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Evolutionary biology rewrites the American Declaration of Independence

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I am currently reading a thought-provoking book titled, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Dr. Yuval Noah Harari, who has a Ph.D. in History from Oxford University and who now lectures at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Dr. Harari is no friend of religion, but he is quite frank in acknowledging that liberal humanism is founded on monotheistic beliefs, and that the current scientific consensus among evolutionary biologists is increasingly at odds with the tenets of liberal humanism.

In chapter 6 of his book, Dr. Harari contrasts two documents: Hammurabi’s Code (written in 1776 B.C.) and the American Declaration of Independence (written in 1776 A.D.). Under Hammurabi’s Code, society was viewed as a hierarchy: people were divided into two genders and three classes (superior people, commoners and slaves), each of differing monetary values. Children were the property of their parents, and could be killed as punishment for crimes committed by their parents, such as murder. Now, it is easy for us to recognize that the Babylonian division of people into superior and inferior classes was not based on any objective reality, but on a social myth that was widely accepted by people living at that time. But Dr. Harari argues that the belief, enshrined in the American Declaration of Independence, that all human beings are equal, is also a myth with no basis in reality. He writes:

Is there any objective reality, outside the human imagination, in which we are truly equal? Are all humans equal to one another biologically? Let us try to translate the most famous line of the American Declaration of Independence into biological terms:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

According to the science of biology, people were not ‘created’. They have evolved. And they certainly did not evolve to be ‘equal’. The idea of equality is inextricably intertwined with the idea of creation. The Americans got the idea of equality from Christianity, which argues that every person has a divinely created soul, and that all souls are equal before God. However, if we do not believe in the Christian myths about God, creation and souls, what does it mean that all people are ‘equal’? Evolution is based on difference, not on equality. Every person carries a somewhat different genetic code, and is exposed from birth to different environmental influences. This leads to the development of different qualities that carry with them different chances of survival. ‘Created equal’ should therefore be translated into ‘evolved differently’.

Just as people were never created, neither, according to the science of biology, is there a ‘Creator’ who ‘endows’ them with anything. There is only a blind evolutionary process, devoid of any purpose, leading to the birth of individuals. ‘Endowed by their creator’ should be translated simply into ‘born’.

Equally, there is no such thing as rights in biology. There are only organs, abilities and characteristics. Birds fly not because they have a right to fly, but because they have wings. And it’s not true that these organs, abilities and characteristics are ‘unalienable’. Many of them undergo constant mutations, and may well be completely lost over time. The ostrich is a bird that has lost its ability to fly. So ‘unalienable’ rights should be translated into ‘mutable characteristics’.

And what are the characteristics that evolved in humans? ‘Life’, certainly. But ‘liberty’? There is no such thing in biology. Just like equality, rights and limited liability companies, liberty is something that people invented and that exists only in their imagination. From a biological standpoint, it is meaningless to say that humans in democratic societies are free, whereas humans in dictatorships are unfree. And what about ‘happiness’? So far biological research has failed to come up with a clear definition of happiness or a way to measure it objectively. Most biological studies acknowledge only the existence of pleasure, which is more easily defined and measured. So ‘life, libery and the pursuit of happiness’ should be translated into ‘life and the pursuit of pleasure’.

So here is that line from the American Declaration of Independence translated into biological terms:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men evolved differently, that they are born with certain mutable characteristics, and that among these are life and the pursuit of pleasure.

Dr. Harari goes on to say that he has no argument with those who would contend that encouraging people to believe in the myth of equality will help create a stable and prosperous society, thereby creating an imagined order, which is neither a subjective mirage nor an objective fact, but rather, a publicly accepted fiction residing in the consciousness of many individuals, which enables large numbers of humans to co-operate effectively. He goes on to note, however, that Hammurabi’s Code, in which the social order was based on a shared belief in hierarchy, could be justified by the same line of reasoning.

