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Evolution driven by laws? Not random mutations?

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So claims a recent book, Arrival of the Fittest, by Andreas Wagner, professor of evolutionary biology at U Zurich in Switzerland (also associated with the Santa Fe Institute). He lectures worldwide and is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Sciences.

From the book announcement:

Can random mutations over a mere 3.8 billion years solely be responsible for wings, eyeballs, knees, camouflage, lactose digestion, photosynthesis, and the rest of nature’s creative marvels? And if the answer is no, what is the mechanism that explains evolution’s speed and efficiency?

In Arrival of the Fittest, renowned evolutionary biologist Andreas Wagner draws on over fifteen years of research to present the missing piece in Darwin’s theory. Using experimental and computational technologies that were heretofore unimagined, he has found that adaptations are not just driven by chance, but by a set of laws that allow nature to discover new molecules and mechanisms in a fraction of the time that random variation would take.

From a review (which is careful to note that it is not a religious argument):

The question “how does nature innovate?” often elicits a succinct but unsatisfying response – random mutations. Andreas Wagner first illustrates why random mutations alone cannot be the cause of innovations – the search space for innovations, be it at the level of genes, protein, or metabolic reactions is too large that makes the probability of stumbling upon all the innovations needed to make a little fly (let alone humans) too low to have occurred within the time span the universe has been around.

He then shows some of the fundamental hidden principles that can actually make innovations possible for natural selection to then select and preserve those innovations.

Like interacting parallel worlds, this would be momentous news if it is true. But someone is going to have to read the book and assess the strength of the laws advanced.

One thing for sure, if an establishment figure can safely write this kind of thing, Darwin’s theory is coming under more serious fire than ever. But we knew, of course, when Nature published an article on the growing dissent within the ranks about Darwinism.

In origin of life research, there has long been a law vs. chance controversy. For example, Does nature just “naturally” produce life? vs. Maybe if we throw enough models at the origin of life… some of them will stick?

Note: You may have to apprise your old schoolmarm that Darwin’s theory* is “natural selection acting on random mutations,” not “evolution” in general. It is the only theory that claims sheer randomness can lead to creativity, in conflict with information theory. See also: Being as Communion.

*(or neo-Darwinism, or whatever you call what the Darwin-in-the-schools lobby is promoting or Evolution Sunday is celebrating).*

