Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

George Orwell on “What is Science?”

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Recently, while browsing through the essays of George Orwell – a writer I’ve always admired, even when I disagree with him – I came across one entitled, What is Science? which struck me as both timely and prescient. I’d like to quote a few excerpts, and invite readers to weigh in with their opinions. (Emphases below are mine.)

[T]he word Science is at present used in at least two meanings, and the whole question of scientific education is obscured by the current tendency to dodge from one meaning to the other.

Science is generally taken as meaning either (a) the exact sciences, such as chemistry, physics, etc., or (b) a method of thought which obtains verifiable results by reasoning logically from observed fact.

If you ask any scientist, or indeed almost any educated person, “What is Science?” you are likely to get an answer approximating to (b). In everyday life, however, both in speaking and in writing, when people say “Science” they mean (a). Science means something that happens in a laboratory: the very word calls up a picture of graphs, test-tubes, balances, Bunsen burners, microscopes. A biologist, and astronomer, perhaps a psychologist or a mathematician is described as a “man of Science”: no one would think of applying this term to a statesman, a poet, a journalist or even a philosopher. And those who tell us that the young must be scientifically educated mean, almost invariably, that they should be taught more about radioactivity, or the stars, or the physiology or their own bodies, rather than that they should be taught to think more exactly.

Orwell is arguing here that science, in the true sense of the word, is about forming one’s opinions by thinking clearly about facts that are publicly shareable and demonstrable. On this definition, anyone who has acquired the habit of thinking in this way should be entitled to call themselves a scientist.

In Orwell’s day, it was seen as a Good Thing that students should learn about “radioactivity, or the stars, or the physiology or their own bodies”; nowadays, educating our young about Darwinian evolution, sexual health for kindergartners, and global warming is deemed to be the latest Good Thing. The focus has changed; but sadly, the paternalistic mindset of the “powers that be” hasn’t.

The demand for more science education, as Orwell astutely perceived, reflects an underlying political agenda, based on the naive belief – falsified by history – that we’d all be better off if scientists ruled the world:

This confusion of meaning, which is partly deliberate, has in it a great danger. Implied in the demand for more scientific education is the claim that if one has been scientifically trained one’s approach to all subjects will be more intelligent than if one had had no such training. A scientist’s political opinions, it is assumed, his opinions on sociological questions, on morals, on philosophy, perhaps even on the arts, will be more valuable than those of a layman. The world, in other words, would be a better place if the scientists were in control of it. But a “scientist”, as we have just seen, means in practice a specialist in one of the exact sciences. It follows that a chemist or a physicist, as such, is politically more intelligent than a poet or a lawyer, as such. And, in fact, there are already millions of people who do believe this.

But is it really true that a “scientist”, in this narrower sense, is any likelier than other people to approach non-scientific problems in an objective way? There is not much reason for thinking so. Take one simple test – the ability to withstand nationalism. It is often loosely said that “Science is international”, but in practice the scientific workers of all countries line up behind their own governments with fewer scruples than are felt by the writers and the artists. The German scientific community, as a whole, made no resistance to Hitler. Hitler may have ruined the long-term prospects of German Science, but there were still plenty of gifted men to do the necessary research on such things as synthetic oil, jet planes, rocket projectiles and the atomic bomb. Without them the German war machine could never have been built up… More sinister than this, a number of German scientists swallowed the monstrosity of “racial Science”. You can find some of the statements to which they set their names in Professor Brady’s The Spirit and Structure of German Fascism.

Orwell goes on to praise science as “a rational, sceptical, experimental habit of mind” and as “a method that can be used on any problem that one meets.” Orwell’s inclusive phrase, “any problem that one meets,” may at first sight suggest that he viewed science as the only road to truth, but he isn’t saying that. In endorsing science – defined in the broad sense – as a method of solving any and every problem, Orwell is not declaring that science alone can give us knowledge, or that science alone can lead us to truth – conclusions that would only follow if the set of truths that can be known coincided with the set of problems that can be solved.

Orwell concludes by suggesting that what young people really need to be taught is not lots of scientific facts, but critical thinking, and rhetorically asking what will happen to the prestige hitherto enjoyed by scientists, and to their claim to be wiser than the rest of us?

But does all this mean that the general public should not be more scientifically educated? On the contrary! All it means is that scientific education for the masses will do little good, and probably a lot of harm, if it simply boils down to more physics, more chemistry, more biology, etc., to the detriment of literature and history. Its probable effect on the average human being would be to narrow the range of his thoughts and make him more than ever contemptuous of such knowledge as he did not possess: and his political reactions would probably be somewhat less intelligent than those of an illiterate peasant who retained a few historical memories and a fairly sound aesthetic sense.

