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Gay marriage and the loss of civility

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In the wake of the recent Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage, Professor Jerry Coyne has authored a post in which he offers his thoughts on the ruling. In a telling passage which is remarkable for its myopia, he writes:

To those who oppose gay marriage, I say this: Is it really hurting you? What does an opponent have to lose if two homosexuals get married? I suppose they could say it could lead to the dissolution of society, but that’s clearly not the case.

Is it really hurting us? Yes, and for a very simple reason: from now on, those who oppose the Supreme Court’s decision will be branded as hateful bigots who are morally on a par with members of the Ku Klux Klan, despite the fact that most American blacks say gay rights are not the same as civil rights, and despite the fact that the Reverend Martin Luther King, America’s foremost civil rights activist, described the homosexual lifestyle as a “problem” in need of a “solution” – a “habit” stemming from a series of negative “experiences and circumstances.”

A Canadian commenter named Timocrates explains how bad things are going to get in America, in a response to philosopher Ed Feser’s brilliantly written blog article, Marriage and the Matrix (June 29, 2015):

Well, coming from Canada, let me warn my American friends about what you are soon going to be facing for anything remotely like denial of legitimacy or anything short of outright approval of homosexuality and all sexual deviance.

1. Social ostracism:
– In your workplace, where you are likely to be fired and not hired at all if you are known to have “controversial” views on homosexuality;
– You family. Friends stick out much longer than they will, but even they will become much, much more quiet and reserved and increasingly hesitant to help you.

2. Social madness and increased degeneracy:
– Polite social parties may well include the suggestion, nonchalantly, to consider throwing on some porn for entertainment;
– Men in women’s bathrooms in gyms, and they kick the people who try to intervene or complain about it out of the gym
– Endless sensitivity training in the workplace so everybody knows what they are and are not allowed to say or suggest to ensure a ‘safe and comfortable’ working environment ‘for everybody’

3. School torture
– Kids will begin learning about sex and how two moms and two dads are a normal kind of family as early as 6
– Sex-ed will begin as early as Grade 6, including descriptions of oral sex
– Any child who at any time identifies with any sex will be accommodated, whether bathroom or locker room

And the final stage that is now happening in Canada, the Trannies.

Transgender people will increasingly agitate that society, government, institutions and businesses facilitate their lies. They will agitate that dating sites and services simply portray them as their chosen sex without any warning to normal, unsuspecting users of services.

That last line is arguably the scariest for single people, especially single young men. We all know how a man is likely to respond after finding out she isn’t actually a she at all – and with gender change surgeries now, this may come later.

And here’s an excerpt from a poignant article on Patheos by Rebecca Hamilton, an 18-year member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives, titled, Gay Marriage Sets Friend Against Friend, Brother Against Brother (July 3, 2015):

I’m going to share my own experiences in trying to deal with the question of saving relationships in the face of gay marriage and abortion. I don’t have a magic bullet to offer. What I bring instead is a hard reality.

Here’s what I’ve learned in my own life about the question of keeping your gay friends and following Christ: You can’t do it. They won’t let you. And that’s it.

The deepest personal wounds I’ve suffered since I became a Christian have to do with gay friends that I loved and trusted with all my heart. Two of my gay friends turned on me in a sudden, absolute and public way.

One of them, in particular, I loved with all my heart. He was — and is — as dear to me as my own blood. We shared so many good things through the years. I trusted him and cherished him.

I never once tried to change him or argued with him about these differences in our beliefs. In fact, I tried to avoid talking to him about it altogether. When he realized that I did not support gay marriage, he flew into a rage and … well … it was a horrible experience.

Among other things, he accused me of lying to him because I hadn’t been more up front on the issue.
Then, he went on the internet and publicly attacked me.

The other friend turned on me over abortion. I know, gay men and the abortion industry seem to be bizarre allies, but the gay men I’ve known are pro abortion fanatics. In fact, a good many gay men work for Planned Parenthood.