Dr. Harari also notes that any social order requires what he calls ‘true believers’: in order for it to work, a large number of people – including people in the elite class and in the security forces – have to actually believe that the myth is true. “American democracy,” he writes, “would not have lasted 250 years if the majority of presidents and congressmen failed to believe in human rights.”

Dr. Harari also makes the interesting point that in order to change an imagined order, which is collectively held by the vast majority of citizens, we need to simultaneously changes the beliefs of millions of citizens. But since these citizens still need to function as a society, they will need to replace the myth they discarded with a new myth.

In a later chapter, Dr. Harari explores the disturbing social implications of evolutionary biology, whose findings do not support liberal humanism, but a radically different kind of humanism – evolutionary humanism – in which the ultimate goal of society is to encourage the evolution of human beings into a race of superhumans:

At the dawn of the third millennium, the future of evlutionary humanism is unclear. For sixty years after the end of the war against Hitler it was taboo to link humanism with evolution and to advocate using biological methods to ‘upgrade’ Homo sapiens. But today such projects are back in vogue. No one speaks openly about exterminating lower races or inferior people, but many contemplate using our increasing knowledge of human biology to create superhumans.

At the same time, a huge gulf is opening between the tentes of liberal humanism and the latest findings of the life sciences, a pull we cannot ignore much longer. Our liberal political and judicial systems are founded on the belief that every individual has a sacred inner nature, indivisible and immutable, which gives meaning to the world, and which is the source of all ethical and political authority. This is a reincarnation of the traditional Christian belief in a free and eternal soul that resides within each individual. Yet over the last 200 years, the life sciences have thoroughly undermined this belief. Scientists studying the inner workings of the human organism have found no sould there. They increasingly argue that human behavior is determined by hormones, genes and synapses, rather than by free will – the same forces that determine the behavior of chimpanzees, wolves, and ants. Our judicial and political systems largely try to sweep such inconvenient discoveries under the carpet. But in all frankness, how long can we maintain the wall separating the department of biology from the departments of law and political science?
(Emphases mine – VJT.)

How long, indeed?

Dr. Harari and I disagree profoundly on the human soul, and on the sufficiency of blind processes to explain the course of human evolution. Nevertheless, Dr. Harari is to be commended for his clearsightedness and frankness, in expounding the logic of evolutionary biology with perfect clarity. You cannot believe in the values enshrined in the American Declaration of Independence and at the same time, call yourself an evolutionary biologist. Which raises an interesting sociological question: why are American schools teaching a doctrine in their science classrooms which undermines the founding principles of their own society?

Thoughts?

