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George Orwell on “What is Science?”

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Recently, while browsing through the essays of George Orwell – a writer I’ve always admired, even when I disagree with him – I came across one entitled, What is Science? which struck me as both timely and prescient. I’d like to quote a few excerpts, and invite readers to weigh in with their opinions. (Emphases below are mine.)

[T]he word Science is at present used in at least two meanings, and the whole question of scientific education is obscured by the current tendency to dodge from one meaning to the other.

Science is generally taken as meaning either (a) the exact sciences, such as chemistry, physics, etc., or (b) a method of thought which obtains verifiable results by reasoning logically from observed fact.

If you ask any scientist, or indeed almost any educated person, “What is Science?” you are likely to get an answer approximating to (b). In everyday life, however, both in speaking and in writing, when people say “Science” they mean (a). Science means something that happens in a laboratory: the very word calls up a picture of graphs, test-tubes, balances, Bunsen burners, microscopes. A biologist, and astronomer, perhaps a psychologist or a mathematician is described as a “man of Science”: no one would think of applying this term to a statesman, a poet, a journalist or even a philosopher. And those who tell us that the young must be scientifically educated mean, almost invariably, that they should be taught more about radioactivity, or the stars, or the physiology or their own bodies, rather than that they should be taught to think more exactly.

Orwell is arguing here that science, in the true sense of the word, is about forming one’s opinions by thinking clearly about facts that are publicly shareable and demonstrable. On this definition, anyone who has acquired the habit of thinking in this way should be entitled to call themselves a scientist.

In Orwell’s day, it was seen as a Good Thing that students should learn about “radioactivity, or the stars, or the physiology or their own bodies”; nowadays, educating our young about Darwinian evolution, sexual health for kindergartners, and global warming is deemed to be the latest Good Thing. The focus has changed; but sadly, the paternalistic mindset of the “powers that be” hasn’t.

The demand for more science education, as Orwell astutely perceived, reflects an underlying political agenda, based on the naive belief – falsified by history – that we’d all be better off if scientists ruled the world:

This confusion of meaning, which is partly deliberate, has in it a great danger. Implied in the demand for more scientific education is the claim that if one has been scientifically trained one’s approach to all subjects will be more intelligent than if one had had no such training. A scientist’s political opinions, it is assumed, his opinions on sociological questions, on morals, on philosophy, perhaps even on the arts, will be more valuable than those of a layman. The world, in other words, would be a better place if the scientists were in control of it. But a “scientist”, as we have just seen, means in practice a specialist in one of the exact sciences. It follows that a chemist or a physicist, as such, is politically more intelligent than a poet or a lawyer, as such. And, in fact, there are already millions of people who do believe this.

But is it really true that a “scientist”, in this narrower sense, is any likelier than other people to approach non-scientific problems in an objective way? There is not much reason for thinking so. Take one simple test – the ability to withstand nationalism. It is often loosely said that “Science is international”, but in practice the scientific workers of all countries line up behind their own governments with fewer scruples than are felt by the writers and the artists. The German scientific community, as a whole, made no resistance to Hitler. Hitler may have ruined the long-term prospects of German Science, but there were still plenty of gifted men to do the necessary research on such things as synthetic oil, jet planes, rocket projectiles and the atomic bomb. Without them the German war machine could never have been built up… More sinister than this, a number of German scientists swallowed the monstrosity of “racial Science”. You can find some of the statements to which they set their names in Professor Brady’s The Spirit and Structure of German Fascism.

Orwell goes on to praise science as “a rational, sceptical, experimental habit of mind” and as “a method that can be used on any problem that one meets.” Orwell’s inclusive phrase, “any problem that one meets,” may at first sight suggest that he viewed science as the only road to truth, but he isn’t saying that. In endorsing science – defined in the broad sense – as a method of solving any and every problem, Orwell is not declaring that science alone can give us knowledge, or that science alone can lead us to truth – conclusions that would only follow if the set of truths that can be known coincided with the set of problems that can be solved.

Orwell concludes by suggesting that what young people really need to be taught is not lots of scientific facts, but critical thinking, and rhetorically asking what will happen to the prestige hitherto enjoyed by scientists, and to their claim to be wiser than the rest of us?

