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Evolution driven by laws? Not random mutations?

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So claims a recent book, Arrival of the Fittest, by Andreas Wagner, professor of evolutionary biology at U Zurich in Switzerland (also associated with the Santa Fe Institute). He lectures worldwide and is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Sciences.

From the book announcement:

Can random mutations over a mere 3.8 billion years solely be responsible for wings, eyeballs, knees, camouflage, lactose digestion, photosynthesis, and the rest of nature’s creative marvels? And if the answer is no, what is the mechanism that explains evolution’s speed and efficiency?

In Arrival of the Fittest, renowned evolutionary biologist Andreas Wagner draws on over fifteen years of research to present the missing piece in Darwin’s theory. Using experimental and computational technologies that were heretofore unimagined, he has found that adaptations are not just driven by chance, but by a set of laws that allow nature to discover new molecules and mechanisms in a fraction of the time that random variation would take.

From a review (which is careful to note that it is not a religious argument):

The question “how does nature innovate?” often elicits a succinct but unsatisfying response – random mutations. Andreas Wagner first illustrates why random mutations alone cannot be the cause of innovations – the search space for innovations, be it at the level of genes, protein, or metabolic reactions is too large that makes the probability of stumbling upon all the innovations needed to make a little fly (let alone humans) too low to have occurred within the time span the universe has been around.

He then shows some of the fundamental hidden principles that can actually make innovations possible for natural selection to then select and preserve those innovations.

Like interacting parallel worlds, this would be momentous news if it is true. But someone is going to have to read the book and assess the strength of the laws advanced.

One thing for sure, if an establishment figure can safely write this kind of thing, Darwin’s theory is coming under more serious fire than ever. But we knew, of course, when Nature published an article on the growing dissent within the ranks about Darwinism.

In origin of life research, there has long been a law vs. chance controversy. For example, Does nature just “naturally” produce life? vs. Maybe if we throw enough models at the origin of life… some of them will stick?

Note: You may have to apprise your old schoolmarm that Darwin’s theory* is “natural selection acting on random mutations,” not “evolution” in general. It is the only theory that claims sheer randomness can lead to creativity, in conflict with information theory. See also: Being as Communion.

*(or neo-Darwinism, or whatever you call what the Darwin-in-the-schools lobby is promoting or Evolution Sunday is celebrating).*