Comments
>Dr. Harari and I disagree profoundly on the human soul How could something without any parts do anything at all? And how could something non-physical have any effect on our world to begin with? It either has an effect on things and is part of this world, or it has no effect and therefore it doesn’t matter. There really isn’t any alternative. Not to be rude, but It seems many people have of terrible habit of using magical ideas (“vital force”, “souls”, and “spirits”) to explain phenomena which they don’t understand. But such theories don’t really explain anything. They just kick the can down the road: If a “vital force” distinguishes living things from non-living things, how does this “vital force” work? What kind of parts does it have and how are they arranged? These kind of theories lack imagination because a thing with no parts can’t really do anything at all.max hodges
July 4, 2018
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In evolutionary terms [not my own] they might be more evolved and their moral code should be defended as having been selected for reproductive advantage.Silver Asiatic
January 9, 2015
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You don’t think Muslim extremists are ‘evolved apes’?
Devolved humans.Joe
January 9, 2015
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PPS: Or, if you want it in a nutshell:
Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(And yes, the link-up to what Hooker said is there.)kairosfocus
January 8, 2015
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PS: BTW, VS, here is a classic sumary of Christian Morality, that you would despise, by its chief proponent: ___________________ >> Matthew 5-7English Standard Version (ESV) The Sermon on the Mount 5 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. The Beatitudes 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. 7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons[a] of God. 10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Salt and Light 13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet. 14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. Christ Came to Fulfill the Law 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Anger 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[c] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[d] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[e] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.[f] Lust 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. Divorce 31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Oaths 33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[g] Retaliation 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,[h] let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. Love Your Enemies 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers,[i] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Giving to the Needy 6 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. The Lord's Prayer 5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. 7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.[j] 10 Your kingdom come, your will be done,[k] on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread,[l] 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.[m] 14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Fasting 16 “And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Lay Up Treasures in Heaven 19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust[n] destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! 24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.[o] Do Not Be Anxious 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[p] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Judging Others 7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you. Ask, and It Will Be Given 7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! The Golden Rule 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[q] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. A Tree and Its Fruit 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Build Your House on the Rock 24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” The Authority of Jesus 28 And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, 29 for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes. >> _________________ And if you imagine that every Christian every moment must live up to this, or it loses all grounds, you do not understand the difference between is and ought, and you do not understand the importance of moral struggle to the good.kairosfocus
January 8, 2015
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VS, strawman. The self evident is true, is seen to be so once properly understood, and is seen so on pain of patent absurdity on attempted denial (as opposed to, on prolonged, complex analysis). A good example from another domain is, 2 + 3 = 5, or || + ||| --> |||||. A useful summary of the point for morality starts with how we quarrel by appealing to a principle of fairness standing in moral governance, which is universally acknowledged. It even peeks out beneath the attempted dismissal you just made. A good example of the point in the moral domain is what I have now cited several times and which objectors, side trackers and strawman creators have consistently failed to address. Here, in grounding what would become modern liberty and democracy, in Ch 2 of the 2nd essay on civil govt, Locke cites Hooker in Ecclesiastical Polity:
