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Contest Question 1: Does the multiverse help science make sense – or simply destroy science?

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This is  Contest Question 1 for Earn Free Stuff: Does the multiverse help science make sense – or simply destroy science?

To help you decide, here’s a classic pop science article by Anil Ananthaswamy of New Scientist, fronting the multiverse:

Today’s measurements show the universe to be flat, but the uncertainty in those measurements still leaves room for space-time to be slightly curved – either like a saddle (negatively curved) or like a sphere (positively curved). “If we originated from a tunnelling event from an ancestor vacuum, the bet would be that the universe is negatively curved,” says Susskind. “If it turns out to be positively curved, we’d be very confused. That would be a setback for these ideas, no question about it.” 

Until any such setback the smart money will remain with the multiverse and string theory. “It has the best chance of anything we know to be right,” Weinberg says of string theory. “There’s an old joke about a gambler playing a game of poker,” he adds. “His friend says, ‘Don’t you know this game is crooked, and you are bound to lose?’ The gambler says, ‘Yes, but what can I do, it’s the only game in town.’ We don’t know if we are bound to lose, but even if we suspect we may, it is the only game in town.”

Question: For a free copy of Expelled, is this a way to do science?

Winner: Contest Question 1 winner: Does the multiverse help science make sense – or simply destroy science? (6 May 2009)

The Uncommon Descent Contest Question 1 winner is #27:

To claim the prize, a free copy of Expelled, #27 John A Designer must send me a snail address at dodesignorchance@gmail.com

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason“, wrote NASA astronomer Robert Jastrow in his book, God and the Astronomers, “the story ends like a bad dream.” Jastrow was talking about the impact of the Big Bang Theory, which by 1978 had virtually eliminated the competing “steady state hypothesis”, which had argued that the universe was eternal and self existent.

But why should the idea that the universe has a beginning be such a nightmare to some scientists?

It is because the big bang itself presents a metaphysical road block to both empirical science and worldviews, like materialism and naturalism, that pretend to be based on empirical natural science. Natural science requires some degree of causal continuity. The big bang presents an absolute dead end to any kind of natural causal continuity.

So what caused the universe to explode into existence?

I think there are logically three possibilities:

1. The universe was uncaused. It just happened.
2. Our universe was caused by some primordial universe (or universes) that preceded it.
3. Our universe was caused by an eternally existing, or self existing intelligence that ontologically transcends it.

How can we decide among these three options? While there are probably some people that believe in number one, I think most serious thinkers put their money on number 2 or 3, so I‘ll concentrate there.

#3 appeals to people who are predisposed to some kind of theistic worldview.

#2, on the other hand, has an appeal to people who prefer scientific or empirical explanations. #2 is the logical basis for the so called multiverse hypothesis. But how does one empirically prove such an idea? If one universe is the cause of another, how does that happen? Will our universe cause another universe? What evidence do presently have of that? Are these other universes observable?

Furthermore, the multiverse idea appears to lead to an infinite regress. How can one empirically prove the existence of an infinite regress? How does one empirically prove the existence of anything that is infinite?

The only thing that #2 seems to have going for it, is that it superficially appears to be scientific. But regrettably, at least for its proponents, it is only a matter of appearances.

In my opinion, the only thing that gives #2 any life is that is simply unthinkable to some people that the explanation is #3.

What I liked about this entry is its clear communication with lay people.

I also especially commend 41, #45, # 48, #51 and # 52

If you did not win, relax. There are 24 more prizes and another contest (#4) will be posted shortly. And if lots of people enter, I am certain to be offered more prizes. So remember, no more than 400 words, and the contest is judged two weeks after the question is posted. For more rules info (not that there is a lot of it), go here.

