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Bait And Switch (Intuition, Part Deux)

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Once upon a time people thought that the sun revolved around the earth because this was intuitive. They were wrong. Once upon a time people thought that the moon revolved around the earth because it was intuitive. They were right. Therefore, intuition can’t be trusted.

Good enough. Evidence eventually confirmed the truth in both cases.

Then along came neo-Darwinism in the 20th century. Intuition and the simple mathematics of combinatorics suggest that random errors and throwing out stuff that doesn’t work can’t account for highly complex information-processing machinery and the information it processes in biological systems. There is no evidence, hard science, or mathematical analysis that can give any credibility to the proposed power of the Darwinian mechanism in this regard.

Intuition suggests that step-by-tiny-step Darwinian gradualism could not have happened, because the intermediates would not be viable. A lizard with proto-feathers on its forelimbs would be a lousy aviator and an equally incompetent runner. We find no such creatures in the fossil record, for obvious reasons. We find long periods of stasis, and the emergence of fully developed creatures with entirely new and innovative capabilities.

So, the Darwinian argument essentially goes as follows: Because human intuition is sometimes wrong, we can ignore intuition, basic reasoning, historical evidence, and the lack of empirical evidence — but only in the case of the claims of the creative power of the Darwinian mechanism.

This is classic bait-and-switch con-artistry: Intuition can be wrong, therefore evidence, the lack thereof, and logic can be ignored or assumed to be wrong as well.