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Comments
What about an encrypted Sonnet?
The short and sweet answer is: An encrypted Sonnet is no longer a merely a Sonnet. Encryption introduces randomness into the data in the form of a randomized key (the more random the better) applied to the data using some algorithm (there are many.) That's why encryption works.Vishnu
November 4, 2014
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Rich: "What about an encrypted Sonnet?" Please, don't start this again. That discussion resulted in Barry banning me under at least three different names. As it is, I am banned from posting from several IP addresses including home, work (don't tell my boss) and at least two of my favourite bars. I really don't want to have to find another bar to avail myself of this pseudo-amnesty.william spearshake
November 4, 2014
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What about an encrypted Sonnet?Rich
November 4, 2014
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Me_Think: "Do you really believe we can calculate the dFSCI ?" Yes. "I see no way to calculate the dFSCI of say, glacier or Sand. Could you explain how you calculated ?" Yes. Let's see my list. Remember, it's just a list which I made in a few moments, to adhere to a repeated request. "Sand on a beach is not designed. A Shakespeare sonnet is designed. The pattern of the drops of rain is not designed. ATP synthase is designed. A glacier is not designed. Windows XP is designed. A snowflake is not designed. Histone H3 is designed." So, I mention 4 objects or systems which do not allow a design inference because they do not exhibit dFSCI: The disposition of the sand in a beach: easily explained as random, no special function observable which requires a highly specific configuration. Can you suggest any? I can't see any, therefore I do not infer design. The pattern of the drops of rain. Same as before. A glacier: this is less random, but it can be easily explained, as far as I know, by well understood natural laws, with some random components. I am not an expert, but I cannot see in a glacier any special configuration which has a highly specific complexity which is not dependent on well understood natural laws. Therefore, I do not infer design. Could you suggest some complex functional configuration in a glacier which cannot be explained by explicit and well understood laws of physics? The snowflake I have added because it is an example of ordered pattern which could suggest design, but again the configuration is algorithmic, and its origin from law and randomness very well understood. No dFSCI here, too. Let's go to the 4 objects for which I infer design: A Shakespeare sonnet. Alan's comments about that are out of order. I don't infer design because I know of Shakespeare, or because I am fascinated by the poetry (although I am). I infer design simply because this is a piece of language with perfect meaning in english (OK, ancient english). Now, a Shakespeare sonnet is about 600 characters long. That corresponds to a search space of about 3000 bits. Now, I cannot really compute the target space for language, but I am assuming here that the number of 600 characters sequences which make good sense in english is lower than 2^2500, and therefore the functional complexity of a Shakespeare sonnet is higher than 500 bits, Dembski's UPB. As I am aware of no simple algorithm which can generate english sonnets from single characters, I infer design. I am certain that this is not a false positive. Similar considerations are good for Windows XP: here the number of functional bits is so big that no discussion is really necessary. Let's go to the two proteins. For ATP synthase, I have already computed a minimum of 1600 bits of dFSCI just for the alpha and beta subunits. You can find the reasoning here: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/four-fallacies-evolutionists-make-when-arguing-about-biological-function-part-1/ Point 3. Finally, the H3 histone. Here the resoning is very simple. Histones are extremely conserved proteins, and have a very important function in eukaryotes: buiding the nucleosome, which is the crucial center of many transcription regulation events. Human H3.1 is 136 AA long. Blasted against the molecule of Saccharomyces cerevisiae, there are 121 identities. IOWs, the molecule is perfectly conserved throughout the eukaryotes. Therefore, we can assume a minimum functional complexity of, just to be safe, more than 500 bits. Which is beyond Dembski's UPB, And certainly far beyond the threshold I have proposed many times for biological systems on our planet (150 bits). Therefore, I infer design. Obviously, both for ATP synthase and histone H3 I am aware of no algorithmic explanation for their origin. Can you give one?gpuccio
November 4, 2014
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Alan: "Saying some things clearly exhibit CSI without explaining which things and how this is established is not saying much." Are you really saying that I have never explained how to compute dFSCI? Must I repeat the same things at each post?gpuccio
November 4, 2014
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Silver Asiatic I'm creating my own set of blogs linked to an online mind mapping tool (Mind Meister). Learning the blogging stuff now, which includes moderating comments. Will provide a link to the nice folks here, as per BA77's request, when it gets ready for sharing it. :)curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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Dionisio - ok, thanks. Did you learn something interesting from the experiment? Or maybe it was just for fun, which is a good enough reason to try it.Silver Asiatic
November 4, 2014
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Astroman
As I have pointed out in more than one thread, ID proponents say that the who, when, where, and how questions come “after design is determined”.
That's right. It's a different branch of study and analysis.
ID proponents constantly claim that they have already demonstrably determined design in most or all things in the universe,
Could you offer a reference to that claim? For myself, I have never seen it. There are aspects of the universe that are explained by natural processes and others by design. So, I find it hard to believe that ID proponents are claiming that everything in the universe shows empirical evidence of having been designed by intelligence.
They also regularly proselytize the biblical God as the designer
If you're talking about various individuals who post on blog sites, that's one thing. If you're talking about ID research, however, what you said is not correct.
but when they’re asked the who, when, where, and how questions they use every cowardly and dishonest dodge in the book to squirm out of answering those questions.
As with any academic or scientific discipline, ID has the right to define its scope of study. The nature of the designer falls outside the scope of the ID project. ID has defined boundaries. It can't answer the questions that it hasn't done the research on. Does evolution include Origin of Life studies? Is that dishonest?Silver Asiatic
November 4, 2014
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curious lurker said: "Someone asked: “By whom? How? When?” Hasn’t it been stated on a number of occasions in different discussion threads that those questions (specially the first one) are not part of the core ID proposition? Why do some commenters insist in ignoring what others have written so clearly so many times? Is there a subtle agenda behind their questioning? Can someone explain this?" As I have pointed out in more than one thread, ID proponents say that the who, when, where, and how questions come "after design is determined". ID proponents constantly claim that they have already demonstrably determined design in most or all things in the universe, and they also claim that design was demonstrably determined loooong ago by people like Newton, Wallace, and many other dead people that they like to add to their ID-Creation coterie. They also regularly proselytize the biblical God as the designer but when they're asked the who, when, where, and how questions they use every cowardly and dishonest dodge in the book to squirm out of answering those questions.Astroman
November 4, 2014
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gpuccio and KF, Could the following questions somehow relate to the concepts behind CSI, dFCSI, FSCO/I?
