BBC cell film pays tribute to design in nature without knowing it

_{Denyse O'Leary

March 11, 2021

Cell biology, Intelligent Design}

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The Cell Secret Immune System – Secret Universe: The Hidden Life Of The Cell – BBC Two

To think it all just happened requires more faith than to think there is an intelligence underlying nature that enables it.

Comments

Crickets from Kairosfocus.Steve Alten2_{March 21, 2021
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Kairosfocus “ SA2, it is you who need to show that in this case the alphabet soup agenda, of proved power and unwisdom, does not have further letters in store such as for example a P or a B. KF“ If P and B have merit, and cause no harm to others, what is the problem? Some slippery-slope arguments are valid. For example, I am sure that at the time of the civil war there were people using the slippery slope argument that if we freed the slaves that we would not have any justification to deny them access to the vote, to integrated schools, to inter-racial marriage, etc. And this argument has come true. But not because every slippery-slope argument is valid, but because these were the actions necessary for a stable and equitable society. ET’s slippery-slope argument that SSM will lead to pedophile marriage and inter-species marriage is just insane fear-mongering. However, if you can provide a rational argument as to how SSM is likely to lead to pedophile and inter-species marriage, I am all ears.Steve Alten2_{March 20, 2021
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Kairosfocus: it is you who need to show that in this case the alphabet soup agenda, of proved power and unwisdom, does not have further letters in store And how, pray tell, can someone show that something is NOT going to happen? You just don't trust people do you? You don't really like Democracy at all because the public can change the rules if they wish.JVL_{March 20, 2021
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SA2, it is you who need to show that in this case the alphabet soup agenda, of proved power and unwisdom, does not have further letters in store such as for example a P or a B. KFkairosfocus_{March 20, 2021
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Kairosfocus “ SA2, I once got into trouble on a slippery slope. They are real world and if there is a ratchet that acts or mostly acts, that is enough. Drop the fallacy that slippery slopes are fallacies.“ I will stop claiming that they aren’t fallacious when people stop using them fallaciously. Let’s just look at ET’s stupid argument that if we recognize same sex marriage that we have no grounds to not also recognize marriage between an adult and a child or marriage between a human and a goat, or with an inanimate object. Are you seriously agreeing with ET that this is a valid argument against same sex marriage?Steve Alten2_{March 20, 2021
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SA2, I once got into trouble on a slippery slope. They are real world and if there is a ratchet that acts or mostly acts, that is enough. Drop the fallacy that slippery slopes are fallacies. The issue is strength of support for an inductive case. C 1930's Churchill was widely dismissed on warning of a slippery slope to round 2 world war. He was right, ask the ghosts of 80 millions. By actual case we therefore know that slippery slopes can be real and that fashionable dismissals backed by a lot of institutional and elite power and opinion shaping can actually contribute to their effectiveness. I see, glancing beyond, that you are riding the fashionable hobby horse and note that the power of an agenda backed by forces powerful enough to entrench their favoured policies in defiance of basic genetics and biology stamped into every cell AND to promote a false impression of genetically determined sexual habituation should not be underestimated. You are also to my certain knowledge already refusing to engage linked references that should give you pause; indeed, you are part of threadjacking to push that agenda. ET has a serious point. KFkairosfocus_{March 20, 2021
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JVL, ET keeps using his ridiculous slippery slope argument. But he doesn’t realize that his brain-numbingly stupid argument can work in both directions. If the government dictates that two consenting adult men can’t marry then it is only a short step to banning inter-racial marriage, interfaith marriage and inter-party marriage. Slippery-slope arguments are just fear-mongering by the prejudiced and bigoted.Steve Alten2_{March 20, 2021
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ET: It can be changed just as the definition of marriage has been changed. You are just prejudiced and reprehensible. You and Kairosfocus: you guys don't really like Democracy do you? You think your morals and ethics should be the legal standard and you can't accept that sometimes you lose a legal argument. You don't trust most people, you think most people are morons and idiots and why should they be able to tell you what you can and can't do. And shut up. I know all about depression you ignorant ass. You hide it well.JVL_{March 20, 2021
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JVL:
It’s already used in legal contexts and is also generally defined; differently for different states and countries but it’s a clear place to anchor the law.
It can be changed just as the definition of marriage has been changed. You are just prejudiced and reprehensible. And shut up. I know all about depression you ignorant ass. You are a prejudiced and reprehensible ass.ET_{March 20, 2021
