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Gay marriage and the loss of civility

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In the wake of the recent Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage, Professor Jerry Coyne has authored a post in which he offers his thoughts on the ruling. In a telling passage which is remarkable for its myopia, he writes:

To those who oppose gay marriage, I say this: Is it really hurting you? What does an opponent have to lose if two homosexuals get married? I suppose they could say it could lead to the dissolution of society, but that’s clearly not the case.

Is it really hurting us? Yes, and for a very simple reason: from now on, those who oppose the Supreme Court’s decision will be branded as hateful bigots who are morally on a par with members of the Ku Klux Klan, despite the fact that most American blacks say gay rights are not the same as civil rights, and despite the fact that the Reverend Martin Luther King, America’s foremost civil rights activist, described the homosexual lifestyle as a “problem” in need of a “solution” – a “habit” stemming from a series of negative “experiences and circumstances.”

A Canadian commenter named Timocrates explains how bad things are going to get in America, in a response to philosopher Ed Feser’s brilliantly written blog article, Marriage and the Matrix (June 29, 2015):

Well, coming from Canada, let me warn my American friends about what you are soon going to be facing for anything remotely like denial of legitimacy or anything short of outright approval of homosexuality and all sexual deviance.

1. Social ostracism:
– In your workplace, where you are likely to be fired and not hired at all if you are known to have “controversial” views on homosexuality;
– You family. Friends stick out much longer than they will, but even they will become much, much more quiet and reserved and increasingly hesitant to help you.

2. Social madness and increased degeneracy:
– Polite social parties may well include the suggestion, nonchalantly, to consider throwing on some porn for entertainment;
– Men in women’s bathrooms in gyms, and they kick the people who try to intervene or complain about it out of the gym
– Endless sensitivity training in the workplace so everybody knows what they are and are not allowed to say or suggest to ensure a ‘safe and comfortable’ working environment ‘for everybody’

3. School torture
– Kids will begin learning about sex and how two moms and two dads are a normal kind of family as early as 6
– Sex-ed will begin as early as Grade 6, including descriptions of oral sex
– Any child who at any time identifies with any sex will be accommodated, whether bathroom or locker room

And the final stage that is now happening in Canada, the Trannies.

Transgender people will increasingly agitate that society, government, institutions and businesses facilitate their lies. They will agitate that dating sites and services simply portray them as their chosen sex without any warning to normal, unsuspecting users of services.

That last line is arguably the scariest for single people, especially single young men. We all know how a man is likely to respond after finding out she isn’t actually a she at all – and with gender change surgeries now, this may come later.

And here’s an excerpt from a poignant article on Patheos by Rebecca Hamilton, an 18-year member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives, titled, Gay Marriage Sets Friend Against Friend, Brother Against Brother (July 3, 2015):

I’m going to share my own experiences in trying to deal with the question of saving relationships in the face of gay marriage and abortion. I don’t have a magic bullet to offer. What I bring instead is a hard reality.

Here’s what I’ve learned in my own life about the question of keeping your gay friends and following Christ: You can’t do it. They won’t let you. And that’s it.

The deepest personal wounds I’ve suffered since I became a Christian have to do with gay friends that I loved and trusted with all my heart. Two of my gay friends turned on me in a sudden, absolute and public way.

One of them, in particular, I loved with all my heart. He was — and is — as dear to me as my own blood. We shared so many good things through the years. I trusted him and cherished him.

I never once tried to change him or argued with him about these differences in our beliefs. In fact, I tried to avoid talking to him about it altogether. When he realized that I did not support gay marriage, he flew into a rage and … well … it was a horrible experience.

Among other things, he accused me of lying to him because I hadn’t been more up front on the issue.
Then, he went on the internet and publicly attacked me.

The other friend turned on me over abortion. I know, gay men and the abortion industry seem to be bizarre allies, but the gay men I’ve known are pro abortion fanatics. In fact, a good many gay men work for Planned Parenthood.

I do not have one encouraging word to share with those of you who want to keep your relationships with gay people and still follow the Church. My experience is that, no matter how you try, you cannot keep your relationships with your gay friends and follow your faith. They will not let you.

Even sadder, my experience is that they do not just end the friendship. They then go out and do everything they can to hurt you.

I can honestly say that I have not retaliated. I have never broken the confidences they shared with me. I have never attacked them. I have never tried to hurt them. And I never will.

Representative Hamilton adds:

I know one homosexual person who has been willing to accept me as an individual and at least be professional friends with me. When I told her I opposed gay marriage, she said, “I would never try to force you to violate your personal morality.”

I was so grateful to her I almost cried.

But she is unique in my experience. And, as I said, we have a professional friendship, not a deep personal friendship.

