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At Evolution News: Stuart Burgess Informs Evolutionist Nathan Lents on the Design Genius of the Ankle and Wrist

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David Klinghoffer writes:

When engineers educate evolutionists about where their theory falls short, the results can be enlightening and entertaining. Sometimes they are spectacular. That’s the case with distinguished mechanical engineer Stuart Burgess and his presentation at the recent Westminster Conference on Science and Faith. Burgess addresses some claims of forensic scientist Nathan Lents in the latter’s 2018 book, Human Errors: A Panorama of Our Glitches, from Pointless Bones to Broken Genes. As Burgess says, “It should be called Lents’s Errors.”

Professor Lents is a proponent of the “unintelligent design” hypothesis. He looks at engineering marvels like the human wrist and ankle and sees only “blunders,” “pointless bones,” “anatomical errors.” Burgess has studied those wonders of biology more closely than Lents has and explains in detail why they are, in fact, “ingenious” solutions to engineering problems that leave the genius of human engineers far behind. Burgess is simply on fire. You’ve got to watch this:

Evolution News

Comments
I think Sev is out looking for a concert ... or a baseball game.ayearningforpublius
September 15, 2022
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Doubter @ 10 Thanks. Now I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for Sev's reply.ayearningforpublius
September 15, 2022
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“So, who’s on your list off all time great guitarists?” Randy Rhoads Vividvividbleau
September 14, 2022
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I saw Victor Wooden several times, including once at a small demo lesson/concert for bass players. Also, I'm a Duane Allman/Dickie Betts fan. And I'm a deadhead, so Garcia.Viola Lee
September 14, 2022
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Without getting too technical, the hip and knee are built to fine tolerances. That means in order to function correctly, each component must be the precise shape and size required. Attempts to replace hip bones and knees have become possible but the fit must be precise. This is man's attempt to replace a design that required no machining to grow into place correctly.relatd
September 14, 2022
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You know, if I wanted someone playing for my soul I just might pick Duane Allman. Just listen to Layla by Derek and the Dominoes or Live at the Fillmore East by The Allman Brothers. Fantastic stuff.JVL
September 14, 2022
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Viola Lee: Victor Wooten and Jaco Pastorius. ? Different genres than what you guys are talking about. Good stuff! I'd love to have seen them.JVL
September 14, 2022
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Relatd: I saw Robert Fripp at a record store. A friend called and we were on our way. After we all came in, the doors were closed. Mr. Fripp requested no recording devices be turned on. It was very, very good. Amazing. How lucky are you?JVL
September 14, 2022
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Further comment from ENV: "He (Burgess) is one of the leading engineers in the UK.,,,"
Burgess: Claims of “Poor Design” in Skeletal Joints Are Based on Critics’ Lack of Training in Engineering Brian Miller - September 14, 2022 Excerpt: As an engineering professor at Bristol University and Cambridge, Stuart Burgess has researched biomechanics for nearly thirty years. He is one of the leading engineers in the UK.,,, https://evolutionnews.org/2022/09/burgess-claims-of-poor-design-in-skeletal-joints-are-based-on-critics-lack-of-training-in-engineering/
As a top engineer in the UK, perhaps Dr. Burgess just might have a clue what he is talking about when he says that "Human Skeletal Joints Are Masterpieces of Engineering",
Why Human Skeletal Joints Are Masterpieces of Engineering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmXjK4HiM4M Professor Stuart Burgess B.Sc., Ph.D.(Brun.), C.Eng., F.I.Mech.E. Current positions Professor of Engineering Design Department of Mechanical Engineering https://www.bristol.ac.uk/people/person/Stuart-Burgess-d9aa408b-265a-46e0-9446-b3d77d3477dc/
bornagain77
September 14, 2022
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Victor Wooten and Jaco Pastorius. :-) Different genres than what you guys are talking about.Viola Lee
September 14, 2022
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I saw Robert Fripp at a record store. A friend called and we were on our way. After we all came in, the doors were closed. Mr. Fripp requested no recording devices be turned on. It was very, very good.relatd
September 14, 2022