. . . if I cannot but wish to receive good, even as much at every man's hands, as any man can wish unto his own soul, how should I look to have any part of my desire herein satisfied, unless myself be careful to satisfy the like desire which is undoubtedly in other men . . . my desire, therefore, to be loved of my equals in Nature, as much as possible may be, imposeth upon me a natural duty of bearing to themward fully the like affection. From which relation of equality between ourselves and them that are as ourselves, what several rules and canons natural reason hath drawn for direction of life no man is ignorant . . . [[Hooker then continues, citing Aristotle in The Nicomachean Ethics, Bk 8:] as namely, That because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like . . . ] [[Eccl. Polity,preface, Bk I, "ch." 8, p.80. Emphasis added.]
The same frame appears in Blackstone and he points to Justinian's Corpus Juris Civilis, which also picked up the point. We intuit our moral worth and expect to be treated in accord with that, which imposes a duty of reciprocity to moral equals as a direct corollary, one that is backed up by the testimony of sound consciences. Not, that one cannot kill or warp one's conscience, given enough effort, but the aberration will immediately be evident from its utter unreasonableness and inconsistency. Where also, if one imagines such a major faculty of conscious mindedness is delusional, then one walks into the trap of undermining rationality and mind across the board. For, if we live in a moral Plato's Cave world, we live in a Plato's Cave world. Patent absurdity in several ways in short. But then, evolutionary materialism already is long since in serious trouble with the mind, reason and knowledge, cf here on. And if you think that my pointing to such is a caricature, kindly read this:
The time has come to take seriously the fact [[--> This is a gross error at the outset, as macro-evolution is a theory (an explanation) about the unobserved past of origins and so cannot be a fact on the level of the observed roundness of the earth or the orbiting of planets around the sun etc.] that we humans are modified monkeys, not the favored Creation of a Benevolent God on the Sixth Day . . . We must think again especially about our so-called ‘ethical principles.’ The question is not whether biology—specifically, our evolution—is connected with ethics, but how. As evolutionists, we see that no justification of the traditional kind is possible. Morality, or more strictly our belief in morality, is merely an adaptation put in place to further our reproductive ends. Hence the basis of ethics does not lie in God’s will … In an important sense, ethics as we understand it is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get us to cooperate. It is without external grounding… Ethics is illusory inasmuch as it persuades us that it has an objective reference. This is the crux of the biological position. Once it is grasped, everything falls into place. [[Michael Ruse & E. O. Wilson, “The Evolution of Ethics,” Religion and the Natural Sciences: The Range of Engagement, , ed. J. E. Hutchingson, Orlando, Fl.:Harcourt and Brace, 1991.]
The problem is, that for ideological reasons, absurdities can become institutionalised, and entrenched in power. And can resort to the abuse of power to sustain themselves, through might and manipulation make 'right' tactics. As, we can readily see all around. And as over 100 millions of ghosts from the century just past warn us against. KFkairosfocus
January 8, 2015
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ffm Does patently clear equal self evidently true? patently clear requires some actual data to support it, self evident truth requires only the assertion that it is true to all but a psychopath or a king. But since God has not seen fit to wipe out humanity with a catastrophe we must be doing better than the preflood humanity.velikovskys
January 8, 2015
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In law accusation is nOT indictment. Why do you think it is.? That would make every accuser get the accused instant punishment with no need for trial.
google to the rescue:
in·dict·ment noun 1.NORTH AMERICAN; a formal charge or accusation of a serious crime. - "an indictment for conspiracy"; the action of indicting or being indicted. - "the indictment of twelve people who had imported cocaine" 2. a thing that serves to illustrate that a system or situation is bad and deserves to be condemned. - "these rapidly escalating crime figures are an indictment of our society"
and wikipedia
An indictment (/?n?da?tm?nt/ in-dyt-m?nt), in the common law system, is a formal accusation that a person has committed a crime. In jurisdictions that use the concept of felonies, the most serious criminal offence is a felony; jurisdictions that do not use the concept of felonies often use that of an indictable offence—an offence that requires an indictment.
So it seems pretty clear that in law an indictment is indeed an accusation-- a formal one. However, it is not something the gets instant punishment without the need for a trial.hrun0815
January 8, 2015
