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Another Icon of “Bad Design” Bites the Dust

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Darwinists often cite the inverted retina (backward wiring) of the vertebrate eye as a prime example of bad design and therefore as evidence that no right-thinking designer would have done things that way. On the ID side, it’s been clear that the Darwinists’ received wisdom here is not nearly so clear cut and that there can be good functional reasons for an inverted retina (see Michael Denton on this subject here).

A recent article in PNAS now indicates that living optical fibers create a clear passage for light to the light-sensitive cells at the back of the eye. Concerning his research in this area, Andreas Reichenbach remarks, “Nature is so clever. This means there is enough room in the eye for all the neurons and synapses and so on, but still the Müller cells can capture and transmit as much light as possible.” Go here for a summary of the research as well as for a reference to the relevant PNAS article.

Question: Is this result more consistent with Darwinian or ID assumptions? Darwinists have been constantly saying that a competent designer wouldn’t have wired our retinas the “wrong” way. Well, now we find inside the eye optic fibers that transmit 100% through the layers of “bad” stuff in front of the cones and rods. Perhaps we need is some congressional research funds earmarked to tackle all these instance of “bad design” and show that they actually constitute great design — things to inspire engineers to build better devices!

Comments
Is not the so-called “bad design” argument itself an argument from design? The irony of all of these arguments is that they cannot be made without at least an intuitive (or maybe more) idea of what constitutes “good design” in the first place.SteveB
May 2, 2007
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Borne said, "…this is why I say that if the design were not real Dawkins would never have had to invent "designoids" -> Counterfeit implies true coin." The eye is a marvel of engineering, contravenes the illogic of Occam's Razor, and makes Richard Dawkins scant level of design and engineering awareness laughable. With better and better methods of analysis, those design features are becoming more apparent. And yet, even without the knowledge we have thus far uncovered, man has marveled over the eye from the beginnings of his ability to do critical analysis. Even Darwin lost a lot of sleep over it. So why do mainstream scientists still cling to the naturalistic approach to design and innovation? Vested interest, I suppose. But as science progresses, evidence of purposeful design in nature will prevail, and eventually preempt Darwinian thought. In an attempt to help to explain the evolution of the vertebrate eye, Nilsson and Pelger conducted a study in 1994, which is partially summarized as:
"Theoretical considerations of eye design allow us to find routes along which the optical structures of eyes may have evolved. If selection constantly favours an increase in the amount of detectable spatial information, a light-sensitive patch will gradually turn into a focused lens eye through continuous small improvements of design. An upper limit for the number of generations required for the complete transformation can be calculated with a minimum of assumptions. Even with a consistently pessimistic approach the time required becomes amazingly short: only a few hundred thousand years."
Here is the study: http://www.jodkowski.pl/kk/DENilsson001.html The study primarily addresses how a lens might form over a patch of light sensitive cells, and alleges a computer simulation of the process. The study was hailed by many as ground braking, and even proof of eye evolution (Richard Dawkins, "Where'd you Get Those Peepers" http://tinyurl.com/3kzrq). My belief is that the vertebrate eye in its many forms never formed itself by successive favorable mutations, and to claim as the study does that it happened in a relatively short time of "a few hundred thousand years", and in multiple instances, is a reality breach. Want to know more about 'eye engineering'? http://webvision.med.utah.edu/sretina.html#overview So in answer to the question, "Is this result more consistent with Darwinian or ID assumptions?", I'd say the answer is clear.LeeBowman
May 2, 2007
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“Nature is so clever." = Nature is so intelligent. So what exactly IS nature?
1. The material world and its phenomena. 2. The forces and processes that produce and control all the phenomena of the material world: the laws of nature. 3. The world of living things and the outdoors 4. A primitive state of existence, untouched and uninfluenced by civilization or artificiality
But we all know nature has no intrinsic intelligence or mind. Therefore to say that nature is clever is tantamount to saying that; 1. We really do believe nature is itself intelligent - a position only George Lucas and wannabe Jedis would hold - or, 2. There really is an intelligent power behind what we call nature. Only mind can be "clever". Q: So why is it so ruddy hard for these guys to admit it's designed!? A: They have a pre-commitment to materialism. Again, this is why I say that if the design were not real Dawkins would never have had to invent "designoids" --> Counterfeit implies true coin.Borne
May 2, 2007
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Oh well, get the darwin propaganda machine spinning...
I believe the stock phrase is "sheds new light on evolution". Translation: "WTF?!" For more on this and other instances of "bad design", see here.sagebrush gardener
May 2, 2007
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OK, so the human eye is clever and bungled. Bungled but in a clever sort of way. Wait, isolated pockets of cleverness but put together in a bungled way, yea, that's it. Well, OK, just because we *haven't* reconciled bungledness with cleverness doesn't mean we *can't*. Scientists are working on it.landru
May 2, 2007
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It is interesting to note that whenever confronted with conclusive evidence for design, materialist will always point to some supposed design flaw for defence and not address the conclusive evidence that was presented for design at all. Pure science follows the evidence wherever the evidence may lead no matter if it is distastful to personal preferences!bornagain77
May 2, 2007