Clearly, scientific education ought to mean the implanting of a rational, sceptical, experimental habit of mind. It ought to mean acquiring a method – a method that can be used on any problem that one meets – and not simply piling up a lot of facts. Put it in those words, and the apologist of scientific education will usually agree. Press him further, ask him to particularise, and somehow it always turns out that scientific education means more attention to the sciences, in other words – more facts. The idea that Science means a way of looking at the world, and not simply a body of knowledge, is in practice strongly resisted. I think sheer professional jealousy is part of the reason for this. For if Science is simply a method or an attitude, so that anyone whose thought-processes are sufficiently rational can in some sense be described as a scientist – what then becomes of the enormous prestige now enjoyed by the chemist, the physicist, etc. and his claim to be somehow wiser than the rest of us?

What, indeed? Remember that, the next time someone asks you to believe in Darwinian evolution, or in the fixity of each person’s “sexuality” (whatever that woolly term means), or in dangerous anthropogenic global warming (as opposed to a modest rise of 1.5 degrees Celsius by 2100), based on the “overwhelming consensus” of scientists in the field.

Readers might also like to have a look at Barry Arrington’s 2010 post, Expert, Smexpert, which addresses the question of when it’s rational NOT to believe an expert.

Was Orwell right about science? What do readers think?

Comments
Obviously the stress of Alan's fatheadedness has affected his ability to do anything but attack- he is mad cow's disease writ largeJoe
September 6, 2013
September
09
Sep
6
06
2013
04:31 AM
4
04
31
AM
PDT
Alan Fox:
Sorry chubs, but I’m going to bow out on this thread.
LoL! Alan you are fatter than I will ever be! And of course you are bowing out-> you have nothing, as usual.
I don’t see any point in continuing.
Of course you don't-> you have nothing!
I make no impression on you,
That's because all you have are bald assertions and your opinions.
you none on me
That's because you are oblivious to facts and evidence.Joe
September 6, 2013
September
09
Sep
6
06
2013
04:30 AM
4
04
30
AM
PDT
AF Do you understand that you have just played a low blow, a snide personality instead of addressing the issue you must face? At this stage, I have to expect such behaviour from you. You are associated with and have tried to justify malicious, invidious association of principled objection to gross sexual immorality and utter perversion -- including now the agenda to pervert the foundational social institution, the family -- with nazism, for me and for ever so many others. Remember, it was your ilk who dragged this into issues unrelated, in order to taint and polarise. For months, despite correction you have been enabling this, along with too many others at TSZ. (Onlookers, cf. my recent comment on this scarlet letter tactic being used by various extremists to rob people of livelihood, conscience and more, here. Note onward links, including this on the "my genes made me do it" pseudoscientific talking point.) Then, you have resorted to slanderous false accusations of fraud, by trying the outrageous tactic of characterising the concept, complex, specified information -- something as commonplace as posts in this thread -- as "bogus." I simply point out that you have also consistently -- and in the face of repeated. cogent corrections, willfully and so deceitfully -- used strawman distortions of design theory constructs and concepts, the better to portray and knock down a caricature falsely projected as though it were a true and fair view. In this, by and large, you have carried forward the sorts of willful misrepresentations too often resorted to by chief critics of design theory, such as the NCSE. The "Creationism in a cheap tuxedo" talking point used to motivate treating an issue that pivots on inductive reasoning on the past of origins in light of traces and reliable causes of such effects as though it were a suspect political ploy, is particularly evident. In short, you have been only too willing to enable and carry forward the Dawkins smear that would characterise those who beg to differ with his sophomoric evolutionary materialism, as ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked. I have had enough, once you crossed the further threshold of pretending as though the use of outing tactics, career busting and threats -- in my case targetting uninvolved members of my family including my children, is something you can easily brush aside and distance yourself from as though it is not an integral part of the pattern of ruthless and utterly uncivil tactics of the movement you have associated yourself with. The good cop bad cop enabling and manipulating game gets very old very fast, and just because you have not yourself participated in the worst features of the bad cop side, does not leave you innocent of enabling and egging on behaviour. The lot of you have zero credibility at this point, and step by step reveal a cold, reptilian ferocity driven by an underlying malice that needs to be faced for what it is: out of control cold anger rooted in an agenda that intends to get its way with our civilisation at any cost. An agenda that has subverted science through ideological distortions: a priori evolutionary materialism and scientism, in support of radical secularism and licence leading to