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At Newsweek: How Science Stopped Backing Atheists and Started Pointing Back to God

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Stephen Meyer, Director of the Center for Science and Culture, writes:

Headlines lately have not been encouraging for the faithful. A Gallup poll shows that the percentage of Americans who believe in God has fallen to 81 percent—a drop of 10 percent over the last decade and an all-time low. This accelerating trend is especially pronounced among young adults. According to a Pew Research Center poll, 18-29 year-olds are disproportionately represented among so-called “nones”—atheists, agnostics and the religiously unaffiliated.

Pastors and other religious leaders have attributed this trend to many factors: young people being raised outside the church, an unfamiliarity with liturgy and church culture, even COVID-19.

We found another answer in our national survey to probe the underlying reasons for this growing unbelief: a misunderstanding of science.

Perhaps surprisingly, our survey discovered that the perceived message of science has played a leading role in the loss of faith. We found that scientific theories about the unguided evolution of life have, in particular, led more people to reject belief in God than worries about suffering, disease, or death. It also showed that 65 percent of self-described atheists and 43 percent of agnostics believe “the findings of science [generally] make the existence of God less probable.”

It’s easy to see why this perception has proliferated. In recent years, many scientists have emerged as celebrity spokesmen for atheism. Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Bill Nye, Michael Shermer, the late Stephen Hawking, and others have published popular books arguing that science renders belief in God unnecessary or implausible. “The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if, at bottom, there is no purpose, no design… nothing but blind, pitiless indifference,” Dawkins famously wrote.

God
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Yet, between message and reality, there is a major disconnect. Over the last century, important scientific discoveries have dramatically challenged science-based atheism, and three in particular now tell a decidedly more God-friendly story.

First, scientists have discovered that the physical universe had a beginning. This finding, supported by observational astronomy and theoretical physics, contradicts the expectations of scientific atheists, who long portrayed the universe as eternal and self-existent—and, therefore, in no need of an external creator.

Evidence for what scientists call the Big Bang has instead confirmed the expectations of traditional theists. Nobel laureate Arno Penzias, who helped make a key discovery supporting the Big Bang theory, has noted the obvious connection between its affirmation of a cosmic beginning and the concept of divine creation. “The best data we have are exactly what I would have predicted, had I nothing to go on but the five books of Moses…[and] the Bible as a whole,” writes Penzias.

Second, discoveries from physics about the structure of the universe reinforce this theistic conclusion. Since the 1960s, physicists have determined that the fundamental physical laws and parameters of our universe are finely tuned, against all odds, to make our universe capable of hosting life. Even slight alterations of many independent factors—such as the strength of gravitational or electromagnetic attraction, or the initial arrangement of matter and energy in the universe—would have rendered life impossible. Scientists have discovered that we live in a kind of “Goldilocks Universe,” or what Australian physicist Luke Barnes calls an extremely “Fortunate Universe.”

Not surprisingly, many physicists have concluded that this improbable fine-tuning points to a cosmic “fine-tuner.” As former Cambridge astrophysicist Sir Fred Hoyle argued, “A common-sense interpretation of the data suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with physics” to make life possible.

