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Are Some of Our Opponents in the Grip of a “Domineering Parasitical Ideology”?

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[It] is now obvious that the root is we are dealing with a domineering parasitical ideology in the course of destroying its host; through its inherent undermining of responsible rational freedom, the foundation of a sound life of the mind. Immediately, science, science education, the media and policy are being eaten out from within.

KF

Indeed.  The immediate context of KF’s observation is the seeming inability of the Darwinists to understand plain English over the past few days.  Allow me to establish some context.  In a post over at his Sandwalk blog Larry Moran quoted me when I wrote:

For years Darwinists touted “junk DNA” as not just any evidence but powerful, practically irrefutable evidence for the Darwinian hypothesis. ID proponents disagreed and argued that the evidence would ultimately demonstrate function.  Not only did both hypotheses make testable predictions, the Darwinist prediction turned out to be false and the ID prediction turned out to be confirmed.

He then wrote:

But, as most Sandwalk readers know, nobody predicted junk DNA, certainly not Darwinists.

I then provided quotations from two famous Darwinists (Collins and Coyne) using the very word “prediction”:

Darwin’s theory predicts that mutations that do not affect function, (namely, those located in “junk DNA” ) will accumulate steadily over time. Mutations in the coding region of genes, however, are expected to be observed less frequently, and only a rare such event will provide a selective advantage and be retained during the evolutionary process.  That is exactly what is observed.

 

From this we can make a prediction. We expect to find, in the genomes of many species, silenced, or ‘dead,’ genes: genes that once were useful but re no longer intact or expressed.

I also linked to Casey Luskin’s excellent article an ENV showing several more such statements.  There cannot be the slightest doubt that many famous Darwinists said the theory predicts junk DNA.

“But those statements cannot possibly be predictions, because they came after junk DNA was discovered,” the Darwinists shout.  One in particular (lutesuite) has started beating a drum calling for a retraction of my claim.  We have two choices here:

  1. Agree with Moran and lutesuite. But this would require us to believe Collins and Coyne are too stupid to understand what the word “prediction” means.
  1. Disagree with Moran and lutesuite. This would require us to believe that Collins and Coyne were using the word “prediction” in a different sense than “to forecast in advance.”

I vote for (2).  Is there a sense of the word “prediction” that means something other than “to forecast in advance”?  It turns out there is.  Collins and Coyne are not stupid.  Instead, they are engaging in the commonplace act of using the term “prediction” in the sense of “retrodiction” or “postdiction”.  What is that?  Wikipedia explains:

Retrodiction (or postdiction . . .) is the act of making a “prediction” about the past.

My dictionary agrees.

There you have it.  The mystery is solved.  Collins and Coyne are not so stupid that they don’t know the meaning of the word “prediction.”  Moran and lutesuite are simply wrong when they suggest they are.  A prediction does not have to be temporally prior to that which is predicted if the word is used in the sense of a retrodiction.

What does all of this have to do with KF’s observation?  Everything.  Sadly, both Moran and lutesuite are hosting a domineering parasitical ideology that is undermining their responsible rational freedom and destroying their capacity to think clearly.

Consider this.  It really is the case that for Moran and lutesuite to be correct, it must also be the case that two of the most famous scientists in the world are so staggeringly stupid that they don’t know what the word “predict” means.  I do not always agree with Collins and Coyne, but it really is a little much for Moran and lutesuite to imply they are imbeciles.

The only rational conclusion is that Moran and lutesuite are wrong, and not only are they wrong, they are wrong about a very simple matter that would take only two seconds of rational thought to sort out.

But two seconds is a long time, and rational thought is hard when one is in the grip of a domineering parasitical ideology.

