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Gay marriage and the loss of civility

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In the wake of the recent Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage, Professor Jerry Coyne has authored a post in which he offers his thoughts on the ruling. In a telling passage which is remarkable for its myopia, he writes:

To those who oppose gay marriage, I say this: Is it really hurting you? What does an opponent have to lose if two homosexuals get married? I suppose they could say it could lead to the dissolution of society, but that’s clearly not the case.

Is it really hurting us? Yes, and for a very simple reason: from now on, those who oppose the Supreme Court’s decision will be branded as hateful bigots who are morally on a par with members of the Ku Klux Klan, despite the fact that most American blacks say gay rights are not the same as civil rights, and despite the fact that the Reverend Martin Luther King, America’s foremost civil rights activist, described the homosexual lifestyle as a “problem” in need of a “solution” – a “habit” stemming from a series of negative “experiences and circumstances.”

A Canadian commenter named Timocrates explains how bad things are going to get in America, in a response to philosopher Ed Feser’s brilliantly written blog article, Marriage and the Matrix (June 29, 2015):

Well, coming from Canada, let me warn my American friends about what you are soon going to be facing for anything remotely like denial of legitimacy or anything short of outright approval of homosexuality and all sexual deviance.

1. Social ostracism:
– In your workplace, where you are likely to be fired and not hired at all if you are known to have “controversial” views on homosexuality;
– You family. Friends stick out much longer than they will, but even they will become much, much more quiet and reserved and increasingly hesitant to help you.

2. Social madness and increased degeneracy:
– Polite social parties may well include the suggestion, nonchalantly, to consider throwing on some porn for entertainment;
– Men in women’s bathrooms in gyms, and they kick the people who try to intervene or complain about it out of the gym
– Endless sensitivity training in the workplace so everybody knows what they are and are not allowed to say or suggest to ensure a ‘safe and comfortable’ working environment ‘for everybody’

3. School torture
– Kids will begin learning about sex and how two moms and two dads are a normal kind of family as early as 6
– Sex-ed will begin as early as Grade 6, including descriptions of oral sex
– Any child who at any time identifies with any sex will be accommodated, whether bathroom or locker room

And the final stage that is now happening in Canada, the Trannies.

Transgender people will increasingly agitate that society, government, institutions and businesses facilitate their lies. They will agitate that dating sites and services simply portray them as their chosen sex without any warning to normal, unsuspecting users of services.

That last line is arguably the scariest for single people, especially single young men. We all know how a man is likely to respond after finding out she isn’t actually a she at all – and with gender change surgeries now, this may come later.

And here’s an excerpt from a poignant article on Patheos by Rebecca Hamilton, an 18-year member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives, titled, Gay Marriage Sets Friend Against Friend, Brother Against Brother (July 3, 2015):

I’m going to share my own experiences in trying to deal with the question of saving relationships in the face of gay marriage and abortion. I don’t have a magic bullet to offer. What I bring instead is a hard reality.

Here’s what I’ve learned in my own life about the question of keeping your gay friends and following Christ: You can’t do it. They won’t let you. And that’s it.

The deepest personal wounds I’ve suffered since I became a Christian have to do with gay friends that I loved and trusted with all my heart. Two of my gay friends turned on me in a sudden, absolute and public way.

One of them, in particular, I loved with all my heart. He was — and is — as dear to me as my own blood. We shared so many good things through the years. I trusted him and cherished him.

I never once tried to change him or argued with him about these differences in our beliefs. In fact, I tried to avoid talking to him about it altogether. When he realized that I did not support gay marriage, he flew into a rage and … well … it was a horrible experience.

Among other things, he accused me of lying to him because I hadn’t been more up front on the issue.
Then, he went on the internet and publicly attacked me.

The other friend turned on me over abortion. I know, gay men and the abortion industry seem to be bizarre allies, but the gay men I’ve known are pro abortion fanatics. In fact, a good many gay men work for Planned Parenthood.