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Asauber: I’m a Prog Rocker at heart Yeah, me too . . . except for The Who and Led Zeppelin. Steve Howe and Trevor Rabin of Yes Damn good choices. What was that tune from Steve Howe's solo album about Agatha Christie? Alex Lifeson of Rush Can't argue with that. Great band. Ty Tabor of King’s X Eric Johnson (solo artist) Not sure I know them. I will look them up. Greg Lake, Dave Murray, Adrian Smith, Joe Satriani, Steve Hackett, Andy Summers… Actually, it might have been Steve Hackett I was referring to above . . . No Robert Fripp? Adrian Belew? :-) I could go on. How ’bout you? Top Five? Eric Clapton. Brian May . . . more for feel than for technique. Same with Pete Townshend. Love the man and his tunes though. Carlos Santana? I appreciate Jimi Hendrix but hardly listen to him. What's his name from The Band . . . sorry, just getting dinner ready and trying to quickly respond . . . Robbie Robertson! My choices aren't so much great guitar players as they are just great team players. Waddy Watchel? When he was in his prime Rick Derringer could sing. Okay, okay, . . . the guy from Little Feat . . . Lowell George. Again, more for feel and songwriting. I'll have a think. Back later. Good discussion.JVL
September 14, 2022
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"BTW, the best bassist of all time was Chris Squire of Yes….." CD, This is the first and prolly only time we're in agreement on anything. ;) Andrewasauber
September 14, 2022
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"So, who’s on your list off all time great guitarists?" JVL, There are so many great guitarists out there... I like to narrow it down to a handful of guys I would call my Guitar Heroes because they are the ones who directly inspire(d) me the most with the music they (and their bands) made and their skill. I'm a Prog Rocker at heart, sooooo... Steve Howe and Trevor Rabin of Yes Alex Lifeson of Rush Ty Tabor of King's X Eric Johnson (solo artist) Honorable mentions: Greg Lake, Dave Murray, Adrian Smith, Joe Satriani, Steve Hackett, Andy Summers... I could go on. How 'bout you? Top Five? Andrewasauber
September 14, 2022
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The insult de jour is "jaundiced mentally handicapped materialists" generously provided by "Doubter" @ 10........ BTW, the best bassist of all time was Chris Squire of Yes.....chuckdarwin
September 14, 2022
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Asauber: I once saw Stu Hamm live play ‘Linus and Lucy’ on his bass. He tapped the lower notes with his left hand and the melody with his right. I was duly impressed.k You were very lucky. I wish bass players were more recognised. But, then again, there are fewer great ones than guitarists. So, who's on your list off all time great guitarists? Someone I normally wouldn't even think about but just burned the stage live was Bonnie Raitt. Well, at least once in Seattle. I'm a bit of a Richard Thompson fan to be honest. But I wouldn't put him in the top 10 (or maybe 20) of all time). Phil Manzanera is sadly under appreciated.JVL
September 14, 2022
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JVL, Cool. I once saw Stu Hamm live play 'Linus and Lucy' on his bass. He tapped the lower notes with his left hand and the melody with his right. I was duly impressed. Andrewasauber
September 14, 2022
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Asauber: Guitarists have always been doing amazing things with hands and fingers and wrists And some bass players; thinking of John Entwistle in particular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd6S0BrI9zw (bass solo starts about 5 min in)JVL
September 14, 2022
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Ayearningforpublius@5 Thanks for an impressive partial revelation of the miracles of design in the human body and brain and mind that most people take for granted, and that many jaundiced mentally handicapped materialists routinely dismiss. Of course there is much much more.doubter
September 14, 2022
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"watch the hands, and in particular the fingers of the orchestra members as they travel across the various instruments" Indeed. I'm a guitar player and I love watching other guitarists perform, no matter what the style. Guitarists have always been doing amazing things with hands and fingers and wrists, but some of the kids today...wow. Andrewasauber
September 14, 2022
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Thanks, Blastus It seems that so often at our young and inquiring stages of life, typically in college, we take on a veneer, a thin veneer that colors our view of life. In my own case it was the influence of a somewhat influential future brother-in-law that had me reading books by Bertrand Russell and other atheist thinkers and influencers of the day. Others come away with this veneer and go off to great success by creating Paper Mache models of mountains and offer this to countless naive students as proof of what Darwin had to say about life - Dawkins.ayearningforpublius
September 14, 2022
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Excellent comment Publius @ 5. You could continue in your examples. For example there is the US space program at NASA. I am certain there are countless other examples in countless other fields. Related @ 6 raises a valid point as well. I would add: 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV ... the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.Blastus
