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From the indoctrinate u files: Turns out, “teaching creationism” means teaching students to think

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But then what did you really expect? Honestly?

Caroline Crocker at AITSE is interviewed at BestSchools.org:

I began to entertain “politically incorrect views” while I was studying for my PhD. Basically, I did not see how evolution by random mutation and natural selection could lead to the kind of intricate nanotechnology that I was seeing inside a cell. Aspects of evolutionary theory conflicted with what I knew of science. I’ve heard people say that eventually we will figure out how mistakes in copying lead to increased information, but that belief takes more faith than I have. I think that it might make more sense to just evaluate the scientific evidence and follow where it leads rather than try to fit the new evidence about the copious amounts of information found in cells into a theory that was suggested over 150 years ago when cells were thought to be simple blobs of protoplasm.

When I began to teach, I noticed that the assigned textbooks were written in a way so as to encourage students to memorize, rather than critically assess, some of the information. I did not think this practice would lead to their success in future biology classes nor in their chosen careers in science. Therefore, in keeping with Yale recommendations on teaching controversial subjects, my habit was to teach students “not to argue from authority and to link their claims and assertions to appropriate evidence whenever possible.”

For example, when teaching about the function of steroids in cellular communication, I had the students go beyond the text and encouraged them to speculate on the possible side effects of hydrocortisone. In the same way, in the single cell biology lecture where I presented the information the textbook provided on evolution and the origin of life, I suggested that the students critically assess the claims made. I asked questions like, “Is microevolution is a legitimate ‘proof’ of macroevolution?” or “How much does the synthesis of a racemic mixture of individual amino acids in a closed system add to a discussion of the origin of life?” I encouraged them to think about what they were being taught, making it clear that disagreeing with the professor was okay—provided they backed their opinions up with science. The students enjoyed this method of teaching and clamored to get into my classes. Their letters can be found in my book Free to Think: Why Scientific Integrity Matters.

My first inkling of trouble was the day that my supervisor called me into his office and told me that I was going to be disciplined for allegedly “teaching creationism.”