But does all this mean that the general public should not be more scientifically educated? On the contrary! All it means is that scientific education for the masses will do little good, and probably a lot of harm, if it simply boils down to more physics, more chemistry, more biology, etc., to the detriment of literature and history. Its probable effect on the average human being would be to narrow the range of his thoughts and make him more than ever contemptuous of such knowledge as he did not possess: and his political reactions would probably be somewhat less intelligent than those of an illiterate peasant who retained a few historical memories and a fairly sound aesthetic sense.

Clearly, scientific education ought to mean the implanting of a rational, sceptical, experimental habit of mind. It ought to mean acquiring a method – a method that can be used on any problem that one meets – and not simply piling up a lot of facts. Put it in those words, and the apologist of scientific education will usually agree. Press him further, ask him to particularise, and somehow it always turns out that scientific education means more attention to the sciences, in other words – more facts. The idea that Science means a way of looking at the world, and not simply a body of knowledge, is in practice strongly resisted. I think sheer professional jealousy is part of the reason for this. For if Science is simply a method or an attitude, so that anyone whose thought-processes are sufficiently rational can in some sense be described as a scientist – what then becomes of the enormous prestige now enjoyed by the chemist, the physicist, etc. and his claim to be somehow wiser than the rest of us?

What, indeed? Remember that, the next time someone asks you to believe in Darwinian evolution, or in the fixity of each person’s “sexuality” (whatever that woolly term means), or in dangerous anthropogenic global warming (as opposed to a modest rise of 1.5 degrees Celsius by 2100), based on the “overwhelming consensus” of scientists in the field.

Readers might also like to have a look at Barry Arrington’s 2010 post, Expert, Smexpert, which addresses the question of when it’s rational NOT to believe an expert.

Was Orwell right about science? What do readers think?