September 14, 2022
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Human beings have been given their creativity from God. I saw photos a friend took while in Ireland. The architectural ornamentation on a gate, for example. A national identity in wrought metal. I saw the heart and soul of a country. Yet here, I see evidence of cold, dead hearts. Of eyes that don't see, or that see only what they want to see. John 3:19 "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil."relatd
September 14, 2022
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Seversky lays out a challenge above: "I will be happy to oblige when he – or Stuart Burgess – provide empirical evidence for the existence and nature of their putative designer and an explanation of how and why he/she/it accomplished their designs." Let me offer such "empirical evidence" in the form of what we can observe all around us. What Seversky sees as “quirks and kinks, the makeshift solutions and haywire failures, of human biology,” many see as an elegant and quite magnificent design with an amazing and far-ranging menu of capabilities. Let me suggest an exercise that Seversky and others can easily accomplish, and I believe you may see my point. Take an evening out and partake in one of those wonderful choral and orchestra performances taking place all around the world at any given time – I would recommend Handel’s Messiah for this exercise. As you are watching and listing to this amazing musical performance, I would like you to notice and watch a number of things very carefully. First the hands – the hands and body motions of the conductor, as well as his facial expressions and body movements as he leads the choir and orchestra through this magnificent musical piece. Continuing with the hands — watch the hands, and in particular the fingers of the orchestra members as they travel across the various instruments – the sting section, the brass section, the woodwinds — the piano. Watch carefully as their hands precisely match the direction given by the conductor. Watch as the fingers subtly, and at times strongly tease the music from their instruments. And note the various musical instruments — envisioned, designed and created by many beautifully designed and created hands and fingers. Next the choral voices – listen as these beautiful voices blend together perfectly with the orchestra and watch the faces and mouths as they blend perfectly with the hands of the conductor and with the orchestra. Next listen and pay attention to your own reaction as a message from the words and music bring excitement and inspiration into your heart and soul. As you leave the concert hall, take time to look at the building and its architecture and artistry. Again, the hands, arms, legs and mind of those artisans designed those arches, paintings and sculptures you admire so much. And when you get back home in bed, ponder over the creation of the musical score of the “Messiah.” Imagine Handel hovering over his desk and the paper taking on lines and musical symbols and words. Imagine him going back and forth over that manuscript as he goes to and from the scriptures that are inspiring him. Imagine the music that is building inside his head as he creates this masterpiece. No – the human body is not the “quirks and kinks, the makeshift solutions and haywire failures, of human biology,” but is something far more splendid and wonderful. Next I would suggest a couple of sporting events for Seversky. First to a major league baseball game where they can witness the flawless execution of a double play. Beginning with the pitcher placing the ball across home plate at 90+ mph. We then see the batter follow that fast moving and curving baseball with his eyes, calculating where it will be as it passes into the strike zone where he can then attempt to hit it with his well hand/eye coordinated swing. Then we see the shortstop field the fast-moving ball after anticipating and calculating where it will enter his glove. He then shovels it off to the second baseman who tags the runner out while leaping over the runner, and then a quick and precise throw to the first baseman who steps on first base for the second out of the double play. Next we go to an NBA basketball game where we witness the continual back and forth of finely tuned, trained and coordinated athletes showcasing example after example of what these well-designed machines are capable of. Next we are off to an NFL football game where we witness precision in the well-designed human body of a quarterback throwing the football with precise accuracy to a fast moving and maneuvering receiver who stretches his body out to execute a fingertip catch as he passes the goal line for a touchdown. No – the human body is not the “quirks and kinks, the makeshift solutions and haywire failures, of human biology,” but is something far more splendid and wonderful. Next we travel into the applied biological science of medicine and medical research