I do not have one encouraging word to share with those of you who want to keep your relationships with gay people and still follow the Church. My experience is that, no matter how you try, you cannot keep your relationships with your gay friends and follow your faith. They will not let you.

Even sadder, my experience is that they do not just end the friendship. They then go out and do everything they can to hurt you.

I can honestly say that I have not retaliated. I have never broken the confidences they shared with me. I have never attacked them. I have never tried to hurt them. And I never will.

Representative Hamilton adds:

I know one homosexual person who has been willing to accept me as an individual and at least be professional friends with me. When I told her I opposed gay marriage, she said, “I would never try to force you to violate your personal morality.”

I was so grateful to her I almost cried.

But she is unique in my experience. And, as I said, we have a professional friendship, not a deep personal friendship.

Finally, in a recent article on RealClearReligion titled, Beware of the Gaystapo (July 6, 2015), Catholic author Mark Judge equates the treatment of Christians by the gay rights movement to a form of emotional abuse:

Christian America is being emotionally abused by the gay rights movement.

Emotional abuse is a sinister human reality, arguably more iniquitous in its slow-drip subtlety than outright physical abuse or political aggression. In emotional abuse a partner … is lured in by love and affection, only to have their spouse or significant other exert more and more psychological and spiritual control, then curdling into abuse. The abuser might start as a loving person with a slight edge of sarcasm, but over time they methodically pick apart the self-esteem of their partner. The occasional cutting quip becomes a steady stream of put-downs. Nothing the abused person can do is enough.

Eventually there is an atmosphere of chaos and unpredictability. Victims often have emotional breakdowns…

In his article, Judge chronicles the events leading up to this abuse:

In the beginning, advocates for gay marriage assured us that they loved America. The country wasn’t perfect, but mostly what gay activists wanted was the ability to express love without violent reprisal. They didn’t want to control the rest of us, or dictate terms or tell us what to believe. No one would lose their job or business because of gay marriage…

For a few years things went well. Gay people got to live more openly. There were more homosexual characters on television and in politics. States were debating gay marriage.

But then something changed. Liberals didn’t just accept civil unions, they demanded gay marriage — or else.

Anyone who didn’t only accept gay marriage but celebrate it was isolated as a hateful bigot. Bullying and gas-lighting of resisters became common. Gay marriage advocates ignored or denied that they had ever argued that no one would lose their job if gay marriage was passed… Like an abuser who refuses to ever acknowledge wrong doing, preferring to turn the tables on the abused, gay marriage advocates now refuse to answer the most simple questions. To ask “What is marriage?” is to be emotionally blackmailed (shame!), isolated (go back to the 1950s!) and bullied (damn right, you’ll lose your business).

Judge’s last question, “What is marriage?” gets right to the heart of the matter. It is interesting to note that the Supreme Court majority, in their recent ruling (Obergefell vs. Hodges), nowhere attempted to provide a clear definition of the term “marriage.” Instead, we were told that the meaning of marriage has evolved over time, despite documents cited by dissenting Chief Justice John Roberts, showing that the term “marriage” has been understood for centuries to mean: the lifelong union of a man and a woman.

Much play has been made in the media of Elena Kagan’s facile argument that if marriage were really about procreation, as traditionalists supposedly hold, then there should be laws on the books prohibiting elderly couples from typing the knot, as there is no chance that they will procreate. But the argument overlooks two very important points.

First, what defines marriage is not procreation , but its essentially monogamous character: it is a union of one man and one woman, for life. (There have of course been societies which tolerated polygamy, but the practice invariably results in the exploitation of women. What’s more, even in societies where the practice is allowed, it is relatively uncommon: the vast majority of men have one wife.) Now, there are heterosexual couples who have what they call “open marriages,” these are relatively uncommon, and even today in America, 90% of people still regard adultery as morally wrong. However, the great majority of gay “marriages” are not sexually monogamous: they are open relationships. And even if there are some gay couples practicing monogamy, I know of no gay couple who are willing to declare that open relationships between gays (or straight people, for that matter) are not real marriages. For this reason alone, then, a strong case can be made on legal grounds for refusing to recognize gay marriage: doing so would inevitably force people to publicly sanction relationships in which sexual monogamy is no longer even recognized as an ideal. That would in turn mean that schoolchildren are no longer taught that married people should be faithful to one another until death do them part.