I do not have one encouraging word to share with those of you who want to keep your relationships with gay people and still follow the Church. My experience is that, no matter how you try, you cannot keep your relationships with your gay friends and follow your faith. They will not let you.

Even sadder, my experience is that they do not just end the friendship. They then go out and do everything they can to hurt you.

I can honestly say that I have not retaliated. I have never broken the confidences they shared with me. I have never attacked them. I have never tried to hurt them. And I never will.

Representative Hamilton adds:

I know one homosexual person who has been willing to accept me as an individual and at least be professional friends with me. When I told her I opposed gay marriage, she said, “I would never try to force you to violate your personal morality.”

I was so grateful to her I almost cried.

But she is unique in my experience. And, as I said, we have a professional friendship, not a deep personal friendship.

Finally, in a recent article on RealClearReligion titled, Beware of the Gaystapo (July 6, 2015), Catholic author Mark Judge equates the treatment of Christians by the gay rights movement to a form of emotional abuse:

Christian America is being emotionally abused by the gay rights movement.

Emotional abuse is a sinister human reality, arguably more iniquitous in its slow-drip subtlety than outright physical abuse or political aggression. In emotional abuse a partner … is lured in by love and affection, only to have their spouse or significant other exert more and more psychological and spiritual control, then curdling into abuse. The abuser might start as a loving person with a slight edge of sarcasm, but over time they methodically pick apart the self-esteem of their partner. The occasional cutting quip becomes a steady stream of put-downs. Nothing the abused person can do is enough.

Eventually there is an atmosphere of chaos and unpredictability. Victims often have emotional breakdowns…

In his article, Judge chronicles the events leading up to this abuse:

In the beginning, advocates for gay marriage assured us that they loved America. The country wasn’t perfect, but mostly what gay activists wanted was the ability to express love without violent reprisal. They didn’t want to control the rest of us, or dictate terms or tell us what to believe. No one would lose their job or business because of gay marriage…

For a few years things went well. Gay people got to live more openly. There were more homosexual characters on television and in politics. States were debating gay marriage.

But then something changed. Liberals didn’t just accept civil unions, they demanded gay marriage — or else.

Anyone who didn’t only accept gay marriage but celebrate it was isolated as a hateful bigot. Bullying and gas-lighting of resisters became common. Gay marriage advocates ignored or denied that they had ever argued that no one would lose their job if gay marriage was passed… Like an abuser who refuses to ever acknowledge wrong doing, preferring to turn the tables on the abused, gay marriage advocates now refuse to answer the most simple questions. To ask “What is marriage?” is to be emotionally blackmailed (shame!), isolated (go back to the 1950s!) and bullied (damn right, you’ll lose your business).

Judge’s last question, “What is marriage?” gets right to the heart of the matter. It is interesting to note that the Supreme Court majority, in their recent ruling (Obergefell vs. Hodges), nowhere attempted to provide a clear definition of the term “marriage.” Instead, we were told that the meaning of marriage has evolved over time, despite documents cited by dissenting Chief Justice John Roberts, showing that the term “marriage” has been understood for centuries to mean: the lifelong union of a man and a woman.

Much play has been made in the media of Elena Kagan’s facile argument that if marriage were really about procreation, as traditionalists supposedly hold, then there should be laws on the books prohibiting elderly couples from typing the knot, as there is no chance that they will procreate. But the argument overlooks two very important points.

First, what defines marriage is not procreation , but its essentially monogamous character: it is a union of one man and one woman, for life. (There have of course been societies which tolerated polygamy, but the practice invariably results in the exploitation of women. What’s more, even in societies where the practice is allowed, it is relatively uncommon: the vast majority of men have one wife.) Now, there are heterosexual couples who have what they call “open marriages,” these are relatively uncommon, and even today in America, 90% of people still regard adultery as morally wrong. However, the great majority of gay “marriages” are not sexually monogamous: they are open relationships. And even if there are some gay couples practicing monogamy, I know of no gay couple who are willing to declare that open relationships between gays (or straight people, for that matter) are not real marriages. For this reason alone, then, a strong case can be made on legal grounds for refusing to recognize gay marriage: doing so would inevitably force people to publicly sanction relationships in which sexual monogamy is no longer even recognized as an ideal. That would in turn mean that schoolchildren are no longer taught that married people should be faithful to one another until death do them part.