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ET: Why your arbitrary condition? It's already used in legal contexts and is also generally defined; differently for different states and countries but it's a clear place to anchor the law. You are obviously deeply prejudiced. I am very prejudice towards allowing consenting adult humans to do mostly what they please as long as doesn't harm someone else. And your criteria [a]llows for polygamy. Yes it does. Just like in the Old Testament and the Koran. And it is beyond pathetic that those who are pro-choice when it comes to abortion have an issue with people who choose to abort their own lives. We don’t need these easily depressed people growing up and getting weaponized. That’s has mass shootings happen. If an adult chooses to end their own life I have much less of an issue. I'm not saying I would encourage it but I prefer to let adults make their own choices; again, with the proviso, that it doesn't hurt someone else. Arguably suicide does harm others so it's not an easy thing to deal with. I would prefer to be in a world where abortion was not sought out by women. I would not make that choice myself. But I've always been careful. And I think any woman who wants a legal abortion should be counselled to make sure that really is the only way forward. Another tricky issue. I'm not terribly happy with any of the solutions arrived at by most modern democracies but I can live with the laws where I live. We don’t need these easily depressed people growing up and getting weaponized. That’s has (sic) mass shootings happen. You know nothing about depression, how debilitating it can be, how many people suffer from it at times in their lives. Almost all depressed people do not grab a gun and shoot a lot of people. But you don't really care, you're just prejudiced.JVL_{March 20, 2021
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Anyone who thinks that abortions are OK is a reprehensible and ignorant human being.ET_{March 20, 2021
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And it is beyond pathetic that those who are pro-choice when it comes to abortion have an issue with people who choose to abort their own lives. We don’t need these easily depressed people growing up and getting weaponized. That’s has mass shootings happen. Bleeding hearts and their uncontrolled emotions are the problem. If suicide is a problem then abortion is an even bigger problem. But losers like JVL and Acratia sockpuppet are to dim to grasp that fact.ET_{March 20, 2021
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JVL “ Your attitude towards your fellow human beings who are ostracised and marginalised because of prejudice and fear is appalling.” This has got to be the understatement of the year. Teen suicide is a huge problem, and the rate of gay teens committing suicide is significantly higher than that of heterosexual teens. Anyone who thinks this is OK is just a homophobic reprehensible human being.Steve Alten2_{March 20, 2021
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Again, JVL totally misses the point with respect to Stonehenge. Everything that we know about Stonehenge came from centuries of research. And not one thing that we know relied on first knowing the method of construction, the reason nor the exact people. And he doesn't even understand what that means
’ve told you so many times . . . I guess you have memory problems: limit it to CONSENTING ADULTS.
Why your arbitrary condition? You are obviously deeply prejudiced. And your criteria llows for polygamy.
Your attitude towards your fellow human beings who are ostracised and marginalised because of prejudice and fear is appalling.
Your bullshit accusations just prove that you are a coward who is unable to think. And it is beyond pathetic that those who are pro-choice when it comes to abortion have an issue with people who choose to abort their own lives. We don’t need these easily depressed people growing up and getting weaponized. That’s has mass shootings happen.ET_{March 20, 2021
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ET: Again, JVL totally misses the point with respect to Stonehenge. Everything that we know about Stonehenge came from centuries of research. And not one thing that we know relied on first knowing the method of construction, the reason nor the exact people. We know that human beings around at the time built Stonehenge because we did a lot more than just study the design. We looked around for other evidence and data, something that no one in the ID community is doing. Excavations have been carried out, not only at Stonehenge itself but at other close locations and other standing stone circles in the British Isles. Plus, as there is zero evidence of other highly intelligent beings around at the time we can rule out that it was someone/something other than human beings. Finding some of the tools they used helps seal the deal. The genetic material is a real bonus. Again, why allow same-sex marriage and deny all other possible types of marriage? Are you prejudice? I've told you so many times . . . I guess you have memory problems: limit it to CONSENTING ADULTS. Just as is done with many other legal contracts and issues. And it is beyond pathetic that those who are pro-choice when it comes to abortion have an issue with people who choose to abort their own lives. We don’t need these easily depressed people growing up and getting weaponized. That’s has mass shootings happen. Your attitude towards your fellow human beings who are ostracised and marginalised because of prejudice and fear is appalling.JVL_{March 20, 2021
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JVL, you are overlooking factual adequacy, as Newton emphasised in his rules. A claimed causal explanation for a phenomenon needs to be confirmed per observation as actually adequate. We both know that there are no cases of functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information [FSCO/I] coming about by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity at or beyond 500 - 1,000 bits. Search challenge on sol system or observed cosmos scale search resources across 10^17 or so s readily shows why. The only empirically warranted causal explanation for FSCO/I is intelligent design. That cells include algorithmic string data structures and codes so goal-directed procedures and language, underscores the point. That's why I no longer take seriously the sorts of objections and distractions you exemplify. For brutally simple example, incinerators exist, including a giant one 90 mn miles away so where are the wastes, where are the broken tools is irrelevant. The direct evidence warrants a strong causal inference to a known capable cause. That that may lead where you are uncomfortable may be psychologically interesting but such is of no material import. KF PS: The massive, multifaceted evidence of a fine tuned cosmos full of FSCO/I, is itself extra-terrestrial and points to design of a cosmos fitted out for C-chem, aqueous medium, cell based life.kairosfocus_{March 20, 2021