Finally, in a recent article on RealClearReligion titled, Beware of the Gaystapo (July 6, 2015), Catholic author Mark Judge equates the treatment of Christians by the gay rights movement to a form of emotional abuse:

Christian America is being emotionally abused by the gay rights movement.

Emotional abuse is a sinister human reality, arguably more iniquitous in its slow-drip subtlety than outright physical abuse or political aggression. In emotional abuse a partner … is lured in by love and affection, only to have their spouse or significant other exert more and more psychological and spiritual control, then curdling into abuse. The abuser might start as a loving person with a slight edge of sarcasm, but over time they methodically pick apart the self-esteem of their partner. The occasional cutting quip becomes a steady stream of put-downs. Nothing the abused person can do is enough.

Eventually there is an atmosphere of chaos and unpredictability. Victims often have emotional breakdowns…

In his article, Judge chronicles the events leading up to this abuse:

In the beginning, advocates for gay marriage assured us that they loved America. The country wasn’t perfect, but mostly what gay activists wanted was the ability to express love without violent reprisal. They didn’t want to control the rest of us, or dictate terms or tell us what to believe. No one would lose their job or business because of gay marriage…

For a few years things went well. Gay people got to live more openly. There were more homosexual characters on television and in politics. States were debating gay marriage.

But then something changed. Liberals didn’t just accept civil unions, they demanded gay marriage — or else.

Anyone who didn’t only accept gay marriage but celebrate it was isolated as a hateful bigot. Bullying and gas-lighting of resisters became common. Gay marriage advocates ignored or denied that they had ever argued that no one would lose their job if gay marriage was passed… Like an abuser who refuses to ever acknowledge wrong doing, preferring to turn the tables on the abused, gay marriage advocates now refuse to answer the most simple questions. To ask “What is marriage?” is to be emotionally blackmailed (shame!), isolated (go back to the 1950s!) and bullied (damn right, you’ll lose your business).

Judge’s last question, “What is marriage?” gets right to the heart of the matter. It is interesting to note that the Supreme Court majority, in their recent ruling (Obergefell vs. Hodges), nowhere attempted to provide a clear definition of the term “marriage.” Instead, we were told that the meaning of marriage has evolved over time, despite documents cited by dissenting Chief Justice John Roberts, showing that the term “marriage” has been understood for centuries to mean: the lifelong union of a man and a woman.

Much play has been made in the media of Elena Kagan’s facile argument that if marriage were really about procreation, as traditionalists supposedly hold, then there should be laws on the books prohibiting elderly couples from typing the knot, as there is no chance that they will procreate. But the argument overlooks two very important points.

First, what defines marriage is not procreation , but its essentially monogamous character: it is a union of one man and one woman, for life. (There have of course been societies which tolerated polygamy, but the practice invariably results in the exploitation of women. What’s more, even in societies where the practice is allowed, it is relatively uncommon: the vast majority of men have one wife.) Now, there are heterosexual couples who have what they call “open marriages,” these are relatively uncommon, and even today in America, 90% of people still regard adultery as morally wrong. However, the great majority of gay “marriages” are not sexually monogamous: they are open relationships. And even if there are some gay couples practicing monogamy, I know of no gay couple who are willing to declare that open relationships between gays (or straight people, for that matter) are not real marriages. For this reason alone, then, a strong case can be made on legal grounds for refusing to recognize gay marriage: doing so would inevitably force people to publicly sanction relationships in which sexual monogamy is no longer even recognized as an ideal. That would in turn mean that schoolchildren are no longer taught that married people should be faithful to one another until death do them part.

Second, even if it is not the case that every marriage is potentially procreative, it is certainly true that the institution of marriage would not exist, were it not for the fact that humans procreate sexually. In a hypothetical world where intelligent life-forms reproduced asexually, there would be no marriage, since there would be no need for it. Why, then, do we allow elderly couples to wed? Simple enough: because the bond between them is of the same sort as that existing between couples who wed when they were young, had children, and have now grown old. In both cases, the couples in question physically express their love in exactly the same way, and under the same conditions: they promise to be faithful to each other until death do them part. Gay marriage does not even get a foot in the door here: the physical expression of their love is quite different, and there is usually no intention to remain sexually monogamous.

In his recent post, Professor Coyne argues that people who oppose gay marriage must do so because they regard it as un-Biblical and/or unnatural. But the argument I put forward in the foregoing paragraphs made no mention of the Bible or of natural law. All it assumed was that marriage is essentially monogamous – a sentiment still upheld by the vast majority of Americans.

