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Homologies, differences and information jumps

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shark-553666_1280In recent posts, I have been discussing some important points about the reasonable meaning of homologies and differences in the proteome in the course of natural history. For the following discussion, just to be clear, I will accept a scenario of Common Descent (as explained in many recent posts) in the context of an ID approach. I will also accept the very reasonable concept that neutral or quasi-neutral random variation happens in time, and that negative (purifying) selection is the main principle which limits random variation in functional sequences.

My main points are the following:

  1. Given those premises, homologies through natural history are certainly an indicator of functional constraints, because they mean that some sequence cannot be significantly transformed by random variation. Another way to express this concept is that variation in a functional sequence with strong functional constraints is not neutral, but negative, and therefore negative selection will in mot cases suppress variation and conserve the functional sequence through time. This is a very important point, because it means that strong homologies through time point to high functional complexity, and therefore to design. I have used this kind of argument, for example, for proteins like the beta chain of ATP synthase (highly conserved from LUCA to humans) and Histone H3 (highly conserved in all eukaryotes).
  2. Differences between homologues, instead, can have two completely different meanings:
  •  2a) They can be the result of accumulating neutral variation in parts of the molecule which are not functionally constrained
  • 2b) They can be the expression of differences in function in different species and contexts

I do believe that both 2a and 2b happen and have an important role in shaping the proteome. 2b, in particular, is often underestimated. It is also, in many cases, a very good argument for ID.

 

Now, I will try to apply this reasoning to one example. I have chosen a regulatory protein, one which is not really well understood, but which has certainly an important role in epigenetic regulation. The protein is called “Prickle”, and we will consider in particular the one known as “Prickle 1”. It has come to my attention trough an interesting paper linked by Dionisio (to whom go my sincere thanks and appreciation):

Planar polarization of Vangl2 in the vertebrate neural plate is controlled by Wnt and Myosin II signaling

In brief, Prickle is a molecule implied, among other things, in planar polarization events and in the regulation of neural system in vertebrates.

Let’s have a look at the protein. From Wikipedia:

Prickle is part of the non-canonical Wnt signaling pathway that establishes planar cell polarity.[2] A gain or loss of function of Prickle1 causes defects in the convergent extension movements of gastrulation.[3] In epithelial cells, Prickle2 establishes and maintains cell apical/basal polarity.[4] Prickle1 plays an important role in the development of the nervous system by regulating the movement of nerve cells.[5

And:

Mutations in Prickle genes can cause epilepsy in humans by perturbing Prickle function.[12] One mutation in Prickle1 gene can result in Prickle1-Related Progressive Myoclonus Epilepsy-Ataxia Syndrome.[2] This mutation disrupts the interaction between prickle-like 1 and REST, which results in the inability to suppress REST.[2] Gene knockdown of Prickle1 by shRNA or dominant-negative constructs results in decreased axonal and dendritic extension in neurons in the hippocampus.[5] Prickle1 gene knockdown in neonatal retina causes defects in axon terminals of photoreceptors and in inner and outer segments.[5]

The human protein is 831 AAs long.

Its structure is interesting: according to Uniprot, in the first part of the molecule we can recognize 4 domains:

1 PET domain:  AAs 14 – 122

3 LIM zinc-binding doamins:  AAs 124 – 313

In the rest of the sequence (AAs 314 – 831) no known domain is recognized.

Here is the FASTA sequence of the human protein, divided in the two parts (red: 4 domain part; blue: no domain part):

 

