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Dinesh D’Souza speaks out against ID

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In reading Dinesh D’Souza’s WHAT’S SO GREAT ABOUT CHRISTIANITY, I was surprised at how uncritical and historically uninformed is his view of evolution. For instance, he lumped C. S. Lewis with other notable 20th century Christian intellectuals as accepting evolutionary theory, but in fact toward the end of his life, Lewis regretted his earlier support for evolution (go here).

With even less apparent knowledge of his subject, D’Souza is now weighing in against intelligent design:

The Failure of “Intelligent Design”
Posted Mar 31st 2008 9:38AM by Dinesh D’Souza
Filed under: Science, Christianity, Atheism

. . . Today some Christians may be heading down the same path with their embrace of “intelligent design” or ID. This movement is based on the idea that Darwinian evolution is not only flawed but basically fraudulent. ID should not, however, be confused with bible-thumping six-day creationism. It does not regard the earth as 6,000 years old. Its leading advocates are legal scholar Phillip Johnson, biochemist Michael Behe, mathematician David Berlinski, and science journalist Jonathan Wells. Berlinski has a new book out The Devil’s Advocate that makes the remarkable claim that “Darwin’s theory of evolution has little to contribute to the content of the sciences.” Ben Stein’s movie “Expelled” provides horror stories to show that the case for ID as well as critiques of evolution from an ID perspective are routinely excluded or censored in the halls of academe.

ID advocates have sought to convince courts to require that their work be taught alongside Darwinian evolution, yet such efforts have been resoundingly defeated. Why has the ID legal strategy proven to be such a failure, even at the hands of conservative judges? Imagine that a group of advocates challenged Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity. Let’s say that this group, made up of a law professor, a couple of physicists, several journalists, as well as some divinity school graduates, flatly denies Einstein’s proposition that e=mc2.

How would a judge, who is not a physicist, resolve the group’s demand for inclusion in the physics classroom? He would summon a wide cross-section of leading physicists. They would inform him that despite unresolved debates about relativity–for example, its unexplained relationship to quantum theory–Einstein’s theories are supported by a wide body of data. They enjoy near-unanimous support in the physics community worldwide. There is no alternative scientific theory that comes close to explaining the facts at hand. In such a situation any judge would promptly show the dissenters the door and deny their demand for equal time in the classroom. This is precisely the predicament of the ID movement. . . .

MORE

What an incredible comparison. D’Souza here gives no evidence of knowing even the rudiments of the debate over ID — he merely repeats the worst propaganda against ID. I encourage anyone who has personal contact with him to provide him with better information. A point of leverage is that D’Souza presumably wants Christians, many of whom support ID, to buy his book.