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Kf, VS, I would suggest to you that simple reading of the actual history will show that in the name of science, darwinist thought led many to accept the notions of superiority of certain races and classes, As apparently so did the Bible before Darwin, inequality and persecution predates Darwin. You seem to think that the justification is necessarily the motivation. and to the rise of a eugenics movement keyed to even the Darwin family in successive generations (including of course Galton), much less the ideas that we may find stressed in the infamous logos of the International conferences, cf here. You seem to be ignoring that eugenics was accepted by creationists as well, since you are a history buff ,what was the status of those victims of eugenics before Darwin? Note, the theme: Eugenics is the self-direction of human evolution. Note, humans have been self directing human evolution since there were humans, the difference in the the power of the state. Again you ignore the point that creationists who did not believe in evolution supported eugenics, It was not for nothing, that a chief spokesman against the movement when it was in its heyday, was precisely Christian thinker G K Chesterton. "Opposition to eugenics began even as the movement was being organized into a scientific discipline. By 1910, the equilibrium model developed by Godfrey N. Hardy and Wilhelm Weinberg disproved the claim that degenerate families were increasing the societal load of dysgenic genes. The Hardy-Weinberg equation also showed that sterilization of affected individuals would never appreciably reduce the percentage of mental defectives in society. At the same time, George Shull, at the Carnegie Station for Experimental Evolution, showed that hybrid corn plants are more vigorous than pure-bred ones. This refuted the notion that racial purity offers any biological advantage or that race mixing destroys "good" racial types." He was not alone. Time for a serious rethink. Unless you are willing to condemn Christianity because of alll the atrocities committed in its name then your position is built on quicksand.velikovskys
January 8, 2015
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rvb8
(Humour and satire as George Orwell noted, are the scourge of tyrrany, when you can laugh at them, their clothes fall off. This is why Islam fears the west, not because we can bring freedom and democracy, these are incidental, but because we have a long tradition of laughing and mocking all centres of power, be they, business, political, cultural or RELIGIOUS).
Satire and mocking is intended as an attack. It attempts to destroy the value or importance of its target. Attacks and attempts to destroy are the elements of warfare. We might say that mocking is "just words". But threats are "just words" also - and wars are started from an escalation of threats.
My point to any ‘moral’ religious person here, is to ask why would a god based morality condone, perhaps encourage such behaviour?
It might be easier to defend the materialist/evolutionary view. In that viewpoint, terrorists should be encouraged and defended for following their own evolved morality. I find it odd that defenders of societal freedom don't defend acts of terrorism on evolutionary grounds. Islam is growing in numeric strength in Europe. Islam has reproductive advantage and are therefore looks to be more evolved and selected to take over society. That should be a good thing in terms of evolution. Natural selection allows terrorism to win.
The laws and morality of an evolved ape have proven to be infinately prefferrable to those of a ‘jealous God’.
You don't think Muslim extremists are 'evolved apes'?Silver Asiatic
January 8, 2015
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rvb8- What happened in France is a tragedy. What people need to realize is that if you piss off emotionally unstable people bad things tend to happen. To me only imbeciles do things like that.Joe
January 8, 2015
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kairosfocus: Z, there are worldviews that advocate a fundamental want of moral worth and/or equality of people. Those are not the same thing. Someone might assign moral worth to all people, just more to some than others. Indeed, most people would protect their families at the expense of strangers. You still haven't defended your claim that denying moral equality among humans ends in absurdity.Zachriel
January 8, 2015
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rvb8 says, It is patently clear that with our evolving society we are actually becoming more moral. I say. Does patently clear equal self evidently true? peacefifthmonarchyman
January 8, 2015
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RVB8, The murders in Paris and others of like order under the false use of the name of God are very simply explained: "let us do evil that good may come." The Apostle Paul, whom I just quoted, immediately said of such thinking, that the condemnation of such is just. (He was replying to a slander.) Next, I suggest to those who think like that on a flimsy excuse about dishonouring their founder, that murder dishonours the image that God stamped unto man and will justly face his wrath -- a direct echo of the words of James in the NT. Third, this is a manifestation of exactly the failure of sober thought that Locke highlights by citing Hooker, and note that across yesterday I cited that in this thread something like three times. Beyond that (given known wider context in debates in recent years), I think you should take pause on feeding into a talking point line that would extend to Christians, what even most Muslims would not agree with. KFkairosfocus
January 8, 2015
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Z, there are worldviews that advocate a fundamental want of moral worth and/or equality of people. They immediately entail moral absurdities, as shown and/or linked. Given my discussion linked yesterday, here, please tell me what subjectivist answer you have to the grieving father of that kidnapped, abused, murdered child, that does not entail that a major aspect of mindedness is delusional, undermining -- yet again -- the credibility of mind on such premises. KFkairosfocus
January 7, 2015