undermining of education, law, policy, public morality and liberty -- yes, when people's livelihoods, careers and families are being unjustly threatened and when people's children are threatened [cf here on a case with the US NAS and NSTA which was used to embed into education a false and destructive radical redefinition of science], this is a threat to liberty -- itself. So, AF, I think you need to seriously think again about both what you have been directly doing and what you have been enabling and going along with in a perverse good cop bad cop game. (The same holds for EL et al.) To understand just how corrosive such tactics ultimately are, ask yourselves why it is that there are entire sub cultures and communities across our civilisation who do not trust ANYONE associated with law enforcement. A big part of the answer is the taint spread across all such because there have been too many rounds of enabling of bad cop behaviour by so called good cops. In the end, enablers cannot escape that taint, and right now that is what you are -- for cause -- facing. The taint of good cop bad cop corrupts the whole movement they are associated with, and ends up causing utter polarisation and breakdown. Just take a moment to understand how say Sewell's trials over addressing censorship and intimidation in academic publishing looks in the light of the patterns we have been seeing. Does anyone doubt that had he not been a long since established academic, he would have gone the way of Gonzalez et al, complete with blame the victim tactics? Do you BEGIN to understand the taint, the gangrene that is spreading? Good day KFkairosfocus
September 6, 2013
September
09
Sep
6
06
2013
02:55 AM
2
02
55
AM
PDT
@Joe Sorry chubs, but I'm going to bow out on this thread. I don't see any point in continuing. I make no impression on you, you none on me and I doubt there are too many lurkers reading.Alan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
06:44 PM
6
06
44
PM
PDT
KF Obviously the stress of your son's health problems have affected your ability to think straight at the moment. Maybe later you can revisit what you wrote and reflect on it. I think it is best I follow Barry's advice and I'll ignore any further comments from you until you come back to reality.Alan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
06:31 PM
6
06
31
PM
PDT
KF Obviously the stress of your son's health problems have affected your ability to think straight at the moment. Maybe later you can revisit what you wrote and reflect on it. I think it is best I follow Barry's advice and I'll ignore any further comments from you until you come back to reality.Alan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
06:30 PM
6
06
30
PM
PDT
F/N: I need to underscore that in a world of lunatics, stalkers and ruthless ideologues, outing tactics are an immediate and direct threat on many levels. There are too many cases in point to illustrate that. That AF is trying to parse and pretend his way around this and to accuse me of being "closed minded" to take such tactics indulged by his side as dangerous and beyond all limits of decency and civility, is itself a further warning sign of just what he represents. Multiply that by his association with and attempt to justify tainting insinuations intended to associate me with nazism. Mix in his false accusations of intellectual fraud against the design theory project -- that is what "bogus" implies. His pretence at harmless, puzzled innocence is disgusting.kairosfocus
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
02:11 PM
2
02
11
PM
PDT
AF, I will first and foremost note that of course -- as expected -- you have been unable to cogently address fundamental and decisive matters regarding origins science on the merits, for a solid eight years of snipping and sniping in and around UD now. To be even more specific, as has been on the table for eleven months, on an open invitation, if you or any of your ilk had a serious and empirically well grounded, observationally based case that warrants the idea that blind chance and mechanical necessity in a warm little pond or the like gave rise to cell based life, and onwards body plans, then you would have seized upon the chance. This is a case where the dog that has refused to bark speaks loud volumes. If you had a real case, there would not have been any need to be enabling the sort of bully boy ugly tactics I have had to point out above and previously. But, by your own confession and actions you are a radical ideological evolutionist, who has set out to target design thought for ideological reasons. The attempted denial above, is simply and blatantly false. You have declared yourself to be pursuing an ideological agenda, viewing design theory as a threat to what you think of as science but is obviously in reality a priori materialist scientism, and associated ideological materialistic distortion of science education. You have acted in concert with others in and around UD for many years, and in particular actions such as involving yourself with TSZ and enabling them in slander, as I have had specific reason to highlight already show you to be up to your eyeballs in the activities of a ruthless ideological movement as an enabler. In short, you simply cannot be taken at face value, you are showing yourself involved with a pattern of habitual falsehood, evasions, distortions, misrepresentations and even slanders intended to take advantage of the naive onlooker who takes you and yo0ur ilk at your words. You