Comments
Mr. Fox, in your haste to list of things necessary for protein folding I noticed you neglected, once again, to list the recent breakthroughs in science that have firmly placed proteins (assembly and folding) in the world of 'non-local' quantum physics. Is this blatant omission on your part due to your a priori atheistic/materialistic bias? Or are you just being willingly deceitful again? Looking Beyond Space and Time to Cope With Quantum Theory – (Oct. 28, 2012) Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” says Nicolas Gisin, Professor at the University of Geneva, Switzerland,,, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028142217.htm Myosin Coherence Excerpt: Quantum physics and molecular biology are two disciplines that have evolved relatively independently. However, recently a wealth of evidence has demonstrated the importance of quantum mechanics for biological systems and thus a new field of quantum biology is emerging. Living systems have mastered the making and breaking of chemical bonds, which are quantum mechanical phenomena. Absorbance of frequency specific radiation (e.g. photosynthesis and vision), conversion of chemical energy into mechanical motion (e.g. ATP cleavage) and single electron transfers through biological polymers (e.g. DNA or proteins) are all quantum mechanical effects. http://www.energetic-medicine.net/bioenergetic-articles/articles/63/1/Myosin-Coherence/Page1.html Persistent dynamic entanglement from classical motion: How bio-molecular machines can generate non-trivial quantum states - November 2011 Excerpt: We also show how conformational changes can be used by an elementary machine to generate entanglement even in unfavorable conditions. In biological systems, similar mechanisms could be exploited by more complex molecular machines or motors. http://arxiv.org/abs/1111.2126 etc.. etc..bornagain77
September 4, 2013
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For Alan Fox- Silent mutations are changes to the DNA that still code for the same amino acid. However not all silent mutations are equal as some cause the final protein to be deformed, ie not the configuration of the normal type. That is how and why alleged silent mutations can and do cause problems.Joe
September 4, 2013
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Alan Fox:
I assert that known proteins will reliably assume specific conformations based on sequence, pH, salinity, temperature, electrostatics, hydrogen bonding, hydrophobic/hydrophilic attraction, quaternary conformation.
Assert all you want- you still don't have any evidence to support your tripe. Heck even alleged “silent” mutations can cause proteins to misfold even though the amino acid sequence is the same.
I think you need to look carefully about what you have written, here, Joe.
I have and I take it you cannot grasp it.
I’ll let you have a go at correcting it in case it is just a case of careless phrasing.
It's fine the way it is. Do you know what a silent mutation is, Alan? Or didn't you know that they can screw up the final protein?Joe
September 4, 2013
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AF, you just excluded yourself from civil discussion. My wife and children were subjected to outing and mafiosio style threats, which have been cheered on by rthe3 movement you are a part of, with nary an objection. You now wish to pretend that to take such threats seriously when they target my own family is unjustified. Sorry, you just showed your cold hearted hatred of people you disagree with. No wonder you were willing to associate yourself with the projection of false accusations and worse. The game is over, AF. You have gone beyond all limits of civility, and from now on, I will take you at that standard which you have earned. KF
I am not part of any movement. I have not made nor enabled any "mafioso-style threats" to you or your family by any means. I am unaware of any credible physical threat made by any person (associated with me - certainly not) to you or your family. And just for the record, I don't hate you. I am puzzled and disappointed to note your closed-mindedness and prejudice on many issues but that can possibly be rectified, which is why I still sometimes attempt to enter into dialogue with you.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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Oops missed out some words I should have said: ...prior prediction of the properties of a novel protein solely from its sequence is a task beyond the resources of existing technology.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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..genetic engineering has been a bust because the polypeptides did NOT reliably fold into specific shapes.
I assert that known proteins will reliably assume specific conformations based on sequence, pH, salinity, temperature, electrostatics, hydrogen bonding, hydrophobic/hydrophilic attraction, quaternary conformation. The issue is that nobody can reliably predict the property of a novel protein in advance as yet. The only way to find out what a novel protein will be like is to synthesize it and see; a task beyond the resources of existing technology.
Heck even alleged “silent” mutations can cause proteins to misfold even though the amino acid sequence is the same.
I think you need to look carefully about what you have written, here, Joe. I'll let you have a go at correcting it in case it is just a case of careless phrasing.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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And more bluffing bluster:
What makes proteins fold into beta sheets? Physics and chemistry.
Evidence please.
How do chaperone molecules do their work (prevention of aggregation and prevention against heat-shock)? Physics and chemistry.
Evidence please. Also your position can't even explain chaperones!Joe