Second, even if it is not the case that every marriage is potentially procreative, it is certainly true that the institution of marriage would not exist, were it not for the fact that humans procreate sexually. In a hypothetical world where intelligent life-forms reproduced asexually, there would be no marriage, since there would be no need for it. Why, then, do we allow elderly couples to wed? Simple enough: because the bond between them is of the same sort as that existing between couples who wed when they were young, had children, and have now grown old. In both cases, the couples in question physically express their love in exactly the same way, and under the same conditions: they promise to be faithful to each other until death do them part. Gay marriage does not even get a foot in the door here: the physical expression of their love is quite different, and there is usually no intention to remain sexually monogamous.

In his recent post, Professor Coyne argues that people who oppose gay marriage must do so because they regard it as un-Biblical and/or unnatural. But the argument I put forward in the foregoing paragraphs made no mention of the Bible or of natural law. All it assumed was that marriage is essentially monogamous – a sentiment still upheld by the vast majority of Americans.

But I can safely bet that gay rights advocates in America will make no attempt to respond to arguments like the one I have put forward above, in civil terms. Ridicule, scorn and abuse are weapons which suit their cause better, and no attempt must be spared to make their opponents look absurd. If Professor Coyne wants to know how the legalization of gay marriage has hurt ordinary people who oppose it, I can sum it up in one sentence: thoughtful public discussions of the pros and cons of gay marriage will no longer be possible, because one side has been demonized.

What do readers think?

