Congratulations to New BioLogos President

_{Jonathan Bartlett

January 29, 2013

Intelligent Design}

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I just wanted to extend my congratulations to Deborah Haarsma, the new president of BioLogos! I hope that in the coming years, whether BioLogos embraces Intelligent Design or not, they can at least come to understand better the positions we hold.

I have not read Dr. Haarsma’s book on creation/evolution/intelligent design, but I would be interested to hear from people who have.

Anyway, many congratulations, and I hope the BioLogos Foundation’s search for truth is effective and fruitful.

Comments

Gregory @14: Please give a succinct definition of what you understand to be "evolution." Then we'll tell you what we think of it. Incidentally, you seem so intent on finding a statement or a quote, anything, that can be read, or understood, or taken out of context, or interpreted in a hyper-technical sense, to drive your own personal Wedge into intelligent design, that you often miss the larger point of discussions. "Evolution" is a supremely slippery term, with many possible definitions, so most of us don't bother getting into a long definition every time the word is used. Usually the context of the discussion thread adequately informs that meaning ascribed, but you seem sometimes unable or unwilling to appreciate any larger context. Also, there is a bit of a pot-kettle problem, as I note that you also failed to define "evolution" in your comment #14, for example. So, let the definitional games begin: What do you mean by "evolution." Then I'll tell you what my view of it is.Eric Anderson_{February 1, 2013
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Joe: Language, please. KFkairosfocus_{February 1, 2013
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Hi Gregory, You seem to like to talk from your arse. Is that like comfort food to you? Just curious.Joe_{February 1, 2013
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So you obviously now see, StephenB, in response to #12, what you're up against in trying to propogate the view that Big-ID/DI is "not against evolution," right? "Jesus Saves. Evolution Doesn’t." Yeah, right, StephenB, you're hanging-out with people who oppose you! The creationists (proud and loud and unashamed) who are sustained by American religious conservatives that fund the quasi-science of Big-ID (see the balance sheets at DI) remain in your ever-present rear-view mirror. You are not a YEC, StephenB, but nevertheless seem willing to happily break BIG-ID ideological bread with YECs with whom you disagree. The only thing you can do as an IDist is to embrace a 'little-big-tent' which you (as a Catholic Christian) actually needn't confidently defend. So many Catholics have already seen through the ideology that is being propogated by 'natural-science-only' Big-IDism. It would surprise me if you would still defend Big-IDism, just because of some kind of a fetish with a 19th c. 'Darwin-from-Down' scholar in the U.K. I have outgrown Charles R. Darwin, but it doesn't seem like anyone in the IDM is prepared to even recognise how this is possible or preferred! They seem to want natural-science-only reductionism instead; they want Big-ID scientism. If they didn't then they would elevate the work of Steve Fuller, the most insightful 'ID/id' advocate of the current era. People speak in your name here, StephenB, as IDists, denying that 'evolution' has any theory-value at all! Just open your eyes if you are so far blind to this. And yet you willingly allow them to represent you. That position, however, is obviously unworthy of serious consideration; it is uneducated, it is primitive. It is as if you would support the ignorance of (some) evangelical Protestants that claim 'science is from the devil' because of some feud you have with the global Catholic acceptance of Evolutionary Creation. There is no need to do that. People holding leadership positions in the little-big-tent (Chapman, Meyer, West, et al.) openly welcome creationist supporters as comrades because they promote Big-ID. This is both an obvious and necessary path of the IDM. Otoh, BioLogos actually has the courage of the Catholic Church to reject 'creationists' and disallow them to spread their propaganda as if people should believe it. Do you not stand with the Catholic Church in opposing YECism and in educating young believers?Gregory_{February 1, 2013
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What evolutionary theories, Gregory? The "theory" of evolution is too vague to be a theory. Are there others? And who is for these "theories" and why? Please be specific.Joe_{February 1, 2013
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"the Discovery Institute has no stance against evolution and agrees that it can be compatible with faith." - StephenB "Personally, I don’t think evolution passes either the Lemon Test or the Smell Test! Or the Laugh Test." - Eric Anderson Gee, I wonder why anyone would think that IDists are against evolutionary theories?! That's a really tough, almost impossible notion to imagine ;)Gregory_{February 1, 2013
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bornagain77, thanks very much for the link. Very inspiring.StephenB_{January 30, 2013
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StephenB, I saw this short clip on Mother Teresa the other day, about a small miracle of the sort that use to 'follow her around' and thought you might like to look at it: Ignorance Isn't Bliss: What Every College Student Should Know About Religion - Mary Poplin at Reed - video (9:45 minute mark) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gUogbTKbVg&feature=player_detailpage#t=579s Here's the entire documentary (I haven't watched the whole video yet though): Mother Teresa 1986 ( A.J.B. ) FILM - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnhiGtCBc10bornagain77_{January 29, 2013
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If "it just happened, that's all" doesn't require "faith," I don't know what would.Mung_{January 29, 2013
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Gregory
Jeffrey Schloss, new Senior BioLogos scholar, formerly associated with DI but now confident anti-IDist.....
