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Chesterton on “Immoral” Design

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 In a previous post a commentor attacked design on moral grounds using this example:  “Would you conclude that the designer was sadistic for creating insects that kill one another in the mating process?” 

Of course, at one level this attack has been answered again and again.  In this blog’s “arguments that have been defeated over and over” section we say:

This [argument] is really odd as it is basically a religious argument being made against Intelligent Design. The proponent of this argument is making a faith based assertion that God is perfect and hence incapable of bad design. ID makes no claim that the source of complexity is a perfect God incapable of imperfection [or, in the commenter’s example, sadism].

Nevertheless, this discussion put me in mind of the following passage from Chesterton’s Orthodoxy:

But nature does not say that cats are more valuable than mice; nature makes no remark on the subject. She does not even say that the cat is enviable or the mouse pitiable. We think the cat superior because we have (or most of us have) a particular philosophy to the effect that life is better than death. But if the mouse were a German pessimist mouse, he might not think that the cat had beaten him at all. He might think he had beaten the cat by getting to the grave first. Or he might feel that he had actually inflicted frightful punishment on the cat by keeping him alive. Just as a microbe might feel proud of spreading a pestilence, so the pessimistic mouse might exult to think that he was renewing in the cat the torture of conscious existence.

I have always found the idea of a “Schopenhauer mouse” very amusing, but Chesterton’s larger point is germane to our discussion.  The materialist really has no ground on which to say life is better than death (or sadism is better than charity) other than pure sentiment.  Moreover, it is truly ironic for a materialist to attack a scientific project in terms of a morality they must assert has no objective basis.

Comments
My simple answer to this kind of "moral" issue is: Jesus himself eats fish. So, eating fish in itself, for nutrition or survival or taste or reproductive energy, is not evil. I used to tell my vegetarian relatives this, because they think eating animals is evil from Buddhist point of view. Of course, this is no science. Darwinism once again has proven itself to be a religion, for bringing up moral issue to support their anti-design argument. Read, Darwinism The Religion https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/toronto-journalists-further-correspondence-with-the-darwin-fans/#comment-138124 https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/toronto-journalists-further-correspondence-with-the-darwin-fans/#comment-138205MatthewTan
October 5, 2007
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Killing is not necessarily evil. Did not Jesus eat meat and fish? "In Him was there no sin."idnet.com.au
October 4, 2007
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I have been looking at these kind of anti-design arguments for some time and analyzed the rhetoric used, with my limited knowledge. Something that stand out is that anthropomorphism might be the key. Anyone looking at mainstream nature media will find commentary that relate all in nature to human behavior. The kinds of anthropomorphism should be analyzed in more detail, but the general conclusion would be that it carries very little relevance to the phenomenon it describes or reality in general. I would suggest a point of attack on this kind of materialist thinking would be to break down the internalist approach to epistemology which largely disregard the full set of the external epistemic environment. It is arbitrary and counter science. In the age of the enlightenment it was the Christian thinkers that boldly moved towards rational thinking outside the dogma of the Church, but becoming fixated on the "Self" was just as foolish. This I like to describe in terms of Descarte's mistake in asserting that: "I think therefore I am" because it fixated on the "I" which cannot be assumed absolute. Descarte should have said: "There is a lot of thinking going on" and work his epistemology from that externalist basis.mullerpr
October 4, 2007
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Actually, the instance of a "Perverted" Mutation would result in a "Corrupted" Design. The enmity arises when sin influences the design of the righteous Designer.John Kelly
October 4, 2007
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Tell the commentor that there is no "Immoral" Design and that they have it confused with a rarely successful "Perverted" Mutation. If the commentor is male, ask him if he thinks it would be benefical to his species if he was eaten the first time he copulated. :D This would be a great way to promote abstinence among the youth!John Kelly
October 4, 2007
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One could also make the argument that a world where there was no death would defy logic, like a square circle, for instance. Living things need energy to survive, and that energy must come from somewhere. It may be necessary for the designer to develop a world based on this principle. IOW, the circle of life might be a necessary element to our world. Just as a designed can not create a square circle, the designer could not create a world devoid of death or killing for nourishment.professorsmith
October 4, 2007
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Good rebuttal. I see too many objections that are really just cases of "God made in man's image." Or even a designer made in man's image. Indeed, it irks me when a materialist has a morally loaded argument; it's inherently contradictory.Berceuse
October 4, 2007
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