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Contemplating the Undead

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Origin of Life theories attempt to account for the transition from prebiotic matter to biotic matter.  Beginning with Darwin’s warm little pond and continuing through the present day, scientists have tried to explain how this intuitively unlikely jump could have been made.  In his wonderful article On the Origins of Life (here), David Berlinski summarizes some of the more important assumptions scientists must make in trying to resolve this weighty question:

“First, that the pre-biotic atmosphere was chemically reductive; second, that nature found a way to synthesize cytosine; third, that nature also found a way to synthesize ribose; fourth, that nature found the means to assemble nucleotides into polynucleotides; fifth, that nature discovered a self-replicating molecule; and sixth, that having done all that, nature promoted a self-replicating molecule into a full system of coded chemistry.”

As I was contemplating this issue, something occurred to me.  Why are scientists taking on such a hard job up front?  Why not start with an easier problem and gradually increase complexity.  Instead of starting from nothing and trying to work forward to a full-blown living being, why don’t they start with “almost everything” and work their way backwards?

This is what I mean.  Some enterprising researcher eager for a trip to Oslo should take the very simplest single-celled critter he can find and bump it off.  Then he can take the recently bumped off critter and zap it with electricity or something and make it come back to life.  The critter was, by definition, not alive, so in a sense we can call it prebiotic matter.  But after the zapping stage of the experiment, the critter will be alive (or at least undead).  This will prove that living things can come from non-living matter.

This experiment should be easy.  There are gazillions of very simple single-celled critters running around who, I am certain, would be honored to help advance our understanding of science.  Some of them may even be publicity hounds and therefore eager to be the subject of a Nobel prize winning experiment.  Not even PETA would object to bumping off a couple of these wee beasties in the interest of earth-shattering scientific progress.

On the other hand, it seems like this experiment would involve a huge risk for metaphysical materialists.  In my experiment the non-living matter has every single building block of life readily to hand.  Unlike present origin of life research, no one has to conjure up any critical ingredients through convenient assumptions.  The only thing that is missing is the mysterious “anima” of living things.  But if the researcher can’t make this stuff come alive (or undead) under such ideal conditions, isn’t the attempt to come up with a plausible origin of life scenario under far less propitious circumstances utterly doomed to failure?

I’m sure I’m not the first person who has thought of this.  What say our intrepid readers?

Comments
Chris Hyland: “It really depends what you mean by ‘bump off’. In a single cell, I suspect by most definitions the cells systems would have been damaged beyond repair.” That is my point. If we cannot even “repair” the very simplest dead singled celled critter, what hope do we have of ever demonstrating that one sprang up fully formed like Athena from Zeus’s head? “Several labs have tried to knock out as many genes as they can in simple organisms to find the ‘minimum gene number’. Which always seemed slightly suspect to me as it gives the false impression that what they came up with is some kind of minimum possibility for a living thing.” Why is this suspect to you. It demonstrates something important to me.BarryA
September 14, 2006
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Reciprocating Bill: “Now describe an analogous experiment (a thought experiment will do ) that would present a risk for Intelligent Design.” There are lots of experiments that would falsify ID. Any experiment that demonstrated, for example, a plausible mechanism for a abiogenesis. By plausible I mean, well, plausible. Wishful speculations like those in Houdin’s comment don’t count. Any experiment that shows that information (I would be willing to settle for fairly simple information – you don’t have to demonstrate anything remotely as complex as that contained in the simplest bacterium) can be generated by blind natural forces would falsify ID. Any experiment that shows that an irreducible complex organic system could be constructed by blind natural forces would falsify ID (again, wishful speculations don’t count).BarryA
September 14, 2006
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Hawks again: “SF often, quite convincingly, demonstrate that a sufficiently advanced robot is not all that different from a human being” I’m not sure what you mean by “demonstrates.” If you mean it in the sense of a confirmed empirical test, your statement is simply false. If you mean that SF writers can imagine robots that are no different from humans, I agree SF writers do imagine that. Why should I care what they can imagine. I can imagine green elephants with yellow polka dots, but I’m not going to go looking for one. On my first point. Wait a minute. I forgot that evolutionary biology is the only field of science where the imagination of the researcher counts as evidence. Never mind then.BarryA