Comments
@Box #208 All of your questions have answers but this isn't the place for me to teach you a course on basic biochemistry followed by a course on developmental biology. What I don't understand is your apparent conviction that you have come up with challenging questions that the experts just can't answer. Where does such hubris come from when your questions reveal that you don't know anything about the subject?Larry Moran
November 13, 2015
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@Dionisio "You have not commented on my posts @220 & @221 in this thread:" You posted on the wrong thread by mistake, the last post so far, with my post now, is 212Jack Jones
November 13, 2015
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LoL! @ Larry Moran- he fell for one of the newest tricks in the evo-book:
Because not all genes are expressed all the time.
It ain't the genes, it's when and how they are expressed! Total nonsense and as yet untested- well because no one knows how to test it. Genes and DNA influence and control development but they do not determine what will develop. As Dr Denton once wrote in "Dissent from Darwin" (2004):
To understand the challenge to the “superwatch” model by the erosion of the gene-centric view of nature, it is necessary to recall August Weismann’s seminal insight more than a century ago regarding the need for genetic determinants to specify organic form. As Weismann saw so clearly, in order to account for the unerring transmission through time with precise reduplication, for each generation of “complex contingent assemblages of matter” (superwatches), it is necessary to propose the existence of stable abstract genetic blueprints or programs in the genes- he called them “determinants”- sequestered safely in the germ plasm, away from the ever varying and destabilizing influences of the extra-genetic environment. Such carefully isolated determinants would theoretically be capable of reliably transmitting contingent order through time and specifying it reliably each generation. Thus, the modern “gene-centric” view of life was born, and with it the heroic twentieth century effort to identify Weismann’s determinants, supposed to be capable of reliably specifying in precise detail all the contingent order of the phenotype. Weismann was correct in this: the contingent view of form and indeed the entire mechanistic conception of life- the superwatch model- is critically dependent on showing that all or at least the vast majority of organic form is specified in precise detail in the genes. Yet by the late 1980s it was becoming obvious to most genetic researchers, including myself, since my own main research interest in the ‘80s and ‘90s was human genetics, that the heroic effort to find information specifying life’s order in the genes had failed. There was no longer the slightest justification for believing there exists anything in the genome remotely resembling a program capable of specifying in detail all the complex order of the phenotype. The emerging picture made it increasingly difficult to see genes as Weismann’s “unambiguous bearers of information” or view them as the sole source of the durability and stability of organic form. It is true that genes influence every aspect of development, but influencing something is not the same as determining it. Only a small fraction of all known genes, such as the developmental fate switching genes, can be imputed to have any sort of directing or controlling influence on form generation. From being “isolated directors” of a one-way game of life, genes are now considered to be interactive players in a dynamic two-way dance of almost unfathomable complexity, as described by Keller in The Century of The Gene
Larry, that dog you are counting on doesn't hunt.Virgil Cain
November 13, 2015
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bFast: However, what the rock record shows is stasis, stasis, stasis, sudden change, stasis, stasis. You're claiming the fossil record doesn't show change, which clearly is not the case. It's stasis, stasis, stasis, change, stasis, stasis, change, stasis, stasis, stasis, change, extinction, change, change, change, stasis, change ...Zachriel
November 13, 2015
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Professor Moran I see you active in other discussion threads, but do you still want to continue our chatting? You have not commented on my posts @220 & @221 in this thread:Dionisio
November 13, 2015
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Larry Moran:
Talbott: 1. If genes determine the form and substance of the organism, how is it that such radically different cellular architectures result from the same genes?
Because not all genes are expressed all the time.
So what controls gene expression? And what controls whatever controls gene expression And what controls that? (and so forth)
Larry Moran:
Talbott: 2. What directs genes to produce the intricately sculpted and differentiated form of a complex organism …
In more complex organisms, development and differentiation is determined by the timing of differential gene expression during embryogenesis.
How do you explain that the timing in many cells of a complex organism, during embryogenesis, work in concert?
Larry Moran: The whole pathway is determined by transcription factors and other regulatory molecules that are deposited in the gametes during their formation.
Those “transcription factors and other regulatory molecules” are the same in each cell during embryogenesis. How do you explain that the cells continue to work in concert?
Larry Moran: Again, we have the data, we know the molecules, we understand the process and the timing. There are no major mysteries.
You have a weird sense of humor.
Larry Moran:
Talbott: 3. … and how can this directing agency be governed by the very genes that it directs?