Comments
jerry, I won't speak for most of those who support ID - I'm just one guy. But as a guess, I think that 'most' (as in, not on this particular site, but generally out in the public) have at best a belief that there's something more to life-as-it-is than simple chance and darwinian evolution, but haven't followed through with what that may or may not mean. As with most topics, many people are happy being passively familiar with the data at best. However, you can count me (and even on this site, a few others) as believing more or less what you do - I believe in common descent, that life likely evolved from the simple to the more complex over time, etc. I do think the darwinian paradigm ended as the best explanation for life when humans arrived on the scene, that alternative models may offer better understandings of even so-called 'naturalistic processes' (Gaia theory, for example, has more of an accent on equilibriums being maintained than 'winners' triumphing over 'losers' in the natural world), and certainly that evolution has been twisted to support an atheistic agenda - frankly, I'm on board with Dinesh with a lot of what he says, though I still think he has much to learn about the scope of ID theory. I suppose what I'm saying is, you're not alone in your views. I respect that others disagree, of course - and so long as ID truly remains Big Tent (Where the operational views of people like Dinesh, Michel Heller, MikeGene, or even Ken Miller are respected and welcomed), I don't have any problem. For the record, one thing to keep in mind about Dinesh is that, even if he is misinformed about ID as a school of thought, he's clearly very well informed about the particular abuses of science made when it comes to Dawkins, Dennett, and the rest on darwinism and evolution. He clearly sees neither of these things as a threat to faith, certainly not proof against it, and I believe does a good job of articulating his reasons why. Even if someone is utterly skeptical of what evolution can accomplish, I think it's important to realize that even if evolution can accomplish all that the orthodoxy claims - it STILL is no threat to theism, and that the primary problem is with how the data is abused to promote a favored worldview.nullasalus
April 2, 2008
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Apollos, At Dave's suggestion I changed the email address in my profile. My next attempt worked. So like Pavlov's dog, I associate the two.jerry
April 2, 2008
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Jerry wrote:
This a test since all my posts have been going into the spam filter
One sure way to end up in the filter is by including multiple hyperlinks. Wordpress has a feature where it will hold up posts with multiple links; so it may not even be an Akismet issue. (Wordpress Admin->Options->Discussion). I ended up raising the limit on my site so it wouldn't trip these up. I'm not sure if this is what's happening Jerry, but if you're pasting more than 1 or 2 hyperlinks in a single post, it's quite possible.Apollos
April 2, 2008
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This is the third time I have posted this. Nearly all my posts have not appeared for over a day. I was prevented from answering questions and challenges to my assertion that most of the species on the planet arrived via the Darwinian paradigm because of a glitch in the software of the site. I will try to do so now because the understanding of ID on this site by many is very different from mine and I believe it is anti science. No Eric Anderson, it was no April Fool's comment. The current estimate for the number of species on the planet varies but an estimate of 10 million is usually given. Here is one estimate "So far scientists have named and classified more than 1½ million animals. Over half of these are types of insects and other species are discovered each year. Scientists believe there may be from 2 million to as many as 50 million kinds of animals alive today." It is from http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/FelixNisimov.shtml If we use the 10 million as an estimate or just the 1.5 million, how many arrived on the planet as a design event and how many arrived via a naturalistic process. Pick one of the following that is closest to what you believe. A. 100% arrived via naturalistic processes B. 95%+ arrived via naturalistic processes but not all C. 75%+ arrived via naturalistic processes D. 50%+ arrived via naturalistic processes E. 25%+ arrived via naturalistic processes F. 10%+ arrived via naturalistic processes G. 0%+ arrived via naturalistic processes I believe B best describes the empirical evidence. Actually I would make the number closer to 99.5%. (Remember there are 300,000 beetle species and tens of thousands of fish species.) But believing that this is true does not deny ID in one iota. In fact I believe it makes ID stronger and disbelief makes ID weaker and anti science. From the reactions that were posted here and the lack of a defense in what I have said, then it is my belief that ID as understood on this site by most is not in sync with the empirical evidence. And if this is true of what most who support ID believe then ID is generating an anti-science belief system and that D'Souza's observations may be the result of the same observations I have made despite what the formal statements about ID that are posted here.jerry
April 2, 2008
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This a test since all my posts have been going into the spam filterjerry
April 2, 2008
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And another thing, D'souza seems to conflate ID's failure in the court as one and the same with it as a theory. Since when do courts possess the virtue of unbiased, informed and clear minded truth? Can anybody say OJ? It has been well established that this kind of subject matter is not really one that some miscellaneous judge is capable of sorting out. All the Dover trail proved to me was that some misinformed biased and inadequate judge showed his desire to evoke his ruleing despite his obvious inadequacies. IMOP, Dover said more about the nature and state of the judicial system than it did about the nature and sate of origins science.Frost122585
April 2, 2008