But I can safely bet that gay rights advocates in America will make no attempt to respond to arguments like the one I have put forward above, in civil terms. Ridicule, scorn and abuse are weapons which suit their cause better, and no attempt must be spared to make their opponents look absurd. If Professor Coyne wants to know how the legalization of gay marriage has hurt ordinary people who oppose it, I can sum it up in one sentence: thoughtful public discussions of the pros and cons of gay marriage will no longer be possible, because one side has been demonized.

What do readers think?

Comments
daves:
My wife is quite conservative and would never live with someone out of wedlock (neither would I, although I’m not so conservative).
Sounds like a personal problem.
Also, being married has some important legal implications, I believe, that would not apply if we were unmarried partners living together.
Yeah,cuz legal implications are important to people who are in love and inseparable.Virgil Cain
July 6, 2015
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daves- You can spend you life with someone and you don’t have to marry that person.
My wife is quite conservative and would never live with someone out of wedlock (neither would I, although I'm not so conservative). Also, being married has some important legal implications, I believe, that would not apply if we were unmarried partners living together.daveS
July 6, 2015
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daves- You can spend you life with someone and you don't have to marry that person. I know unmarried couples that have been living together longer than I have been married.Virgil Cain
July 6, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
daves- why get married if you weren't going to have children?
I met someone I wanted to spend my life with.daveS
July 6, 2015
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daves- why get married if you weren't going to have children?Virgil Cain
July 6, 2015
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Did I mention society? No. Read what's in front of you. I referred specifically to homosexuality: the starting point. What you are pleased to call, 'gayness', another bizarre misnomer, with so many drunkards, drug addicts and suicides. People who are genuinely proud, don't flaunt it in people's faces all the time. They behave modestly or they lose respect. Homosexuals however know they are trying to 'swim upstream', hence the desperation in the guise of triumphalism.Axel
July 6, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
Zero-fitness relationships fly in the face of the almighty natural selection. Why would any society support such a thing?
Our society does, fortunately for me. I got married knowing ahead of time that I wasn't going to have any children.daveS
July 6, 2015
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Zero-fitness relationships fly in the face of the almighty natural selection. Why would any society support such a thing?Virgil Cain
July 6, 2015
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vjtorley,
If Professor Coyne wants to know how the legalization of gay marriage has hurt ordinary people who oppose it, I can sum it up in one sentence: thoughtful public discussions of the pros and cons of gay marriage will no longer be possible, because one side has been demonized. What do readers think?
I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, I am willing to bet that within 25 years, most people will have a hard time understanding why gay marriage was not allowed in parts of the USA until 2015. And we will be fine; society will not have fallen apart. Gays and lesbians will simply have the same right to choose a life companion that I had.daveS
July 6, 2015
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, despite the fact that most American blacks say gay rights are not the same as civil rights,
If if that were true so what? We dont determine a minority group's freedom by asking another minority group. Bigots are dumb.Starbuck
July 6, 2015
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Is it really hurting us? Yes, and for a very simple reason: from now on, those who oppose the Supreme Court’s decision will be branded as hateful bigots who are morally on a par with members of the Ku Klux Klan
Huh? I don't know about you, but I don't decide who's being a bigot based on Supreme Court decisions.
despite the fact that most American blacks say gay rights are not the same as civil rights, and despite the fact that the Reverend Martin Luther King, America’s foremost civil rights activist, described the homosexual lifestyle as a “problem” in need of a “solution” – a “habit” stemming from a series of negative “experiences and circumstances.”
Yes, because those who are victims of one form of bigotry can't themselves be guilty of other forms of bigotry. I personally don't believe that it's necessarily bigotry to believe that marriage should only be between a man and woman, but stuff like this certainly counts:
Transgender people will increasingly agitate that society, government, institutions and businesses facilitate their lies.
goodusername
July 6, 2015
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Yep. There is also an association apparently between satanists (whose attentions I sometimes feel) and the paedophile ring of top UK politicians and others, including Jimmy Saville, the now-deceased Enoch Powell, Cyril Smith and MI5; the latter, notably, re the Kincora Boys Home in Northern Ireland, hoping, unsuccessfully, as it transpired to be able to blackmail some Protestant politicians. The info I have is just from Googling. --------- Yes, vh, just vile. Particularly, when you consider that unbalanced parental care will have given many of them a bad start.Axel
July 6, 2015
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putting the mental illness of homosexuality aside, the mere fact that our society is now purposefully denying children an actual mom and an actual dad just shows how immature and selfish we've become.vh
July 6, 2015
