Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinists: Our Interpretation of the Data Is the Data

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

I can be kind of slow on the uptake, and no doubt many here at UD have recognized this phenomenon before – Darwinists mistaking their interpretation of the data for the data itself.  But it occurred to me with startling clarity today when I was reading the comments to this post in which the UD News Desk reports that that New Scientist is growing skeptical of some of the methods of neuroscientists who claim to have associated particular behaviors/beliefs with certain brain activity. 

Turell is also skeptical of these methods and writes:  “What is crazy is that an fMRI is measuring blood flow increases to areas of the brain, not the brain neurons. The brain is extremely interconnected between all regions. So what is being shown, really? Scientific garbage. But one has to merit grants to survive. Part of the fault is unthinking sources of money. Part is publish or perish. Part is the buddy system in peer review. Hurray for Tallis.” 

A Darwinist commenter, Joealtle, responds:  “Uh are you questioning the validity of fMRI? Wow you must have some serious evidence to back that one.” 

Did anyone see turell question the validity of fMRI generally?  Far from it, he specifically notes that an fMRI in fact does what it purports to do in the studies – i.e., measure blood flow increases to areas of the brain.  Turell is not questioning fMRIs as such.  He is questioning the interpretation of data obtained through the use of fMRIs.  Yet Joealtle treats turell as if he is questioning fMRIs as such. 

Joe’s comment startled me.  It is such an obvious non sequitur.  I wondered what he could be thinking.  Then it occurred to me this should not surprise me, because Joe is behaving like Darwinists generally behave – confusing their interpretation of the data for the data itself.  Joe appears to be convinced that the conclusions drawn from the brain scan studies are valid and when turell questions those conclusions he attacks him as if he questioned the brain scans themselves, rather than the conclusions drawn from the brain scans. 

Where have we seen this before?  Well, if you think about it, pretty much everywhere:

ID Guy:  I am skeptical of Darwinian processes’ ability to account fully for the complexity and diversity of the biosphere. 

Darwinist:  IDiot, don’t you know that we have actually observed germs develop antibiotic resistance though Darwinian processes? 

ID Guy:  Of course, I know that. 

Darwinist:  Then you know that Darwinian evolution is as well demonstrated as the law of gravity. 

ID Guy:  No, your interpretation of the antibiotic resistance data is not the data.  Let me try to explain this for you in terms adapted to the meanest understanding.  The data indicate that species clearly undergo small changes through Darwinian processes.  Examples abound:  antibiotic resistance in germs, the size of finch beaks during times of drought, etc.  You extrapolate from that data and conclude that the same process that creates these small changes within the species created the species in the first place.  In other words, you infer that Darwinian processes not only change the size of finch beaks, they create finches to begin with.  Please understand that the small changes within a species that have been observed are the data.  The creation of species through these processes has not been observed, and therefore is not the data.  It is an inference from the data.  The inference may be valid.  It may be invalid.  The point is that you do not seem to understand that your preferred inference from the data is not the same thing as the data itself.

 

 

Joealtle, I am going to clue you and your Darwinist comrades in here, so please pay close attention now:  Your interpretation of the data is not the same thing as the data.  Write that down.

Comments
You reveal your bias barb, your opinion no longer matters. We're talking about what someone said, about what someone else said, seems about right for the ID crowd.Joealtle
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
10:17 AM
10
10
17
AM
PDT
Yeah, I'll take the OP's interpretation and Dr. Turell's comments over what you post any day of the week, Joe. It's telling that you note: "...certainly seems to me like he is trying to say that fMRI visualizes changes in blood..." What you think he is saying and what he is actually saying are two different things.Barb
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
10:12 AM
10
10
12
AM
PDT
Hmm so basically its the OPs interpretation of the comment versus mine. It seemed to me that the commenter was certainly calling into question the validity of using fMRI to study brain function. Why dont you ask the commenter himself. The fact that he said "not the brain nuerons" is what the issue is. Those four words is what makes him wrong. As I said, measuring oxygen levels in the blood is a measure of neuron firing in the brain. Him saying that they are not measuring brain neurons themselves certainly seems to me like he is trying to say that fMRI visualizes changes in blood and has nothing to do with the neurons.Joealtle
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
10:00 AM
10
10
00
AM
PDT
Joealtle, when the author of a piece takes the time to post here and you keep insisting that he is wrong about what he wrote, you come across as being stupid. Seriously, the OP specifically notes that Dr. Turell wasn't questioning the validity of fMRI and you state that he was. That is weapons-grade stupid right there. Try paying attention once in a while.Barb
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
09:50 AM
9
09
50
AM
PDT
"What is crazy is that an fMRI is measuring blood flow increases to areas of the brain, not the brain neurons." He most certainly was questioning the validity of fMRI. He seemed, at least to me, to be insinuating that what fMRI measures is bloodflow and not neuron function. However, anyone who knows what they are talking about also knows that the basis of fMRI is in the fact that neuron function is directly linked to increase blood flow. This is what fMRI measures, changes in blood-oxygen level (energy usage) that is due to neuron function. Nice try though.Joealtle
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
08:08 AM
8
08
08
AM
PDT
This is precisely the problem I addressed in my recent post on the EC-EE claim. Data and evidence are two different things. What data is evidence for depends greatly on other background principles and theories that we accept. In other words, the observers assign evidentiary status to data based on those background principles and theories. Thus Darwinists have no problem assigning certain sorts of data - observations of small scale adaptions to perturbations in an environment - evidentiary status for the entire Grand Evolutionary Extrapolation (what I call the great GEE of Darwinism, as in "GEE whiz, look at the wonders evolution hath wrought!). And then they say, the GEE is confirmed! The point of critique against this isn't to deny the original data - it IS to question the background principles and theories being applied to connect the data to the GEE claim! Once we understand that the main background principle being applied is rooted firmly in philosophical naturalism, as Philip Johnson so wonderfully exposed in Darwin on Trial, then the GEE itself begins to look very suspicious, if not downright incorrect. This is the point that Darwinists just don't seem to grasp, hence their continued violations of what I shall henceforth call Arrington's Axiom: Interpretation of data is not the data itself!DonaldM
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
07:59 AM
7
07
59
AM
PDT
As a Jewish physician I read this site regularly since I fully accept intelligent design, and the reasoning presented here. Sometimes a little like a fish out of water since theologically the site is Christian in background, but God is God no matter how you think of Him. The misuse of fMRI's by distorting what can be concluded from the data is infuriating, and defies logic. I appreciate this expansion on my comment by Barry Arrington.turell
June 4, 2013
June
06
Jun
4
04
2013
07:56 AM
7
07
56
AM
PDT
1 2

Leave a Reply