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JVL: No extra-terrestrial evidence anywhere. None. Zip. De nada. According to ID proponents the explanation requiring the fewest assumptions (and the one that matches the available evidence) is the best. Um, well, we do have coded information in the DNA/ribosome replicator... the very sort of thing that SETI is looking for. Damn hard to explain without intent behind it. (The search space for functional protein abiogenesis is astonishing.) Is it a knock-down argument logically? No. Nothing could ever be, if you want to brazen it out. But the odds are stupendous. Guilty beyond any reasonable doubt (unless you have a biased prior commitment of some sort, which is why jurors get tossed from juries.) So at least squarely face up to that.Concealed Citizen_{March 19, 2021
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And it is beyond pathetic that those who are pro-choice when it comes to abortion have an issue with people who choose to abort their own lives. We don't need these easily depressed people growing up and getting weaponized. That's has mass shootings happen.ET_{March 19, 2021
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JVL:
Your stated reasons (it’s unnatural, it should be reserved for procreating couples) are ludicrous.
Cuz you say so? Really? There is absolutely no reason to get married if you aren't going to have and raise children. All your straw-grasping complaints can be easily taken care of. Again, why allow same-sex marriage and deny all other possible types of marriage? Are you prejudice?ET_{March 19, 2021
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If this thread is depressing you, please don't commit suicide over it.Concealed Citizen_{March 19, 2021
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Again, JVL totally misses the point with respect to Stonehenge. Everything that we know about Stonehenge came from centuries of research. And not one thing that we know relied on first knowing the method of construction, the reason nor the exact people.ET_{March 19, 2021
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Then there's this:
Large quantities of sarsen and bluestone waste material, as well as broken hammerstones, have been found in the field to the north of Stonehenge, where the stones were worked into shape. Sarsen and flint hammerstones in various sizes have been found at Stonehenge. The larger ones would have been used to roughly flake and chip the stone, and the smaller ones to finish and smooth the surfaces. Analysis of a recent laser survey of the stones has revealed the different stoneworking methods used, and has shown that some parts of the monument were more carefully finished than others. In particular, the north-east side and the inner faces of the central trilithons were finely dressed.
From: https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stonehenge/history-and-stories/building-stonehenge/JVL_{March 19, 2021
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And there's this:
Archaeologists have discovered the long-lost prehistoric tools used to quarry the original standing stones from the earliest stone-built phase of Stonehenge.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stonehenge-archaeology-prehistoric-tools-stones-wales-wiltshire-a8786356.html
The discovery of the stone quarrying tools, which date to the approximate time of the construction of the first stone phase of the monument (c 2900BC), proves beyond reasonable doubt for the first time that Neolithic people quarried the Welsh stones that ended up being used to build the world’s most famous prehistoric temple.
JVL_{March 19, 2021
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Andrew "Then please don’t resort to spurious correlations." All I was doing is reporting facts. Homosexual teen suicide rates have gone down in states and countries that allow same sex marriage and have made concerted efforts to "normalize" same-sex attraction. This may be causal but I suspect it is due to a combination of circumstances. It is true that there has been a significant increase in the societal acceptance of homosexuality, but there has also been a societal trend towards punishing bullying. But for teens, homosexual kids were often the victims of bullying. Where I live the government mandated that schools must allow student led gay-straight alliances, even in catholic schools. The main purpose of these was to have gay and straight kids interact positively with each other in a social setting. Within a few years of their implementation suicide attempts by homosexual teens dropped by almost 50%.Steve Alten2_{March 19, 2021
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From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge
The first monument consisted of a circular bank and ditch enclosure made of Late Cretaceous (Santonian Age) Seaford Chalk, measuring about 360 feet (110 m) in diameter, with a large entrance to the north east and a smaller one to the south. It stood in open grassland on a slightly sloping spot.[25] The builders placed the bones of deer and oxen in the bottom of the ditch, as well as some worked flint tools. The bones were considerably older than the antler picks used to dig the ditch, and the people who buried them had looked after them for some time prior to burial.

