what I mean. "Present the evidence of changing finch beaks with changing weather conditions, and talk about how some scientists propose that these changes can be extrapolated over long periods of time to explain the origin of completely new and different life forms. But also mention that these changes have been observed to be cyclic, and that some question the validity of extrapolating these minor changes to explain major biological innovation." I don't think that finches' beaks alone are extrapolated to explain the origin of new and different life forms, and they should not be presented as such (if in fact they are). I think they are a great example of how selection can produce gradual changes in morphology, and I would hope that any section on finch beaks emphasizes that point. Point out that bacteria develop antibiotic resistance through the evolutionary process of natural selection, but add that experiments with thousands of generations of bacteria subjected to harsh selection pressures have yet to produce a fundamentally new variety of bacteria. I would include random mutation in the evolutionary process you describe. I don't see a purpose to mentioning your second clause. I don't think anyone really expects to create a fundamentally new variety of bacteria through the experiments you describe, at least within a reasonable timeframe (like the length of an academic career). Observe that scientists propose that the development of embryos suggests the recapitulation of evolutionary history, but point out that the similarities assumed in the past are not what they were once thought to be, and that the earliest stages of development are not the most similar. I agree that it's important to teach that the concept of "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" was once highly regarded, but is now basically defunct. That organisms generally look more similar at the embryonic stage than they do as adults is undeniable though. Haeckel's drawings should be replaced by actual photos of the embryos at the gastrula stage. Students should also be shown the hourglass model, and the current explanations for it. Mention all the classic examples of transitional forms in the fossil record, but also mention that some prominent paleontologists (e.g., Gould and Eldredge) have questioned whether or not the overall fossil evidence supports the traditional view of Darwinian gradualism. Offer the incompleteness of the fossil record as a possible explanation, but observe that the seamless gradation of living forms predicted by Darwinian theory has yet to be conclusively established. I would also include that Gould and Eldredge favored a model of punctuated equilibrium, and how the fossil record supports either interpretation. I think horse fossils would provide an excellent example. I don't think your second sentence is necessary. Mention the Miller-Urey experiment and the formation of amino acids by a natural process (after all, it is a classic event in the history of origin-of-life studies), but mention that scientists now believe that conditions on the early earth were not those used in the experiment, and that no concrete explanation has been offered for how those amino acids could have formed biologically meaningful proteins by undirected chemical means. The Miller-Urey experiment demonstrated that biomolecules could be formed from molecules present in the early Earth, abolishing the perceived barrier between organic and inorganic molecules. I agree that it's important to note that our current idea of what the conditions of the early Earth were like has changed since Miller's first experiments, but others have found some success replicating Miller's experiments with other environmental conditions, though not to the degree of success Miller found. I would change your last clause to, "While a definitive theory of abiogenesis has yet to emerge, a number of models have been developed, and abiogenesis remains an active area of research". Talk about various origin-of-life theories and the fact that many scientists are confident that an explanation will eventually be found, but mention that the current state of affairs in origin-of-life studies is many mutually contradictory hypotheses, and that the origin of information in DNA is a particularly difficult problem. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to say that "many scientists are confident that an explanation will eventually be found". It's better to just say that it's an active area of research, and leave it at that.minlay
August 29, 2006
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The religious indoctrination in our public schools at the hands of the Darwinists is inexcusable, but I await the day that ID is allowed to be discussed without being pinned as a violation of the establishment clause. It may or may not be science, but it sure as hell isn't religious instruction. The day will come.crandaddy
August 29, 2006
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Gil concludes by writing, "Students could evaluate for themselves whether or not they find the evidence convincing, which should be their prerogative. After all, where they came from and why they are here is a very important matter." 1. There is no way a beginning biology class could present the evidence at a depth that would allow high school students to reasonably "evaluate for themselves" whether the issues mentioned by Gil are significant challenges to mainstream scientific conclusions. In fact the problem with a list such as Gil proposes (mostly taken from Wells) is that all the items are presented at a shallow enough level that it can be made to look like someone could "evaluate for themselves" after just a small amount of study. It would be much more reasonable for those who think these issues are significant to present the evidence to the scientific community and ask them to evaluate for themselves. As I said on another thread, if ID-oriented conclusions do eventually persuade the scientific community, then we'll teach the students that. 2. But the bigger problem here is contained in the second sentence in the quote above: "After all, where they came from and why they are here is a very important matter." Despite the story Gil told about his daughter on another thread, the question of the evolution of species is separate form the religious question of "where we came from" and where we are going. Millions of Christians belief that the theory of evolution, as the accepted and well-established theory of how species have changed over time, does not conflict with their religious beliefs about where they came from and where they're going; and of course millions (billions) of people of other religious likewise have no problems with evolution even though they have different beliefs than Christians about these issue of coming and going. So what is Gil trying to say when he lists these objects and ties them to religious belief? More bluntly, why should a student see evolution as contradicting a belief in God?Jack Krebs