Comments
R0b, Are you saying that the infinite number of universes are generated in some random fashion but that all combinations are not likely? If so then there is some sort of bias in the generation process and the fact that our universe exists is not just a fluke of randomization but somehow preferred by this process to be more likely than others. And if the ways that generate universes favors the universe we have then it follows that there are an infinite number of universes just like ours either way you look at it. To say that we are a fluke but there are infinite numbers of other types of universes but not ours would be a very strange claim. It is common in mathematics to take infinite subsets of larger sets. Both are infinite but one is contained in the other. Odd integers within all integers. There are even an infinite number of primes which is a much smaller subset of all integers.jerry
May 7, 2009
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I think the game is given away in the sentence “However, if our universe is part of a multiverse then we can ascribe the value of the cosmological constant to an accident.” Clearly the ability to describe something as an accident is given a philosophical preference; for some reason being able to say “it was just a big accident!” is considered desirable, as if it is associated with good science. I would be interested to hear the reasoning behind this, but suspect that it is merely to avoid the possibility of design in the universe and has nothing to do with definitions of “good science” (who can exactly agree on what science is anyway?). Since definitions of science are notoriously slippery, I am hesitant to pronounce the multiverse theory as science or non-science. For the sake of argument, at least, I have no problem considering it to be “science.” I think the focus should be not on whether or not it is properly scientific, but on its underlying assumptions and whether it is warranted given the evidence. This is similar to the approach ID theorists take with Darwinism; it is a scientific theory, sure, but is it true? The multiverse theory starts with the assumption that only chance can explain our universe; the only purpose of its bloated ontology is to improve the odds of an explanation settled upon beforehand. This has a rather ad hoc ring to it, and this, I suspect, most can agree is not generally a good characteristic for science to have. As for the evidence for the theory, there is none, as far as I can see. In the future it may or may not be possible for experiments to even address the theory. As it stands then, the materialist’s “only game in town” is not attractive as a meaningful explanation. To continue with Steven Wienberg’s analogy, it is as if the card-playing gambler, stuck playing the “only game in town,” is actually across the street from a casino with, say, computerized slot machines. When asked more explicitly why he refused to try them, the gambler replies, “Oh, I never play those machines. I prefer good old-fashioned cards.”jlid
May 7, 2009
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My thought is that ID people should do all they can to make sure the multiverse gets adopted as the most promising scientific theory. If it does ID people can then put forward this obvious challenge. A cash prize should be offered for anyone who can design a doable experiment that would differentiate between a universe which is one universe in a multiverse reality, and a universe which has been designed.. The experiment must be doable. No trains that travel close to the speed of light, no time travel through supposed worm holes. There must be a proposal that would allow the experiment to be concluded in a finite amount of time, preferably within a typical experimenter's lifetime. Note the experiment does not have to be conclusive, It just has to show different results for a multiverse universe vs. a designed universe. Perhaps we could even include undoable ( thought ) experiments. Even though I have a PhD. in physics, I am not so up on the multiverse theory, but it seems to me by inspection that there is no way for someone in one of these universes to do any experiment that would reveal the existence of the other universes. The consequeces of multivers popularity then are: Multiverse may or may not be science, but it is no more or no less science that ID is. Wherever multiverse is taught, ID belongs in the same classification. Since empirically they are the same, one must decide between them by blind faith. The multiverse or ID are both faith statements. I personally believe that Occam's razor dictates ID to be the more believable. The only reason I can see to choose multiverse over ID is it excuses you from having to confront the Designer. Maybe some people will become a little more aware of why they make the choice of Darwinism will be made a little more obvious by the popularity of the multiverse.JDH
May 7, 2009