In 2013 a team of archaeologists, led by Mike Parker Pearson, excavated more than 50,000 cremated bone fragments, from 63 individuals, buried at Stonehenge.[3][4] These remains had originally been buried individually in the Aubrey holes, exhumed during a previous excavation conducted by William Hawley in 1920, been considered unimportant by him, and subsequently re-interred together in one hole, Aubrey Hole 7, in 1935.[28] Physical and chemical analysis of the remains has shown that the cremated were almost equally men and women, and included some children.

At least twenty-five of the Aubrey Holes are known to have contained later, intrusive, cremation burials dating to the two centuries after the monument's inception. It seems that whatever the holes' initial function, it changed to become a funerary one during Phase two. Thirty further cremations were placed in the enclosure's ditch and at other points within the monument, mostly in the eastern half. Stonehenge is therefore interpreted as functioning as an enclosed cremation cemetery at this time, the earliest known cremation cemetery in the British Isles. Fragments of unburnt human bone have also been found in the ditch-fill. Dating evidence is provided by the late Neolithic grooved ware pottery that has been found in connection with the features from this phase.

Researchers studying DNA extracted from Neolithic human remains across Britain determined that the ancestors of the people who built Stonehenge were farmers who came from the Eastern Mediterranean, traveling west from there. DNA studies indicate that they had a predominantly Aegean ancestry, although their agricultural techniques seem to have come originally from Anatolia. These Aegean farmers then moved to Iberia before heading north, reaching Britain in about 4,000 BC.
No extra-terrestrial evidence anywhere. None. Zip. De nada. According to ID proponents the explanation requiring the fewest assumptions (and the one that matches the available evidence) is the best. Humans designed and built Stonehenge. That's the only possible conclusion. At this time. IF you can find any evidence, at all, that there were non-human intelligent agents around at the time then it will be examined and considered. Do you have any such evidence? PS This is just some of the information from one article on one of the many stone circles in the British Isles. And no where has any evidence turned up indicating no non-humans capable of making the circles were present. Nothing. You've got absolutely no reason to postulate that non-humans created Stonehenge.JVL_{March 19, 2021
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ET: I didn’t find any tools, living quarters, trash or excrement near the new house in the woods. We don't find any evidence of extraterrestrials anywhere. Zip, nada, nothing. WRONG. They are random, period. Mutations are supposed to be random, period. Random as in accidents, errors and mistakes. Then these accidents, errors and mistakes accumulate, differentially. Some regions have higher mutation rates so the statement that they are random with respect to fitness is an important distinction. That isn’t an argument. That is just your desperate stupidity. The point is that fitness is partially judged by situation and when you ostracise and marginalise people you can make them 'less fit' socially, legally and mentally. And another non-argument. It’s as if you are proud to be a coward. It's not my fault that you just automatically decry and reject any opinion which differs from yours when you clearly are not aware of all the work and data available. Wow. You are a desperate fool. What I said is not making fun of teen suicides. And neither you nor the other cowardly TARD can show otherwise. As I said, your attitude is akin to that held by racists in the 50s and 60s: separate but equal. The trouble is things were never equal. And why do you want things to be separate in the first place? That's prejudice. In this case against homosexuals. You don't have any legal stance to support your notion that same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry and you think they can do what they need by jumping through a lot of hoops instead. You think that's separate but equal. Why do you care so much? What harm does it do to let same-sex couples marry? You can't point to any harm that would cause. It's your own prejudice that underlies your view. You are a known pathological liar and deceiver. Now you are trying to tell me what I think. You are a lowlife punk. You are beyond pathetic. You cannot come up with a legal or moral reason why same-sex couples shouldn't be allowed to marry. Your stated reasons (it's unnatural, it should be reserved for procreating couples) are ludicrous. You're prejudice. I don't know why, you say you're not religious but when you say it's unnatural that sure sounds like a: we're not designed for that kind of thing argument. And the procreation thing is just dumb. Marriage has never, ever been legally defined that way ever. Some jerks like Henry VIII used that kind of reason for wanting their marriages annulled because he wanted to jump into bed with another woman but the church refused to recognise that argument.JVL_{March 19, 2021