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Comments
Alan Fox:
et if Gode created the World, surely the sand on the beach must be part of the design?
Being part of the design does not mean it was designed. A broken fog light is still part of the car it is on.
By whom? How? When?
Alan, arguing like a baby does not help you.Joe
November 4, 2014
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Enkidu:
No one ever said or implied ToE is right because it’s the scientific consensus.
What ToE? Could you please link to it or admit that it doesn't exist?
Just the opposite. ToE is the scientific consensus because the vast majority of scientists who study it are convinced by the huge amount of consilient evidence it has.
Only someone ignorant of the evidence could say that.Joe
November 4, 2014
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GP tells them that a glacier or pile of sand has no dFSCI. One of them stands forward to condescend "I have no idea how you would calculate the dFSCI in a glacier or pile of sand" It's perfect. :|Upright BiPed
November 4, 2014
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Gpuccio at 376 Sorry if that seemed a little testy but the assertions that CSI AND variants are real and useful Concepts are a bit trying. Saying some things clearly exhibit CSI without explaining which things and how this is established is not saying much. AFAlan Fox
November 4, 2014
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Gpuccio at 376 Sorry if that seemed a little testy but the assertions that CSI AND variants are real and useful Concepts are a bit trying. Saying some things clearly exhibit CSI without explaining which things and how this is established is not saying much.Alan Fox
November 4, 2014
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Being a lurker has certain advantages, one of which could be that one can see the debate from the sidelines and analyze the arguments without being pressured to comment on them soon. By posting a comment the lurker's status disappears. However, strong curiosity leads to break the lurker's silence and become a commenter. By now I have the perception that a few of the commenters in this blog are serious but others seem less interested in discussing anything. The heated arguments, loaded with 'name calling' and vulgarities are not interesting at all. At times the abundance of such senseless posts makes one to quit reading the whole thread. I have a few questions for gpuccio, who seems to be very educated, belongs in the very serious group and has demonstrated a very clear writing style. However, I don't expect gpuccio (or anybody else here) to answer the specific questions, but to tell if questions like these could be somehow associated with his definition of dFCSI? What makes myosin VIII to become available right when it's required for cytokinesis? Same question for actin. What genes are they associated with? What signals trigger those genes to express those proteins for the cytokinesis? BTW, how does the transcription and translation processes for those two proteins look like? Are they straightforward or convoluted through some splicing and stuff like that? Are there chaperones involved in the post-translational 3D folding? Where is it delivered to? How does that delivery occur? How does the myosin pull the microtubule along an actin filament? How many of each of those proteins should get produced for that particular process? Any known problems in the cases of deficit or excess? [note that the above questions were copied from another web site] Thank you!curious lurker
November 4, 2014
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gpuccio@366
The objects listed as designed are those which clearly exhibit dFSCI. The objects listed as non designed are those which do not.
Do you really believe we can calculate the dFSCI ? I see no way to calculate the dFSCI of say, glacier or Sand. Could you explain how you calculated ?Me_Think
November 4, 2014
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Alan: Frankly, I did not expect this kind of "arguments" from you. You should know better. I had given a procedure. I was asked to give a list, so I complied. The list is obviously obtained by the procedure. The objects listed as designed are those which clearly exhibit dFSCI. The objects listed as non designed are those which do not. That means that design cannot be inferred for them (it is not detectable). ID is about detectable design, not about design in general. You should know that very well. Moreover, you should know very well that a pattern is not enough to infer design. And what has God to do with all this? I hoped you were a more careful interlocutor.gpuccio
November 4, 2014
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logically_speaking Twisting my words, shameful! The thing is Enkidu, if you think that conformity means being correct, then I would point out that most people who are living today and who have ever lived believed in a creator God and conformed to some religion. Therefore by your own reasoning they must be right, right No one ever said or implied ToE is right because it's the scientific consensus. Just the opposite. ToE is the scientific consensus because the vast majority of scientists who study it are convinced by the huge amount of consilient evidence it has.Enkidu
November 3, 2014
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gpuccio writes:
Sand on a beach is not designed.
Yet if Gode created the World, surely the sand on the beach must be part of the design?
A Shakespeare sonnet is designed.
Funny way of putting it. Shakespeare composed and wrote sonnets. But God created the world and Shakespeare was part of the design so...
The pattern of the drops of rain is not designed.
But scientists are able to research patterns here. But God created the World so...
ATP synthase is designed.
By whom? How? When? But God created the World so...
A glacier is not designed.
But God created the World so...
Windows XP is designed.
By people. Some would claim not very intelligent ones, judging by how clunky it was. But God made people so...
A snowflake is not designed.
But snowflakes form into intricate designs under precise physical conditions. Who made those laws of nature? God of course!
Histone H3 is designed.
By whom? How? When? But God created the World so...Alan Fox
November 3, 2014