Easy. Genes make transcription factors and other regulatory molecules and those molecules control gene expression.
So, we start off with one cell and after a few divisions genes in distinct cells start regulating themselves (differently) by means of transcription factors and other regulatory molecules. How do you explain that those cells work in concert? From whence the unifying power?Box
November 13, 2015
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@205 "However, what the rock record shows is stasis, stasis, stasis, sudden change, stasis, stasis. That’s not what Darwinism predicts, and its not what neutral theory predicts." The butterfly and moth collectors do not seem to care about being consistent my friend.Jack Jones
November 13, 2015
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Moran quoting Lynch: (...) organisms are far more than the sum of their parts, (...)
Those kind of sentences by naturalists are best ignored. I have come to learn how utterly meaningless they are. Here
"organisms are FAR MORE then the sum of their parts"
probably means
"organisms are exactly NOTHING OVER AND BEYOND their (material) parts."
Box
November 13, 2015
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"Thank you, the problem is that, Punctuated equilibrium is not a restatement of the fossil record but it is an after the fact explanation to explain the discontinuity away." I would say that punctuated equilibrium is a description of the problem. I put virtually no weight on explanations that attempt to explain the phenomenon. However, what the rock record shows is stasis, stasis, stasis, sudden change, stasis, stasis. That's not what Darwinism predicts, and its not what neutral theory predicts.bFast
November 13, 2015
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Box asks me to answer three questions from Talbot.
Are we discussing basic stuff? If it is so “basic”, why don’t you directly address the following three questions by Talbott:
If genes determine the form and substance of the organism, how is it that such radically different cellular architectures result from the same genes? What directs genes to produce the intricately sculpted and differentiated form of a complex organism, and how can this directing agency be governed by the very genes that it directs?
1. If genes determine the form and substance of the organism, how is it that such radically different cellular architectures result from the same genes? Because not all genes are expressed all the time. The best understood examples in eukaryotes are development and differentiation in the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster, the yeast Saccharomyces cerivisiae, and the nematode Caenorhabditis elegans. This understanding is based on very detailed work with bacteriophage lambda and sporulation in Bacillus subtilis. We are very confident about this. So much so that it has now become routine to stimulate differentiation in stem cells to produce a variety of very different tissues from the same original cell line. 2. What directs genes to produce the intricately sculpted and differentiated form of a complex organism ... The initial trigger in some species is environmental. Yeast cells and B. subtilis cells, for example, can be induced to form spores—very different types of cells—by lack of food in the environment. We know how this works. It's the same process that determines the genetic switch in bacteriophage lambda and the regulation of the lac operon in E. coli. In more complex organisms, development and differentiation is determined by the timing of differential gene expression during embryogenesis. We have very well understood examples of how this works in fruit flies and nematodes and lots of evidence to show that the same processes operate in humans and mice. The whole pathway is determined by transcription factors and other regulatory molecules that are deposited in the gametes during their formation. Again, we have the data, we know the molecules, we understand the process and the timing. There are no major mysteries. 3. ... and how can this directing agency be governed by the very genes that it directs? Easy. Genes make transcription factors and other regulatory molecules and those molecules control gene expression. That's why we can reprogram cells by injecting them with different transcription factors. During development the timing is the key. First you make one set of transcription factors from one set of genes then they turn on a second set of genes that make new transcription factors that turn on a third set of genes etc. The initial stimulus is in the egg cell in animals and that, in turn, is due to timing during oogenesis. There are university courses you can take to understand all this stuff. We have them in my school. I used to teach some of them. Contact me if you want to learn more. HTH HANDLarry Moran
November 13, 2015
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bFastNovember 13, 2015 at 10:50 am "Jack Jones, love your quote. I have always held Gould in high regard. He seemed determined to follow the evidence where it leads. The evidence from the fossil record is clear — punctuated equilibrium. So what does Coyne have against this evidence? It doesn’t fit the theory! So if evidence and theory are at odds, who wins? Why, theory, of course." Thank you, the problem is that, Punctuated equilibrium is not a restatement of the fossil record but it is an after the fact explanation to explain the discontinuity away. I could imagine somebody like Moran trying to mislead people that they are one and the same thing though, he seems a slippery fellow to me. I had a book by Niles Eldredge some years ago, "reinventing darwin" He talked about evolution breaking out when ecosystems are disrupted, after a few generations then ecosystems would have to be disrupted for the rapid evolution of new life forms. But do catastrophic events such as asteroid collisions etc happen so often? It is silly of course, and if ecosystems were disrupted that often then that is not providing a mechanism for evolutionary change, if it created the opportunity then that is not creating a mechanism for evolution to occur.Jack Jones