have proved yourself a false accuser [I have not forgotten either your close association with and defense of a false insinuation of nazism, or your attempt to imply directly that the very simple and easily observable phenomenon of complex, specified information is a fraud, using the term "bogus"), a serial resorter to strawman misrepresenations, and now you have proved yourself an enabler of not only false accusations but ugly threats. I hope for your sake that you can wake up and realise what you have been doing, and make amends before it is too late. But, right now, I have to take it very seriously that you are part of a movement that has stooped to mafioso style thuggish outing tactics and threats against my uninvolved family -- including my wife and children, and that you have tried to indulge in evasions and pretences that all is innocent sweetness and light on your part. You have definitively crossed a very dangerous line, and from this point forth, I have every reason of basic prudence to treat you in that light. Good day KFkairosfocus
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
01:56 PM
1
01
56
PM
PDT
Alan Fox:
1. Prove what? That the amino-acid sequence is not paramount in the folding of functional proteins and in the the same conditions the folding will be reliably identical?
It proves that sequence alone does not account for its functional 3-D configuration.
I’ll agree that the system with actins and crystallins appears to exploit additional conformations but this is a very rare exception and one that doesn’t change the fact that the properties of proteins flow from the physics and chemistry.
Except there isn't any evidence that the proerties of proteins flow from physics and chemistry.
It does show the subtlety of natural selection at work so thanks for the information.
LoL!
Prions demonstrate that life is not perfect.
Nice non-sequitur.
The catalysed precipitation of amyloid in the human brain as a result of eating contaminated bovine material is hardly anything to do with a theory of “Intelligent Design” or a “Design” inference.
Followed by another non-sequitur. Prions are an example of heredity by contact. And if you were correct about the amino acid sequence determining the protein configuration, that shouldn't happen.
Genetic engineering? That’s a new one. How does this play?
It shouldn't be a new one- well to the ignorant it would be, and here you are. Go figure. With the rare excpetions, such as insulin, most polypeptides- that is spliced in DNA that was then transcribed and translated- did not form into their functioning proteins. Dr Sermonti goes over this in "Why Is A Fly Not A Horse?"- in it he has a chapter titled What Teaches Proteins Their Shapes? in which he presents evidence that refutes your unsupported claims of proteins beiing reducible to physics and chemistry. So Alan, do YOU have anything beyond your personal opinion to support your claims?Joe
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
08:17 AM
8
08
17
AM
PDT
Oops HTML error First Line is JoeGAlan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
07:36 AM
7
07
36
AM
PDT
>blockquote>Except protein conformation is NOT set by the sequence and this proves it. And genetic engineering also proves it as do prions. 1. Prove what? That the amino-acid sequence is not paramount in the folding of functional proteins and in the the same conditions the folding will be reliably identical? I'll agree that the system with actins and crystallins appears to exploit additional conformations but this is a very rare exception and one that doesn't change the fact that the properties of proteins flow from the physics and chemistry. It does show the subtlety of natural selection at work so thanks for the information. 2. Prions demonstrate that life is not perfect. The catalysed precipitation of amyloid in the human brain as a result of eating contaminated bovine material is hardly anything to do with a theory of "Intelligent Design" or a "Design" inference. 3. Genetic engineering? That's a new one. How does this play?Alan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
07:35 AM
7
07
35
AM
PDT
Alan Fox chokes:
The suggestion that production rate causes misfolding is speculative.
No, it is observed.
Interesting but peripheral to the main issue that in general, protein conformation is set by the sequence.
Except protein conformation is NOT set by the sequence and this proves it. And genetic engineering also proves it as do prions. As for 149, well that still stands as it is obvious that you have nothing. Thank you for that.Joe
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
04:30 AM
4
04
30
AM
PDT
Mr. Fox, sorry to interrupt any particular deception you were trying to convey to Joe with 'Gish gallop'. I can't seem to shake this belief in you that someday you may become reasonable. My bad! :)bornagain77
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
03:11 AM
3
03
11
AM
PDT
Mr. Fox, proteins being context dependent towards specific functionality in a given setting is very antagonistic towards the ‘bottom up’ reductive materialism of neo-Darwinism and is very conducive to a ‘top down’ approach of Intelligent Design.
The 'top-down' approach of ID sounds very apt. I see you want to stray off the immediate point again to discus cellular transport systems and cellular embryology and evo-devo. Sort of Gish gallop commenting.Alan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
02:56 AM
2
02
56
AM
PDT