Newsweek

Comments
F/N: On some of what Provine points to, we may read in an October 13th, 1880 letter to Edward Bibbins Aveling (a physician, and Common Law husband of Eleanor Marx (1884), thus better known to history as Karl Marx's de facto son- in- law) in reference to requested remarks on a book by Aveling that sought to popularise Darwin's thought [apparently, The Student's Darwin. London: Freethought Publishing Co., 1881], Charles Darwin went on record as follows:
. . . though I am a strong advocate for free thought [--> NB: free-thought is an old synonym for skepticism, agnosticism or atheism] on all subjects, yet it appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against christianity & theism produce hardly any effect on the public; & freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men’s minds, which follows from the advance of science. It has, therefore, been always my object to avoid writing on religion, & I have confined myself to science. I may, however, have been unduly biassed by the pain which it would give some members of my family [--> NB: especially his wife, Emma], if I aided in any way direct attacks on religion.
This letter makes it utterly clear that a key background motive for Darwin's theorising on origins science was to put God out of a job, thus indirectly undermining the plausibility of believing in God. In thinking and acting like this, he probably believed that he was championing enlightenment and science-led progress in their path to victory over backward, irrational but emotionally clung-to beliefs. And so his strategy was to lead in a science that was in his mind showing just how outdated and ill-founded the Judaeo-Christian theism that had dominated the West since Constantine in the 300's was. However, in fact, the shoe is on the other foot as Provine inadvertently brought out. Which brings us right back to Haldane, which needs to be attended to by objectors, if they are responsible:
"It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For
if [p:] my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain [–> taking in DNA, epigenetics and matters of computer organisation, programming and dynamic-stochastic processes; notice, "my brain," i.e. self referential] ______________________________ [ THEN] [q:] I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. [--> indeed, blindly mechanical computation is not in itself a rational process, the only rationality is the canned rationality of the programmer, where survival-filtered lucky noise is not a credible programmer, note the functionally specific, highly complex organised information rich code and algorithms in D/RNA, i.e. language and goal directed stepwise process . . . an observationally validated adequate source for such is _____ ?] [Corollary 1:] They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence [Corollary 2:] I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. [--> grand, self-referential delusion, utterly absurd self-falsifying incoherence] [Implied, Corollary 3: Reason and rationality collapse in a grand delusion, including of course general, philosophical, logical, ontological and moral knowledge; reductio ad absurdum, a FAILED, and FALSE, intellectually futile and bankrupt, ruinously absurd system of thought.]
In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” ["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209. Cf. here on (and esp here) on the self-refutation by self-falsifying self referential incoherence and on linked amorality.]
We know there is an ever-watching penumbra of attack sites. They are ever ready to pounce on what they think they can overturn. The steadfast silence on this focal point therefore makes plain the actual balance on merits. KFkairosfocus
July 22, 2022
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F/N: The core challenge remains unanswered. Here, it becomes pivotal to observe some remarks on Darwin's motives and perceptions of the wider significance of his work, as Provine commented:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent
[==> key theses of nihilism. Citing the just linked IEP: "Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history." As without rational, responsible freedom, rationality collapses, Provine implies self referential incoherence. Similarly, ethical foundations include our self evident, pervasive first duties of reason: to truth, right reason, warrant and wider prudence, fairness and justice etc. Provine has given a recipe for gross (and all too common) intellectual irresponsibility.]
. . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will [--> without responsible freedom, mind, reason and morality alike disintegrate into grand delusion, hence self-referential incoherence and self-refutation. But that does not make such fallacies any less effective in the hands of clever manipulators] . . . [1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address, U of Tenn -- and yes, that is significant i/l/o the Scopes Trial, 1925]
If the direct implication of a frame of thought is the discredit of the mind we use to arrive at said thought, that is a sign of a self-defeating scheme of thought. Which, is not hard to figure out. So, why has what is self defeating allowed to dominate our thinking? KFkairosfocus
July 22, 2022
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"Young conservatives are embracing the "trad wife lifestyle," Gasp !relatd
July 20, 2022