Second, even if it is not the case that every marriage is potentially procreative, it is certainly true that the institution of marriage would not exist, were it not for the fact that humans procreate sexually. In a hypothetical world where intelligent life-forms reproduced asexually, there would be no marriage, since there would be no need for it. Why, then, do we allow elderly couples to wed? Simple enough: because the bond between them is of the same sort as that existing between couples who wed when they were young, had children, and have now grown old. In both cases, the couples in question physically express their love in exactly the same way, and under the same conditions: they promise to be faithful to each other until death do them part. Gay marriage does not even get a foot in the door here: the physical expression of their love is quite different, and there is usually no intention to remain sexually monogamous.

In his recent post, Professor Coyne argues that people who oppose gay marriage must do so because they regard it as un-Biblical and/or unnatural. But the argument I put forward in the foregoing paragraphs made no mention of the Bible or of natural law. All it assumed was that marriage is essentially monogamous – a sentiment still upheld by the vast majority of Americans.

But I can safely bet that gay rights advocates in America will make no attempt to respond to arguments like the one I have put forward above, in civil terms. Ridicule, scorn and abuse are weapons which suit their cause better, and no attempt must be spared to make their opponents look absurd. If Professor Coyne wants to know how the legalization of gay marriage has hurt ordinary people who oppose it, I can sum it up in one sentence: thoughtful public discussions of the pros and cons of gay marriage will no longer be possible, because one side has been demonized.

What do readers think?