Comments
Dude, TRY to stay focused. A change in allele frequency over time, within a population is evolution. If you have differential reproduction due to heritable variation, you have evolution. "Evolution" is NOT limited to universal common descent via blind, undirected chemical processes. Baraminology states that the diversity we observe today evolved via descent with modification from the originally Created Kinds.Joseph
November 4, 2011
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"How is baraminology anti-evolution?" Wow. A evolution supporting baraminologist. Common descent plus a young-earth creationist taxonomic system. Creative. I guess it depends how you define the two. From the baraminology study group: "what basis does the creationist have for assuming that the refined baramin concept is an accurate description of living things? A number of other Biblical considerations can help to clarify biological creations. The creation account itself can be used to argue for discontinuity among living things, but we must use it carefully. The creation of plants on Day Three, flying and swimming things on Day Five, and land animals on Day Six implies a fundamental discontinuity between these four (or three?) groups of creatures. At the very least, we may reject an evolutionary origin of these groups." So, you start with the Biblical story of genesis, and conclude flying things, swimming things, and land things cannot share evolutionary origins. Are bats, mice and whales unrelated? Mammalian physiology, morphology, genetics and the fossil record suggest otherwise. So baraminology and evolutionary biology are totally compatible?DrREC
November 4, 2011
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How is baraminology totally unscientific when it is supported by evidence? How is baraminology anti-evolution? BTW just because there isn't any scientific evidence for unioversal common descent- it looks like UCD to me isn't scientific- does not mean ID is anti-evolution. And I don't advocate baraminology I advocate EVIDENCE- so don't blame me just because the EVIDENCE suports baraminology.Joseph
November 4, 2011
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ScottAndrews2
If you wish to debate productively rather than just nitpicking, employ “generous reading.” That means that when Crocker says, “mistakes in copying lead to increased information,” you do not interpret that as her full understanding of evolutionary theory. It’s just a sentence she used
That one instance is more than damning enough to make my case. There are many more examples listed in the article and the links provided on the other thread about her misdeeds. Would you approve of a medical college professor telling med students "one day medicine may understand how this red stuff called blood circulates in our bodies, so we can't rule out that magic pixies do it!"? Does the pixie theory of blood circulation deserve equal time in a classroom? Bottom line still is, she got caught pushing her non-scientific Creationist claptrap in a class she was hired to teach science in. She deserved to get fired.GinoB
November 4, 2011
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I don't think I can have a serious discussion with someone who advocates teaching baraminology, which is held only by creationists, and is totally unscientific. You are puzzling Joe. Here you advocate baraminology, but on your site (WARNING: disturbing language!) you go to great lengths to describe how ID is not anti-evolution or common descent. http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/ (again, warning-curse words and character assaults) I can't square the two.DrREC
November 4, 2011
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GinoB, If you wish to debate productively rather than just nitpicking, employ "generous reading." That means that when Crocker says, "mistakes in copying lead to increased information," you do not interpret that as her full understanding of evolutionary theory. It's just a sentence she used. If you asked her for a full explanation of evolutionary theory, it's reasonable to think that she could explain it in detail, even while disagreeing with it. So you're not really addressing her position. What exactly did she teach students that you disagree with? That they should evaluate what they learn critically? That they should consider for themselves whether the interpretation of evidence they were shown was valid? That is quote-mining. It is not the same thing as quoting a sentence or two from the introduction to a research paper, when those sentences were deliberately written to express the authors' understanding, and do so in or out of context. Try again to address exactly what Crocker taught her students that you disagree with, or that amount to teaching creationism.ScottAndrews2
November 4, 2011
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"PhD or no that woman is a full fledged idiot" - Scientific rigour and succinctness themselves.Eugene S
November 4, 2011
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ScottAndrews2 GinoB: "Academic freedom doesn’t mean the freedom to teach the Earth is flat, or that leprechauns are real, or that the stork brings the babies."
If you disagree with something she said, state what it was and why you disagree with it.
I already did. Crocker gave this as her understanding of evolution: “eventually we will figure out how mistakes in copying lead to increased information." Which is the same stupid misunderstanding put forward by so many here at UD. It's not JUST random genetic changes (that she calls 'mistakes') that create new 'information' (how ever you wish to define it), it's the iterative process of variation filtered by selection with individuals retaining heritable traits. Science has known that this naturally occurring process can and does increase the complexity and 'information' of a genome and resultant phenotype for over 70 years now. If Crocker can screw up so badly on one of the most basic aspects of science she has no business teaching it.GinoB
November 4, 2011
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GinoB,
Academic freedom doesn’t mean the freedom to teach the Earth is flat, or that leprechauns are real, or that the stork brings the babies.
If you disagree with something she said, state what it was and why you disagree with it. Then other people can weigh your statements and determine whether they agree with you or not, and why, and perhaps respond. That is a discussion. What are we supposed to do with the above statement? It doesn't derive from anything we're discussing. It's pointlessly inflammatory. This is an excellent opportunity for you to demonstrate whether you wish to discuss or merely provoke.ScottAndrews2
November 4, 2011
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I encouraged them to think about what they were being taught, making it clear that disagreeing with the professor was okay—provided they backed their opinions up with science.
I'd say that was academic freedom in a nutshell. But of course, if she weighs the same as a duck...englishmaninistanbul
November 4, 2011
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ginob:
Sorry to be so harsh, but PhD or no that woman is a full fledged idiot. Anyone whose understanding of modern evolutionary theory is represented by statements like “eventually we will figure out how mistakes in copying lead to increased information”,...
That just happens to be what the theory posists- are you that stupid taht you don't know that?Joseph
November 4, 2011
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Hi Kelly, The Bible doesn't trump science but your position doesn't have anything to do with science.Joseph
November 4, 2011
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Here you go dmullenix I found some. First a video that merely points out the severe empirical deficiencies of neo-Darwinism, that you, of course, will not watch, but that you will complain about none-the-less:
Programming of Life - entire video www.youtube.com/watch?v=00vBqYDBW5s Programming of Life - video playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAFDF33F11E2FB840
as well dmullenix, here is some 'Christian Music' for you to not listen to, but to complain about none-the-less:
Hillsong - Mighty to Save - With Subtitles/Lyrics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-08YZF87OBQ
bornagain77
November 4, 2011
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ginob:
Crocker’s interview mentions Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, the documentary that claimed a bunch of people had been fired from their posts when in fact nothing of the sort happened.
And your evidence is?
Let’s pop over to the movie review site ‘Rotten Tomatoes’ and see what the consensus is….
Yeah their opinion matters- not...Joseph
November 4, 2011
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DrREC, WHAT is there to teach- with respect to evolution? We don't have any idea what mutations are responsible for what changes so the best that can be taught would be baraminology- ie slight changes and a wobbling stabity.Joseph
November 4, 2011
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dmullenix, what are you REALLY trying to say??? you don't like videos or Christian music??? :) But on this thread I was looking for where I 'spammed' videos and Christian music and I found this comment: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/from-the-indoctrinate-u-files-turns-out-teaching-creationism-means-teaching-students-to-think/comment-page-1/#comment-407391 As far as I can tell there are no videos or Christian music in the link, only scientific evidence, (I'll try to put videos and music in later especially for you If I think of any :) ), and furthermore no neo-Darwinian atheist has even attempted to answer the fact presented in the post I posted that they have ZERO substantiating evidence!!! Perhaps you feel 'science' is belittling others who disagree, and ignoring evidence that disagrees with atheism, but I think you are severely mistaken in this!!!bornagain77
November 4, 2011
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Never mind, found them.dmullenix
November 4, 2011
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Are comments closed? My last two entries have vanished.dmullenix
November 4, 2011
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Wow! If you're going to disappear Fossfur for humorously suggesting we should emulate Bornagain 77, what are you going to do with BA77? He really does bomb the comments with Youtube links and Christian music.dmullenix
November 4, 2011
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Whoa! If you banned Fossfur for humorously suggesting that we should emulate Bornagain 77, what are you going to do with BA77? He really does spam threads with Youtube links and Christian music. Are you going to disappear him too?dmullenix
November 4, 2011
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If she were teaching the earth were flat, there wouldn't be a controversey; that's obviously false. It would have been humorous to the adults in her class, and would have genuinely disqualified her as a scientist and an educator. No one would disagree - not even a Young Earth Creationsist, some of whom are quite competent geologists. What she did is point up real issues, major problems in current Darwian theory, ones that are glossed over, and ones that indicate it's either incomplete, or incorrect. To equivocate that with teaching that the earth is flat, or that the stork brings babies, is to take a position more similar to that taken in show trials conducted by bad regimes, than to honestly assess the issue at hand.arkady967
November 4, 2011
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F/N: Webmaster some comments seem to be appearing without numbers. Any ideas why?kairosfocus
November 4, 2011
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Onlookers, the record on the Dawkins et al blood libel issue -- and that has a very specific history of issues context, which is not legal -- is here. A note for record, as this thread is not one I was engaging. KFkairosfocus
November 4, 2011
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junkdnaforlife, fossfur is no longer with us for making what sounded like a thinly veiled threat to start a spamwave. Someone else is NLWU for making noises about legal action (on another thread). In either case, what would they expect? We share your distaste for feces fights, but they are not the only form of uncivil behaviour, unfortunately.News
November 4, 2011
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GinoB, right I didn't now Bot was gone, I hope they let him back however, I think with him in the discussions there is an overall net gain. But your talking to someone who comes from the trench warfare of debating religion in the open forums of craigslist so nothing bothers me. But that is the point, this is not my (nor your) venue, so we don't make the calls. A good rule of thumb is just never attack the person and from what I understand there should be no issue. It is tough for many at first because most other forums end up as feces fights as all is permitted. But your arguments will actually get tighter in the long run by exercising this.junkdnaforlife
November 3, 2011
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junkdnaforlife
GinoB, the best thing for a site is to have robust debate. The posters that contribute the highest quality anti-ID arguments (DrRec, drbot, e liddle, petrushka, Nick matzke etc) as far as I know, have never had posts deleted. At least I have never heard them complain. And I believe one of the last people to get banned from the site was actually pro-id.
You need to get with the program. News banned Dr. Bot from the site just this afternoon for the terrible crime of making a tongue-in-cheek comment (complete with smiley face) about having his barrister check libel laws against KF. This was after KF had spent the last two days screaming about libel. Fossfur was banned for making an equally harmless comment that we all should post YouTube Links and Christian music, as a way of emulating BA77's annoying but acceptable penchant for flooding the board with YouTube links and Christian music. Here is my 'vulgar attack' cleaned up the way News wants everything spun.
Sorry to be so harsh, but PhD or no that woman is a full fledged idiot genius of a Creationist. Anyone whose understanding of modern evolutionary theory is represented by statements like “eventually we will figure out how mistakes in copying lead to increased information”, and who thinks the theory first proposed 150 years ago is the state of knowledge of the theory today deserves to be fired given a big bonus by the DI from a teaching position. Academic freedom doesn’t for Creationists should certainly mean the freedom to teach the Earth is flat, or that leprechauns are real, or that the stork brings the babies.
Censorship worthy or no? A complaint about 'vulgar attacks on third parties' from the same person who has called Richard Dawkins every name imaginable except maybe a kitten-eating Devil worshiper. You'd need a backhoe to remove the hypocrisy from this room.GinoB
November 3, 2011
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GinoB, the best thing for a site is to have robust debate. The posters that contribute the highest quality anti-ID arguments (DrRec, drbot, e liddle, petrushka, Nick matzke etc) as far as I know, have never had posts deleted. At least I have never heard them complain. And I believe one of the last people to get banned from the site was actually pro-id.junkdnaforlife
November 3, 2011
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DrREC, for once you are right, the reporting is fairly even handed. I skipped the scripture, saw the theologically based 'bad design' quote, and mistakenly thought the entire article was going to be 'hit piece'.bornagain77
November 3, 2011
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I didn't see bias in the reporting. And the lead quote, the one that precedes Darwin's, is from the book of Isaiah. Did you miss that, or choose to lie?DrREC
November 3, 2011
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Nothing biased in that reporting eh DrRec??? ,,, Lead off quote to the article being a theologically based 'bad design' quote;: What a book a Devil's Chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering, low and horridly cruel works of nature. -- Charles Darwin I suppose one of these days they will get to actual evidence! :)bornagain77
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