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Zweston at 176, It's easy to generalize but, based on individual responses, not that difficult to see who is who by what they write. Everything is perception and degree. If a person does not believe in God and does not focus on Him then man must look around and pick another focus. Politics is one. This is man following man only. Man is not perfect but a commitment has been made to rely on what men say. God-given truths are myths believed by some. Religion is an impediment, a wall standing between men and what they want. On the other hand, the Word of God and truths set forward and offered to men by the Church provide not just a way to Heaven but a life of service to the whole truth. This life is not all there is. Some think that as long as the baby growing in the womb cannot feel pain then it's alright to end that life. But new evidence for fetal pain exists: https://jme.bmj.com/content/46/1/3 Some think that the elderly should be allowed to die by medical means - called euthanasia. It's one thing to put animals to "sleep," but quite another to put the aged to death this way. Human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, but some believe that "Man invents himself." Jean-Paul Sartre. And this leads to some people experimenting with their own children and giving them puberty blockers and adults deciding that they have a separate identity from the one they were born to. There is only male and female. These vain imaginings, for some, create confusion, unnecessary confusion. Such experiments do not clarify but divide. The 58 "gender options" on Facebook are part of the worship of man. But this distorts the human being, making him something beyond what he is. This is not good for the individual or society. In this way, man becomes god. Rejecting his true identity for one he invents for himself to suit certain moods and attractions. Christians know how this story will end. The Mother of God (no, Catholics do not worship Mary) will crush the serpent's head. The end has been established and told beforehand.relatd
July 20, 2022
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What this always heads to is worldview. The atheists bold enough to post on here are entrenched... they will double down always instead of conceding anything. Liberals are more active in politics than conservatives... do you know why? Many conservatives are people of faith...they recognize that God is in control of politics and they know how the story ends. Secular people have government as their God, so their livelihoods and entire lifetimes are determined by the government...so they live on every word...and it's why they are willing to kill (or try) and upend the political structure just because they didn't get their way. It's worldview. Until people can come to the realization that there is an intelligent designer and only one religion in the world that has fulfilled prophecies, archaeology, historical attestation aside from their own books... then they aren't interested in jumping in on your political ideas which are informed by your faith worldview. It is entertaining though to engage though. guilty as charged. The skeptical arguments and rhetoric and strawmanning are telling of the strength of the darwinist/atheist/agnostic's strength of arguments. If you can't win the argument...slander the opponent. It's amazing how far people will go to advocate for the destruction of human lives and deviant sexual ethics. The freedom they seek is only greater bondage.zweston
July 20, 2022
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F/N: Notice, the continued evasion of the focal issues in the OP, answered at 21 on? You can bet, that had there been solid answers on the merits to either the self refuting nature of evolutionary materialistic scientism [and its fellow travellers], or to the challenge to account for origins of cosmos, life, major body plans, mind and moral government of freedom, they would have been trumpeted. The evasiveness tells us, therefore, the weight on the merits. And for sure, it does not support the notion that Science somehow makes God improbable. By the nature of the case, as a serious candidate necessary being, God either is as framework to any possible world, or is as impossible of being as a square circle. There are no serious arguments to that end, indeed speaking of probability about God implies possibility of God, which means actuality. Something is very wrong with our intellectual culture and formal and informal education systems. KFkairosfocus
July 20, 2022
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"You should have gotten that by now." Relatd, Oh I got it a looong time ago. Andrewasauber
July 20, 2022
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Andrew at 170, For some here, Christianity is this terrible thing. You should have gotten that by now. Christian missionaries just barged into pure pagan communities and told them some story and automatically converted - on a one to one basis - all their pure pagan holidays into Christian ones. And just forgot to tell anyone as the years passed.relatd
July 20, 2022
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"Christian ritual developed when, in the third century, the Church left the Catacombs. Many forms of self-expression must needs be identical, in varying times, places, cults, as long as human nature is the same. Water, oil, light, incense, singing, procession, prostration, decoration of altars, vestments of priests, are naturally at the service of universal religious instinct. Little enough, however, was directly borrowed by the Church—nothing, without being “baptized”, as was the Pantheon. In all these things, the spirit is the essential: the Church assimilates to herself what she takes, or, if she cannot adapt, she rejects it (cf. Augustine, Epp., xlvii, 3, in P.L., XXXIII, 185; “Contra Faust.”, XX, xxiii, ibid., XLII, 387; Jerome, “Epp.”, cix, ibid., XXII, 907). Even pagan feasts may be “baptized”: certainly our processions of April 25 are the Robigalia; the Rogation days may replace the Ambarualia; the date of Christmas Day may be due to the same instinct which placed on December 25, the Natalis Invicti of the solar cult. But there is little of this; our wonder is, that there is not far more [see Kellner, “Heortologie” (Freiburg, 1906). See Christmas; Epiphany. Also Thurston, “Influence