August 29, 2006
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stu Evolution is an inference drawn primarily from the fossil record. It is not strictly a fact. I am hesitant to advocate teaching anything as fact that can't be directly observed. Chickens hatch from chicken eggs is a fact. We can observe it. Chickens descend from ancestors that were not chickens is not something we can observe. It's an inference. The difference between facts and inferences should not be disregarded.DaveScot
August 29, 2006
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Two of the numbers in my post just above got turned into smilies. They should both be the number eight. Stu Harris www.theidbookstore.comStuartHarris
August 29, 2006
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Gil, Here, in outline, is what I want my kids to be taught in their public school biology class regarding evolution: 1. Life has been on the planet about 4 billion years. “Evolution” is the observed fact that species have come into existence over that time, and that most species that have existed have become extinct. 2. As such, evolution is not a theory. It is an observed fact that needs a theory to explain it. 3. Vitalism, Lamarckism and many other hypotheses were given during and well before the 19th century in an effort to explain the observed fact of evolution. They were all eventually discounted. 4. The process of natural selection is an observed fact. Mutation and variation in species are observed facts in nature. 5. Charles Darwin proposed that natural selection acting on mutation and variation completely explains the observed fact of evolution. He used the fossil record and slightly differing traits among existing species as evidence. In the later 19th century and early 20th century this was generally accepted as the valid theory to explain evolution. 6. During that period, biology, information theory, automata theory, and biochemistry were either very primitive or unknown. Organisms were primarily understood at their gross anatomical level. 7. In the later half of the 20th century and the early part of the current century, the understanding of these new sciences has unveiled much of the basic unit components of life, and how those components are coded for, constructed, and reproduced. 8. In light of this newer science, some scientists, mathematicians, and information theorists have posed challenges to the Darwinian Theory as a valid and complete explanation of the fact of evolution. The concepts of probability, irreducible complexity, specified complexity, fossil evidence and others are used in their arguments. 9. As an extension of their negative arguments against the Darwinian Theory, some have proposed that these concepts show that intelligence and telic goals may be at work in evolution. The character or identity of any proposed intelligence is outside the scope of a natural science class, but may be addressed in social science classes or student groups. Now, educational step 1) will be a non-starter for young earth creationists or any who believe that all creatures that ever existed were created de novo at the same time. Step 2) will pose problems for some because I’m essentially saying that there is no such thing as “The Theory of Evolution”. Evolution is a fact that needs explaining, a theory is what will explain it. That was the view of natural history in the early 19th century. For example, there is no “Stellar Red Shift Theory”. The Big Bang Theory is proposed to explain the observed fact of stellar red shift. But steps 3) through 7) should pose no objections to anybody who gets to them. Right? Dedicated materialists will balk at 8) while some Darwinists might accept it. But, of course the final point, 9), however carefully and briefly made is what the real problem is about. Right? In any public educational program parents ought to be allowed to exclude their children from programs that conflict with their beliefs or values. Young earth creationists could opt to pull their kids from the whole course, strict materialists could pull theirs from steps 8) and 9), thoughtful Darwinists could pull them from just step 9). I’d want my two kids to have the full meal deal. Stu Harris www.theidbookstore.comStuartHarris
August 29, 2006
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Carlos Name some of these many plausible abiogenesis scenarios. I don't believe there is a single plausible scenario to say nothing of many plausible scenarios.DaveScot
August 29, 2006
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trrll Evolution via random mutation & natural selection is singled out because it is a dogmatic belief lacking empirical support. Gravitation, continental drift, quantum mechanics, are not in question because they are well supported by empirical evidence. There's nothing sinister afoot. The Darwinian evolutionary narrative is simply lacking sufficient credible evidence to give it the exclusivity enjoyed by graviation, continental drift, quantum mechanics, and etcetera.DaveScot
August 29, 2006
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"(b) the Cambrian explosion likewise does not pose a serious challenge to the neo-Darwinian story, esp. if that story is supplemented with evo-devo. (Would we then have to talk about “the postmodern synthesis”? I hope not!)" I don't think so. You run into same prb dumping all of that change onto evo-devo instead of just evo :)jpark320
August 29, 2006
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Trll -- agree. If we had to teach every single version of quantum mechanics, it would be a nightmare.Carlos