Mr. Fox, proteins being context dependent towards specific functionality in a given setting is very antagonistic towards the 'bottom up' reductive materialism of neo-Darwinism and is very conducive to a 'top down' approach of Intelligent Design. Talbott puts the problem for neo-Darwinists this way: HOW BIOLOGISTS LOST SIGHT OF THE MEANING OF LIFE — AND ARE NOW STARING IT IN THE FACE - Stephen L. Talbott - May 2012 Excerpt: “If you think air traffic controllers have a tough job guiding planes into major airports or across a crowded continental airspace, consider the challenge facing a human cell trying to position its proteins”. A given cell, he notes, may make more than 10,000 different proteins, and typically contains more than a billion protein molecules at any one time. “Somehow a cell must get all its proteins to their correct destinations — and equally important, keep these molecules out of the wrong places”. And further: “It’s almost as if every mRNA [an intermediate between a gene and a corresponding protein] coming out of the nucleus knows where it’s going” (Travis 2011),,, The question is indeed, then, “How does the organism meaningfully dispose of all its molecules, getting them to the right places and into the right interactions?” The same sort of question can be asked of cells, for example in the growing embryo, where literal streams of cells are flowing to their appointed places, differentiating themselves into different types as they go, and adjusting themselves to all sorts of unpredictable perturbations — even to the degree of responding appropriately when a lab technician excises a clump of them from one location in a young embryo and puts them in another, where they may proceed to adapt themselves in an entirely different and proper way to the new environment. It is hard to quibble with the immediate impression that form (which is more idea-like than thing-like) is primary, and the material particulars subsidiary. Two systems biologists, one from the Max Delbrück Center for Molecular Medicine in Germany and one from Harvard Medical School, frame one part of the problem this way: "The human body is formed by trillions of individual cells. These cells work together with remarkable precision, first forming an adult organism out of a single fertilized egg, and then keeping the organism alive and functional for decades. To achieve this precision, one would assume that each individual cell reacts in a reliable, reproducible way to a given input, faithfully executing the required task. However, a growing number of studies investigating cellular processes on the level of single cells revealed large heterogeneity even among genetically identical cells of the same cell type. (Loewer and Lahav 2011)",,, http://www.netfuture.org/2012/May1012_184.html#2bornagain77
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
02:25 AM
2
02
25
AM
PDT
Thanks for the links, Phil, most of which I've already seen, though the "Gene Sharing and Evolution" book, reviewed by Francisco Ayala looks interesting. How does this relate to the inherent tendency of proteins to fold in particular ways in particular circumstances? We seem to have drifted off the comment of Joe's 149 and his claim to be able to make adesign inference.Alan Fox
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
01:54 AM
1
01
54
AM
PDT
Mr. Fox, Genes Code For Many Layers of Information - They May Have Just Discovered Another - Cornelius Hunter - January 21, 2013 Excerpt: “protein multifunctionality is more the rule than the exception.” In fact, “Perhaps all proteins perform many different functions by employing as many different mechanisms." http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2013/01/genes-code-for-many-layers-of.html http://www.fasebj.org/content/23/7/2022.full Explaining how a protein can perform multiple roles - Cell Biology - December 18, 2009 Excerpt: It’s been known for more than a decade that some cell proteins can carry out multiple functions. For example, it was discovered in 1999 that the protein TyrRS (explained shortly) participated not only in the building of enzymes, but also could function to stimulate the growth of blood vessels. Discovering that the same protein could perform very different roles opened one of the great new chapters in molecular biology. http://scitechstory.com/2009/12/18/explaining-how-a-protein-can-perform-multiple-roles/ Human Genes: Alternative Splicing (For Proteins) Far More Common Than Thought: Excerpt: two different forms of the same protein, known as isoforms, can have different, even completely opposite functions. For example, one protein may activate cell death pathways while its close relative promotes cell survival. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081102134623.htmbornagain77
September 5, 2013
September
09
Sep
5
05
2013
01:37 AM
1
01
37
AM
PDT
On synonymous mutations. Yes I see there is new work about the rate of synthesis of proteins being dependent on the level of aminoacyl tRNA synthetase present in the cytoplasm.In some cases a synonymous mutation will reduce the rate of production of a protein because the aa tRNA synthetase for the codon synonym is less abundant. The suggestion that production rate causes misfolding is speculative. Though I'll concede that the work on actin is convincing. Though, actins, being the core proteins in cytokinesis and muscle contractions are inherently dynamic. Interesting but peripheral to the main issue that in general, protein conformation is set by the sequence.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