What makes myosin VIII to become available right when it’s required for cytokinesis? Same question for actin. What regulatory networks + signaling pathways determine the precise timing? How does that relate to the circadian clocks? What genes are myosin and actin associated with? What signaling pathways trigger those genes to express those proteins for the cytokinesis? BTW, how do the transcription and translation processes for those two proteins look like? Are they straightforward or convoluted through some splicing and stuff like that? Are there chaperones involved in the post-translational 3D folding? Where are those proteins delivered to? How does that delivery occur? How does the myosin pull the microtubule along an actin filament? What other factors are involved in that process? How many of each of those proteins should get produced for that particular process? Any known problems in the cases of deficit or excess of each of them?
We all understand that we could face gazillion questions like these related to many separate or interrelated issues in systems biology. This was just a relatively easy example, kind of a small sneak preview of the entire movie. :) Thank you in advance for any comments on this.curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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Silver Asiatic
As I’m sure you’ve discovered, this is usually not just a friendly debate about trivial matters. The ID proposal, potentially, has a massive impact for society and at the personal level. It’s a clash of worldviews and it generates a lot of passion and, quite often, a lot of hostility on either side. With that, the agenda is not so subtle. For many, this battle has to end in a victory for their side. Perhaps it’s true, “all’s fair in love and war”. So, that might mean that it’s fair enough to simply ignore what ID advocates have said many times about their own area of study and insist that they’re dishonest if they don’t provide analysis on the identity of the designer.
Yes, sir! That's it!curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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Silver Asiatic, Dionisio is the same commenter as curious lurker. This was a kind of 'silly' experiment I tried for fun, after being away from here for a couple of weeks. :)curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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Hi Silver Asiatic: Thank you for answering my questions.curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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Alan Fox #364
But God created the world
If so, then the world was designed by intelligence. If you want to take that as your starting point, then you'd be pursuing something much different than the ID proposal.Silver Asiatic
November 4, 2014
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curious #382
Hasn’t it been stated on a number of occasions in different discussion threads that those questions (specially the first one) are not part of the core ID proposition?
Yes, exactly. The ID project has defined boundaries. It looks at empirical evidence.
Why do some commenters insist in ignoring what others have written so clearly so many times? Is there a subtle agenda behind their questioning? Can someone explain this?
Good questions. As I'm sure you've discovered, this is usually not just a friendly debate about trivial matters. The ID proposal, potentially, has a massive impact for society and at the personal level. It's a clash of worldviews and it generates a lot of passion and, quite often, a lot of hostility on either side. With that, the agenda is not so subtle. For many, this battle has to end in a victory for their side. Perhaps it's true, "all's fair in love and war". So, that might mean that it's fair enough to simply ignore what ID advocates have said many times about their own area of study and insist that they're dishonest if they don't provide analysis on the identity of the designer.Silver Asiatic
November 4, 2014
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Hi Dionisio: I understand your suggestions. Will try to remember them next time. Thank you! In this case, the text I quoted was copied from the end of the post # 364 which appears to be written by Alan Fox.curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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#382 curious lurker
Someone asked: “By whom? How? When?” Hasn’t it been stated on a number of occasions in different discussion threads that those questions (specially the first one) are not part of the core ID proposition? Why do some commenters insist in ignoring what others have written so clearly so many times? Is there a subtle agenda behind their questioning? Can someone explain this? Can we all be more serious on discussing real issues? These are not easy concepts we are discussing here. Can we try and approach these discussions with respect and seriousness, so we all can benefit from them? Thank you!
When you quote some text from another post, as you did when you wrote this: Someone asked: “By whom? How? When?” can you also indicate the exact post number you copied that text from? That would help some of us to see the quoted text within the context of the original post and the discussion it was associated with. Also, try to use some of the HTML tags and attributes available for posting your comments. It makes the text more readable. Thank you.Dionisio
November 4, 2014
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Alan, Maybe you or someone could come up with a working definition of the ToE. Now that would really be something.phoodoo
November 4, 2014
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Upright BiPed @ 383
ID proponent makes an observation.
glacier and sand not having a dFSCI is not an observation. It is a calculation. All I am asking is how do you calculate the dFSCI and find that it is zero or null. If dFSCI is just an subjective observation then I have no objection at all.Me_Think
November 4, 2014
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Have a good day. Maybe you or someone could come up with a working definition of CSI after work. How's the Web presentation of your semiotic argument going, BTW?Alan Fox
November 4, 2014
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ID proponent makes an observation. ID critic makes a objection. ID proponent asks what the objection has to do with the observation. ID critic responds "you tell me". - - - - - - - - :| I'm off to work...Upright BiPed
November 4, 2014
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Someone asked: "By whom? How? When?" Hasn't it been stated on a number of occasions in different discussion threads that those questions (specially the first one) are not part of the core ID proposition? Why do some commenters insist in ignoring what others have written so clearly so many times? Is there a subtle agenda behind their questioning? Can someone explain this? Can we all be more serious on discussing real issues? These are not easy concepts we are discussing here. Can we try and approach these discussions with respect and seriousness, so we all can benefit from them? Thank you!curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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Crick's biological information is operationally defined and CSI wrt biology = Crick's biological information.Joe
November 4, 2014
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CSI is operationally defined, Alan. OTOH your position still has nothing otherwise you would lead by example and you don't.Joe
November 4, 2014
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Oops. "Scientific"Alan Fox
November 4, 2014
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@ UB You tell me. I have tried to be clear that CSI and variants are effectively sclient if it gibberish. It's my contention CSI cannot be quantified until it is operationally defined. Can you or anyone do that?Alan Fox
November 4, 2014
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So you have no way of distinguishing sand from sand castle other than “looks designed to me”.
A pile of sand from a -- what? And what does this have to do with a pile of sand having no dFSCI?Upright BiPed
November 4, 2014
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Alan Fox:
So you have no way of distinguishing sand from sand castle other than “looks designed to me”.
Umm, no. Again Alan with his usual baby-style of argumentation.Joe
November 4, 2014
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Alan Fox:
Sorry if that seemed a little testy but the assertions that CSI AND variants are real and useful Concepts are a bit trying.
Only because you are an ignorant little baby. What does blind watchmaker evolution have to offer?
Saying some things clearly exhibit CSI without explaining which things and how this is established is not saying much.
Then it is a good thing that we say which things have CSI.Joe
November 4, 2014
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UB So you have no way of distinguishing sand from sand castle other than "looks designed to me". Bogus!Alan Fox
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