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F/N 4: Onlookers, kindly note this lecture on the ongoing slaughter of the dissidents enabled by the ilk of AF and ever so many more. KFkairosfocus
September 4, 2013
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AF, you just excluded yourself from civil discussion. My wife and children were subjected to outing and mafiosio style threats, which have been cheered on by rthe3 movement you are a part of, with nary an objection. You now wish to pretend that to take such threats seriously when they target my own family is unjustified. Sorry, you just showed your cold hearted hatred of people you disagree with. No wonder you were willing to associate yourself with the projection of false accusations and worse. The game is over, AF. You have gone beyond all limits of civility, and from now on, I will take you at that standard which you have earned. KFkairosfocus
September 4, 2013
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Alan Fox- all bluff and bluster and STILL no evidence to support any of his tripe.
Proteins reliably fold into specific shapes because of their inherent chemical and physical properties...
Evidence please. Ya see genetic engineering has been a bust because the polypeptides did NOT reliably fold into specific shapes. Heck even alleged "silent" mutations can cause proteins to misfold even though the amino acid sequence is the same. IOW Alan you don't have a clue and it shows.Joe
September 4, 2013
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KF @ 204
PRIONS
What makes proteins fold into beta sheets? Physics and chemistry. How do chaperone molecules do their work (prevention of aggregation and prevention against heat-shock)? Physics and chemistry. Or are there tiny, tiny little designers in hard hats manipulating, steering, screwing things together?Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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AF: You evidently don’t care to remember that you are involved in a movement where there were attempts to hold MY children and MY wife hostage by mafiosio threats that unlike you in your comfortable scoffing, I have had to take very seriously indeed. Shame on you !!!!!!! KF
Preposterous paranoid piffle. I am involved in no movements. It is your paranoid perception building (I think you are referring to a particular comment by a particular commenter in a forum where I would certainly not have any editorial influence) pixels on a screen to a credible physical threat. It's preposterous.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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Mr. Fox, It would seem that when you claim that protein folding belongs strictly to the would of classical physics, i.e. "given sequence, temperature, pH, ion balance in an aqueous medium it will happen", that in your haste to defend all things Darwinian you forgot to read the last part of the cite you were so quick to dismiss: Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins. That’s a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo’s equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics. Now all you would have to do to keep this within the classical reductive materialism of neo-Darwinism is mathematically prove that protein folding belongs to the world of classical physics instead of quantum physics! :) Something tells me that you will not succeed in explaining quantum entanglement within proteins to a classical worldview: Closing the last Bell-test loophole for photons - Jun 11, 2013 Excerpt: that confirmed quantum entanglement to nearly 70 standard deviations.,,, http://phys.org/news/2013-06-bell-test-loophole-photons.html The following articles give us a small glimpse as to what it truly means for entanglement to be confirmed to an order of '70 standard deviations': Standard deviation Excerpt: Particle physics uses a standard of "5 sigma" for the declaration of a discovery.[3] At five-sigma there is only one chance in nearly two million that a random fluctuation would yield the result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation#Particle_physics SSDD: a 22 sigma event is consistent with the physics of fair coins? - June 23, 2013 Excerpt: So 500 coins heads is (500-250)/11 = 22 standard deviations (22 sigma) from expectation! These numbers are so extreme, it’s probably inappropriate to even use the normal distribution’s approximation of the binomial distribution, and hence “22 sigma” just becomes a figure of speech in this extreme case… https://uncommondescent.com/mathematics/ssdd-a-22-sigma-event-is-consistent-with-the-physics-of-fair-coins/bornagain77
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AF: You evidently don't care to remember that you are involved in a movement where there were attempts to hold MY children and MY wife hostage by mafiosio threats that unlike you in your comfortable scoffing, I have had to take very seriously indeed. Shame on you !!!!!!! KFkairosfocus
September 4, 2013
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F/N 3: On the way out the door, my eye was caught by the above ill-informed dismissal of the challenge of protein folding. I give a one word comment: PRIONS Think about what that implies, courtesy mad cow disease and the significance of chaperoned folding of proteins. KFkairosfocus
September 4, 2013
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Let me simply note that organising work implies the orderly, force-driven arrangement of components in accord with requisites of specific function, and this does not change whether we are discussing how a Toyota car assembly plant works, the building of a home brew computer, or the nanotech [sic] of the living cell.