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Incidentally, Dinesh has another article up arguing that (from his point of view) the correct method for dealing with the Dawkins sort of crowd is to oppose atheistic accounts/promotions of evolution, rather than promote ID. I'd disagree with him, only because I (even as someone who doesn't really think design can be scientifically proven on that level) think that ID has considerable value as an investigation into nature, and a philosophical tool in general. The only question is whether the discerning of design in nature that Dinesh himself advocates fits under 'ID', or if it's something else.nullasalus
April 2, 2008
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William Wallace @ 13 What a breath of fresh air. This is the first and only time I have seen a correct account of the various ancient astronomical theories appear on the Net. I first encountered the right stuff in a volume of the Minnesota Studies in the Philosophy of Science, I forget which one. The amusing thing was that Galileo was actually a reactionary! He ignored Kepler's findings and proceeded to sell his own snake oil; even to the point of trying to stuff a bogus theory of the tides down everyone's throat on his own personal "authority." And Kepler was right, insofar as he could have been right. And guess who's horse our scientific prefects decided to ride; not Kepler's! As Bugs Bunny says, what a bunch of maroons!D.A.Newton
April 2, 2008
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Sagebrush:
I will believe that when I start to hear physicists boasting that their theories are “as well-proven as evolution.”
Excellente réplique!Borne
April 2, 2008
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----Jerry: "the Darwinian paradigm explains most of the life on the planet.” Jerry, your position is compatible with ID, but it doesn't define ID. I am reading "The Design Inference" at the moment, and I have found nothing in it that would confirm your extravagant claims. I know you are well versed on the subject, and I respect that. Still, there are those who are equally knowledgeable about the facts who interpret them differently. ID’s varying attitudes about evolution’s power to produce new life, if expressed in mathematical terms, would likely fall under a normal curve distribution. You and Dave Scot are probably at one end of the curve (spectrum), while Paul Nelson, Born again77 (whatever happened to him), and Scordova are probably at the other end. I suspect that mainstream ID, the statistical middle, would claim thinkers like Dembski, Meyer, and, to a lesser extent, Behe. So, what is ID’s official position on the matter? On page 106 of DOL, we read this measured response: “New species have originated many times in the history of life.” That is the mainstream position, and I think it is the one that most of us can live with. It’s a little too much for Gerry and not quite enough for Jerry. That is exactly why we should use it. The one thing we should not do is go beyond that to accommodate the Darwinists. You can’t split the difference with this bunch, because they have already invested themselves in a “no concession policy.” Do you know what happens when you negotiate with tyrants? I’ll tell you. When you move to the middle as a sign of good faith, they seize it, claim it as gained ground, and use it as their new starting point. These people want ID out of commission, period. This is a battle; someone is going to win and someone is going to lose. To win we must do three things: Do good science, tell the truth, and wait.StephenB
April 2, 2008
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Frost, I tried to send you and e-mail just now. Is your UD e-mail current? Nice seeing you at Dr. Berlinski's Discovery Institute party yesterday afternoon. I tried to find you after my book was signed, but you were already gone. Hope to see you at the next DI party. Salvadorscordova
April 2, 2008
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Duncan in #40 I can't speak for Gil, but one aspect of "ID 101" might be the limited demands of the movement, at least at this stage in the debate:
ID advocates have sought to convince courts to require that their work be taught alongside Darwinian evolution, yet such efforts have been resoundingly defeated. Why has the ID legal strategy proven to be such a failure, even at the hands of conservative judges?
As far as I know, no one of any standing in the ID debate has promoted "teaching ID in schools". This is a Darwinist/media misrepresentation that is used to scare parents and educators and thwart further consideration of ID.russ
April 2, 2008
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GilDodgen (11) What is 'ID 101', please?duncan
April 2, 2008
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Jerry You know I hold you in high esteem here. I had to fish your #38 out of the Akismet spam filter. At the moment we're being bombarded with spam comments at a rate of several per minute (orders of magnitude higher than normal). Akismet is a dynamic spam filter that self-modifies and is also modified on-the-fly by the makers. Every so often it hiccups and tags non-spam comments as spam. Something, probably some pattern in your email address, is causing it. You're not the first and probably won't be the last but in all cases (so far) it eventually gets fixed.DaveScot
April 2, 2008
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Patrick, I find it curious that in the middle of a controversial set of statements that my comments all of a sudden disappear. Thank you for looking into it.jerry
April 2, 2008
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Mynym quoting Dick the Dawk:
A stimulating suggestion is the sexual selection theory of Maxine Sheets-Johnstone, of the University of Oregon. She thinks we rose on our hind legs as a means of showing off our penises. Those of us that have penises, that is.
Well, that's certainly why I stand er, erect. Do you mean to say that I'm the only one? ;)russ
April 1, 2008
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Jerry wrote: ". . . the Darwinian paradigm explains most of the life on the planet." An April Fool's joke, presumably?Eric Anderson
April 1, 2008
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Jerry, you're not "on moderation". The akismet filter is automatically stopping your comments. If it continues I'll contact Akismet.Patrick
April 1, 2008