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Does the multiverse help science make sense - or simply destroy science? After analysing several centuries of scientific research and focus on the way actual science is being done - not on the way science should be done- Feyerabend came to the conclusion that in science "everything goes". So from an historical perspective, string theory or multiverse theories are as scientifics as for example heliocentrism. When copernic came up with this ideea, scientific fact of his time were actually in favor of the ideea of the earth being the center of the universe. Hence not being able to test a theory is not "unscientific". Multiverse theory, like all other theory, imply to "believe" in the fact that some mathematical equation give a good model of the reality. Actually, it imply more than that: it imply to believe in a particular interpretation of these equations. Indeed, equations in quantum theory don't come up with a meaning. The Human is the one creating this meaning. Actually, please note the use of the word "believe" in one of the strongest proponent of the multiverse theory, the physicist Lussky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgzRIiQ4b8 I do agree with the other comments about the motivation behind the "multiverse" theory. However, avoiding the need of God by refering to an infinity of world with an infinity of possibility make the thing much more complicated. Indeed, if there is an infinity of universe and an infinity of possibility, therefore there must be at least one universe where a God exist. And how can we be sure that this God is not the one that created our universe? Conclusion: yes, multiverse theory is science, but no, it's not a very good help for people in need of clarity and certainty and it's surely not a good argument against God existence.Kyrilluk
May 7, 2009
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Time before time and infinity are concepts that I am just incapable of truly grasping. At some point, I think, we have to accept the limits of our consciousness. At least I have to! (Though I am curious why the multi-verse would somehow rebuke the existence of God as some seem to feel)Tommy V
May 7, 2009
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jerry, interesting thoughts. But I don't follow your logic:
If there are an infinite number of universes X, there is a subset of X which is also infinite and contains only universes just like ours and which we will call X1.
To see why this isn't necessarily so, consider that this logic implies that X should also contain an infinite subset of universes that are different from ours, which we'll call X2. But X2 is an infinite set of universes, and it doesn't contain X1. Thus, it isn't necessary that an infinite set of universes contain X1. This is akin to the mistaken notion that in an infinite number of universes, everything that can happen, will happen. That's like saying that an infinite set of numbers must contain all numbers, which is incorrect.R0b
May 7, 2009
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Mapou…thanks, I needed that! “Spacetime” is actually a negation of applied physics? If so, that’s quite amusing, since much of Einstein’s popularity among the cultural elite came from the power of Relativity to annihilate the Transcendental Aesthetic with its universals of Space and Time (as is explicitly stated in Hawking’s encomium on the “Person of the Century.”) In other words, “science” is just as political as philosophy, and divided in pretty much the same way. Just as there were Idealists and Realists—lovers of pure intellect vs lovers of synthetic concepts of value—so the attempt to supplant philosophy with science in the modern era turned into a war between lovers of theory with its simplifying power and lovers of quantitation and ratios of value. Space and time can be used to create ratios, as in Newton, or they can be described as a theoretical unity—but not both. And any attempt to negate the complexity of the ratio and unify then in one simple term apparently leads to the same nothingness as Idealism and Rationalism. So what Nietzsche said about philosophers is also true of science at the cultural level. It’s not about truth. It’s about the will to power. Now about the length and frequency of Allen’s posts…allanius
May 7, 2009
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the wonderer at [15]. LOL! Problem is, for all you know REFUSING to answer might be what causes the rift in the space time continuum that results in this universe ceasing to exist. Any way you slice it, you're in a fix.Barry Arrington
May 7, 2009
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I will restate my analysis of the multiverse. If there are an infinite number of universes X, there is a subset of X which is also infinite and contains only universes just like ours and which we will call X1. Even if universes like ours is produced at a rate of only 1 in 10^1000 there will still be an infinite number of them. In X1 there will be a subset which is also infinite where life arose naturally say X2. So there will be a boatload of universes just like ours where life arose naturally. Now in X2 which is infinite there will be a subset X3 which is also infinite that has an intelligence much greater than us. And just for argument sakes we say the range of intelligence in X3 is shaped like a bell curve there would be an infinite number of universes in X3 that are to the right of us on intelligence and some so far out that we would be in complete awe of their intelligence. Now these intelligences in which we are in awe and the universes in which they reside also form an infinite number of universes which we will call X4. Now in X4 some of these intelligences will be able to make new universes and communicate and travel to the other universes and this subset will be called X5. And each intelligence in X5 will be given a name which we will call God. So what we have from the infinite multiverse theory is that there will be an infinite number of Gods. QED. Now if we do not have an infinite number of universes but some paltry number such as 10^5000 then what are the odds of getting an X5 type universe. I would say probably pretty good. Either way the multiverse theory has created gods or more than likely a huge amount of them. And if one member in X5 is more intelligent than the rest, then maybe one of these gods is called God by the other gods.jerry