I hardly know where to begin. KF, you may have a masters in electrical engineering but your ignorance of cell chemistry appears profound.If you can show where the tiny builders in hard hats are in the cells of living organisms, then I will concede you have a point. Heck, just one tiny builder will do as an example.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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It seems that AF and other enablers of expelling, outing, attempts to hold innocent family members (including CHILDREN) hostage and the like go ballistic when the historical reminder that there comes a day when the defences crumble and a once dominant and domineeringly abusive ideology collapses. Then, there is an accounting, not only for those who actively engaged in thuggish tactics or worse, but also for the enablers who were part of the support networks or culture that allowed such bully-boy fascist thuggishness to proceed.
Do you ever read what you write? You are now accusing me of enabling people to take children hostage? I do cut you plenty of leeway but come on, man, this is absurd even by your overblown standards.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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F/N 3: Just as a simple parting point, AF. Brownian motion is a random motion triggered by particles participating in the chaotic thermal agitation in the environment. It (or rather the underlying dynamic) is responsible for diffusion and other random walk scattering, DIS-organising processes. That is, your attempt to appeal to such to explain complex specific functional organisation is inadvertently revealing of just that appeal to anything that seems remotely plausible to the eye of darwinist faith. It seems obvious you have never seriously read or understood my discussion here of exactly this point in my always linked, or its context from here on on the implications of the dynamics behind the second law of thermodynamics. Let me simply note that organising work implies the orderly, force-driven arrangement of components in accord with requisites of specific function, and this does not change whether we are discussing how a Toyota car assembly plant works, the building of a home brew computer, or the nanotech of the living cell. That you appeal to forces that are overwhelmingly forces of disorganisation to try to explain away the challenges of organisation is utterly -- sadly -- revealing, and that after eight years hanging around UD to snip, snipe and object. I could go on at length, but the point is made, the links give enough food for thought and a busy day beckons. KFkairosfocus
September 4, 2013
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The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from.
Rampant anthropomorphism. Proteins reliably fold into specific shapes because of their inherent chemical and physical properties; given sequence, temperature, pH, ion balance in an aqueous medium it will happen. Choice, my eye.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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as to: "I’m sure she has better things to do than concern herself with all the minutiae of every molecule in every cell in every organism." If I wanted Theodicy I would read Origin of Species by Darwin. I could care less what your personal opinion is as to what God would and would not do in this universe and only care about what the scientific evidence says, and along that line we find 'non-local' beyond space and time, quantum entanglement all over molecular biology: Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011 Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way. Excerpt: First, a little background on protein folding. Proteins are long chains of amino acids that become biologically active only when they fold into specific, highly complex shapes. The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from. To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,, Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins. That's a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo's equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/423087/physicists-discover-quantum-law-of-protein/ INFORMATION AND ENERGETICS OF QUANTUM FLAGELLA MOTOR Hiroyuki Matsuura, Nobuo Noda, Kazuharu Koide Tetsuya Nemoto and Yasumi Ito Excerpt from bottom page 7: Note that the physical principle of flagella motor does not belong to classical mechanics, but to quantum mechanics. When we can consider applying quantum physics to flagella motor, we can find out the shift of energetic state and coherent state. http://www2.ktokai-u.ac.jp/~shi/el08-046.pdf Coherent Intrachain energy migration at room temperature - Elisabetta Collini and Gregory Scholes - University of Toronto - Science, 323, (2009), pp. 369-73 Excerpt: The authors conducted an experiment to observe quantum coherence dynamics in relation to energy transfer. The experiment, conducted at room temperature, examined chain conformations, such as those found in the proteins of living cells. Neighbouring molecules along the backbone of a protein chain were seen to have coherent energy transfer. Where this happens quantum decoherence (the underlying tendency to loss of coherence due to interaction with the environment) is able to be resisted, and the evolution of the system remains entangled as a single quantum state. http://www.scimednet.org/quantum-coherence-living-cells-and-protein/ Looking Beyond Space and Time to Cope With Quantum Theory – (Oct. 28, 2012) Excerpt: To derive their inequality, which sets up a measurement of entanglement between four particles, the researchers considered what behaviours are possible for four particles that are connected by influences that stay hidden and that travel at some arbitrary finite speed. Mathematically (and mind-bogglingly), these constraints define an 80-dimensional object. The testable hidden influence inequality is the boundary of the shadow this 80-dimensional shape casts in 44 dimensions. The researchers showed that quantum predictions can lie outside this boundary, which means they are going against one of the assumptions. Outside the boundary, either the influences can’t stay hidden, or they must have infinite speed.,,, The remaining option is to accept that (quantum) influences must be infinitely fast,,, “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” says Nicolas Gisin, Professor at the University of Geneva, Switzerland,,, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028142217.htmbornagain77