November 13, 2015
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Larry:
BTW, how many ID proponents have read Futuyma’s textbook on “Evolution”? Cover to cover?
I tried but he spews so many bald declarations it was difficult to stomach. I find it much better sticking to biology textbooks that teach what we actually know- the real facts of biology.Virgil Cain
November 13, 2015
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Yes, natural selection is a process of elimination. The less fit tend to get eliminated. However what is fit can and does, change. That is one reason why Dawkins' cumulative selection is a useless concept. Even YECs don't have an issue with that concept of natural selection. The problem arises when evos take that concept and try to sell the idea it can produce adaptations. Then when they see that isn't working they throw in contingent serendipity in the form of "constructive neutral nonsense". Yeah two proteins diffusing through the cell just happen to meet and just happen to connect because they just happened to have complementary shapes. The Italian biologists call it the "badda-bing, badda-boom" mechanism. Others call it the "abra-cadabra" mechanism.Virgil Cain
November 13, 2015
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Andre asks,
I wonder has Prof Moran actually read Darwin’s doubt yet? Cover to cover?
Yes. Which parts do you not understand? I'll do my best to explain them to you. BTW, how many ID proponents have read Futuyma's textbook on "Evolution"? Cover to cover? And if you're really and truly interested in the Cambrian explosion then you surely must have read "The Cambrian Explosion: The Construction of Animal Biodiversity" by Erwin Douglas and Valentine James from cover to cover. Right? I can help you understand that book as well.Larry Moran
November 13, 2015
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Larry Moran
Box: For me, Steve Talbott has decisively debunked Lynch’s (and Moran’s) gene-centric view by means of simple crystal clear logic. [post #191]
He follows up that ridiculous statement with some information about gene regulation. Box, are you serious?
Sure.
Larry Moran: Do you actually believe that Michael Lynch and I are completely ignorant about basic biochemistry and molecular biology?
Are we discussing basic stuff? If it is so “basic”, why don’t you directly address the following three questions by Stephen L. Talbott:
(1) If genes determine the form and substance of the organism, how is it that such radically different cellular architectures result from the same genes? (2) What directs genes to produce the intricately sculpted and differentiated form of a complex organism, and (...) (3) how can this directing agency be governed by the very genes that it directs?
Box
November 13, 2015
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Can population genetics tell us how long it takes to evolve a flagellum in a population that never had one? Can it say how many generations it takes to evolve an upright biped from a knuckle-walker? Can it even tell us if the physiological and morphological changes required are even possible via genetic change? Are models for population genetics as unreliable as climate models?Virgil Cain
November 13, 2015
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Jack Jones, love your quote. I have always held Gould in high regard. He seemed determined to follow the evidence where it leads. The evidence from the fossil record is clear -- punctuated equilibrium. So what does Coyne have against this evidence? It doesn't fit the theory! So if evidence and theory are at odds, who wins? Why, theory, of course.bFast
November 13, 2015
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Andre says,
So Natural selection’s role, is population differentiation and neutral evolution role is population divergence. The hypothesis is that they are linked by degree and is dependent on gene flow between the populations and environments. Drift comes into the picture when there is an actual reduction in gene flow between populations due to divergent selection. These mechanisms roles lead to adaption, and in turn, the isolating effects of these adaptions lead to genomic differentiation between the populations. ATT: Prof Moran How did I do?
Not very well. The major role of natural selection, by far, is negative selection or removing deleterious alleles. When beneficial alleles are fixed the population changes but this isn't always called "population differentiation." It would be better to just say the population evolves, or changes. "Neutral evolution" is not a scientific term. What you should have said, perhaps, is the fixation of neutral (actually, nearly-neutral) alleles by random genetic drift. The reason this distinction is important is because most beneficial alleles are removed by random genetic drift and many truly deleterious alleles are fixed by random genetic drift. Thus, your use of "neutral evolution" in contrast to "natural selection" is misleading. When alleles are fixed by random genetic drift, the population evolves just as it does if alleles are fixed by natural selection. Often it's very difficult to tell which evolutionary process is operating. It is not correct to say that one mechanism leads to differentiation and the other leads to divergence. You say, "The hypothesis is that they are linked by degree and is dependent on gene flow between the populations and environments." That makes no sense to me. Natural