September 14, 2006
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Hawks: “They got down to a minimal of roughly 250 required genes, I seem to remember. This tells us nothing about abiogenesis, however, since you would be a fool to suggest that such a creature could arise from nowhere (by purely natural mechanisms, anyway).” I thought it was wonderful that you put a question mark after the word “thoughts.” Are you drawing attention to the fact that, since consciousness is an illusion, the linguist category of “thought” might not pick out any real world phenomenon? Thanks for the reference to the research. But don’t you see that this demonstrates my point? “there is no chance that such a creature could arise from nowhere.” Precisely.BarryA
September 14, 2006
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To Jerry and gpuccio: “I think that, in some way, the statement that “biological building blocks put together with a certain kind of complexity generate life” is very similar to the fundamental belief of Strong AI theory, that “simpler blocks of software put together with a certain kind of complexity generate consciousness” When Jerry first started talking about AI, I responded that it was a different from the topic under consideration. I am now not so sure. Materialist understand that if their metaphysical presuppositions are correct then at least two things follows: 1. A living thing, including a man, cannot be anything more than a complicated organic machine, and the first such machine was somehow able to assemble itself from its constituent parts through blind natural forces. 2. Human intelligence must be reducible to the physical properties of the brain, which is nothing more than an organic computer (someone has called it “smart meat”), and consciousness is an illusion. The fact that that neither proposition appears to be remotely tenable never seems to cause them to question their metaphysical commitments. That’s the thing about religious faith, it can be hard to shake.BarryA
September 14, 2006
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Great comments so far! Thank you. To SatyaMevaJayate regarding his puppy experiment: 1. PETA would go nuts. 2. Not being an expert I cannot know for sure, but I don’t think we have the technology to freeze something as complex as a puppy and then bring it back to life.BarryA
September 14, 2006
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idnet.com.au: "We only have information on experiments that demonstrate that ID is the best theory currently available that explains the origin of specified complexity like self replicating molecules." Okay, tell us about those experiments.Houdin
September 14, 2006
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Russ: So tell me what ID knows about biogenesis that it didn't get from non-ID scientists. Smidlee, we've had to update out definitions of death. Life is a process - you have all those chemicals and molecular machines cooking away in a cell or a seed. If that process stops, especially if it stops for two thousand years, that organism is dead. It's not metabolizing or changing in any way, it's dead. Seeds shut down their reactions and machines by getting rid of the water they need to function. Now if you soak it in water, you can bring it back to life. All the chemical reactions and molecular machines will start back up again and presto, it's restored to life. BarryA's single celled critter is in a similar situation. If he "bumps it off", he presumably finds some way to stop those chemical reactions and molecular machines. If he then "zaps" it back to life, he has somehow restarted those reactions and molecular machines, just like we restart them in a seed when we soak it in water.Houdin
September 14, 2006
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back and forth bill What unique experimental prediction derived from the ID model, were it to fail to be confirmed, has the potential to put Intelligent Design at risk? A chemical experiment in which a plausible natural environment is simulated and out of it precipitates complex amino and nucleic acid polymers able to self-replicate and where the formulation of the amino acid polymers is digitally encoded on nucleic acid polymers which are read in sequential fashion through a machine composed of amino and nucleic acid polymers which assembles amino acid polymers one acid at a time as per instructions in the nucleic acid polymer and where the output of the machine is component parts that self-assemble into more machines that assist in the replication of the instruction containing nucleic acid polymer. In other words, make a ribosome and a DNA molecule in a proverbial test tube without using intelligently designed assembly procedures or precursors. That, while not falsifying ID per se, makes ID an unnecessary requirement in the origin of organic life as observed on this planet.DaveScot
September 14, 2006