of Paganism on the Christian Calendar “in “Month” (1907), pp. 225 sqq.; Duchesne, “Orig. du Culte chrétien”, tr. (London, 1910) passim; Braun, “Die priestlichen Gewänder” (Freiburg, 1897); Idem, “Die pontificalen Gewänder” (Freiburg, 1898); Rouse, “Greek Votive Offerings” (Cambridge, 1902), esp. c. v]. The cult of saints and relics is based on natural instinct and sanctioned by the lives, death, and tombs (in the first instance) of martyrs, and by the dogma of the Communion of Saints; it is not developed from definite instances of hero-worship as a general rule, though often a local martyr-cult was purposely instituted to defeat (e.g.) an oracle tenacious of pagan life (P.G., L, 551; P.L., LXXI, 831; Newman, “Essay on Development, etc.”, II, cc. ix, xii., etc.; Anrich, “Anfang des Heiligenkults, etc.”, Tubingen, 1904: especially Delehaye, “Légendes hagiographiques,” Brussels, 1906). Augustine and Jerome (Ep. cii, 8, in P.L., XXXIII, 377; “C. Vigil.”, vii, ibid., XXXIII, 361) mark wise tolerance " Source: Catholic Answersrelatd
July 20, 2022
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Relatd: In the 1950s, the whole point of putting up a Christmas tree was to celebrate the birth of Christ. The question is: where did the idea of putting up an evergreen tree for Christmas come from? YOU think of it as being a Christian practice but is that how it started? Do you want the rest of us to do the work for you or are you going to look up the history for yourself?JVL
July 20, 2022
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People have been decorating trees at various times and for countless reasons throughout history. Of course, when Christians do it, they MUST be guilty of some transgression. Sigh. Andrewasauber
July 20, 2022
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Here is an interesting item in the history of Mardi Gras in New Orleans--easily found online:
The earliest reference to Mardi Gras "Carnival" appears in a 1781 report to the Spanish colonial governing body. That year, the Perseverance Benevolent & Mutual Aid Association was the first of hundreds of clubs and carnival organizations formed in New Orleans.
What likely began as an effort to raise funds for charitable purposes somewhere along the line has lost its ways. The Devil is very clever.PaV
July 20, 2022
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JHolo @ 161: Are you saying, then, that "co-option" is a by-product of intelligence? JHolo @ 145:
What does that have to do with my comment about pride parades being no more sexually explicit that some religious celebrations? Let me be more specific. Some Christian celebrations.
In what world is Mardi Gras a "religious" celebration? It is rather an "irreligious" celebration. Ash Wednesday is a Christian, specifically, Catholic celebration, not "Fat Tuesday." This is just a secularized excuse for excess--as is evident in the name: "Fat Tuesday." Who celebrates getting fat? "The origins of Mardi Gras can be traced to medieval Europe, passing through Rome and Venice in the 17th and 18th centuries to the French House of the Bourbons. From here, the traditional revelry of "Boeuf Gras," or fatted calf, followed France to her colonies." Mardi Gras is an "Enlightenment" aberration of Christian preparedness. Let's be honest. As to "Pride Parades," if you're really "proud" of yourself, then why do you need a parade? No, Pride Parades are the mere pretense that that which should be considered 'shameful,' can be also considered 'prideful,' if you loose your moral compass.PaV
July 20, 2022
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JH at 161, More evidence of the above. In the 1950s, the whole point of putting up a Christmas tree was to celebrate the birth of Christ. But, for the politically obsessed - they have their own interpretation...relatd
July 20, 2022
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AS1978 at 157, JHolo's primary job here is to take jabs at Christianity. Along with promoting 24 hour, non-stop deviant sexual practices.relatd
July 20, 2022
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Relatd: Only Leftists use the term “co-opted.” No normal person uses that term unless influenced by Total Strangers. From Wikipedia:
Co-option or coöption is a process of appointing members to a group, or an act of absorbing or assimilating. Co-option or coöption may also refer to: in evolutionary biology, the shift in function of an adaptation
And
It may refer to the process of adding members to an elite group at the discretion of members of the body, usually to manage opposition and so maintain the stability of the group. Outsiders are "co-opted" by being given a degree of power on the grounds of their elite status, specialist knowledge, or potential ability to threaten essential commitments or goals ("formal co-optation"). Co-optation may take place in many other contexts, such as a technique by a dictatorship to control opposition. Co-optation also refers to the process by which a group subsumes or acculturates a smaller or weaker group with related interests; or, similarly, the process by which one group gains converts from another group by replicating some aspects of it without adopting the full program or ideal ("informal co-optation"). Co-optation is associated with the cultural tactic of recuperation, and is often understood to be synonymous with it.
Yeah, that's real leftist thinking there.JVL
July 20, 2022
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JH at 156, Only Leftists use the term "co-opted." No normal person uses that term unless influenced by Total Strangers.relatd
July 20, 2022
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Folks, let us remember the broken window theory. Use of coarse language or abusive or simply overly angry comments invites a down spiral. KFkairosfocus
July 20, 2022