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Enkidu, Twisting gpuccio's words, shameful! The thing is Enkidu, if you think that conformity means being correct, then I would point out that most people who are living today and who have ever lived believed in a creator God and conformed to some religion. Therefore by your own reasoning they must be right, right?logically_speaking
November 3, 2014
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gpuccio There are few things in this world that I really despise. One of them is the appeal to conformism in thought. I see. You'd rather be unique and dead wrong rather than conform and be correct. That explains a lot of your silly assertions actually.Enkidu
November 3, 2014
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Enkidu at #333: There are few things in this world that I really despise. One of them is the appeal to conformism in thought.gpuccio
November 3, 2014
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Astroman at #335: "gpuccio, serious questions:" Serious answers. "What do you hope to accomplish by endlessly repeating your ID claims on one or a few obscure blogs?" I like intellectual confrontation about ideas which, for me, are important. "Why are you so afraid to submit your claims to Bio-Complexity, and to reputable scientific journals?" I am not afraid. I have no desire to do that. "What have you got to lose by trying?" I don't do things only because I have nothing to lose. I do things because I want to do them. "Why are you ID proponents so afraid to answer questions and actually demonstrate your allegedly accurate and reliable methods?" I answer for myself: I am not afraid at all. I answer all intelligent questions and always try to demonstrate my accurate and reliable methods. "Why are you ID proponents so afraid of naming a variety of designed vs. non-designed things in nature and demonstrating how you can scientifically determine the difference?" I answer for myself. I am not afraid at all. I believed that to give the procedure was a better answer. If you like a list, have a list. Sand on a beach is not designed. A Shakespeare sonnet is designed. The pattern of the drops of rain is not designed. ATP synthase is designed. A glacier is not designed. Windows XP is designed. A snowflake is not designed. Histone H3 is designed. Shall I go on? "Why are you ID proponents so dishonest about your religious and political motives and agenda?" I answer for myself. I have no religious or political agenda at all. I have never used a religious or political argument here to defend ID. Indeed, I don't like others doing that. I never speak of my religious, least of all political, ideas here. Very rarely, I have taken part in some philosophical or even religious debates here, without mixing them with the scientific aspects of ID. But even that has happened very rarely. One of my strongest beliefs is that science must not be conditioned by religious or philosophical ideas, as far as it is humanly possible (I also believe that cognitive bias can never be completely eliminated in any human cognitive activity). "Millions of hard working people are out there doing science and adding to useful knowledge everyday" And I respect them very much for that. I am a scientist too, although my field of activity is slightly different. "while you and the other ID proponents are bashing science and scientists" I answer for myself. I consider science one of the best human activities. I deeply despise scientism, which is only a bad philosophy, and a disgrace for true science. "and pushing your religious and political Wedge agenda." Is debating the ideas one believes in, in a public blog, an agenda? Well, I have always thought that it would be exciting to be a conspirator of some kind. Maybe I have succeeded without realizing it! :) "What are any of you contributing to the world in a positive way?" I answer for myself. What I can. But, certainly, I don't answer to you for that.gpuccio
November 3, 2014
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k said: "KS, do the words policy + advisor mean anything to you?" k, according to your claims you advised the previous Montserrat government(s) on policy matters yet you claim above that a bunch of things need to be fixed because of "long term consequences of policy errors". Sounds like the government of Montserrat and the people who live there would be a lot better off without your poor advice.Astroman
November 3, 2014
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Astroman
Silver Asiatic, in addition to a lot of other things you should learn that using the term “Darwinism” is a revealing demonstration of your lack of knowledge regarding modern Evolutionary Theory.
It's good that I have the opportunity to be taught by believers in modern Evolutionary Theory here every day. We had a lengthy discussion on the term "Darwinism" last month or so - it went on for about a week with 500 posts or so. Of course, some evolutionists disagree with your point of view but that's the way it works. There's no official, authoritative source for what "modern Evolutionary Theory" is. There's no official source that says "Darwinism" is an incorrect term. You may have a lot of knowledge in that area. If you'd like to post your credentials, I'd appreciate learning about your expertise and where you currently work. If not, you're an anonymous guy on this blog making claims about evolution and I have no reason to accept what you have to say - especially since I can cite scientists who know a lot more about evolutionary biology than you do (at least until you prove other wise) who disagree with what you have to say. So, the problem is in the evolutionary community itself. I can see that quite clearly every day. I'm open to whatever you have to say but what you said thus far was not convincing at all. But I appreciate hearing your opinions on this.Silver Asiatic
November 3, 2014
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LoL! @ astroboy. That is an all-time classic cowardly comeback. Good luck on your search for this alleged evolutionary theory.Joe
November 3, 2014
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Joe, assuming or hoping that certain people are bothered by whatever it is that you assume or hope they are bothered by is a really lame way to spend your life.Astroman
November 3, 2014