Comments
To daves- Bible-believing Christians should be fruitful and multiply. That is the only reason to get married in the first place. You are going against God's will and you sit there and try to preach to us. Pathetic.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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daves:
We’ve established that the Christian virtue of chastity is a “personal problem” in your view.
People can live together without having sex. Your desperation is showing.
Yes, it does solve the problem of gays and lesbians being barred from visiting their same-sex partners while they are in the hospital.
What hospital does that?Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
Absolutely.
Great. We've established that the Christian virtue of chastity is a "personal problem" in your view.
Another personal problem. As if getting married will solve that issue.
Yes, it does solve the problem of gays and lesbians being barred from visiting their same-sex partners while they are in the hospital.daveS
July 7, 2015
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daves:
I’ve never heard anyone call it a “problem” before. If an opposite-sex, bible-believing Christian couple decline to live together out of wedlock, is that a personal problem also?
Absolutely. Bible-believing Christians should be fruitful and multiply. That is the only reason to get married in the first place.
Maybe so, but if I were a gay person in a long-term relationship, I wouldn’t feel too secure.
Another personal problem. As if getting married will solve that issue. What planet do you live on?Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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Zachriel:
The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection and due process to citizens.
Right, nothing about marriage. The 14th amendment doesn't define marriage nor does it redefine marriage.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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Z 43 If a business is open to the public, but the owner claims that his religion forbids whites and blacks from mixing, should they be legally allowed to refuse service? https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maxc1zdlBQ1rg5m9yo1_1280.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------ Nice try, Z. But redefining marriage isn't at all like racism. All societies have had one man/one woman marriage for thousands of years; far fewer have had racism. And the Bible never commands white people to disassociate with black people. In fact, when Aaron disses Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman, he is struck with leprosy.anthropic
July 7, 2015
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Virgil Cain: The 14th amendment doesn’t say anything about marriage The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection and due process to citizens. anthropic: Just ask the Christian couple in Oregon who were fined $135,000 and placed under a gag order for not bowing down to Caesar. If a business is open to the public, but the owner claims that his religion forbids whites and blacks from mixing, should they be legally allowed to refuse service? https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maxc1zdlBQ1rg5m9yo1_1280.jpgZachriel
July 7, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
Right, it’s a personal problem. Meaning you two are the only ones preventing you two from living together without being married.
I've never heard anyone call it a "problem" before. If an opposite-sex, bible-believing Christian couple decline to live together out of wedlock, is that a personal problem also?
All of that can be accomplished without being married.
Maybe so, but if I were a gay person in a long-term relationship, I wouldn't feel too secure. Remember a few years ago when the guy who almost won the last presidential election held this position:
Governor Romney also believes, consistent with the 10th Amendment, that it should be left to states to decide whether to grant same-sex couples certain benefits, such as hospital visitation rights and the ability to adopt children.
***
Getting married does not automatically grant anyone happiness.
Thanks for the tip.daveS
July 7, 2015
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Bob 33 When the state commands what God forbids, such bowing down to Caesar as a god, or endorsing gay marriage, the state no longer is to be obeyed. You might want to move to a country that doesn’t have a constitutional separation of state and religion before trying that argument. ------------------------------------------------------------- So in the Dred Scott decision, when the Supreme Court ruled that runaway slaves were mere property that had to be returned to their owners, people with religious objections should have fallen in line? Let's be clear: When five black-robed lawyers redefine marriage for the entire country at their whim, there is no separation of church and state. The state has swallowed the church and now claims ultimate allegiance. Just ask the Christian couple in Oregon who were fined $135,000 and placed under a gag order for not bowing down to Caesar.anthropic
July 7, 2015
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Lesbian Activist’s Surprisingly Candid Speech: Gay Marriage Fight Is a ‘Lie’ to Destroy Marriage But let's ignore that...Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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The 14th amendment doesn't say anything about marriage, Zachriel.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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The US and the West in general are in rapid decline and gay marriage will have no effect on that either way. It's heterosexuals who have been eroding the institution of marriage. Whether its Britney Spears getting married for 3 days, or people like Liz Taylor who get married 7,8,9 times or the numerous wealthy 80,90 year old men who marry gorgeous 20 year olds - this is why we can no longer take marriage seriously. If anything, the huge effort that gays have been made to have the right to get married, and all the images of happy couples at the alter, are a slight upturn for marriage within the long inevitable downward spiralRodW