08:42 PM
8
08
42
PM
PDT
The problem with arguing with Alan is the same as the problem with arguing with Gregory. If they cannot rebut a point you make, they will simply ignore it. There must be innumerable incontestable arguments shooting down their ones in flames, but you're wasting your energy making cogent arguments on these threads. The only ones they will engage with, however, are those they feel they CAN rebut (inevitably, erroneously), so it's just one more lamentable effect of having to dispute serious science or metaphysics in a form of asymmetric warfare, with dunderheads, who base their arguments on hypotheses that are too insane to be risible.Axel
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:59 AM
5
05
59
AM
PDT
From my last link:
A mutation in a human gene that does not change the resulting amino acid can nevertheless change a protein's function, according to an online report from Science. The research marks the first time that the phenomenon has been confirmed in mammals. "The habit we all have of disregarding nucleotide changes that don't change protein sequence may not be a good one," coauthor Michael Gottesman at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Md., told The Scientist. "This may be a generalizable phenomenon that may lead to changes in function we haven't been thinking about."
And it is very telling that Alan was ignorant of this. Heck IDists have known it for years- it is in the book "The Design of Life"Joe
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:19 AM
5
05
19
AM
PDT
LoL!@ Aaln Fox- Google is my friend and you are ignorant: I used "silent mutations and disease"- Synonymous (“Silent”) Mutations in Health, Disease, and Personalized Medicine: Review Actions speak louder: Predicted mechanisms by which silent mutations cause disease "Silent" mutations are not always silent- Mutations leading to identical amino acid sequences can change protein folding and functionJoe
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:16 AM
5
05
16
AM
PDT
Mr. Fox, should you not have a sensible argument to address in the first place? Everything you put forward dissolves into absurdity. Why is this? I thought you atheists were the 'rational' ones? Why is everything you put forward thus found to be irrational in its basis?bornagain77
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:11 AM
5
05
11
AM
PDT
Synonymous Codons: Another Gene Expression Regulation Mechanism - September 2010 Excerpt: There are 64 possible triplet codons in the DNA code, but only 20 amino acids they produce. As one can see, some amino acids can be coded by up to six “synonyms” of triplet codons: e.g., the codes AGA, AGG, CGA, CGC, CGG, and CGU will all yield arginine when translated by the ribosome. If the same amino acid results, what difference could the synonymous codons make? The researchers found that alternate spellings might affect the timing of translation in the ribosome tunnel, and slight delays could influence how the polypeptide begins its folding. This, in turn, might affect what chemical tags get put onto the polypeptide in the post-translational process. In the case of actin, the protein that forms transport highways for muscle and other things, the researchers found that synonymous codons produced very different functional roles for the “isoform” proteins that resulted in non-muscle cells,,, In their conclusion, they repeated, “Whatever the exact mechanism, the discovery of Zhang et al. that synonymous codon changes can so profoundly change the role of a protein adds a new level of complexity to how we interpret the genetic code.”,,, http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev201009.htm#20100919abornagain77
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:09 AM
5
05
09
AM
PDT
@ Joe I have stuff to do and won't be back for a while. Take the opportunity to construct a sensible response.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:08 AM
5
05
08
AM
PDT
JoeG claims:
Heck even alleged “silent” mutations can cause proteins to misfold even though the amino acid sequence is the same.
Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:03 AM
5
05
03
AM
PDT
Alan- just google it- silent mutations that cause defects
Come on, Joe. You made the claim. (Just a hint - Google is not your friend on this one.)Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
05:02 AM
5
05
02
AM
PDT
BTW Alan, genetic engineering uses known proteins- insulin was/ is a known protein. Unfortunately it was one of the few that worked the way scientists wanted.
Do try to stay on topic, Joe. You were about to tell me about silent mutations and the "screwing up" of proteins “even though the amino acid sequence is the same”.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
04:57 AM
4
04
57
AM
PDT
Alan- just google it- silent mutations that cause defectsJoe
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
04:55 AM
4
04
55
AM
PDT
BTW Alan, genetic engineering uses known proteins- insulin was/ is a known protein. Unfortunately it was one of the few that worked the way scientists wanted.Joe
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
04:54 AM
4
04
54
AM
PDT
Or didn’t you know that they can screw up the final protein?
No, Joe. I'm quite surprised to learn that. Especially as you say "even though the amino acid sequence is the same". Please enlighten me.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
September
09
Sep
4
04
2013
04:54 AM
4
04
54
AM
PDT
1 2 3 9

Leave a Reply