selection and random genetic drift operate in populations with gene flow and without it. The environment influences both mechanisms but, on the other hand, both natural selection and random genetic drift will occur in a constant environment. You say, "Drift comes into the picture when there is an actual reduction in gene flow between populations due to divergent selection." That's not correct. Random genetic drift is always happening in all populations all the time. It's happening right now in all human populations all around the world. You say, "These mechanisms roles lead to adaption, and in turn, the isolating effects of these adaptions lead to genomic differentiation between the populations." Most adaptation is due almost exclusively to natural selection but there are exceptions. Most of the genomic differences between populations are probably not due to adaptations but to changes in the frequencies of neutral alleles by random genetic drift. You got a few ideas that are correct. D-Larry Moran
November 13, 2015
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"I had a lot of respect for Gould, but over the years it waned. He became enamoured of his theory of punctuated equilibrium which I thought was really wrong. I still do. He and I had several exchanges in the literature about that theory, with me saying it was bunk and him saying it wasn’t. His intransigence in the face of the facts made me lose some respect for him." http://fivebooks.com/interviews/jerry-coyne-on-evolution Tell me Larry, Does Coyne understand Evolution when he says that punctuated equilibrium is bunk? Maybe you can go and ask your brother Moe, You seem to be struggling with simple questions about your faith and yet you carry on like you are the ultimate authority. hahahahahahaJack Jones
November 13, 2015
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Box says,
For me, Steve Talbott has decisively debunked Lynch’s (and Moran’s) gene-centric view by means of simple crystal clear logic.
He follows up that ridiculous statement with some information about gene regulation. Box, are you serious? Do you actually believe that Michael Lynch and I are completely ignorant about basic biochemistry and molecular biology? Have you read my textbook? This is exactly what I mean when I say that ID proponents have to do some homework before they can be credible critics of evolution. You and bornagain just look silly when you say things like that. It means you haven't got a clue about population genetics and evolutionary theory. Here's what Michael Lynch says about these criticisms from developmental biologists in The Orgins of Genome Architecture (p. 371-372)
Evolution is much more than a storytelling exercise, and the goal of population genetics is not to be inspiring, but to be explanatory. From the standpoint of its phenotypic products, evolution is indeed more than a change in gene frequencies: organisms are far more than the sum of their parts, just as genes as more than the sum of their functional components. But if we are concerned with the process of evolutionary change, then evolution is indeed a change in gene frequencies (or more accurately, a change in genotype frequencies). Population genetics provides an essential framework for understanding how such changes come about, and more importantly, grounds us in reality by clarifying the pathways that are open or closed to evolutionary exploitation in various contexts.... Population geneticists do not claim to have solved every problem in evolution—far from it. But as far as we know, the basic theoretical machinery to do so is largely in place. Population geneticists do not aspire to exclusive ownership of the field of evolutionary biology. Indeed, one of the central points of the preceding chapters is that a full understanding of the evolutionary process will be impossible without substantial input from molecular, cellular, and developmental biologists. However, such integration needs to be a two-way street. Evolutionary biologists have thought quite a lot about evolution, and individuals from outside the field who claim to have solved major evolutionary enigma might want to consider why their ideas have not previously come to the forefront. Have such ideas been ignored, or have they faded into the background because their feasibility is known to be marginal? The population genetic basis of evolutionary change is now so well established that those who claim its inadequacy should certainly bear the burden of explanation.
I've said this many times before: you are welcome to disagree with Michael Lynch and to present logical evidence-based arguments against his view. What you are not welcome to do is attack a stupid strawman version of what you think he believes. If you are not prepared to invest a little effort in your criticism then it's best to keep quiet. As the old saying goes, "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."Larry Moran
November 13, 2015
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What has genetic drift got to do with the evolution of one type of life form to another? The Berkeley website on genetic drift shows a foot treading on the green beetles, originally there were three green beetles and 6 brown beetles and you end up with 6 brown beetles and 1 green beetle. What the hell has that got to do with how beetles originated and how does that provide any mechanism for beetles to evolve towards a new type of life over time?Jack Jones
November 13, 2015