July 7, 2015
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daves:
Not sure what you’re referring to. Bottom line: we each prefer marriage to cohabitation.
Right, it's a personal problem. Meaning you two are the only ones preventing you two from living together without being married.
Yes, legal implications such as making decisions regarding medical care, funeral arrangements, inheritance, and so forth are important.
All of that can be accomplished without being married. Getting married does not automatically grant anyone happiness.Virgil Cain
July 7, 2015
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Bob O'H,
You might want to move to a country that doesn’t have a constitutional separation of state and religion before trying that argument.
Somewhat related: Gay marriage ruling has Twitter users saying they're 'moving to Canada' (where gay marriage was legalized 10 years ago).daveS
July 7, 2015
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Silver Asiatic: Somewhere we found gay marriage in the constitution. Yes. The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection and due process.
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
If government is to be in the business of marriage, then everyone is guaranteed equal access to the benefits and responsibilities of marriage. A simple solution would be to separate church and state; government offering civil unions only, and a marriage ceremony depending on the individual culture and beliefs of the couple.Zachriel
July 7, 2015
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Bob O
You might want to move to a country that doesn’t have a constitutional separation of state and religion before trying that argument.
Somewhere we found gay marriage in the constitution.Silver Asiatic
July 7, 2015
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On the other hand, Bob O'H, Andre might not want to move to a country that doesn’t have a constitutional separation of state and religion.... bearing in mind his hilariously brutal truth (...that doesn't happen often, but it shouldn't be considered an esoteric truth that Nature always has the last word): 'Anybody want to guess what happens to defects in nature?' The separation of state and religion was a bad idea then and is a bad idea now. But it was nowhere near as bad an idea then as it is now. Why even the First Amendment is ignored by your government today. The US is a sink of sexual depravity across the board, you have a prison archipelago larger than Stalin's, and dwarfing even China's (also containing many on long sentences for a trivial offence, such as possessing Mary Jane). I could go on, but what's the point? The effects of the misrule just keep getting worse and more extensive. Nor is it over yet. And it will drag the rest of the world down with it. And you have the nerve to tout separation of state and religion?Axel
July 7, 2015
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When the state commands what God forbids, such bowing down to Caesar as a god, or endorsing gay marriage, the state no longer is to be obeyed.
You might want to move to a country that doesn't have a constitutional separation of state and religion before trying that argument.Bob O'H
July 7, 2015
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Anthropic As I've commented before, tolerance has bred intolerance.Andre
July 7, 2015
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Andre, I am hearing things now that I've not heard before from previously complacent American Christians. Some call for a retreat from neo-pagan America, similar to the monasteries that preserved civilization after the fall of Rome. Some call for civil disobedience. That's pretty hard to justify for Bible believers who read what Paul had to say about government in Romans, but we seem to have reached a tipping point. When the state commands what God forbids, such bowing down to Caesar as a god, or endorsing gay marriage, the state no longer is to be obeyed. Even on the radio today I heard calls for churches to place the Christian flag above the US flag as a sign of their ultimate allegiance.anthropic
July 7, 2015
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If Christianity is true then homosexuality, like adultery and fornication just makes you a sinner, if materialism is true then being homosexual makes you an evolutionary defect that is less fit. fit. Anybody want to guess what happens to defects in nature? But lets get to the meat of the issue shall we? This court ruling that was given, is where the grand eugenics experiment manifests itself in all its materialistic glory, this is what Chesterton spoke about when he said;
"Eugenics, as discussed, evidently means the control of some men over the marriage and unmarriage of others; and probably means the control of the few over the marriage and unmarriage of the many" G.K. Chesterton
Andre
July 6, 2015
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Why is it that almost every gay friend I have has a Facebook page of themselves filled with naked pictures of them and their mates? What is up with that?Andre
July 6, 2015
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Its homosexuality that is morally wrong, Its repulsive and contemptible. Its unnatural and shows a health problem. It tends to be allied with other dysfunctions. Yet the gay person is not contempatable and should be our friend and countryman. gay marriage ruling is wrong because it takes from the people their ancient and exclusive right to make marriage laws. Marriage is only a creation of mans laws recognizing Gods idea of man/woman union. The court can not rule that liberty trumps the peoples right to make the laws on this. The people are only under consent, after Locke, of the contract between their government and the object for their government. Namely maintaining their rights. In short this decision is truly like the dred scott decision. Saying the people have a right that trumps the nations right to decide. its another one on the list of dictatorship from a selected liberal court. Its will be overthrown by new judges. Gay marriage is a profound rejection of every persons identity in their sexual normalcy. It truly destroys marriage. not add to it. Its a rejection of the only reason for marriage. The profound beautiful relationship, unique in creation, between two humans and so only of opposite sex as thats a profound identity difference. Its evil and the people must decide.Robert Byers