>sp|Q96MT3|PRIC1_HUMAN Prickle-like protein 1 OS=Homo sapiens GN=PRICKLE1 PE=1 SV=2
MPLEMEPKMSKLAFGCQRSSTSDDDSGCALEEYAWVPPGLRPEQIQLYFACLPEEKVPYV
NSPGEKHRIKQLLYQLPPHDNEVRYCQSLSEEEKKELQVFSAQRKKEALGRGTIKLLSRA
VMHAVCEQCGLKINGGEVAVFASRAGPGVCWHPSCFVCFTCNELLVDLIYFYQDGKIHCG
RHHAELLKPRCSACDEIIFADECTEAEGRHWHMKHFCCLECETVLGGQRYIMKDGRPFCC
GCFESLYAEYCETCGEHIGVDHAQMTYDGQHWHATEACFSCAQCKASLLGCPFLPKQGQI
YCSKTCSLGEDVHASDSSDSAFQSARSRDSRRSVRMGKSSRSADQCRQSLLLSPALNYKF
PGLSGNADDTLSRKLDDLSLSRQGTSFASEEFWKGRVEQETPEDPEEWADHEDYMTQLLL
KFGDKSLFQPQPNEMDIRASEHWISDNMVKSKTELKQNNQSLASKKYQSDMYWAQSQDGL
GDSAYGSHPGPASSRRLQELELDHGASGYNHDETQWYEDSLECLSDLKPEQSVRDSMDSL
ALSNITGASVDGENKPRPSLYSLQNFEEMETEDCEKMSNMGTLNSSMLHRSAESLKSLSS
ELCPEKILPEEKPVHLPVLRRSKSQSRPQQVKFSDDVIDNGNYDIEIRQPPMSERTRRRV
YNFEERGSRSHHHRRRRSRKSRSDNALNLVTERKYSPKDRLRLYTPDNYEKFIQNKSARE
IQAYIQNADLYGQYAHATSDYGLQNPGMNRFLGLYGEDDDSWCSSSSSSSDSEEEGYFLG
QPIPQPRPQRFAYYTDDLSSPPSALPTPQFGQRTTKSKKKKGHKGKNCIIS

So, this is a very interesting situation, which is not so rare. We have the first part of the sequence (313 AAs) which configures well known and conserved domains, while “the rest”(517 AAs)  is apparently not understood in terms of structure and function.

So, to better understand what all this could mean, I have blasted those two parts of the human molecule separately.

(Those who are not interested in the technical details, can choose here to go on to the conclusions  🙂 )

The first part of the sequence (AAs 1 – 313) shows no homologies in prokaryotes. So, we are apparently in the presence of domains which appear in eukaryotes.

In fungi, we find some significant, but weak, homologues. The best hit is an expect of 2e-21, with 56 identities and 93 positives (99.4 bits).

Multicellular organisms have definitely stronger homologies:

C. elegans:  144 identities, 186 positives, expect 2e-90 (282 bits)

Drosophila melanogaster:  202 identities, 244 positives, expect 5e-152 (447 bits)

Let’s go to non vertebrate chordates:

Cephalochordata (Branchiostoma floridae):  222 identities, 256 positives, expect 6e-165 (484 bits)

Tunicata (Ciona intestinalis): 196 identities, 241 positives, expect 2e-149 (442 bits)

Now, vertebrates:

Cartilaginous fishes (Callorhincus milii): 266 identities, 290 positives, expect 0.0 (588 bits)

Bony fishes (Lepisosteus oculatus): 274 identities, 292 positives, expect 0.0 (598 bits)

Mammals (Mouse): 309 identities, 312 positives, expect 0.0 (664 bits)

IOWs, what we see here is that the 4 domain part of the molecule, absent in prokaryotes, is already partially observable in single celled eukaryotes, and is strongly recognizable in all multicellular beings. It is interesting that homology with the human form is not very different between drosophila and non vertebrate chordates, while there is a significant increase in vertebrates, and practical identity already in mouse. That is a very common pattern, and IMO it can be explained as a mixed result of different functional constraints and neutral evolution in different time splits.

Now, let’s go to “the rest” of the molecule: AAs 314 – 831 (518 AAs). No recognizable domains here.

What is the behaviour of this sequence in natural history?

Again, let’s start again from the human sequence and blast it.

With Prokaryotes: no homologies

With Fungi: no homologies

C. elegans: no homologies

Drosophila melanogaster: no homologies

Let’s go to non vertebrate chordates:

Cephalochordata (Branchiostoma floridae):  no significant homologies

Tunicata (Ciona intestinalis): no significant homologies

So, there is no significant homology in the whole range of eukaryotes, excluding vertebrates and including chordates which are not vertebrates.