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rvB8 In law accusation is nOT indictment. Why do you think it is.? That would make every accuser get the accused instant punishment with no need for trial. your accusation was based on , I presume sincere, error in reading my comment. Context should of been clear. You persist in falsely accusing me without moral cause. i stand by what i said, forgot now by this time, . i made no comment about israel. I don't agree they have any moral right to take another peoples land or even exist as a jewish state. Yet i believe its in Gods plan and a moral person can accept their existence based on the concept of new generations having been born and the original ones having died and the arabs likewise were not born in the land since their expulsion. thats how to justify, rightly, any invasion after the generation of invaders By the way there is no such thing as anti-semetism. all there is IS accusation of one identity towards another. Right or wrong, good or evil in intent. Every accusation should make its case in a trial before its declared true or not true. Thats the moral and legal law and stops false accusation which also would of helped the Jewish people in old Europe in not being murdered. Judge not least ye be Judged. That is before trial of coarse. Its also very unkind and unsporting. Peace..Robert Byers
January 7, 2015
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Whenever I read WJM my profundity meter blows a gasket. Today in Paris religious adherents to great Islamic morality, shot in cold blood 11 cartoonists, and satirists, of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. (Humour and satire as George Orwell noted, are the scourge of tyrrany, when you can laugh at them, their clothes fall off. This is why Islam fears the west, not because we can bring freedom and democracy, these are incidental, but because we have a long tradition of laughing and mocking all centres of power, be they, business, political, cultural or RELIGIOUS). You see, I strongly believe Mr WJM and kairros, that if you and your 'morality' had true power, then we citizens should truly be afraid. My point to any 'moral' religious person here, is to ask why would a god based morality condone, perhaps encourage such behaviour? It is patently clear that with our evolving society we are actually becoming more moral. It is the dregs of god and faith that always appear to be desperately pulling us back to a delusional fairy land of god and Moses, and 10, either absurdly obvious laws, or absurdly pointless. No! The laws and morality of an evolved ape have proven to be infinately prefferrable to those of a 'jealous God'.rvb8
January 7, 2015
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William J Murray @ 105
Child: “So, if it was legal, and if society said it was okay to bully others and take their stuff, then it wouldn’t be wrong?” Atheist father:
"That's right. Now let me ask you a few question. would you like to be bullied and have your stuff taken by other people? You wouldn't? Do you think all the other people who make up society along with you would like it? No? So what do you think are the chances society would decide that bullying and stealing are right?"
Child: “If society says that it’s okay to own slaves, or that it’s okay to treat women and children like possessions, then those things would be good?” Atheist father:
"Yes, they would. But what did we just discuss? That's right, about whether you or anyone else would like to be bullied or have their stuff stolen. Now, potential slaves are part of society. Women and children are part of society. Do you think many people really want to become slaves? Do you think many women and children want to be treated as possessions? Would you? No, I didn't think so"
Child: “Why does society get to say what is right and what is wrong?” Atheist father:
"Why shouldn't society get to say what is right and wrong for itself? Or put it another way. Supposing some really big guy came along with a really big gun and said, "I'll tell you what is right and wrong an anyone who doesn't like it gets blown away!" Would you prefer that or would you prefer that we get together and decide for ourselves?"
Child: “What if I don’t agree with what society says? If what society says is what makes a thing moral or immoral, then isn’t the fact that I disagree by definition an immoral position?” Atheist father:
"It certainly could be. Of course, if you were able to persuade enough people that you were right and they were wrong then yours would be the moral position, by definition."Seversky
January 7, 2015
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vjtorley @ 20
Hold it right there. You are half right: the theory of evolution does not prescribe. But it can certainly invalidate some prescriptive doctrines. If, for example, evolutionary biology were to establish that there is no clear dividing line between humans and other animals in terms of their capacities, and that the transition from the first hominids to Homo sapiens was gradual at every level (cognitive as well as biological), then that clearly would invalidate the doctrine that humans have inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness – and that other animals don’t.
Really? What is to prevent human beings in society deciding for themselves that they - and they alone - are all entitled to certain "inalienable rights"? What is to prevent them from extending those rights to other members of the animal kingdom if they so choose? Why shouldn't they decide such things for themselves?