July 6, 2015
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I have relatives with a son who has gone into the homosexual lifestyle. It's been rough for them, but they have made great efforts to show him love and to reassure him that he is still part of the family. That's not enough, though. As he told them, "I don't want you to love me despite me being gay, I want you to love me BECAUSE I'm gay!" This attitude, demanding not mere tolerance but publicly expressed approval, also lies behind Gay Pride parades and the like. It reflects how profoundly insecure gays are about themselves. Like the guy who constantly boasts about how smart he is because he doubts his IQ, gays must constantly be assured that what they do is right and natural.anthropic
July 6, 2015
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I'm not clear on why a secular society would promote gay marriage. From a secular point of view, sexual attraction and urges are explicable as a biological drive toward procreation. Someone whose entire concept of sexual fulfillment shares no resemblance of male-female interaction or even the illusion of reproductive-capable sex is delusional. Remember: sexual attraction, from a secular scientific biological perspective is all about driving reproduction. Any person who's sexual attraction doesn't even begin to resemble a remotely biologically possible reproductive equation is deranged. That is the honest secular position. Now, from a religious context, it makes some sense. First, we begin with the heavily religiosity-filled concepts of equality and rights. Science, biology, chemistry, physics, and honest secularism have no interest in these lofty metaphysical constructs. But dogmatic religiosity asserts these self-evident truths. From religion, sex and relationships are primarily about "expression" and various other abstractions which have no place in secular philosophy. A secular state may have some interest in promoting marriage between two non-delusional heterosexuals. This concept of marriage does at least align with biological expectation. Monogamy doesn't necessarily. But there are some arguments for why children, and thus society, and thus the state, would better benefit from a promotion of monogamy in non-deluded individuals, even if not 100% compliant. Why is an allegedly secular state, whose founding documents reference natural-law guided rights, promoting gay marriage? Sadly, I believe the answer is that we have high jacked various philosophical constructs, entirely removed from their only relevant context, and misappropriated them for absolutely no benefit to society other than a Hallmark-channel feel-good moment which ultimately thumbs its nose at genuine secularism, pious people, our founding documents, rational thought and any version of consistent logic.jw777
July 6, 2015
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This situation is fairly easy to analyze. It's rampant subjectivism in action: Marriage means whatever I want it to mean, the constitution says whatever I want it to say, and reality is whatever I want it to be. Or, as Anthony Kennedy puts it, " "At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life..." That comment, my friends, is the product of a weak mind and an undisciplined will. What we will find, though, is what we have always known. All that phony open-mindedness goes out the window when a subjectivist gains power. That is when "his" truth becomes the only tolerable truth. The pervert can define marriage any way he likes, but the Christian may not express his opinion on the matter, unless he would prefer to remain unemployed. Interesting, isn't it. The gay movement began as a plea for employment rights and a promise that economic parity would suffice. On the contrary, the gay lobby has always sought to destroy the Christian religion and persecute Christian believers. Unless the states do the right thing and refuse to comply with this lawless decision, that is exactly what is going to happen. Inside every subjectivist is a totalitarian screaming to get out.StephenB
July 6, 2015
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The way I see it is, since marriage is already well defined, don't call it marriage, call it something else (ie: under a new label), and then fight for that right.computerist
July 6, 2015
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In the beginning, marriage was more than just boy meets girl and they have kids. It was also the mechanism by which women entered into their inheritance. In those days, the land was not divided for a price but for an inheritance. Gay marriage would not have worked. Marriage today is just a piece of paper in comparison. Gay marriage? Phht. I don't care. Heck, I think even robots should get married and they do: :-D Meanwhile, robots are getting married in JapanMapou
July 6, 2015
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Virgil Cain,
Sounds like a personal problem.
Not sure what you're referring to. Bottom line: we each prefer marriage to cohabitation.
Yeah,cuz legal implications are important to people who are in love and inseparable.
Yes, legal implications such as making decisions regarding medical care, funeral arrangements, inheritance, and so forth are important.daveS
July 6, 2015
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Rebecca Hamilton:"I have never attacked them. I have never tried to hurt them. And I never will." Really! How can being prevented from marrying the one person in the world that you love and who loves you possibly hurt? Vjtorley:"But I can safely bet that gay rights advocates in America will make no attempt to respond to arguments like the one I have put forward above, in civil terms. Ridicule, scorn and abuse are weapons which suit their cause better, and no attempt must be spared to make their opponents look absurd." You're making it hard.MatSpirit
July 6, 2015
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