Now, what happens with vertebrates?

Here are the numbers:

Cartilaginous fishes (Callorhincus milii): 350 identities, 429 positives, expect 0.0 (597 bits)

Bony fishes (Lepisosteus oculatus): 396 identities, 446 positives, expect 0.0 (662 bits)

Mammals (Mouse): 466 identities, 491 positives, expect 0.0 (832 bits)

IOWs, what we see here is that the no domain part of the molecule is practically non existent in prokaryotes, in single celled eukaryotes and in all multicellular beings which are not vertebrates. In vertebrates, the sequence is not only present in practically all vertebrates, but it is also extremely conserved, from sharks to humans. So, we have a steep informational jump from non chordates and non vertebrate chordates, where the sequence is practically absent, to the very first vertebrates, where the sequence is already highly specific.

What does that mean from an ID point of view? It’s simple:

a) The sequence of 517 AAs which represents the major part of the human protein must be reasonably considered highly functional, because it is strongly conserved throughout vertebrate evolution. As we have said in the beginning, the only reasonable explanation for high conservation throughout a span of time which must be more than 400 million years long is the presence of strong functional constraints in the sequence.

b) The sequence and its function, whatever it may be (but it is probably an important regulatory function) is highly specific of vertebrates.

We have here a very good example of a part of a protein which practically appears in vertebrates while it is absent before, and which is reasonably highly functional in vertebrates.

So, to sum up:

  1. Prickle 1 is a functional protein which is found in all eukaryotes.
  2. The human sequence can be divided in two parts, with different properties.
  3. The first part, while undergoing evolutionary changes, is rather well conserved in all eukaryotes. Its function can be better understood, because it is made of known domains with known structure.
  4. The second part does not include any known domain or structure, and is practically absent in all eukaryotes except vertebrates.
  5. In vertebrates, it is highly conserved and almost certainly highly functional. Probably as a regulatory epigenetic sequence.
  6. For its properties, this second part, and its functional sequence, are a very reasonable object for a strong design inference.

 

I have added a graph to show better what is described in the conclusions, in particular the information jump in vertebrates for the second part of the sequence:

Graph3

Note: Thanks to the careful checking of Alicia Cartelli, I have corrected a couple of minor imprecisions in the data and the graph (see posts #83 and #136). Thank you, Alicia, for your commitment. The sense of the post, however, does not change.

Those who are interested in the evolutionary behaviour of protein Prickle 2 could give a look at my posts #127 and #137.