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Comment by Houdin "This makes Berlinski look a little pathetic" You feel Berlinski is pathetic, others feel that pathetic best describes those who believe that "life probably started under the surface of the earth". There is no evidence what so ever to back up the claim that a self creating, self replicating molecule may arise in any experiment that starts even with a soup of all the chemicals needed to perform the miracle. Add all the heat, pressure and time you like and junk in gets junk out. "ALL OF THE INFORMATION ON BIOGENESIS THAT WE DO HAVE COMES FROM THOSE SUPPOSEDLY BLINKERED SCIENTISTS AND NOT ONE IOTA COMES FROM ID THEORISTS" We only have information on experiments that demonstrate that ID is the best theory currently available that explains the origin of specified complexity like self replicating molecules. Life comes from life is a scientifically demonstrated fact that has never been falsified. If life is created by living intelligent agents, this fact will remain.idnet.com.au
September 14, 2006
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Barry, It really depends what you mean by 'bump off'. In a single cell, I suspect by most definitions the cells systems would have been damaged beyond repair. "Instead of starting from nothing and trying to work forward to a full-blown living being, why don’t they start with “almost everything” and work their way backwards?" Several labs have tried to knock out as many genes as they can in simple organisms to find the 'minimum gene number'. Which always seemed slightly suspect to me as it gives the false impression that what they came up with is some kind of minimum possibility for a living thing.Chris Hyland
September 14, 2006
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"BUT ABSOLUTELY ALL OF THE INFORMATION ON BIOGENESIS THAT WE DO HAVE COMES FROM THOSE SUPPOSEDLY BLINKERED SCIENTISTS AND NOT ONE IOTA COMES FROM ID THEORISTS. In other words, ID and science are tied when it comes to knowledge of how life began, but everything that ID does know about biogenesis came from scientists." - Houdin Since Big Science seems to know virtually nothing about abiogenesis, I'm not surprised at your defensiveness ("ID and science"). Maybe your blinkers are preventing you from considering that the tools science is using are inadequate to explain abiogenesis?russ
September 14, 2006
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"On the other hand, it seems like this experiment would involve a huge risk for metaphysical materialists." Good. That's the way science works. Now describe an analogous experiment (a thought experiment will do ) that would present a risk for Intelligent Design. An experiment with the power to support/falsify a positive element of the design hypotheses. Draw upon the moving parts of ID's model of life's origins, e.g. the specific ID hypotheses offered to date regarding the nature of the designer or designers, or perhaps nature of the design process or processes, or the sorts of events that occur as design occurs, or the temporal dimensions of design, or the settings required for design...Anything. You choose. What unique experimental prediction derived from the ID model, were it to fail to be confirmed, has the potential to put Intelligent Design at risk? Again, a thought experiments will do - something that in principle could falsify the design hypothesis. Ok...GO!Reciprocating Bill
September 14, 2006
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Frozen cells and seeds are, definitely, not dead. They are a completely different thing.gpuccio
September 14, 2006
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Barry, I completely agree with you. I am one of the many people who have certainly thought about that "experiment" many times, and I think you put it perfectly. It's really foolish that scientists try to imagine utterly unlikely scenarios to produce the biological building blocks of life through aeons, while nobody has ever been able to assemble a single, simple living cell, even having all the necessary building blocks ready, easily borrowed from already existing living things. I am personally convinced that life is more than mere biological machinery; I think that not all the people in the ID field would agree with that, but anyway the subject should be subject to experimental test. I think that, in some way, the statement that "biological building blocks put together with a certain kind of complexity generate life" is very similar to the fundamental belief of Strong AI theory, that "simpler blocks of software put together with a certain kind of complexity generate consciousness". I believe neither. I am still waiting to see a single artificial cell, or a single conscious software, and I think I may have to wait for a very long time. In the meantime, perhaps we should try to build, and possibly test, alternative theories of life and consciousness.gpuccio
September 14, 2006
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This [b]isn't[/b] true of a frozen embros or seed ; I meant.Smidlee
September 14, 2006
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"Dead cells have been brought back to life, repeatedly. Have you heard of the stem cell debate? Where they remove stem cells from frozen embryos? Those frozen embryos are pretty darn dead! Yet, if you leave the stem cells in place, thaw the embryo and implant it in a womb, it will develop into a perfectly normal baby. When you thaw a cell, it goes from dead to alive." Frozen cells isn't the same as dead cells. Nature itself can preserve (plause) a living cell in seeds. Here how someone else decribe death : " Death occurs when the biochemical reactions of the cell reach their end point, equilibria." This is true of a frozen embryos or a seed.Smidlee