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JH at 154, More crap. Just more crap. Your ability to push crap is amazing. That's not a good thing. Mardi Gras was not co-opted for anything. It was do you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. There was no requirement to throw Mardi Gras in as an "incentive." Later, Mardi Gras was infiltrated by sexual perverts to pervert it.relatd
July 20, 2022
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Aarons1968: Somehow you have managed to make co-opted(adopt) sound like a negative jab at religion. No. It is actually a smart political move. I assume you put up a Christmas tree. That is a co-opted tradition.JHolo
July 20, 2022
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Meanwhile, no earnest champion armed with substantial arguments stands forth to show just how and why "65 percent of self-described atheists and 43 percent of agnostics [have come to] believe “the findings of science [generally] make the existence of God less probable." That studied silence coming from the penumbra of attack sites in the end speaks louder than words, as to the true balance on merits. Again, see 21 above ff.kairosfocus
July 20, 2022
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JH, I am not pretending, I have given specific foundational teaching. There may be those who have gone along with such, but the typical activities in such revelry are not those of worship, positive civic conduct etc. I say this as part of a region riddled with such revelry. KF PS, Augustine, who was eyewitness to what had been going on and who wrote from familiarity, in City of God:
entertainments, in which the fictions of poets are the main attraction, were not introduced in the festivals of the gods by the ignorant devotion of the Romans, but that the gods themselves gave the most urgent commands to this effect, and indeed ex- torted from the Romans these solemnities and celebrations in their honor . . . . Where and when those initiated in the mysteries of Coelestis received any good instruc- tions, we know not.  What we do know is, that before her shrine, in which her image is set, and amidst a vast crowd gathering from all quarters, and standing closely packed together, we were intensely interested spectators of the games which were going on, and saw, as we pleased to turn the eye, on this side a grand display of harlots, on the other the virgin goddess; we saw this virgin worshipped with prayer and with obscene rites.  There we saw no shame- faced mimes, no actress over-burdened with modesty; all that the obscene rites demanded was fully complied with.  We were plainly shown what was pleasing to the virgin deity, and the matron who witnessed the spectacle returned home from the temple a wiser woman.  Some, indeed, of the more prudent women turned their faces from the immodest movements of the players, and learned the art of wickedness by a furtive regard.  [--> another translation puts it, made themselves familiar with the techniques of vice] For they were restrained, by the modest demeanor due to men, from looking boldly at the immodest gestures; but much more were they restrained from condemning with chaste heart the sacred rites of her whom they adored.  And yet this licentiousness—which, if practised in one’s home, could only be done there in secret—was practised as a public lesson in the temple; and if any modesty remained in men, it was occupied in marvelling that wickedness which men could not unrestrainedly commit should be part of the religious teaching of the gods, and that to omit its exhibition should incur the anger of the gods.  What spirit can that be, which by a hidden inspiration stirs men’s corruption, and goads them to adultery, and feeds on the full-fledged iniquity, unless it be the same that finds pleasure in such religious ceremonies, sets in the temples images of devils, and loves to see in play the images of vices; that whispers in secret some righteous sayings to deceive the few who are good, and scatters in public in- vitations to profligacy, to gain possession of the millions who are wicked?
Compare this with Eph 4 and Isa 5.kairosfocus
July 20, 2022
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F/N: Grooming in action in the Children's section of the library, with dismissiveness to initial objections:
ASHLAND [July 16, 2022] — Last month, the President of the Library Board of Trustees said she did not believe the placement of pornographic books in the public library’s children section was a big issue since only four people brought the issue to the board’s attention. Problem was, two of the four persons were pastors. This past week, two hundred people attended the Ashland Public Library Board of Trustees meeting including fifteen area pastors; an overwhelming majority opposing the board’s position. Because of the massive blowback, one hundred and twenty had to stand outside the room in the overflow. The response even drew elected local and state officials. “Today parents, pastors, and elected officials are showing the library board the issue of child-grooming is not just an issue with a few individuals, this is a community taking a determined stand to protect our vulnerable children,” said Melanie Miller, Executive Director of Ashland Pregnancy Care Center. “Today our children are being indoctrinated by the federal government, and now the local-somebody needs to protect them. Because of their age-inappropriate content, these books need to be moved out of the library’s children section.” Originally, two parents discovered several controversial books located in the children’s section and brought it to the attention of the Ashland Ministerial Association (AMA). One of the books, entitled “Making a Baby: An inclusive guide to how every family begins” by Rachel Greener, drew their ire. While ages 5-8 is the book’s listed reading range, AMA President Pastor Dave McNeely spoke to the board how this was misleading. “This book is grooming children