and invite Seversky to read and study the extensive articles that a Dr. Howard Glicksman has compiled on the intricacies and design of many aspects of the human body. We see this compilation of science reporting at http://www.evolutionnews.org/continuing_seri/the_designed_bo/ This series contains at least a half dozen articles on blood pressure alone, and how it is controlled within the human body. Note that this science reporting by Dr. Glicksman is seen in the Discovery Institute web site http://www.evolutionnews.org – an ID site – and not on the pages of the National Center for Science Education. I have been following the NCSE site as well as the Discovery site and others for years now, and what I find is that good science reporting like I describe above is found often and on a regular basis there, whereas seldom – approaching never – is an any science reported by NCSE. I find that very interesting and troubling, and thus would offer a caution to teachers to view NCSE with a great deal of skepticism, and especially the book of Professor Nathan Lents in his book, "Human Errors: A Panorama of Our Glitches, from Pointless Bones to Broken Genes" which is little more than a hit piece on those of us who differ with the Atheistic stance and mission of NCSE. No – the human body is not the “quirks and kinks, the makeshift solutions and haywire failures, of human biology,” but is something far more splendid and wonderful. So what say you Seversky? Are you willing to take a good look at this sort of "empirical evidence" that you yourself can delve into? My original post on this is at: https://ayearningforpublius.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/the-not-so-intelligent-designer/ayearningforpublius
September 14, 2022
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Seversky at 2, Do you think people are stupid? Have you seen a bird in flight? A hawk maneuvering to get its prey? Sorry, but your worldview has literally clouded your vision. A sparrow is an incredible piece of engineering. You have no sense of wonder. The beauty in nature was designed but you appear to prefer chaos.relatd
September 14, 2022
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Sev, your "bad design" argument is irrelevant. It's a "why did God do it that way?" You always want to talk theology instead of observable scientific data...because you know what the conclusion is. So, you try to smear God because you know you can't escape the unescapable. Why not give up and surrender to the truth and be healed instead of trying to find a way to ward off your cognitive dissonance with nonsensical arguments? You hand wave off the reality of the absurdity of macroevolution by saying some things don't work very well....... where is your faith? "science will likely discover why things are the way they are" as you say... ugh.zweston
September 14, 2022
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Yet another datapoint for the Salem Hypothesis. What is it about engineering that attract people of a creationist bent? What makes them think that everything can be explained by engineering principles? We can all marvel at the wonders of the living world. In fairness - to provide balance - we should also take into account the less-than-wonderful parts of biology, which most ID proponents prefer to ignore or are compelled to try and explain away, usually by reference to some inscrutable purpose in the mind of said designer. Martin-r demands a fossil sequence which demonstrates the evolution of a dinosaur's skeleton/joint. I will be happy to oblige when he - or Stuart Burgess - provide empirical evidence for the existence and nature of their putative designer and an explanation of how and why he/she/it accomplished their designs.Seversky
September 14, 2022
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with evolutionists it is always the same. When I, as an engineer, want to learn how some crucial feature evolved, THEY NEVER KNOW ... I might be wrong, but from what i could understand, evolutionists don't know how bones evolved, let alone the whole skeleton or joints. (All what evolutionists do, they tell you a very, really a very absurd just-so story about some skin mineralization) I posted the following yesterday elsewhere: Could some of our dear colleagues Darwinists (Seversky, Chuck, JVL, or whoever), point me to an article about how dinosaur's bones/skeleton evolved ? Where in the fossil record can i see the evolution of dinosaur skeleton and joints ? ... i would like to see ... because i, as an engineer, just can't imagine how joints could have evolved. I just can't. As we can see in this video, humans joints are pretty sophisticated, but what about dino joints? Dino's joints have to withstand a pretty heavy load of several tons, especially when running (dynamic stress is much higher than a static stress). So please, dear Darwinists, show me the evolution of dino's bones/joints ... or a skeleton ... show me anything ... because all what i see are complete fully working joint/skeletons ...martin_r
September 14, 2022
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