Likewise, if science were to conclusively establish that the brain is a machine whose workings can be explained in a deterministic fashion from the bottom up, then there would be no room for the concept of free will, and hence no grounds for saying that humans are responsible for their actions, while animals are not.
Quantum theory suggests that there are no purely determistic systems. A largely determistic system could include a degree of free will. it could be capable of identifying and considering several different courses of action and deciding between them. If it could be shown that it could predict some of the consequences of a particular choice then ti could be held responsible for its actions.
But, you will object, what about evolutionary humanism, with its prescriptive doctrine that the ultimate goal of society is to encourage the evolution of human beings into a race of superhumans? How does one derive this from science? I would reply, with Ayn Rand, that while you cannot derive an “ought” from an “is”, you can certainly derive an “ought” from an “if”. Evolutionary biology tells us that some humans have genes that help make them more intelligent than others, and that this trait was the vital one that enabled humans to conquer the planet and become the dominant species. Evolutionary logic would therefore dictate that if you want to maintain your species’ dominance, you should try to cultivate intelligence – in order words, try and breed a race of superhumans. An evolutionary biologist would find it hard to fault that logic.
Sorry, it still doesn't work, neither for you nor Ayn Rand. Yes, our superior (in some ways) intelligence might be found to have a genetic basis. That still doesn't say anything about whether we should be top dogs. It doesn't say anything about being any kind of dog. It doesn't say anything about whether we should get more intelligent or live longer or take over the galaxy or exist at all. I'm sure most of us would like to live longer and be smarter - I know I'd sign up for a cabin on the first interstellar space cruiser - but that's just what we'd like. There's no 'ought' about it.
Seversky
January 7, 2015
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kairosfocus: I simply point the onlooker to the above across today, where I have had to successively correct you on equality vs some imagined superiority of an anointed king. Returning to the original point, you had said that denying moral equality among humans ends in absurdity. We pointed out that there are perfectly consistent world-views that do not extend moral equality, such as feudalism and monarchism. The moral value of humans is subjective. While there is broad agreement in the world that all humans have equal moral value, this is not a universally shared belief, certainly not over the course of history. There is nothing in logic that requires we assign moral equality to all humans. Rather, it is the result of a long cultural progression.Zachriel
January 7, 2015
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Z, I again point the onlooker to 27 above. That will show what JQA said, wider issues on the American founding, and the deeper question. KFkairosfocus
January 7, 2015
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Z, I simply point the onlooker to the above across today, where I have had to successively correct you on equality vs some imagined superiority of an anointed king. I had to start by making it plain that the Hebraic root of the Judaeo-Christian frame in fact shows monarchy as a dangerous compromise prone to tyranny, right from the outset. I had to point out that a symbolic or actual spiritual anointing has nothing to do with any innate superiority or immunity to falling into grave sin or even crime. Latterly, I had to take up a presentation of George III that tried to put up a blend of feudal and absolutist views, by highlighting the BoR and Glorious Revolution. And more. Please, think again. KFkairosfocus
January 7, 2015
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kairosfocus: I cited John Quincy Adams speaking specifically about the founding circle and generation (and particularly, Jefferson) — the specific context of the DoI of 1776. Sure. That explains why there was such a lively debate about slavery during the drafting of the Declaration of Independence and of the Constitution, because everyone obviously agreed.Zachriel
January 7, 2015
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Z, In 27 above, I cited John Quincy Adams speaking specifically about the founding circle and generation (and particularly, Jefferson) -- the specific context of the DoI of 1776. You have twisted the matter utterly out of context and have set up a strawman. KFkairosfocus
January 7, 2015
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kairosfocus: That George III may — for argument — have believed himself inherently superior to the American Colonists and may have held that they as inferiors had no unalienable rights (probably 100+ years anachronistic . . . ) would simply mean he was on that scenario clinging to an absurdity to promote injustice. The monarchist view was that the king was anointed by God, and that the stability of society depended on the relationship between the various classes. That's why Britain followed a very different path to democracy. kairosfocus: In short, your projection of absolutism on the situation of 1776 simply has no grounding in reality. We made no such claim. Rather, British society was structured at many levels for stability while providing various rights and privileges for each class. The squire defended his position in society just as much as did the king, and that meant the squire was defending the king because that was how he protected his own position. And anarchy was considered the worst possible outcome. French society was far more rigid and absolutist, so when the Revolution occurred, every institution was implicated by its dealings with the despot. The king had no allies.Zachriel