Schloss stated that he left the Discovery Institute because, among other things, he disagreed strongly with the institute’s stance against evolution. As he put it, “I think evolutionary theory is compatible with faith.” That’s all well and good except for the fact that the Discovery Institute has no stance against evolution and agrees that it can be compatible with faith. Like most philosophically challenged TEs, Schloss doesn’t make the distinction between ID-compatible evolution, which is a purposeful maturation process, and anti-ID, Darwinian evolution, which is not.StephenB_{January 29, 2013
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Biologos doesn't embrace me! I think my crime was saying that the modern world was the result of a higher moral and intellectual status of the English and Scottish people because of having more and very influenced by the Puritan/Evangelical Protestant believers within them. It was either a evil idea or so dumb wrong as to lose me posting rights. By the way I say it was men way ahead the women but don't tell Deborah.!Robert Byers_{January 29, 2013
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Gregory:
You folks (distinguishing us, meaning that I’m neither an IDist nor a TE/EC) are in dire need of a mediator...
BioLogos:
Dr. Schloss is excited by the opportunity to build bridges of dialogue on the relationship between science and faith, in light of the invitation to “worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth.”
Mung_{January 29, 2013
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Gregory - I couldn't quite make out what your rant was about. But, in short, yes, I will heartily congratulate Jeffrey Schloss on his new post. Congratulations, Dr. Schloss, on your new position as Senior Scholar at BioLogos!johnnyb_{January 29, 2013
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OT: Anton Zeilinger's group is at it again, pushing the edge of the envelope as to quantum experimentation: Of Einstein and entanglement: Quantum erasure deconstructs wave-particle duality - January 29, 2013 Excerpt: While previous quantum eraser experiments made the erasure choice before or (in delayed-choice experiments) after the interference – thereby allowing communications between erasure and interference in the two systems, respectively – scientists in Prof. Anton Zeilinger's group at the Austrian Academy of Sciences and the University of Vienna recently reported a quantum eraser experiment in which they prevented this communications possibility by enforcing Einstein locality. They accomplished this using hybrid path-polarization entangled photon pairs distributed over an optical fiber link of 55 meters in one experiment and over a free-space link of 144 kilometers in another. Choosing the polarization measurement for one photon decided whether its entangled partner followed a definite path as a particle, or whether this path-information information was erased and wave-like interference appeared. They concluded that since the two entangled systems are causally disconnected in terms of the erasure choice, wave-particle duality is an irreducible feature of quantum systems with no naïve realistic explanation). The world view that a photon always behaves either definitely as a wave or definitely as a particle would require faster-than-light communication, and should therefore be abandoned as a description of quantum behavior. http://phys.org/news/2013-01-einstein-entanglement-quantum-erasure-deconstructs.html Put more simply, a photon is not a self existent entity but is always dependent on a 'non-local', beyond space and time, cause to explain its continued existence within space-time. i.e. God 'sustains' the universe!bornagain77_{January 29, 2013
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From amazon:
When it comes to the history of the universe, many believe that science and faith are mutually exclusive. But in this revised version of Origins, physics professors Loren and Deborah Haarsma explore what God's Word and God's world teach us about creation, evolution, and intelligent design.
GASP! small i small d intelligent design? Doesn't this person know any better? You better get right on that Gregory.Mung_{January 29, 2013
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Glad to see your unevolved/'extended' congratulation, johnnyb to D. Haarsma at BioLogos. L. Haarsma is of course seated right beside her, unrepentant 'evolutionist' as he is. I notice you capitalise (Big-ID) 'Intelligent Design.' This puts you at odds with Timaeus' recent chosen flip-flop language backing small-id 'intelligent design' and refusing to distinguish any meaningful difference between Big-ID 'Intelligent Design' and small-id 'intelligent design'. That's a simple philological observation (read: empirical fact of communication). As a graduate of DI's summer program and former poster at BioLogos, it is clear that BioLogos *will not* ever 'embrace Intelligent Design' theory, there's not a chance of this. Likwise, however, Big-ID theory *will not* ever 'embrace theistic evolution or evolutionary creation' there's not a chance of this, following in P. Johnson's footsteps. You folks (distinguishing us, meaning that I'm neither an IDist nor a TE/EC) are in dire need of a mediator, since the *will not* is about people's choices and community/group pressures! What is most badly needed (after almost 2 decades of -ism concept duo i/I + d/D) is an alternative to Big-ID/small-id vs. theistic evolution/evolutionary creation, which no one within the IDM has thus far offered, just as no one among TE/ECs who rejects the loudly and brazenly proclaimed scientificity of Big-ID has yet put on the table. Loren Haarsma certainly doesn't have a satisfactory answer for this dilemma. And Deborah is lost and found in the stars and physical matter with 'only/ultimately' theology as a 'quasi-humanising' effort. Neo-BioLogos and Big-ID will likely revert to outdated '(neo)Darwinism'-banter again before long. Let us hope Deborah has something different in her bag of EC tricks. Jeffrey Schloss, new Senior BioLogos scholar, formerly associated with DI but now confident anti-IDist (like Ryland, Beckwith and Collins), is certainly full of provocations...! Will you 'extend' your hand in congratulation to Schloss too, johnnyb?Gregory_{January 29, 2013
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Second EditionMung_{January 29, 2013
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