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F/N 2: On tours of shame. It seems that AF and other enablers of expelling, outing, attempts to hold innocent family members (including CHILDREN) hostage and the like go ballistic when the historical reminder that there comes a day when the defences crumble and a once dominant and domineeringly abusive ideology collapses. Then, there is an accounting, not only for those who actively engaged in thuggish tactics or worse, but also for the enablers who were part of the support networks or culture that allowed such bully-boy fascist thuggishness to proceed. (And, onlookers, the list of thuggish behaviours listed above is something I know from personal experience with Darwinist thugs.) Yes, that picture of a well dressed, well coiffed respectable "Aryan" blonde woman averting her head in distress from the sight of victims of mass murder as she was frog marched from Munich on a tour of nearby Buchenwald concentration camp is an ugly picture. It is also an apt illustration of what happens when those who indulged in denial, scapegoating and enabling are forced to confront the consequences of their enabling behaviour. But we are not nazis and have not engaged in atrocities! (Where of course -- for months now -- I have been falsely accused of being a nazi with the enabling of AF, EL and others; the precise context in which I have spoken to what happened to enablers of evil nigh on seventy years ago now. For the thought crime of having principled objections to the radical homosexualisation of our civilisation. And, as a black man, I can tell you that the attempt to hijack concerns over racism to make principled objections to homosexualism take on the taint of racism is an outrage that the ghosts of millions victims of the middle passage object to. Cf here on the new blasphemy accusation, and here on the my genes made me do it notion [at least, read the introductory chapter], in case you do not understand that there can be and are principled objections to homosexualisation -- itself a grim sign of what has gone wrong in our civilisation and of just how ruthlessly we are being manipulated by radicals in power, following these marketing of evil tactics. Which, BTW, not coincidentally, is one of many decadent and destructive trends that are being enabled by the inherent amorality and radical relativism of evolutionary materialism. An undermining of core values and institutions that undergird public morality and justice, as Plato warned against in The Laws Bk X 2350 years ago. As in, ask yourself: what happens when ideologies that imply that "the highest right is might" seize the commanding heights of influence and decision-making in a civilisation?) Neither was our well dressed lady an outright Nazi war criminal, or she would have been in a cell on war crimes charges. She was an enabler, one of many brought to be a witness to the horrible reality that her enabling, along with that of millions of others, had helped sustain. And so, she was on a tour of shame, in the face of exhibits of the reality created by surviving victims. As the video of the newsreel informs. (Onlookers, kindly cf. here for what AF does not want you to ponder.) Now, let us refresh our minds from Provine's statement at that U Tenn Darwin Day event of 1998, so we can all understand -- and no KN, flicking this off as if it is of no account will not be acceptable given what is at stake and is happening . . . -- just what is at stake in our civilisation thanks to a priori materialistic, scientistic, rabid, self-referentially absurd secularism:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will . . .
Let us spell it out a little bit. No free will exists. That means, we are incapable of genuinely responsible decision or choice. We are -- on this ideology -- simply meat robots playing out the in-stamped blind and a-rational a-moral programming of genetic chance and necessity multiplied by whatever accidents of social and cultural conditioning. Reason is dead, moral responsibility is dead, man is dead. On such premises, we are, whether we want to openly acknowledge it or not [and whether we are willing to face the reductions implicit in more subtle forms of evolutionary materialism], pretty much as Crick put it in his The Astonishing Hypothesis, 1994:
. . . that "You", your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.
This is absurd, as it is self referential and self undermining. If we were indeed like this not even Crick could know or warrant knowledge or reason reliably. This ideology is intellectually suicidal, and morally suicidal; turning us into cosmic detritus of no more value than a bit of rubbish cast up on a beach by the blind force of the waves, drifting with no purpose or capability to make responsible and genuinely free choice. But just because something is absurd does not mean that it cannot have great influence and power. Just, -- as the ghosts of the victims of 53 million abortions in just the USA since the radically secularist decision of 1973 warn us -- that influence and power will be inevitably absurd, self destructive and dangerous. In that light, I again remind us to soberly reflect on Plato's warning, which is fresher than next week's headlines:
Ath. . . . [[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that . . . The elements are severally moved by chance and some inherent force according to certain affinities among them-of hot with cold, or of dry with moist, or of soft with hard, and according to all the other accidental admixtures of opposites which have been formed by necessity. After this fashion and in this manner the whole heaven has been created, and all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only. [[In short, evolutionary materialism premised on chance plus necessity acting without intelligent guidance on primordial matter is hardly a new or a primarily "scientific" view! Notice also, the trichotomy of causal factors: (a) chance/accident, (b) mechanical necessity of nature, (c) art or intelligent design and direction.] . . . . [[Thus, they hold that t]he Gods exist not by nature, but by art, and by the laws of states, which are different in different places, according to the agreement of those who make them; and that the honourable is one thing by nature and another thing by law, and that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.- [[Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT. (Cf. here for Locke's views and sources on a very different base for grounding liberty as opposed to license and resulting anarchistic "every man does what is right in his own eyes" chaos leading to tyranny. )] These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might [[ Evolutionary materialism leads to the promotion of amorality], and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [[Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles; cf. dramatisation here], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is, to live in real dominion over others [[such amoral factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless tyranny], and not in legal subjection to them.
In short, evolutionary materialism, once it has seized the imaginations of so-called leading lights, has an inner dynamic that undermines knowledge, reason, reasonableness, mutuality, respect, restraint, justice, law and morality, opening the doors wide to ruthless factions and to the assumption that might and manipulation make 'right' nihilism and chaos, ending in tyranny. Resemblance to what is going on in our civilisation as we speak is NOT coincidental. Hence, the importance of spotting and spotlighting what is going on to give warning. And hence also the umbrage taken at the preview of the coming REAL* tour of shame by those caught red handed in the spot beam. KF *PS: I don't usually do this here at UD, but we need to face some sobering, eternally freighted issues linked to what is going on in our civilisation:
Ac 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” [with over 500 witnesses, none of whom could be broken, not be dungeon, fire, sword or worse] Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to [men], because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. [--> whether carved stone idols in temples surrounded by myths or icons in museums, magazines, documentary videos, glossy magazines and textbooks backed up by scientistic ideology makes but little difference] 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature [--> this includes worshiping oneself in self-aggrandising pride] rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! 2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Eph 4:17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self,[f] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. [ESV]
kairosfocus
September 4, 2013
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as to: "OK. Take a bow, type III secretory pore." Surely you are not this dense! Presenting the Positive Case for Design - Casey Luskin - February 14, 2012 Excerpt: If you think of the flagellum like an outboard motor, and the T3SS like a squirt gun, the parts they share are the ones that allow them to be mounted on the bracket of a boat. But the parts that give them their distinct functions -- propulsion or injection -- are not shared. I said that thinking you can explain the flagellum simply by referring me to the T3SS is like saying if you can account for the origin of the mounting-bracket on the back of you boat, then you've explained the origin of the motor too -- which obviously makes no sense. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/at_north_dakota056351.html "One fact in favour of the flagellum-first view is that bacteria would have needed propulsion before they needed T3SSs, which are used to attack cells that evolved later than bacteria. Also, flagella are found in a more diverse range of bacterial species than T3SSs. ‘The most parsimonious explanation is that the T3SS arose later," Howard Ochman - Biochemist - New Scientist (Feb 16, 2008)bornagain77
September 4, 2013
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Oops to not yoAlan Fox
September 4, 2013
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Phil @ 193 God designed physics and all the emergent properties that combine yo result in self-organisation. I'm sure she has better things to do than concern herself with all the minutiae of every molecule in every cell in every organism. Otherwise imagine how boring it must be to keep doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same way, over and over and over. How much more powerful to get the molecules to do the work for you!Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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as to: "Nope. The (bacterial cell is a small encosed space containing an aqueous medium, not a factory floor. Molecules whizz around – it’s called Crownian motion – and constantly bump into each other." You really need to get out more and read something else besides Darwinian propaganda: No, Scientists in Darwin's Day Did Not Grasp the Complexity of the Cell; Not Even Close - Casey Luskin - June 6, 2013 Excerpt: We have always underestimated cells. Undoubtedly we still do today. But at least we are no longer as naïve as we were when I was a graduate student in the 1960s. Then, most of us viewed cells as containing a giant set of second-order reactions: molecules A and B were thought to diffuse freely, randomly colliding with each other to produce molecule AB -- and likewise for the many other molecules that interact with each other inside a cell. This seemed reasonable because, as we had learned from studying physical chemistry, motions at the scale of molecules are incredibly