September 14, 2006
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BarryA: "Some enterprising researcher eager for a trip to Oslo should take the very simplest single-celled critter he can find and bump it off. Then he can take the recently bumped off critter and zap it with electricity or something and make it come back to life. The critter was, by definition, not alive, so in a sense we can call it prebiotic matter. But after the zapping stage of the experiment, the critter will be alive (or at least undead). This will prove that living things can come from non-living matter." Dead cells have been brought back to life, repeatedly. Have you heard of the stem cell debate? Where they remove stem cells from frozen embryos? Those frozen embryos are pretty darn dead! Yet, if you leave the stem cells in place, thaw the embryo and implant it in a womb, it will develop into a perfectly normal baby. When you thaw a cell, it goes from dead to alive. Have you heard of the ancient seeds that have sprouted? Look here http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98052&page=1 for a story of some 500 year old seeds that have sprouted. Here http://www.hadassah.org.il/English/Eng_SubNavBar/Departments/Clinics+and+Institutes/Natural+Medicine+Research+Unit/Germinating+Ancient+Seeds/ is a story on some 1200 year and 2000 year old seeds that have sprouted. I would think that if those seeds had been alive for two thousand years, their food would have been pretty well gone by now, right? And let's not forget bacteria, which can form cysts and go into suspended animation. Here's an article on the controversial re-animation of some 250 million year old bacteria: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1375505.stm Note that the article talks about the previous record holder, "25-40-million-year-old bacterial spores found in a bee preserved in amber." Your idea of taking something out of a cell and putting it back in and having the cell come back to life also suffers from the problem that other commenters have brought to your attention: you wouldn't be proving anything at all about the start of life because the first living thing was not a modern cell. All the cells that you can find today (unless you break up rocks - more below on this) are the products of nearly four billion years of evolution. A couple of other questions: First: Berlinski's piece is dated 2006, yet he doesn't even mention the idea that life probably started under the surface of the earth? I'm sure he's heard the idea, it's the current rage in science. We now know that living organisms can be found thousands of feet below the surface and these bacteria appear to be VERY ancient. Their chemistry is active at much higher temperatures than terrestrial organisms can stand, higher than the boiling point of water in some cases. (Water boils at a higher temperature when under pressure, such as when it's a mile underground.) And the subterranean environment certainly has a lot more potential for generating biological molecules than a warm little pond being struck by lighting. First, you have much higher temperatures and pressures than on the surface, both of which speed up chemical reactions considerably. In fact, a lot of enzymes that "room temperature" life needs to speed up reactions are unnecessary under hot high pressure. (This makes Berlinski look a little pathetic when he says, "But in the grim inhospitable pre-biotic, no enzymes were available. And so chemists have assigned their task to various inorganic catalysts.") In the real world, all the enyzmes in terrestrial life may have been evolved over a long period of time to allow high temperature life to colonize the cold, low pressure surface. Second, you have a huge number of chemicals in the rocks and constant trickles of water permeating them and dissolving them into a watery solution. You can have any kind of environment you like - reducing, non-reducing, reducing alternating with non-reducing, whatever's your pleasure. Third, you have extraordinary temperature differentials. Chemicals traveling in a trickle of water may pass near a magma pipe one minute, being heated to the boiling point or beyond and then get carried to a much cooler area away from the pipe the next. This heating and cooling mimics what is done in the lab when chemical synthesis is done. Second: Do you or anybody else have any idea what Berlinski is talking about when he writes, "The discovery of a single molecule with the power to initiate replication would hardly be sufficient to establish replication. What template would it replicate against? We need, in other words, at least two, causing the odds of their joint discovery to increase from 1 in 10^60 to 1 in 10^120." Why can't the template be itself? A final observation: NOBODY knows exactly how life began, neither scientists nor ID theorists. BUT ABSOLUTELY ALL OF THE INFORMATION ON BIOGENESIS THAT WE DO HAVE COMES FROM THOSE SUPPOSEDLY BLINKERED SCIENTISTS AND NOT ONE IOTA COMES FROM ID THEORISTS. In other words, ID and science are tied when it comes to knowledge of how life began, but everything that ID does know about biogenesis came from scientists. How this situation came to be might make an interesting topic for discussion on Uncommon Descent.Houdin