May 7, 2009
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I refuse to answer the question. If I answer, it may create another universe in which I cease to exist. Not only is the fate of science depending on me not answering, but perhaps the entire existence of everything. Nope. You are not gonna put that kinda pressure on me!!the wonderer
May 7, 2009
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It seems to me that the string theorists practice methodological supernaturalism. LOL, exactly!! If I were an ID activist, I would drive home the similarity at every opportunity. And how, pray tell, are they similar? ID doesn't presume to address anything unobservable. It simply says 1. Design exists (Do you agree?) 2. It has discrete qualities (Do you agree?) 3. Here is what they are (Disagree? Please falsify) 4. Here is how to find them. 5. Apply it to whatever.tribune7
May 7, 2009
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Denyse, forgive a word-choice error in the wee hours: nonconformity.T M English
May 7, 2009
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If I were an ID advocate, I would say yes. You don't like the conclusions of string theory (and the accompanying multiverse theories), but you really should love the methodology. It seems to me that the string theorists practice methodological supernaturalism. They infer causes that we presently cannot imagine observing. And they depend heavily (entirely?) on falsificationism for justifying the claim that their theories are scientific. There's also a more subtle analogy. Theoretical physicists have developed, I think, something of a faith that if the math works out, nature will comply. Not to be mean, but there's a similar aspect in the work of Dembski and Marks. They reason about a regress of probability measures, and subsequently treat those abstract mathematical entities as though they are physical. Their new Law of Conservation of Information does not work out as a law of nature unless probability measures are physically real. Again, nature presumably follows math. Nothing else accepted by the scientific establishment comes nearly as close to ID in methodology as string theory. If I were an ID activist, I would drive home the similarity at every opportunity. I know I gave the wrong answer, but do I get a consolation prize for nonconformism?T M English
May 6, 2009
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Why should Anil Ananthaswamy get to be *the* Anil Ananthaswamy that gets the supreme privilege of fronting this theory? Shouldn't all buhzillion of him get to bask in this new science glory equally (whilst, and, at the same time?). The multiverse seems a bit too close to the ultimate schizophrenia. I am not schizo! (..and neither am I, or the scientist sitting next to that version of me). But I don't think this is such a problem after all, because I am most certain that the guys over there on the 7th thread next door to us are right this minute running Anil out on a rail and revoking his tenure.selectedpete
May 6, 2009
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Sorry, please add the words "and the fine tuning of the constants of physics and cosmology" after the words "Big Bang" in my post, above. Thanks.Bruce David
May 6, 2009
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The theory of the multiverse is simply an attempt to avoid the otherwise inescapable conclusion that follows from the Big Bang, namely, Yes, folks, there is a God. Nonetheless, in my opinion it isn't science, notwithstanding the fact that the idea seems to have been suggested by the notion of the quantum vacuum, because, as the opponents of ID are so fond of trumpeting, "If it ain't testable, it ain't science." What it is is speculation on the ultimate nature of reality, which makes it philosophy. But it's not very good philosophy either, if you accept the validity of Occam's razor, since the number of universes in the multiverse must be astronomical (no pun intended), whereas the number of additional entities in the alternative (God created the Heavens and the Earth.) is One.Bruce David
May 6, 2009
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While I suppose the theory of a multiverse could be looked at from an honest perspective, if it's done with the idea to rule out design, then it's really bad science. (If it could even be called science.) Trying to rule out design by imposing a multiverse still fails to explain how this multiverse/these multiple universes came to be in the first place. Rather than explain one universe, you're forced to explain the existence of multiple universes.Domoman
May 6, 2009
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What I love about the multiverse is that there is not even the facade of it being derived from scientific evidence. Something like it has to be true, since the numbers would otherwise support design. Multiverse proponents are puppets of their commitment to a materialist universe. This is religion, not science.vrf
May 6, 2009