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Astroman, please stop talking about a modern evolutionary theory seeing that you cannot find it. Darwin is still the only one to come close to positing a theory of evolution.Joe
November 3, 2014
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astroman:
those are some hilarious and evasive examples you chose to represent “a variety of designed vs. non-designed things in nature”.
What? Those were valid examples.
I’m not asking about things that are done or made by humans and you know it.
Why not? It counts. My point is not everything has to be designed just because the universe was. Accidents would still happen. We would need something more to go on- for example "The Privileged Planet" has the Earth and its place being designed because sheer dumb luck doesn't cut it and there are many factors at play. However it doesn't say that the moons of Mars had to be designed. Those could have been captured without ID. The universe has its laws. Our solar system and our place in it has its evidences. But accidents still would happen. That is where the EF comes in.Joe
November 3, 2014
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Silver Asiatic, in addition to a lot of other things you should learn that using the term "Darwinism" is a revealing demonstration of your lack of knowledge regarding modern Evolutionary Theory.Astroman
November 3, 2014
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Rich:
Oh the joy of knowing what Joe F will or wont do before he does it.
I was going by what he already did, cupcake. What is your problem Richie pom-poms the cheering section?Joe
November 3, 2014
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astroman:
Millions of hard working people are out there doing science and adding to useful knowledge everyday
And we like that because the more they find out the better ID looks. Does that bother you?Joe
November 3, 2014
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Oh the joy of knowing what Joe F will or wont do before he does it. Designer be praised! http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55904963.jpgRich
November 3, 2014
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I asked: "Why are you ID proponents so afraid of naming a variety of designed vs. non-designed things in nature and demonstrating how you can scientifically determine the difference?" Joe responded: "We have. Do you think that all deaths are murders or do you think we can tell the difference? Are all fires arson or can we tell the difference? Are all rocks artifacts or can we tell the difference?" LOL, those are some hilarious and evasive examples you chose to represent "a variety of designed vs. non-designed things in nature". I'm not asking about things that are done or made by humans and you know it. And before you go off on another cowardly detour, I'm also not asking about things like bird nests, beaver dams, etc.Astroman
November 3, 2014
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LoL! @ Rich:
Its entirely plausible that two threads had commentary disabled because the “home team” was doing too well.
The game was over. All you team had left was to ignore and rant. We don't need that. You lost. Deal with it.
And that Andre wont talk to Joe F. about PCD at TSZ because of rude words.
Joe F won't even deal with the issue.
And that CSI / FIASCO is real despite your inability amongst yourselves to describe it / calculate it / determine if nature can create it / use it to detect design.
We have done that, Rich. Your willful ignorance is not an argument nor a refutation. Your trope might work on evo forums but it doesn't wash here.Joe
November 3, 2014
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Phoodoo #328
The whole thing is a mess, and that is why no one makes any attempt to quantize or create a dialog of how it could happen. No one attempts to say how it could happen in detail.
That's the way i see it also - an enormous mess. Victory is claimed after a minor, highly debatable point possibly reaches a stalemate, forgetting that scientists are walking away from Darwinism. No distinction is made with regards to the many, often conflicting proposed mechanisms. It's never admitted that even among the Darwinian faithful there are selectionists and those that favor genetic drift as primary (or even sole) driver of change. Internal debates in the biological community are covered-over with the claim "that's how science works". Every week there are "new findings" that "overturn previously held views" and these are downplayed as "nothing new". Claims of empirically validated evolutionary sequences are based on hypothetical constructs and on the premise of common descent (tautology). In the end, no detail is given to support the grand claims because "only creationists demand such detail" - obviously, evolutionists are satisfied with the barest, even contradictory, evidence. Convergent evolution fills numerous gaps with the claim that "evolution finds the same solutions in different species". Sure - the same wildly improbable solutions that is. So, yes -- it is a mess and nobody wants to have an honest dialogue about it. The more I read the passionate and ill-supported claims from evolutionists here (they have every opportunity to be convincing) the more absurdly wrong it appears. I find that on a daily basis here.Silver Asiatic
November 3, 2014
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Yes Joe. Have a cookie. Its entirely plausible that two threads had commentary disabled because the "home team" was doing too well. And that Andre wont talk to Joe F. about PCD at TSZ because of rude words. And that CSI / FIASCO is real despite your inability amongst yourselves to describe it / calculate it / determine if nature can create it / use it to detect design.Rich
November 3, 2014
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And more Richie pom-poms the cheering section. Rich, keith s has been refuted. Not even your cowardly and ignorant belligerence can save him.Joe
November 3, 2014
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If keith s could model unguided evolution producing objective nested hierarchies we would have something to discuss. But hey, he won't even deal with the fact that Darwin refuted his claims back in 1859. Sad, really.Joe
November 3, 2014
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