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Not a good time for militant darwinism/materialism. Oh well, get the darwin propaganda machine spinning and churn out some articles at PT claiming how this is old news and darwin predicted it all along. Call us IDiots and hope the public doesn't notice as another icon falls. How many is that for ID now? At least two big ones right? "Junk" DNA and now the eye?shaner74
May 2, 2007
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"Andreas Reichenbach remarks, 'Nature is so clever.'" Merriam Webster (m-w.comremarks: "CLEVER"... SYNONYM see in addition INTELLIGENT" The Wikipedia guys need to call the Dictionary guys to get this fixed.russ
May 2, 2007
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a little OT: Not Bad Design, but "unique" design. And another nail in the coffin of darwins tree, bush, whatever... "“The assumption(least this is honest) has always been that bats evolved from some sort of flying squirrel-type animals,” says Swartz. “Gliding has evolved in mammals seven times. That tells us that it's really easy(uhuh, who says Darwinians don't have faith?) for an animal with skin to evolve into a glider(so easy I fly every night, Batman! queue music), but going from a square gliding wing to a long, skinny flapping wing has not happened seven times. It might have happened once. And now it doesn't look like bats have any relationship to these gliding things.”" Haha, "things" yeah, they're thingies alrighty, off to my batcave! next thingy we'll see is the penguin in a tux, doh! http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2006-07/06-082.html this reality check hattip by creationontheweb.com. The military wants to develop new designs in flight based on these bat thingies. go figure, DARPA again.Michaels7
May 2, 2007
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Bad design arguments are the worst thing going. In the spirit of gloating and piling on. Did anybody catch this April 23rd headline, "Junk' DNA now looks like powerful regulator, researcher finds"? http://www.physorg.com/news96567418.html Oh, ya.Jehu
May 2, 2007
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I was going to add to the other discussion on C3 vs C4 that from an ID perspective we should not look at one as inefficient, but peer thru the looking glass of Design. Therefore a perspective on respiration as a requirement instead of an inefficiency; for example, fruit bearing trees emitting odors and chemicals against insects or even to kill fungi, etc. Because C4 is not limited to only tropical climates, it exist in the artic. We should not limit ourselves to only thinking about inefficiency of C3 because a materialist says so. There may be hidden purpose to those with scales on their eyes, but not those who see and ask. We should never fall into the "vestigial" bottom up, worthless tonsils and appendages approach of materialist evolutionist who just toss their hands up in the air and claim, "it must be vestigial leftovers" of a dead, meaningless and random world. And whom then make the decision to not fund anymore reseach into alternative explanations. Clearly, they've been wrong in the past and continue to be with "JunkDNA", etc. And this bears repeating by Dr. Dembski... "Perhaps we need ()some congressional research funds earmarked to tackle all these instance of “bad design” and show that they actually constitute great design — things to inspire engineers to build better devices!" Have faith. Whenever materialist evolutionist say vestigial, inefficient, bad design. That is exactly where ID needs to look and gather funding. Becaue it is where those who believe in meaningless existence overlook treasures. I remember reading last year, ahm, from a creation, ahmm, cough, a creationist site that the eye is well designed for multiple purposes of which people like Dawkins overlooked. One being blood flow as a coolent. Interesting tidbit from that cough, creation, cough website.... "The choroid takes 85% of the ocular blood flow, and the choroid is remarkable for having the highest blood flow per gram of tissue of all tissues in the body, four times greater even than that of the renal (kidney) cortex. The authors also noted that little oxygen is extracted from blood flowing through the choroid." But why is this important? I think if we look deeper, there's more here than, ahm, meets the eye. "It follows that for light to reach the photoreceptors, both RPE and choroid have to be located external to the neurosensory retina; hence we can conclude that there are sound reasons for the inverted configuration of the human and vertebrate retina." "First published: Technical Journal 13(1):37–44 April 1999" The articles hits on another interesting conclusion, "Moreover, the foveolar cones differ from those elsewhere in being taller, more slender, perfectly straight and accurately oriented to be axial with respect to incident light, for maximal VA and sensitivity. In this area, blood vessels are absent and the retina is much thinner, being reduced to only photoreceptors (cones) with minimal supporting tissue. The inner neural elements of the neurosensory retina are displaced from the foveola radially to allow unimpeded access of light and elimination of what little scattering of light occurs elsewhere (Figure 5)." There is more along with diagrams. Hmmm, April 1999. Go figure, "...dumb, wicked" people. http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1683/ Not that a "creationist, opthalmologist" would ever have a clue.Michaels7
May 2, 2007
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I have to say, things like this make the ID fight interesting. I think the greater point is, whether or not you can 'prove' ID in the lab (I'm skeptical about it philosophically, but I don't have the expertise to evaluate ID's technical arguments), this does show that you can walk into a lab with a philosophical presupposition of ID and achieve quite some interesting results. Approaching the sciences from the perspective of intentional design, I would argue, is entirely valid.nullasalus
May 2, 2007
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I think this should be a clarion call for anyone interested in doing research into intelligently designed systems. For years, folks have pointed to the retina as an example of something that was totally messed up and, therefore, not designed. One has to ask how many other systems there might be that, on the surface, appear to be a bit screwy but, upon further inspection, prove to be rather engeniously designed Let the games begin... The ScubaredneckThe Scubaredneck
May 1, 2007
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