for transgenderism and pedophilia.” “I do not think the Board is listening. It appears our taxpayer-funded library has a campaign to end the innocence of our children. If the Library Board of Trustees chooses not to remove the pornographic books from the shelves, we are requesting they move them to the adult section of the library. Neutrality on this issue is not a viable option. We are not going away.” “The adult section of the library is the place for books with adult level content,” Pastor John Bouquet told the board last month. “’Making Babies’ is the title, but the pictures in the book are obscene. Displaying naked men exposing naked body parts with a child while showering together is just plain wrong. [--> I think, even in the Adults Section, pervs can borrow and use in the desensitising and subtle indoctrination in tactics phase of grooming. This also gives further context to certain kinds of Library reading times.] “I make an appeal to this ruling body: uphold the values of our community. Allow children to experience innocence and protection in a culture where they are the prize to be caught.”
You explain to me how a Library Board could come to be this desensitised and captured to blatantly, intrinsically disordered conduct. Grooming is real and it is in Libraries. KFkairosfocus
July 20, 2022
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@Jholo ‘I believe that is the definition of “co-opted.”’ Somehow you have managed to make co-opted(adopt) sound like a negative jab at religionAaronS1978
July 19, 2022
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Aarons1978: Actually Mardi Gras was a pagan holiday which originated in Rome as celebration of fertility and spring Catholic leaders found it easier to incorporate the tradition into the faith then to abolish it altogether
I believe that is the definition of “co-opted.”JHolo
July 19, 2022
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Actually Mardi Gras was a pagan holiday which originated in Rome as celebration of fertility and spring Catholic leaders found it easier to incorporate the tradition into the faith then to abolish it altogether. It also used to be just one day. It has now evolved into a week long celebration Church leaders have repeatedly tried restrict Mardi Gras and its hedonistic tendencies because it detracts from Ash Wednesday and the meaning of lent Many Christian denominations do not celebrate Mardi Gras and will not celebrated It also seems to be more of a cultural celebration now than a Catholic one, but it is a Catholic celebration now. However originally it was not a Christian holiday and the only reason why it was incorporated into the religion was to avoid angering people by removing a tradition known as Carnival Ps I would never take my children to Mardi Gras, ever, Catholic or not.AaronS1978
July 19, 2022
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KF: JH, Mardi Gras is not a Christian celebration
And pigs fly.
Mardi Gras (/?m??rdi ??r??/) refers to events of the Carnival celebration, beginning on or after the Christian feasts of the Epiphany (Three Kings Day) and culminating on the day before Ash Wednesday, which is known as Shrove Tuesday. Mardi Gras is French for "Fat Tuesday", reflecting the practice of the last night of eating rich, fatty foods before the ritual Lenten sacrifices and fasting of the Lenten season.
Carnival and Mardi Gras are examples of pagan rituals co-opted by Christianity to make Christianity more palatable to the “locals”. You can’t pretend that regional celebrations conducted in conjunction with Christian holy days aren’t “Christian” simply because they make you uncomfortable.JHolo
July 19, 2022
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@KF women’s rights going strong Or barbaric procedure dressed as women’s rights that 99% of the time can be easily avoided by practicing safe and responsible sex https://www.worldometers.info/abortions/AaronS1978
July 19, 2022
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JH, Mardi Gras is not a Christian celebration, as well you know, you are again setting up a toxic strawman caricature. Here is the actual counsel of Scripture:
Eph 4: 17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self,6 which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
Backing that up:
Isa 5: 11 Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them! 12 They have lyre and harp, tambourine and flute and wine at their feasts, but they do not regard the deeds of the LORD, or see the work of his hands . . . . 18 Woe to those who draw iniquity with cords of falsehood, who draw sin as with cart ropes, 19 who say: “Let him be quick, let him speed his work that we may see it; let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw near, and let it come, that we may know it!” 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight! 22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine, and valiant men in mixing strong drink, 23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe, and deprive the innocent of his right!
More can be said but the pattern of invidious comparisons you have made, backed by obvious lack of remorse or willingness to take correction, speaks for itself. Your confirmed credibility is NEGATIVE, you are systematically wrong and often hostile, reflecting crooked yardstick thinking. (Random guessing would be expected to be unbiased.) KF PS, start with the 1.4+ billion innocents snuffed out under colour of law since the early '70's and mounting at another million per week.kairosfocus
July 19, 2022
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Then check out the pride parades in Nevada, Miami, and I believe California and they will probably blow your mind. I might not be saying that there aren’t tame pride parades but I’m also not saying there aren’t crazy ones eitherAaronS1978
July 19, 2022
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