Comments
Zachriel
That would be a legal definition. Such marriages were considered “absolutely void” and “unnatural alliances”. Virginia Code 1873 §1: All marriages between a white person and a negro … shall be absolutely void without any decree of divorce or other legal process.
Interesting. Thank you. This is more evidence that the Constitution means nothing to the Supreme Court when it decides to go its own way: If it has undue hostility against blacks, it deprives them of their basic rights by redefining marriage in excessively exclusive terms; if it has undue affection for gays, it grants them rights they don't even have by redefining marriage in excessively inclusive terms. In the hands of tyrants, Judicial review becomes pure totalitarianism. Perhaps it should be abolished.StephenB
July 8, 2015
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Andre I have gay friends on facebook and have never experienced what you're describing. It probably says more about your taste in friends. (But, then again, I long ago stop believing anything you post.)goodusername
July 8, 2015
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Andre thinks we should base public policy on his gay "facebook friends." Why does this sound suspiciously like, "I'm not racist, I have black friends." Any of you have anything better?REC
July 8, 2015
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Andre, What if, what if, what if.... What if a guy wants to marry his car!?! OMG society!!! Lets ban car ownership right now. Come back to us when 75% of people under 35 are asking for something, and we'll worry about it then. http://www.pewforum.org/2015/06/08/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/REC
July 8, 2015
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REC I assume you have some gay friends? Go onto their Facebook pages and have a look. Then in conversation with a group of them listen to what they have to say. The gay group of friends I have although married. Yes it's legal here in SA are not in monogamous relationships....Andre
July 8, 2015
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Oops: Polygamy -> polygyny above.daveS
July 8, 2015
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Andre,
I wonder now that gay marriage is out of the way and the green hippies will be in full force to give animals personhood status I wonder how Zachriel, daves and Co will respond when this law is passed and two people who love each other want to get married. Hopefully they won’t be bigots about it. Where does this marriage thing stop gents?
I expect some difficult questions will arise from this decision, no doubt. Polygamy/polyandry looks like it will come up next. What I find interesting is that in arguing against gay marriage, i.e., a marriage between two consenting adult humans, the anti side often brings up hypothetical marriages involving other species, children, etc. As if two consenting adult humans should not be allowed to marry because you should not be allowed to marry your dog. Keep in mind this is what we're talking about.daveS
July 8, 2015
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2 days ago, I addressed the argument in the original post. No reply: VJT posted “However, the great majority of gay “marriages” are not sexually monogamous: they are open relationships.” Can you point me to a recent study that demonstrates this? Then, to make your point, we’d need to compare that to the percent of straight marriages that are sexually monogamous (open or discordant-with one partner in the dark)? If the goal of marriage is monogamy, should the state mandate divorce for adulterers, and restrict them from marrying in the future?" I'll add: If the goal of marriage is reproduction, should marriage after menopause be restricted?REC
July 8, 2015
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I wonder now that gay marriage is out of the way and the green hippies will be in full force to give animals personhood status I wonder how Zachriel, daves and Co will respond when this law is passed and two people who love each other want to get married. Hopefully they won't be bigots about it. Where does this marriage thing stop gents?Andre
July 8, 2015
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On a discussion of gay marriage. Virgil Cain: pedophiles, murderers and rapists ... zero-fitness people. Zachriel
July 8, 2015
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KF: the unstated but apparently deeply rooted implication of the rather offensive racial/civil rights parallels being made is that we are dealing with genetically programmed in-stamped aspects of being rather than an ethical debate about morally governed and ethically questionable behaviour and linked habits/attitudes) Last I checked,religious choice is not genetically determined either.velikovskys
July 8, 2015
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As for homosexuals in the military, I am all for it. That is the best place for zero-fitness people.Virgil Cain
July 8, 2015
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Regardless of whether genetics or biology in general has any influence on homosexuality, you surely must accept that gays and lesbians have historically not enjoyed the same freedoms as heterosexual people, and have suffered a great deal of persecution.
Regardless of whether genetics or biology in general has any influence on criminal behavior, you surely must accept that pedophiles, murderers and rapists have historically not enjoyed the same freedoms as non-criminal people, and have suffered a great deal of persecution.Virgil Cain
July 8, 2015
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KF,
the unstated but apparently deeply rooted implication of the rather offensive racial/civil rights parallels being made is that we are dealing with genetically programmed in-stamped aspects of being rather than an ethical debate about morally governed and ethically questionable behaviour and linked habits/attitudes). KF