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Z, I am very aware of the manipulative use of "fact" in Wiki etc. That use is to be challenged and removed as inappropriate for serious use. Secondly, scientific theories, hypotheses and models are inherently provisional explanatory frameworks, being abstract inference based conceptual (and hopefully logical) entities . . . which are utterly distinct from the concrete, empirically confirmed pretty direct summaries of reality that "fact" designates under normal circumstances. E.g. it is a fact that water at 1 atm will boil at 100 degrees C. Likewise that g at sea level is approximately 9.8 N/kg, implying in context a mass for earth of some 6 * 10^24 kg. Similarly Christopher Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue in 1492, Paris is the capital of France and London of England, which latter was chosen for the zero longitude line. The former houses the standard kg, though there is an effort to replace that standard. Eratosthenes calculated a value for earth's circ. in C3 BC, Those are facts. E.g. that Columbus' objectors at court thought the world was flat is a commonly believed myth. Their dispute with him was on the SIZE of the globe, and they were right. But Columbus had recognised the trade wind system and had cumulative evidence pointing to something in about 3 months' sailing reach. He thought it was the Old World. He -- relative to Europe -- discovered a new world. Though, he may never have fully come to terms with that. This shows facts vs opinions and discoveries of new facts, in a context where a theory of terrestrial planets was yet centuries in the future. Universal common descent, or broad common descent of life forms is a theoretical proposition not an observed fact. The origin of the Sol system out of a giant molecular cloud is not an observed fact. The evolutionary materialist scientism dominated model of descent from LUCA per blind chance variations of 47 or whatever flavours this month, with differential reproductive success and culling out of relatively unsuccessful varieties, plus and/or various other proposed mechanisms leading to claimed body plan level macroevolution in a branching tree pattern with room for cross links etc etc that is held to account for the world of life is an elaborate theoretical explanation with many untestable points and controversial assumptions, not even remotely a fact. The attempt to portray such as a fact -- where, only fools dispute facts -- is thus a grand category error that sustains indoctrination. It is time for re-thinking. KFkairosfocus
November 13, 2015
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For me, Steve Talbott has decisively debunked Lynch’s (and Moran’s) gene-centric view by means of simple crystal clear logic. See for instance here:
Another conundrum — perhaps the most decisive one — has been recognized and wrestled with (or more often just ignored) since the early twentieth century. With few exceptions, every different type of cell in the human body contains the same chromosomes and the same DNA sequence as the original, single-celled zygote. Yet somehow this zygote manages to differentiate into every manner of tissue — liver, skin, muscle, brain, blood, bone, retina, and so on. If genes determine the form and substance of the organism, how is it that such radically different cellular architectures result from the same genes? What directs genes to produce the intricately sculpted and differentiated form of a complex organism, and how can this directing agency be governed by the very genes that it directs? (...) Cells of the mature heart and brain, then, have inherited entirely different destinies, but the difference in those destinies was not written in their DNA sequences, which remain identical in both organs. If we were stuck in the “chimp equals human” mindset, we would have to say that the brain is the same as the heart. [Getting Over the Code Delusion, Steve Talbott]
And here again:
Like a phoenix rising from its pyre. Well, the fact is that no organisms result from genetic instructions (Talbott 2012*). And, to reinforce the point, there are flying and crawling creatures with the same genomic sequence. A monarch butterfly and its larva, for example. Nor is this an isolated case. A swimming, “water-breathing” tadpole and a leaping, air-breathing frog are creatures with the same DNA. Then there is the starfish: its bilaterally symmetric larva swims freely by means of cilia, after which it settles onto the ocean floor and metamorphoses into the familiar form of the adult. This adult, bearing the same DNA as the larva, exhibits an altogether different, radially symmetric (star-like) body plan. Millions of species consist of such improbably distinct creatures, organized in completely different ways at different stages of their life, yet carrying around the same genetic inheritance. Isn’t it a truth inviting the most profound meditation by every biologist? The picture is so dramatic that it deserves an extended sketch. I draw from a description of the goliath beetle offered by British physician and evolutionary scientist, Frank Ryan: .... (see more) [Genes and the Central Fallacy of Evolutionary Theory, Steve Talbott]
Box
November 13, 2015
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Virgil Take note, I said the hypothesis goes. Lets see if Prof Moran will grade my answer...... I'm hoping that if the answer is correct (and I'm pretty sure it is), the nonsense of you don't understand is put to bed and we can start the real discussions.Andre
November 13, 2015
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Evolution is a fact in that allele frequencies do change over time. That is a very trivial fact. However there isn't any scientific theory of evolution and that is also a fact.Virgil Cain
November 13, 2015
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I can drop an apple and watch it fall. There is no such demonstration I can watch of unguided material processes producing non-trivial functional information. And yet I do watch human intelligence generating non-trivial information all the time.