January 7, 2015
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William J Murray: Under atheism/materialism, why should anyone agree to this? Because they hold the view. Why else? William J Murray: If conscience is considered nothing more than a subjective feeling (albeit a strong one), then what “right” does one have to hold to their conscience if, by the same token, I feel strongly enough, and had the power to do so, I force my strong feelings on others about any number of things? "Right" is also subject to conscience. If the person feels strongly enough, she may believe she has right, even a duty, to respond. Because it is subjective, people reach different conclusions. However, most people in a particular culture share many of the same values, and that results in a relatively stable society. When cultures clash, then it may result in conflict.Zachriel
January 7, 2015
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Z, That George III may -- for argument -- have believed himself inherently superior to the American Colonists and may have held that they as inferiors had no unalienable rights (probably 100+ years anachronistic . . . ) would simply mean he was on that scenario clinging to an absurdity to promote injustice. Let me again remind of Locke's cite from Hooker's Ecclesiastical Polity in Ch 2 of the 2nd essay on civil gov't; which in part was an argument regarding the Revolution of 1688, establishing the Bill of Rights of the net year which destroyed vestiges of absolutism in England and Scotland. First, the essence of the BoR (still a main plank of the UK's small-c constitution):
no royal interference with the law. Though the sovereign remains the fount of justice, he or she cannot unilaterally establish new courts or act as a judge. no taxation by Royal Prerogative. The agreement of the parliament became necessary for the implementation of any new taxes freedom to petition the monarch without fear of retribution no standing army may be maintained during a time of peace without the consent of parliament.[5] no royal interference in the freedom of the people to have arms for their own defence as suitable to their class and as allowed by law no royal interference in the election of members of Parliament the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament "grants and promises of fines or forfeitures" before conviction are void. no excessive bail or cruel and unusual punishment may be imposed.
This shearing of royal prerogatives and blocking of absolute monarchy by making king and parliament of commoners partners in rule, finds a root in the clip from Hooker:
. . . if I cannot but wish to receive good, even as much at every man's hands, as any man can wish unto his own soul, how should I look to have any part of my desire herein satisfied, unless myself be careful to satisfy the like desire which is undoubtedly in other men . . . my desire, therefore, to be loved of my equals in Nature, as much as possible may be, imposeth upon me a natural duty of bearing to themward fully the like affection. From which relation of equality between ourselves and them that are as ourselves, what several rules and canons natural reason hath drawn for direction of life no man is ignorant . . . [[Hooker then continues, citing Aristotle in The Nicomachean Ethics, Bk 8:] as namely, That because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings [--> which is directly reflected in several BoR provisions, though of course 1594 or so is 100 years more or less ahead of when Locke wrote, though Justinian's Corpus Juris Civilis, resting on nigh on 1,000 y of Roman law, was another thousand years earlier]; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like . . . ] [[Eccl. Polity,preface, Bk I, "ch." 8, p.80, cf. here. Emphasis added.]
In short, your projection of absolutism on the situation of 1776 simply has no grounding in reality. And if it did, it would have represented an absurd position on George III's part. I note, in warning, that those whose agenda serve to undermine the foundations of justice, are thereby advancing a situation where the aggrieved can only appeal to the power of their clan lord or the like to protect them. We are playing with fire here. KFkairosfocus
January 7, 2015
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kairosfocus: why have you tried to conflate the US Founders with a later generation, nearly 100 years later? That speaks volumes We haven't conflated anything. You claimed that no one in the southern colonies justified slavery. We pointed out that the situation had obviously changed at least by 1861, and provided evidence in support of that claim. Odd that the founders forgot to free the slaves when they drafted the Constitution, even though, according to your comment above, no one defended slavery.Zachriel
January 7, 2015
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WJM - in practice people's consciences come to different conclusions. How do you know which one is "correct" if conscience is the ultimate arbiter?Mark Frank
January 7, 2015
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Z says:
If we agree that everyone has an equal right to life and liberty ..
Under atheism/materialism, why should anyone agree to this?
That seems to be the human condition.
That doesn't answer the question.William J Murray
January 7, 2015
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