September 14, 2006
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BarryA, "I am so weary of the constant barrage of materialist propaganda in the “artificial life is not different in principle from biological life” mode, especially the treacle that gurgles* out of Hollywood. It seems a whole sub-genre has emerged, with movies like “Bicentennial Man,” “AI,” and “I Robot” and several episodes of Star Trek (next gen) leading the way." I love science fiction. I think that one of the reasons I do is because SF often, quite convincingly, demonstrate that a sufficiently advanced robot is not all that different from a human being. Saying that, I did not like "AI". And as for "Bicentennial man" or "I, Robot"... Well.. Phew... What's that smell?Hawks
September 14, 2006
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Cells are in some ways like computers. Computers need to go through a series of sequenced pre programmed operations during boot up after the power is turned on. I suspect that at least a BIOS equivalent would be needed to seed the enlivening of a cell. We would also need to provide a lot of fresh ATP to "jump start" any cell. Is it easy to make a supply of ATP without using the ATPase molecular machine machine? To Berlinski's list I would add the isomer problem. Just like amino acids, sugars have isomers (mirror images). It has been found experimentally that mixing isomers interferes with self replication. The isomer problem hss been overlooked because it is hard to understand, and because it seems that in nature there is sometimes preferential destruction, or preferential creation, of small inequalities in different isomers. Life is very strict. It has absolute isomer preferences.idnet.com.au
September 13, 2006
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Even if they couldn't get the creature back to life AT LEAST they should be able to tell us what is different about the creature. Compare the living one to the dead one and whatever the difference is, that's the key to life.Lurker
September 13, 2006
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I am so weary of the constant barrage of materialist propaganda in the “artificial life is not different in principle from biological life” mode, especially the treacle that gurgles* out of Hollywood. It seems a whole sub-genre has emerged, with movies like “Bicentennial Man,” “AI,” and “I Robot” and several episodes of Star Trek (next gen) leading the way. But this is a slightly different issue from the one in my post. *Denyse, I can’t get the image of sweet sticky goo flowing down a streambed out of my mind; I no longer care if treacle is too viscous to gurgle. I love the image.BarryA
September 13, 2006
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Thoughts? 1. You wouldn't be going to Oslo (being swedish, I consider myself a bit of an authority on the subject of the Nobel prize. Aha you say, but there is a Nobel prize handed out in Oslo. Yeah, I know. But I have a hard time understanding why this sort of research would win you a Nobel peace prize. Sorry, just ranting). 2. Experiments along similar (in a loose sense) sense have been performed (ie going backwards instead of forwards). Some have started with the organism that has the smallest number of genes known (Mycoplasma genitalium, methinks) and eliminated genes one by one until the organism is no longer capable of reproducing. They got down to a minimal of roughly 250 required genes, I seem to remember. This tells us nothing about abiogenesis, however, since you would be a fool to suggest that such a creature could arise from nowhere (by purely natural mechanisms, anyway). 3. "Bumping off" the simplest organism just to "resuscitate" it would, again, tell us nothing about abiogenesis (not a purely "natural" one anyway). Your suggestion here suffers from the same problem as #2 above. Ie, there is no chance that such a creature could arise from nowhere.Hawks
September 13, 2006
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Barry, From what I understand, there are several programs underway now to create artificial life. I don't know of any in particular but there was an article earlier this year by a prominent bio ethicist named Glenn McGee in a magazine called The Scientist on the development of artificial cells. In it he also slams Intelligent Design but gets it wrong about what ID is all about. The field is called synthetic biology. There is also an audio about this at but it takes awhile to hear McGee as it is at the end. You should hear the nonsense that one of the most prominent bioethicist in the country used to describe ID. The link is http://images.the-scientist.com/podcast/theweek/audio/enhanced/20060103.m4ajerry
September 13, 2006
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or they can take a puppy & cut the vital arteries... & freeze it for 10 days to preserve the state... then defreeze it & rejoin the arteries... technically it should be again begin to work if we are a machine... right...SatyaMevaJayate
September 13, 2006
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