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JVL:
No tools, no signs of living quarters, no trash, no excrement, nada, nothing.
I didn't find any tools, living quarters, trash or excrement near the new house in the woods.
They are random with respect to fitness, it’s an important distinction.
WRONG. They are random, period. Mutations are supposed to be random, period. Random as in accidents, errors and mistakes. Then these accidents, errors and mistakes accumulate, differentially. YOUR ignorance is not an argument.
If you lived in the bad part of Harlem you might be considered less fit.
That isn't an argument. That is just your desperate stupidity.
Gee, I didn’t know you’ve read all the excavation reports from Stonehenge and all the other stone circles in the British Isles and Brittany.
And another non-argument. It's as if you are proud to be a coward.
Well, how would you interpret your comment: Their minds are that feeble, eh? They should just kill themselves and rid the world of their inherent weaknesses. if it was directed at your daughter?
Wow. You are a desperate fool. What I said is not making fun of teen suicides. And neither you nor the other cowardly TARD can show otherwise.
You engender an attitude of dismissal and unacceptance.
You are a known pathological liar and deceiver. Now you are trying to tell me what I think. You are a lowlife punk. You are beyond pathetic.ET_{March 19, 2021
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"I find your attitude and beliefs contemptible." JVL, And I find yours dysfunctional, vaporous, and immature. ;) Andrewasauber_{March 19, 2021
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Asauber: The rest of your comment is not worth responding to. That's okay, I find your attitude and beliefs contemptible.JVL_{March 19, 2021
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ET: You don’t know what such evidence would look like. No tools, no signs of living quarters, no trash, no excrement, nada, nothing. It was people. I understand what random with respect to fitness means. I also understand that only fools use that saying. Mutations are supposed to be random, period. Random as in accidents, errors and mistakes. Then these accidents, errors and mistakes accumulate, differentially. They are random with respect to fitness, it's an important distinction. One you don't get clearly. Scientists have. Anyone who understands the concept would,. If you lived in the bad part of Harlem you might be considered less fit. Liar. No one has found and quarrying tools. No one has found the transport tools. Gee, I didn't know you've read all the excavation reports from Stonehenge and all the other stone circles in the British Isles and Brittany. My mistake. It really takes a lying loser to say I was making fun of teen suicide. Well, how would you interpret your comment: Their minds are that feeble, eh? They should just kill themselves and rid the world of their inherent weaknesses. if it was directed at your daughter? I would tell people to stuff it and continue to do as I please as long as it didn’t break any laws nor harm anyone. That people cannot do that and instead take their own lives is on them. Stop blaming others as that is just childish. You engender an attitude of dismissal and unacceptance. You show a lack of understanding and support for people whose practices you find weird and unnatural. Instead of just saying: sure, let 'em get married, who cares, it doesn't hurt anyone you spend hours and hours and hours coming up with reasons why they shouldn't be allowed to get married. You care a lot that they should be denied certain rights. Is that any different from making black people sit in the back of the bus or stopping them from using the same drinking fountain or having to go to different schools?JVL_{March 19, 2021
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