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No. Whilst there are many reasons why this is not how to do science, I will simply point out the very first one: flawed assumptions. In science, frequently we make assumptions - or impose assumptions - about the nature of what we study. This may be from as simple as assuming that the force of gravity is equal at sea-level in all parts of the world (generally considered acceptable not to mention) to making the assumption that a sick dog is unlikely to have neoplasia because it is only six months old. Multiverse 'science' fails at the very first assumption where it rules out one of these categories (materialistic vs non-materialistic), without providing a reason. Nothing in science can be dismissed without a justification. And we cannot rule out a category on the basis of 'preference' nor 'it is just not', or immediately we have lost the objectivity the scienctific method is supposed to strive for. For multiverse 'science' to proceed, it necessitates the caveat: assuming that all of existence consists of only the material ...*, or alternatively a demonstration of why non-material frameworks have been ruled out. Many will dispute the underlying materialistic assumption - and for good reason - but at least now we're working within the scientific paradigm. And, of course, honesty. --- *This sort of thing should be conspicuously absent in multiverse writings to those that read alot of scientific papers. One of the most fundamental parts of any scientific investigation is the 'Limitations of this study' section in the discussion, a.k.a. "What factors in our assumptions and methodolgy could explain the discrepancies between our predicted results and actual results?" -Avonwatches
May 6, 2009
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No, we do not do science by reading pop science articles. However a little summary from Andrei Linde Prof of Physics may provide some clues as to how science is done pertaining to "multiverse" thinking.Joseph
May 6, 2009
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The cause of the Big Bang is the limit to human reason. We cannot conceive or understand an uncaused cause, yet we know there must be one. The multiverse may very well be true, and if so, and if it does not have our physics as some predict, will ironically dovetail rather nicely with Christian cosmology. I suppose we can say investigating it does help "science" make sense of things. And you still have to deal with the uncaused cause, which would obviously not be subject to our the physical laws upon which our science is based. Once those who study science understand and accept this, reality will make sense to them.tribune7
May 6, 2009
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It's funny to observe physicists still talking about spacetime as if it were a physical entity capable of being modified (curved). The amazing and nasty little truth is that spacetime is a figment of the imagination, a mere superstition. Why? Because, by definition, spacetime is 100% frozen. Nothing can move in it. Surprise! This is the reason that Sir Karl Popper wrote in Conjectures and Refutations that spacetime was "Einstein's block universe in which nothing happens." Popper knew what he was talking about and nobody dared to contradict him. Any talk of a physical time dimension (as in String theory) or of motion in time (i.e., time travel in any direction) is silly crackpottery. This is one of the reasons that I despair of seeing any major advance in physics any time soon, at least not from the physics community. There is a need for a radical Kuhnian revolution in the sciences, especially in physics. I won't even get into the multiple universes interpretation of QM because it is, in the words of Pauli, not even wrong.Mapou
May 6, 2009
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When I followed the link to the article on the multiverse, I noted with some amusement that the "most read" articles were on the multiverse and "13 things that don't make sense." The multiverse theory is one of those thirteen things. If the multiverse theory ascribes the value of the cosmological constant to "an accident" and the fundamental physical forces governing our universe are "randomly determined", then why do physicists claim that we can continue asking meaningful questions about the universe and the life contained therein? What is meaningful about an accident? What is meaningful about randomness? The article also referenced the concept of "eternal inflation" with respect to multiverse theory. In 2001, Alan Guth (along with two other physicists) wrote an article on how inflation is not past eternal. Their results could also be applied to multidimensional models. So, even a multiverse has to have a beginning somewhere. Certainly, physics and astrophysics lend themselves to near-constant questioning and exploration. This is good, because this is what science is all about: the search for truthful answers about how things are they way they are. Science follows a path of empirical verification and experimentation to come up with those answers. Science, however, should not make the mistake of retreading old paths that have proven to be dead ends. The multiverse theory is one such dead end.Barb
May 6, 2009
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No. The multiverse hypothesis is a backwards extrapolation from the naturalistic assumption. When confronted with the excessive fine-tuning of critical values and constants for basic physical laws, naturalism mutates (pardon the pun) into a new form to accommodate the data. By positing many or even an infinite number of universes, advocates of naturalism avoid (in their view) having to answer the glaring question of fine-tuning in the universe. They respond to “the only game in town” by coming up with the equally ridiculous assumption that there are an infinite number of games in an infinite number of towns, even though we play this game in our own town. While there may be multiple universes, the fact that we are unable to detect them and measure them as yet renders the multiverse hypothesis untenable as serious science. philosotericphilosoteric
May 6, 2009
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