Comments
I would like to throw a wrench into this discussion. As we are discussing the big bang, we are not using simple intuition any more, but we are using informed intuition. Based upon the information of the big bang, our intuition is recalibrated. With the neo-Darwinian question the same thing happens. We consider the theory, we let the theory inform our intuition. Do we then find that there should be an explosion of phyla in the distant past, followed by a protracted period where new philum are never produced? I don't. When I put a neo-Darwinian hat on, when I let neo-Darwinism inform my intuition, I do not suddenly arrive at the evidence. In fact, after applying everything I know about the theory -- horizontal gene transfer, punctuated equilibrium, molecular clocks, genetic drift etc., etc. I still am unable to intuit the data that shows up in biology and biological history.bFast
July 30, 2009
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bornagain77, First, let me clarify that I'm not defending the Newtonian view, which posits absolute space and universal time. I'm just saying that 4-D spacetime presents enormously difficult philosophical problems which haven't been addressed or even acknowledged by physicists. For example, consider your own worldline in "spacetime". It determines your location for all time, and furthermore, it is immutable (nothing changes in spacetime). This is a real problem for those who believe in free will. Regarding the Big Bang, I would just quote Berlinski:
Hubble's Law embodies a general hypothesis of Big Bang cosmology---namely, that the universe is expanding---and while the law cannot be established by observation, observation can establish that it may be false. A statistically responsible body of contravening evidence has revealed something more than an incidental defect. Indifference to its implications amounts to a decision to place Big Bang cosmology beyond rational inquiry.
(my bolding) herb
July 30, 2009
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Tajimas D, 1- Half an eye is no good if it takes 100% of an eye to gain functionality. Vision systems do not function until they are 100% complete. 2- ID is NOT an argument against "evolution". ID is an argument against the blind watchmaker thesis 3- There isn't any data which demonstrates mutations can accumulate in such a way as to give rise to new protein machinery and new body plans.Joseph
July 30, 2009
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All the cosmology I have seen says that individual galaxies are not expanding but the distance between them are. But if the galaxies are close to each other then the gravity of each attracts and overcomes the expansion and they eventually will merge. In a couple billion years our galaxy will merge with Andromeda.jerry
July 30, 2009
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"Because a straw man is much easier to beat up than a real man." Another ill informed comment meant to disparage. The question is what is the real strawman and what is real.jerry
July 30, 2009
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"Why is it that when you people claim that evolution is impossible, you always happen to neglect to consider the actual process of evolution?" Here is a typical ill informed comment meant to disparage. All the eyes were available in the Cambrian n an nothing evolved since. There was no predecessor to the Cambrian so the various versions of eyes just poofed out of no where. An informed person would have taken that into account.jerry
July 30, 2009
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Tajimas, to answer your question: Because a straw man is much easier to beat up than a real man.Anthony09
July 30, 2009
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More "what good is half an eye" nonsense, topped off with creationist maths and a seeming admission of your own ignorance (note the common root with "ignore") of the evidence for evolution. Why is it that when you people claim that evolution is impossible, you always happen to neglect to consider the actual process of evolution?Tajimas D
July 30, 2009
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van (13), "Maybe I’m missing something, but if space is expanding everywhere and in all directions, why are physical objects — including our bodies not flying apart?" They are. It's just that the effect is not apparent at very small distances and only becomes apparent at extremely large distances - millions of light years. That's because it's cumulative - the further appart two objects are the faster they are moving away from each other. That is the basis of Hubble's law (velocity = H x distance, where H is the Hubble constant). The Hubble constant is measured in units of kilometres per second per megaparsec (1 megaparsec = 3.26 million light years), with a value of about 70. Hence an object thaat distance away - such as Andromeda galaxy - is moving away from us at about 70km/s due to expansion of the universe (plus a much higher velocity component due to gravitational attraction between galaxies in the Local Group). On the other hand, an object at 3 billion light years is moving away at a speed of about 70,000 km/s due to expansion, which is about one quarter of the velocity of light and swamps any speeds due to gravitational attraction. Conversely, at the much smaller distances between bits of our bodies, and atoms, the effect is negligible. But if the theory is ccorrect, it is happening throughout the universe including at these very small distances.Gaz
July 30, 2009
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Van, As Stephen pointed out, other forces conteract this in "local" environment, but eventually the "flying apart" which is wrought by the finely tuned accelerated expansion of the universe by "dark energy" will ultimately win out: Big Rip Excerpt: The Big Rip is a cosmological hypothesis first published in 2003, about the ultimate fate of the universe, in which the matter of universe, from stars and galaxies to atoms and subatomic particles, are progressively torn apart by the expansion of the universe at a certain time in the future. Theoretically, the scale factor of the universe becomes infinite at a finite time in the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip Romans 8:18-21 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. also of note: Fine Tuning Of Dark Energy and Mass of the Universe - Hugh Ross - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B0t4zSzhjgbornagain77
July 30, 2009
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Like ink dots on the surface of an expanding balloon perhaps? I believe the usual answer is that other forces (such as gravity) are counteracting this. However, I would be interested to hear from others who have investgated more than I.StephenA
July 30, 2009
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Maybe I'm missing something, but if space is expanding everywhere and in all directions, why are physical objects -- including our bodies not flying apart?van
July 30, 2009
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Here's another oberved fact: The universe looks much the same in every direction. This means either 1. We are at (or near) the center of the universe, or 2. The universe has no center. Since some people would rather hang themselves than admit No1 as a posability, that left them with the hypersphere (or similar extradimentional shape) as the only viable model for the universe. Please correct me if you know of any other finite centerless models. (infinite universe models lead to logical absurdities)StephenA
July 30, 2009