August 29, 2006
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I take some issue with some of the points mentioned in Gil's post. But I'll leave that aside, for now. The problem, as I see it, is that science teachers in most high schools and middle schools are not trained as either scientists or as philosophers. And the ID/evolution debate expects of them to be both -- in order to be able to present, in a form that adolescent minds can grasp, problems such as the difference between science and non-science, the different forms that science can take, what makes something count as a good explanation, the role of inference to the unobserved in scientific theorizing, and the under-determination problem. Now, some quibbles -- regarding which I'm sure others will have more to say than I will: (a) punctuated equilibrium may conflict with what Darwin actually said ("gradualism"), but it does not conflict with the Modern Synthesis -- as G & E have said, the contention is over the tempo of evolutionary change, not its mechanism; (b) the Cambrian explosion likewise does not pose a serious challenge to the neo-Darwinian story, esp. if that story is supplemented with evo-devo. (Would we then have to talk about "the postmodern synthesis"? I hope not!) (c) the point made about the Urey-Miller experiment is a good one, but I'm not sure it passes the "so what?" test -- I still think that the central problem in abiogenesis research is not that there are no plausible scenarios, but that there are too many, with no current way of determining which of them was actually used (if any of them were). This could be an excellent way to teach kids that science is an on-going process, not a set of doctrines -- and it's a process they can be a part of. That's what got me hooked, after all. (d) the $64,000 question is, "are microevolutionary processes necessary and sufficient to explain macroevolutionary patterns?" The neo-Darwinian story is that they are; if not, then something besides random mutation and natural selection would be required. I think it would be enough to show how important this question is, and that even neo-Darwinian scientists have heated and loud debates among themselves about how, exactly, microevolutionary processes explain macroevolutionary patterns. The most important thing in science education is to stress that science does not and cannot provide any final or absolute explanations. But that does not mean that there are not better and worse explanations, as judged by the light of presently available evidence.Carlos
August 29, 2006
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Perhaps the most perceptive point made by Judge Jones in his decision is that to single a particular scientific topic out for special "critical analysis" of the evidence without doing the same for other established theories (e.g. gravitation, quantum theory, continental drift) conveys a false impression of the status of natural selection in the scientific community. I'm all for critical analysis, but it would have to be applied fairly, without singling out a particular topic for religious or philosophical reasons. This would mean enormously expanding the time devoted to science in the public schools. So any such proposal needs to be accompanied by a discussion of which nonscientific topics are to be cut to make room for elementary or secondary students to engage in a level of scientific critical analysis that is currently reserved for college or graduate school. Civics? History? Mathematics? English? Math? Gym? (I'll vote for that one)trrll
August 29, 2006
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Nice one, Gil. After all, science should be about balancing the evidence for and against. Sadly when it comes to origins and evolution, it's more like a turf war.rabbite_uk
August 29, 2006
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The Miller-Urey experiment was a failure on more then one level. The simulated earth atmosphere they used included methane and ammonia, ammonia being needed to produce amino acids. What was discovered later was that the atmophere was very different with a lot of nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water vapor. Subsequent tests using the revised estimation of earth's early atmosphere have failed in producing the necessary amino acids. Also the amino acids produced by Miller-Urey would have perished immediately if they hadn't used a "cold trap" mechanism which separated the amino acids from the environment in which they were produced. So the experiment did prove somethings, just not what they were hoping for. Later Harold Urey said "All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, the more we feel it is too complex to have evolved anywhere. We all believe as an article of faith that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did." In the science journal Earth this was published in 1998: "Geologists now think that the primordial atmosphere consisted mainly of carbon dioxide and nitrogen, gases that are less reactive than those used in the 1953 experiment. And even if Miller's atmosphere could have existed, how do you get simple molecules such as amino acids to go through the necessary chemical changes that will convert them into more complicated compounds, or polymers, such as proteins? Miller himself throws up his hands at that part of the puzzle. "It's a problem," he sighs with exasperation. "How do you make polymers? That's not so easy."mentok
August 29, 2006
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How about a brief discussion on the first day of science class about the definition of science and the various assumptions that this definition requires?russ
August 29, 2006
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How can you suggest this Gil. If you give kids any reason to question "Evolution" then the free world as we know it will fall, people will start marrying their sisters and mobs will form in the streets seeking to burn down the observartory. You don't want that happening do you ? Do YOU !!! Excellent post by the way, seems like an entirely reasonable set of suggestions that I would whole heartedly support.jwrennie
August 29, 2006
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