"Our experience-based knowledge of information-flow confirms that systems with large amounts of specified complexity (especially codes and languages) invariably originate from an intelligent source -- from a mind or personal agent." (Stephen C. Meyer, "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories," Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, 117(2):213-239 (2004).) Stephen Meyer: Charles Darwin's Methods, Different Conclusion - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqq6JP5gE0E "A code system is always the result of a mental process (it requires an intelligent origin or inventor). It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required. ,,,there is no known law of nature and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter. Werner Gitt 1997 In The Beginning Was Information pp. 64-67, 79, 107." (The retired Dr Gitt was a director and professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology (Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt, Braunschweig), the Head of the Department of Information Technology.) The Origin of Information: How to Solve It - Perry Marshall Technology Prize for Origin of Information $100,000 For Initial Discovery $3 million USD if Patentable Non-Disclosure Agreements Required Natural Code LLC is a Private Equity Investment group formed to identify a naturally occurring code. Our mission is to discover, develop and commercialize core principles of nature which give rise to information, consciousness and intelligence. Natural Code LLC will pay the researcher $100,000 for the initial discovery of such a code. If the newly discovered process is defensibly patentable, we will secure the patent(s). Once patents are granted, we will pay the full prize amount to the discoverer in exchange for the rights. Our investment group will locate or develop commercial applications for the technology. The discoverer will retain a small percentage of ongoing ownership of the technology.,,, Where did the information in DNA come from? This is one of the most important and valuable questions in the history of science. Cosmic Fingerprints has issued a challenge to the scientific community: “Show an example of Information that doesn’t come from a mind. All you need is one.” “Information” is defined as digital communication between an encoder and a decoder, using agreed upon symbols. To date, no one has shown an example of a naturally occurring encoding / decoding system, i.e. one that has demonstrably come into existence without a designer. A private equity investment group is offering a technology prize for this discovery. We will financially reward and publicize the first person who can solve this;,,, To solve this problem is far more than an object of abstract religious or philosophical discussion. It would demonstrate a mechanism for producing coding systems, thus opening up new channels of scientific discovery. Such a find would have sweeping implications for Artificial Intelligence research. http://cosmicfingerprints.com/solve/
bornagain
November 13, 2015
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kairosfocus: To begin with, you full well know that it is a COMMON resort by Darwinists to appeal to the assertion that the Darwinist macro picture is fact, Fact, FACT; with implication that only fools dispute facts. "Evolution as Fact and Theory ... In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms." http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_fact-and-theory.htmlZachriel
November 13, 2015
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I'm slightly annoyed..... Gordon Davies asked us a question.... I answered and he's not responding....... Gordon's question
I suggested Barry demonstrate his understanding by describing the relationship between selection, drift, and neutral evolution,
So Natural selection’s role, is population differentiation and neutral evolution role is population divergence. The hypothesis is that they are linked by degree and is dependent on gene flow between the populations and environments. Drift comes into the picture when there is an actual reduction in gene flow between populations due to divergent selection. These mechanisms roles lead to adaption, and in turn, the isolating effects of these adaptions lead to genomic differentiation between the populations. ATT: Prof Moran How did I do?Andre
November 13, 2015
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headlined: https://uncommondescent.com/ethics/science-worldview-issues-and-society/btb-4-evolutionary-materialism-as-fact-fact-fact-and-its-self-falsifying-self-referential-incoherence/kairosfocus
November 13, 2015
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Besides providing direct empirical falsification of Darwinian claims as to the generation of information from a material basis, the implication of finding 'non-local', i.e. beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’ quantum information in molecular biology on a massive scale, (i.e. in every DNA and protein molecule), is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious:
Does Quantum Biology Support A Quantum Soul? – Stuart Hameroff - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIyEjh6ef_8 The Case for the Soul (Near-Death Experiences) - video (Quantum Entangled consciousness and conservation of quantum information discussed at 9:00 minute mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBO0Y9GJhk
Verse and Music:
Mark 8:36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Shatter Me Featuring Lzzy Hale - Lindsey Stirling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49tpIMDy9BE
Supplemental note:
Interview: Dr. Mary Neal died in a Kayak accident and found evidence for the afterlife. Imagine Heaven - Near Death Experiences - Evidence for the Afterlife https://vimeo.com/140585737
bornagain
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