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Well Stephen, Seeing as General Relativity, Special Relativity and many other lines of evidence have firmly established the "Big Bang" and 4D spacetime cosmology, I feel rather comfortable with my inference, and feel it is up to whomever wants to defend the false 3-D materialistic construct, that was actually the ultimate basis of the "mediocrity" principle brought about by Copernicus to do so with empirical evidence, until they do so I stand firmly behind my assertions!bornagain77
July 30, 2009
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Anthony09, Who is your comment directed at? Evolutionists Or IDists?bornagain77
July 30, 2009
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"No Herb, the Cosmic Background Radiation is coming at us equally from all directions, thus we know for an absolute fact that space is expanding equally from all points in space. The only thing that is incoherent about the “higher dimensionality” of spacetime is that it radically challenges our false 3-D “materialistic” construct we have put in place for the universe." Don't confuse facts with explantions of observed facts. All we really know for a fact about CBR is that it is comming at us equally from all directions. Any explanation of it's origin is a theory. It may or may not be a good theory - that is beside the point. You need to keep clear what is observed and what is inferred.StephenA
July 30, 2009
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Your representation of evolution and extant fossils is simply false, and your understanding of evolution is extremely faulty.Anthony09
July 30, 2009
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Herb states: "but in the end it’s a math trick—”spacetime” is simply an incoherent concept." No Herb, the Cosmic Background Radiation is coming at us equally from all directions, thus we know for an absolute fact that space is expanding equally from all points in space. The only thing that is incoherent about the "higher dimensionality" of spacetime is that it radically challenges our false 3-D "materialistic" construct we have put in place for the universe.bornagain77
July 30, 2009
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Mr Lock, Are you guys using intuition? The real question is 'are you using intuition provisionally?'Nakashima
July 29, 2009
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Glad you are back GilUpright BiPed
July 29, 2009
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I would be cautious about claiming that the universe *is* any particular abstract mathematical structure. It is true that you can model certain aspects of it as a 4-dimensional pseudo-Riemannian manifold, but in the end it's a math trick---"spacetime" is simply an incoherent concept.herb
July 29, 2009
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Are you guys using intuition?Lock
July 29, 2009
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The universe is a four-dimensional expanding hypersphere, analogous in three dimensions to the surface of an expanding balloon. The surface of the balloon is finite but boundless at any point during the expansion. All points on the surface are moving away from each other, and every point could be considered to be the center of the surface, if that's where you live.GilDodgen
July 29, 2009
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I would like to point out that our "intuition" about the earth being the center of the universe may not have been that far off the mark: In 1610, the Italian scientist Galileo Galilee (1564-1642) verified Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus's (1473-1543) heliocentric theory. The heliocentric theory was hotly debated at the time, for it proposed a revolutionary idea for the 1600's stating all the planets revolved around the sun. Many people at the time had simply presumed everything in the universe revolved around the earth (geocentric theory), since from their very limited perspective everything did seem to be revolving around the earth. As well the geocentric theory seemed to agree with their religious sensibilities of being made in God's image, though the Bible never actually states the earth is the "center" of the universe. Job 26:7 “He stretches the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing” Galileo had improved upon the recently invented telescope. With this improved telescope he observed many strange things about the solar system. This included the phases of Venus as she revolved around the sun and the fact Jupiter had her own satellites (moons) which revolved around her. Thus, Galileo wrote and spoke about what had become obvious to him; the planets do indeed revolve around the sun. Man was seemingly cast down from his special place in the grand scheme of things for the earth beneath his feet no longer appeared to be the "center of the universe" and was now seemingly reduced to an insignificant speck of dust in the vast ocean of space. Of special note: In what I consider an absolutely fascinating discovery; Space itself was created in the Big Bang and continues to "expand equally in all places" i.e. The universe is not expanding "into" anything outside of itself. Thus from a 3-dimensional perspective, any particular "material" spot in the universe is to be considered just as "center of the universe" as any other particular spot in the universe is to be considered "center of the universe". There Is No Three-Dimensional Center To This Universe - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_7Ta5igSEc Where is the centre of the universe?: Excerpt: There is no centre of the universe! According to the standard theories of cosmology, the universe started with a "Big Bang" about 14 thousand million years ago and has been expanding ever since. Yet there is no centre to the expansion; it is the same everywhere. The Big Bang should not be visualized as an ordinary explosion. The universe is not expanding out from a centre into space; rather, the whole universe is expanding and it is doing so equally at all places, as far as we can tell. http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/centre.html So in a holistic sense, from what we now know to be true from 4-Dimensional space-time cosmology, and from other facts revealed later on in this paper, everything in the entire universe can be found to be "centered" on the earth, since there is no true 3-D material center to this universe. In fact, depending on how much relative importance can be found in a single person, the whole universe could truthfully be said to be revolving around, or to be "centered on", a single person. Thus, much contrary to the mediocrity of earth and of humans, brought about by the heliocentric discoveries of Galileo and Copernicus, this finding of a "4-dimensional space-time" for our universe is in fact very comforting to Theistic postulations in general, and even lends very strong support of plausibility to the main tenet of Christianity which holds Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and upon earth." As well, I find the fact this seemingly insignificant earth is found to revolve around the much more massive sun to be reflective of our true spiritual condition. In regards to God's "kingdom of light", are we not to keep in mind our lives are to be guided by the much higher purpose which is tied to our future in God's "kingdom of light"? Are we not to avoid placing too much emphasis on what this world has to offer, since it is so much more insignificant than what heaven has to offer? Sara Groves - You Are The Sun - Music video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foz25j0r2rM Louie Giglio - How Great Is Our God - Part 2 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfNiZrt5FjU Psalm 8: 3-4 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained; What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him?bornagain77
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