Regardless of whether genetics or biology in general has any influence on homosexuality, you surely must accept that gays and lesbians have historically not enjoyed the same freedoms as heterosexual people, and have suffered a great deal of persecution. Various countries are now in the process of establishing protections for some of those freedoms. I don't see why it's offensive to compare this to other civil rights movements centered around race; clearly there are going to be parallels. For example, in the US, one's right to marry and to serve in the military varied depending on race and sexual preference, and that's no longer the case. Incidentally, for the USAians here especially, has anyone heard the phrase "gays in the military" recently? I remember a lot of handwringing about the decision to repeal Don't ask, don't tell less than four years ago, but it seems the issue has essentially disappeared.daveS
July 8, 2015
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I am on vacation, so I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments posted so far, so let me only comment on the OP. From the standpoint of gays and lesbians, civility vanished from this arena long ago. The social conservatives’ entire complaint can be summarized with two words: hypocrisy and chutzpah. There is nothing they worry that gays or lesbians might do to Christians that Christians haven’t done FOR YEARS to gays and lesbians. There is no consequence that Christians would suffer that Christians haven’t inflicted on gays and lesbians FOR YEARS. Christians have inflicted social ostracism; and legal and institutionalized denigration and punishments on gays and lesbians for years. Having sown evil, social conservatives now are bracing to reap their whirlwind. But let us be clear, not all Christians will suffer; some have already acknowledged their errors and proclaimed their support of those they once mistreated. They will fare well enough. It is those Christians who deny the past and persist in hateful behaviors who will take the greatest punishments. It is only fair. I don’t support hateful behavior against Christians, but to whine about it now is pure chutzpah.
Judge’s last question, “What is marriage?” ...
The definitional strategy utterly failed because it was unrealistic. It treats word meanings as fixed and immutable while out in the real world the meaning of words has always been fluid. And who makes these changes? Scholars and dictionary officials? No, it’s young people; young adults who play with language to identify with their crowd and to take a dig at their elders. They twist and skew language, driving it forward. So social conservatives tell these young adults that an entire class of people they know, people they are friends with, people they admire are not entitled to marry BECAUSE THE DICTIONARY SAYS SO? This strategy was doomed from the start.
Ridicule, scorn and abuse are weapons which suit their cause better, and no attempt must be spared to make their opponents look absurd.
More hypocrisy. sean s.sean samis
July 8, 2015
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StephenB: Can you provide any evidence that the American South once defined marriage as one man, one woman, of the same race? That is not the same thing as passing laws against interracial marriage. That would be a legal definition. Such marriages were considered "absolutely void" and "unnatural alliances".
Virginia Code 1873 §1: All marriages between a white person and a negro ... shall be absolutely void without any decree of divorce or other legal process.
Kinney v. Commonwealth: This unmistakable policy of the legislature founded, I think, on wisdom and the moral development of both races, has been shown by not only declaring marriages between whites and negroes absolutely void, but by prohibiting and punishing such unnatural alliances with severe penalties.
The justification was that the races were created and separated by God, so should remain separate.
Loving v. Virginia: Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.
Zachriel
July 8, 2015
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F/N: Pardon an exception to my no comment here policy by way of informative footnote through a link on My Genes Made Me Do It (as, the unstated but apparently deeply rooted implication of the rather offensive racial/civil rights parallels being made is that we are dealing with genetically programmed in-stamped aspects of being rather than an ethical debate about morally governed and ethically questionable behaviour and linked habits/attitudes). KFkairosfocus
July 8, 2015
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'This situation is fairly easy to analyze. It’s rampant subjectivism in action: Marriage means whatever I want it to mean, the constitution says whatever I want it to say, and reality is whatever I want it to be.' That is why, StephenB, the terms, 'bigoted' and 'bigotry' have ceased to constitute words of the English language for me. The moment I see either of those words, I see the word, 'homosexual', so that any other context in which the former appears, immediately ceases to be of interest. This is not at the conscious, rational level, it's just the effect of the constant bombardment of the misuse of those words by homosexual lobby. A kind of shell-shock. The mere sight of the word immediately occludes its true meaning or the possibility that it might be figuring in terms of its correct meaning.Axel
July 8, 2015
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Zachriel
Marriage in the American South used to be defined as one man, one woman, of the same race.
Can you provide any evidence that the American South once defined marriage as one man, one woman, of the same race? That is not the same thing as passing laws against interracial marriage.StephenB
July 7, 2015
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It doesn’t mention race either.