rapid. Consider an enzyme, for example. If its substrate molecule is present at a concentration of 0.5mM,which is only one substrate molecule for every 105 water molecules, the enzyme's active site will randomly collide with about 500,000 molecules of substrate per second. And a typical globular protein will be spinning to and fro, turning about various axes at rates corresponding to a million rotations per second. But, as it turns out, we can walk and we can talk because the chemistry that makes life possible is much more elaborate and sophisticated than anything we students had ever considered. Proteins make up most of the dry mass of a cell. But instead of a cell dominated by randomly colliding individual protein molecules, we now know that nearly every major process in a cell is carried out by assemblies of 10 or more protein molecules. And, as it carries out its biological functions, each of these protein assemblies interacts with several other large complexes of proteins. Indeed, the entire cell can be viewed as a factory that contains an elaborate network of interlocking assembly lines, each of which is composed of a set of large protein machines." (Bruce Alberts, "The Cell as a Collection of Protein Machines: Preparing the Next Generation of Molecular Biologists," Cell, 92 (February 6, 1998): 291-294 (emphases added).) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/06/did_scientists_072871.htmlbornagain77
September 4, 2013
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"Nope. Molecules self assemble." REALLY??? Why don't you go ahead a 'self-assemble' me a bacterial flagellum from scratch then??? “I build molecules for a living, I can’t begin to tell you how difficult that job is. I stand in awe of God because of what he has done through his creation. Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God." James Tour – one of the leading nano-tech engineers in the world - Strobel, Lee (2000), The Case For Faith, p. 111 Top Ten Most Cited Chemist in the World Knows That Evolution Doesn’t Work – James Tour, Phd. – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyAOCesHv0bornagain77
September 4, 2013
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Oops Brownian not Crownian. New glasses on my shopping list today!Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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Typically, only C1 is discussed in the usual exaptation arguments. But plainly, all five criteria must be simultaneously met at one go or the system will not function and will be selected against. By the force of the very dynamic of filtering variations on CURRENT performance that is being appealed to.
This earns a commendation as a neatly executed strawman with personal incredulity double twist. C1. OK. Take a bow, type III secretory pore. C2. Nope. So long as a mutation is not deleterious it can persist due to drift. A subsequent mutation elsewhere and voilà. C3. Nope. The (bacterial cell is a small encosed space containing an aqueous medium, not a factory floor. Molecules whizz around - it's called Crownian motion - and constantly bump into each other. C4. Nope. Molecules self assemble. Electrostatics, hyrogen bonding, hydrophobic/hydrophilic attraction, quaternary conformation. Look at membrane bilipid layers for a good example of self-organisation. C5. "...are put together in the right order..."? By very tiny designers in hard hats presumably? Nope, self assembly again. Molecules of the right shape and properties will stick together in a consistent way.Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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Yet another display station for the upcoming tour of shame.
You just wouldn't let it lie, would you!Alan Fox
September 4, 2013
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kf as to: "Any thing that is remotely plausible to the eye of Darwinist faith — and yes, this is ideological commitment we are dealing with — will do." Amen! Darwinists seem to think that if they can merely imagine it happening then it must have happened. Or as Dr. Behe puts it: "Grand Darwinian claims rest on undisciplined imagination" Dr. Michael Behe - 29:24 mark of following video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s6XAXjiyRfM#t=1762s Or as Plantinga puts the philosophical formulation of their argument: Darwinism Not Proved Impossible Therefore It Must Be True - Plantinga http://www.metacafe.com/watch/10285716/ Better known as Dumb and Dumber 'There's a Chance' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA +++++++++++++ Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Wolfgang Pauli on the Empirical Problems with Neo-Darwinism - Casey Luskin - February 27, 2012 Excerpt: "In discussions with biologists I met large difficulties when they apply the concept of 'natural selection' in a rather wide field, without being able to estimate the probability of the occurrence in a empirically given time of just those events, which have been important for the biological evolution. Treating the empirical time scale of the evolution theoretically as infinity they have then an easy game, apparently to avoid the concept of purposesiveness. While they pretend to stay in this way completely 'scientific' and 'rational,' they become actually very irrational, particularly because they use the word 'chance', not any longer combined with estimations of a mathematically defined probability, in its application to very rare single events more or less synonymous with the old word 'miracle.'" Wolfgang Pauli (pp. 27-28) - http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/nobel_prize-win056771.html “nobody to date has yet found a demarcation criterion according to which Darwin can be described as scientific” – Imre Lakatos (November 9, 1922 – February 2, 1974) a philosopher of mathematics and science, quote as stated in 1973 LSE Scientific Method Lecturebornagain77
September 4, 2013
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