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VJT: I appreciate your concern. (Feser has spoken well, BTW: http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2015/06/marriage-and-matrix.html.) Now, given the sort of 4th generation lawfare ruthless radicals have already undertaken, leading to destructive fines in response to reasonable request to respect conscience, we here at UD have to be particularly concerned that things said even in comment threads can and will be twisted into Orwellian lawfare demands to say the politically correct: 2 + 2 = whatever The Party requires, Mr Smith. The root issues then are that any discussion needs to be very restrained and insistent on freedom of conscience, also that we are under moral government which entails that we are in a world where there is a world-foundational IS that properly grounds OUGHT. As repeatedly highlighted, there is just one serious candidate: the inherently good Creator God, a necessary and maximally great being worthy of ultimate loyalty and the reasonable service of doing the good in accord with our evident and manifest nature. In that context, it is quite manifest that our creation order is naturally and clearly evident and that the only coherent and morally reasonable understanding of marriage is shaped by the biology of maleness and femaleness, linked to the requisites of sound child nurture. Nor is such open to revision. As Jesus of Nazareth so aptly summarised:
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7 ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,[a] 8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Precisely because these sort of thoughts are now utterly politically incorrect, they will be derided, mocked, slandered and viciously targetted by out of control radical activists hell-bent on wrenching the foundations of our civilisation out of what is patently reasonable. All in the false name of rights and respect for equality -- all the time, the foundations of OUGHT are being discarded and dismissed. I think things will have to crash so hard and destructively, that the damage cannot be spun (cf. here on Ac 27 as a lesson for democratic gov't: http://kairosfocus.blogspot.com/2013/01/acts-27-test-1-on-celebrating-new-year.html ), for there to be hope of recovery from the ongoing march of folly. If, the crash is not fatal. Finally, because of the lawfare hazard, I suggest to you that this thread will require very careful monitoring. This will be my only comment in this thread. KFkairosfocus
July 6, 2015
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"Homosexuality, surely the ultimate commitment to homogeneity" With cis-genders alone, there can now be male-male, male-female and female-female marriages? How is this a more homogeneous society than before?REC
July 6, 2015
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It is the deliberate and shameless mendacity and hatred of the truth of their lobbyists that seems to be completely unique. Breathtaking. Apparently the film of that Harvey Milk character and the story they peddle about Matthew Sheppard are travesties of the truth. And what a transparent lie to equate physical inheritance of black skin with the choice of sodomy by what would be the large majority of them. It's not rocket science: the incidence in the vast US prison complex is said to be phenomenal. They play at 'marriage', homosexual style, like little children playing 'mummies and daddies'. Yes, and even adopting children, to that end. Homosexuality, surely the ultimate commitment to homogeneity, yet they claim to be champions of diversity, heterogeneity and rainbows. With their constant brandishing of rainbows in our faces, they remind me of the joke of the older generations in the sixties, that the youngsters seemed to be labouring under the misapprehension that they had invented sex. Not to speak of 'love', though it doesn't seem to be of the self-denying kind; rather some of them seem to prefer to dress up as nuns in mockery of them. We are just as familiar with rainbows as homosexuals, and the truth, rather, is that, if they had their way, they would paint all those beautiful rainbows just the one colour. And I doubt it would be white. Then again... it's probably the one colour they would. Pure, virginal white. They scoff at the notion of 'pink power', but they know it is the degenerate, super-rich, ultra worldlings of the 'deep state' that has been empowering them, but it will all end in tears before bed-time for them. Not the quiet ones who just want to get on with their own lives, and not seek to tyrannize the public, but the sociopathic and psychopathic activists and lobbyists.Axel
July 6, 2015
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"However, the great majority of gay “marriages” are not sexually monogamous: they are open relationships." Can you point me to a recent study that demonstrates this? Then, to make your point, we'd need to compare that to the percent of straight marriages that are sexually monogamous (open or discordant-with one partner in the dark)? If the goal of marriage is monogamy, should the state mandate divorce for adulterers, and restrict them from marrying in the future? And a hint-If you want rational discussion, and not to be demonized by the other side, skip gross slurs like "Tranny" and suggesting that "a ‘safe and comfortable’ working environment ‘for everybody’" is the end of civilization.REC
July 6, 2015
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But I can safely bet that gay rights advocates in America will make no attempt to respond to arguments like the one I have put forward above, in civil terms. Ridicule, scorn and abuse are weapons which suit their cause better, and no attempt must be spared to make their opponents look absurd.
Bet on it.Mung
July 6, 2015
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I have argued against gay marriage for years. I advocate a philosophy of "limited government". Something the Founding Fathers of this country understood. Marriage laws were originally designed to primarily protect women and children from irresponsible husbands. In a "gay marriage" which one needs the protection? I see no compelling reason for government to get involved in such a private relationship unless it is to control disease that threatens society. Those who have advocated this intrusion of government will likely be sorry. What I know is that gay activists will not rest until we all bend the knee and kiss the ring.smordecai
July 6, 2015
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