We are one species, Zachriel. Meaning one race.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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anthropic: But redefining marriage isn’t at all like racism. Marriage in the American South used to be defined as one man, one woman, of the same race. In any case, you neglected to answer. If a business is open to the public, but the owner claims that his religion forbids whites and blacks from mixing, should they be legally allowed to refuse service? https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maxc1zdlBQ1rg5m9yo1_1280.jpg anthropic: All societies have had one man/one woman marriage for thousands of years Um, no. anthropic: And the Bible never commands white people to disassociate with black people. Many people have disagreed with that assessment. In any case, not everyone follows the Bible, and not everyone who follows the Bible is monogamous. Virgil Cain: nothing about marriage. It doesn't mention race either.Zachriel
July 7, 2015
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REC, It's not a law. What's to repeal?Mung
July 7, 2015
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UD tries a post on Obergefell, ends up at Griswold. Would you favor repealing it?REC
July 7, 2015
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Harry @50, you are right, of course. If the sexual faculty has no purpose, then how and with whom it is used becomes irrelevant. If, on the other hand, the Creator designed that faculty to propagate the species and create a loving bond between husband and wife, then any other use is unnatural and, therefore, wrong. All the organs in the human body, including the reproductive organs, have their proper role to play. If Justice Kennedy, the subjectivist, decides that liberty means the right to define the liver as an organ that pumps blood (and he is liable to do that at any time), the fact remains that its intended purpose is to filter out toxins. I wonder if Kennedy would go to a doctor who defines liberty the same way he does.StephenB
July 7, 2015
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daves:
On that note, I’ll step back for a while and let others contribute to the thread.
Yes, now we know that you cherry pick to suit your needs.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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daves:
Well, now that the visitation rules have been updated and gay marriage is legal everywhere in the US, hopefully these heartbreaking incidents will occur much less often.
It all depends on the scenario. Even heterosexual couples face the same thing.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
Hospitals can deny visitation, daves. And that is regardless of sexual orientation.
Well, now that the visitation rules have been updated and gay marriage is legal everywhere in the US, hopefully these heartbreaking incidents will occur much less often.
They are going against God’s will. Not very christian of them.
On that note, I'll step back for a while and let others contribute to the thread.daveS
July 7, 2015
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Hospitals can deny visitation, daves. And that is regardless of sexual orientation. Heck our family couldn't see our father until the hospital said it was OK and even then we were only allowed mere minutes and only one person at a time. And not everyone who was there got to see him.
Lots of Christians get married when there is no possibility of producing children.
They are going against God's will. Not very christian of them.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
What hospital does that?
Jackson Memorial Hospital for one. The hospital that Kate Fleming was admitted to as well (I can't find the name of the hospital now). Hospital visitation regulations were updated by the President in 2011 to correct this problem, but as I posted above, some would like to send this back to the states.
Bible-believing Christians should be fruitful and multiply. That is the only reason to get married in the first place.
No. I knew a Christian gentleman who got married at the age of 90 and his bride was in her late 80s. Lots of Christians get married when there is no possibility of producing children.daveS
July 7, 2015
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vjtorley, Thanks for the link to Feser's article. It was very good. What I haven't seen much of in commentary on same-sex marriage, or in commentary on the recent decree of our national rulers, the Supreme Court, on same-sex marriage, are answers to the question, "How did we get here?" A few thoughts on that: -- Almost ubiquitously these days, heterosexual married couples use artificial contraception, thereby disconnecting the fulfillment of their natural sexual desires from their natural result: procreation. This practice is what separated the concept of procreation from the concept of marriage, not homosexual activism. It paved the way for advocates of same-sex marriage. After all, if those with heterosexual inclinations can satisfy their desires and do so in a manner that renders their sexual activity completely sterile, how is that any different from homosexuals who love each other having sterile sexual relations? Why not same-sex marriage? How can one call homosexual relations unnatural and the use of artificial contraception natural? They are both unnatural or they are both "natural." -- The loss of respect for the lives of innocent children (on an ongoing basis, a third of humanity's children are wiped out by surgical abortion and abortifacient contraception, a shocking number of the victims being older and more viable than patients routinely cared for in newborn intensive care units) has made it acceptable to use children as laboratory rats in a grand, never before attempted in the history of humanity, social experiment: Let's see how children, in general, turn out who are adopted and raised by two men or two women, without a mother or without a father. Nobody knows what will be the typical result. Will it be emotional confusion and dysfunction? Will they have normal social skills? Will they have any idea what a natural family should be like if they desire to have one? Will they desire to have one? Will they typically be happy, well adjusted human beings? But hey, what does it matter? They are just children -- use them as lab rats. God created human sexuality with a plan for its use. Contemporary society has thrown that plan out and spit on it. I can't help but think this will have the most terrible of consequences.harry
July 7, 2015
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