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D'souza is a smart guy and usually is in the business of defending belief in religion especially Christianity. He shows his ignorance by excluding you Bill from his short list of ID advocates- even in the face of that the fact that you wrote "The Design Inference" and "No Free Lunch" which to this day are the main works that form the scientific inference of ID. I have always and still do take D'souza as a bright guy. Its good to have him on our side for what good he does contribute. However where all of this ignorance comes from I cannot say. Perhaps he sees you and Wells and Berlinski as getting into his Kool-aid, that is as his competition. I hope he isn’t in this business simply for money. Either way D'souza is a good speaker on issues of faith and atheism but he has it way wrong on ID. He needs to sit down with an open honest mind and actually read your books Bill "TDI and NFL"-- then maybe he will actually know what he is talking about.Frost122585
April 1, 2008
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...not exactly like questioning e=mc^2 but sometimes close.
I will believe that when I start to hear physicists boasting that their theories are "as well-proven as evolution."sagebrush gardener
April 1, 2008
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Your statement: "toward the end of his life, Lewis regretted his earlier support for evolution" is a bit exaggerated and is not supported by the Acworth letters which you cite. For more information on this your readers might be interested in reading my book "Mere Theology: A Guide to the Thought of C. S. Lewis" and the chapter on Creation. As the web site you cited points out, Lewis never recanted his theistic evolutionary stance.Will Vaus
April 1, 2008
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Its leading advocates are legal scholar Phillip Johnson, biochemist Michael Behe, mathematician David Berlinski, and science journalist Jonathan Wells. Dr. D, you've been dissed by a guy named Dinesh. OK, I could probably do a better job with the beat if I went to Oxford like Dawk the Dick. Berlinski has a new book out The Devil’s Advocate that makes the remarkable claim that “Darwin’s theory of evolution has little to contribute to the content of the sciences.” Well you could say it's remarkable and have the mind-numbed robotic crowd nod their heads in trained obedience. Or you could cite the fields which require fidelity to the dogma that all life descended from a common ancestor, much less that all life descended from a common ancestor solely via the know means of random genetic change plus natural selection. Of course doing so presents the danger of unnumbing the robots. This movement is based on the idea that Darwinian evolution is not only flawed but basically fraudulent. Does this statistically establish that those whose first and last initials are "D" are clueless?tribune7
April 1, 2008
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nullasalus, The more I consider biological systems from every angle and from every level, I can't help thinking "designed to evolve" along certain lines. And I agree, proving it a lab may be impossible. Maybe the designers intended it that way, who knows.mike1962
April 1, 2008
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mike1962, See, so do I. I waffle on whether it can be proved in a lab - I don't think design of that level can be demonstrated on the same level as other scientific work. But I see value in the research and exploration of it anyway. If that's truly the case, it needs to be presented more clearly. I'm sure some ID proponents do deny evolution - and I'm not objecting to that. But that someone can accept both ID and evolution is a concept that really need to be communicated better.nullasalus
April 1, 2008
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Why can't I edit myself. I meant [B] make your case in as few words as possible.StephenB
April 1, 2008
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Here's a modest proposal: Let's write Dinesh. I suggest we proceed as follows: [A] compliment him for what is good in his book, [B] make your case for ID in as words as possible, [C] end on a positive note. Use the sandwich technique; it works every time. Do not begin the correspondence with an insult! this man can be reached by e-mail. Let's contact him and report back.StephenB
April 1, 2008
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jerry:
"It becomes not exactly like questioning e=mc^2 but sometimes close."
You've got to be kidding! As was stated by mynym, just when has Darwinism been described by exact mathematic equations with precise constants? There are no equations and no precise constants. (population genetics doesn't count - its all statistics) Your statement resembles the common Darwinist folderol of saying Darwinism is as proven as gravity. You really ought to understand your subject before you make faulty comments like that. Unless of course you can present us with the math that demonstrates the truth of Darwinian evol.?Borne
April 1, 2008
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nullasalus: I wonder, can you believe both in evolution and in ID? Of course. I do.mike1962
April 1, 2008
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jerry: "As unpleasant as may be for many who come to this blog, RV + NS (genetics) works in an extremely large number of cases." What kind of mutations/variations occured , and in what order, does it take to get a human brain from a "common ancestor of apes and humans?"mike1962
April 1, 2008
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Dinesh started of with:
As a Christian, I believe that the universe and its living creatures are the products of intelligent design. This belief is not merely derived from theology but is also supported by rational considerations. There is enormous intelligence embedded in the laws of nature. The greatest scientists over the past few centuries have worked to decode the intelligence mysteriously imprinted in the workings of nature. Scientific laws, as spelled out by Keppler, Newton, Einstein and others, reveal nature as exquisitely orderly. So who encoded this intelligence in nature? Since the universe had a beginning, how did it get here? There is no natural explanation, since the universe includes all of nature. It is more than absurd to posit that the universe caused itself. The most reasonable explanation is that our rational universe is the product of some super-rational or omniscient intelligence. An intelligent designer is not the only explanation, but it certainly is the best explanation.
At least Dinesh recognizes the basic reasons for an Intelligent Designer -- even if he has very little understanding of ID.DLH
April 1, 2008
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