Comments
seanpit @ 852
Regarding the odds of stable protein folding for a random protein sequence: In short, most mutations that affect a region or island cluster of thermodynamically stable sequences in sequence space are destabilizing in such a way that each additional mutation has an exponentially destabilizing effect. Obviously, this means that the vast majority of sequences in sequence space would not produce viably stable proteins. It also suggests that as sequence space increases in size by 20^N, the ratio of viable vs. non-viable sequences, not just systems, decreases exponentially.
So, what's your theory of protein folds? That Designer intervenes through some 5th force to fold the protein?Me_Think
March 21, 2016
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seanpit: "Obviously, this means that the vast majority of sequences in sequence space would not produce viably stable proteins. It also suggests that as sequence space increases in size by 20^N, the ratio of viable vs. non-viable sequences, not just systems, decreases exponentially." Absolutely true. That's why the biases and ideological papers about protein functional space which are commonly used for darwinist propaganda, like the quoted one, are realized anyway with short protein sequences. In the case of the Szostak paper, 80 AAs.gpuccio
March 21, 2016
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Zachriel: "There is nothing unexpected in evolutionary theory about such a gap." There is nothing unexpected in evolutionary theory. Period.gpuccio
March 21, 2016
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Zachriel: "about 1 in 10^11 random sequences fold into a functional protein." Again? That is simply not true. That paper does not show anything like that. If you want to be honest, the most you can say is: "about 1 in 10^11 random sequences have some weak binding for ATP, and after those sequences are artificially selected for that property and artificially engineered by random mutations and intelligent selections for that property, we can get some folding which enhances the original binding, although that still does not represent a functionally naturally selectable protein."gpuccio
March 21, 2016
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seanpit: Keefe and Szostak 2001 clearly show ... ... about 1 in 10^11 random sequences fold into a functional protein.Zachriel
March 20, 2016
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Bill Cole and Zachriel, Regarding the odds of stable protein folding for a random protein sequence: In short, most mutations that affect a region or island cluster of thermodynamically stable sequences in sequence space are destabilizing in such a way that each additional mutation has an exponentially destabilizing effect. Obviously, this means that the vast majority of sequences in sequence space would not produce viably stable proteins. It also suggests that as sequence space increases in size by 20^N, the ratio of viable vs. non-viable sequences, not just systems, decreases exponentially. "This is the reason why "simulations (Taverna and Goldstein 2002a) and experiments (Davidson et al. 1995; Keefe and Szostak 2001) clearly show that the vast majority of protein sequences do not stably fold into any structure (meaning the least stable folded protein is still far more stable than the typical random sequence)." The number of stable/viable 1000aa sequences in sequence space is around 1e707. Given the size of sequence space at this level is 20^1000, the ratio of viable vs. non-viable is ~1e-594. And, this isn't the worst of it. This number is "further reduced by the dual requirements of stability and kinetic accessibility and the number of sequences that are biologically competent." In short, the ratio of 1e-594 potential targets vs. non-targets is being generous for 1000aa sequence space. Sean Pitman http://www.detectingdesign.com/flagellum.html#Calculationseanpit
March 19, 2016
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EugeneS Thanks for your post. We are in very interesting scientific times. I remember in the 1980's when I had to re learn management in order to keep up with the Japanese companies we were competing with. People hold on to old paradigms until it affects their survival. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.bill cole
March 19, 2016
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Zachriel Thank you for the paper. It will be interesting to follow the dei novo gene experiments going forward.bill cole
March 19, 2016
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bill cole: As you move forward in evolution the odds of finding a new protein get longer and longer as proteins have to work together and find fit in charge and shape. Which explains the high death rate and low transcription rates of de novo genes. You might find this overview helpful: Schlötterer, Genes from scratch – the evolutionary fate of de novo genes, Trends in Genetics 2005.Zachriel
March 19, 2016
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Bill Cole Thanks for sharing your arguments. Evolutionists are rarely being specific. Science though involves concrete figures, calculations, probabilities etc. That is exactly their weakest point. They can tell you stories. However these stories shatter against reality.EugeneS
March 19, 2016
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bill cole: The probability depends on the length of the amino acid sequence and the specificity of the protein. Your claim concerned the evolution of any new protein.Zachriel
March 19, 2016
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Zachriel: While evolution doesn’t work with random sequences, as an experiment, if we take a random sequence of amino acids, what are the odds it will fold into a functional protein? The probability depends on the length of the amino acid sequence and the specificity of the protein. For a nuclear protein that works with several other proteins like beta catenin the amino acid sequence must be specific so the odds of randomly finding this protein are less than 20^200 which is exceeding low. In general the sequence information is a great mystery given that we have no idea how to generate this data from scratch. Any process involving trial and error would fail with all the computer power in the world. This is why I am so skeptical of the current mechanisms. As you move forward in evolution the odds of finding a new protein get longer and longer as proteins have to work together and find fit in charge and shape.bill cole
March 18, 2016
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bill cole: I have seen paper that say what you are claiming here and agree this is possible but a some point you need a new sequence While evolution doesn't work with random sequences, as an experiment, if we take a random sequence of amino acids, what are the odds it will fold into a functional protein?Zachriel
March 18, 2016
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Zachriel Zachriel:Or if transcribed, it can increase its activity, as well as modify that activity. If you are talking about de novo genes, there are several mechanisms by which they can occur, including exon shuffling, or born from non-genic sequences. I have seen paper that say what you are claiming here and agree this is possible but a some point you need a new sequence and run into the same problem you and Sean are discussing. I think he is making strong arguments and you should ask more questions of him.bill cole
March 18, 2016
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bill cole: One of my ideas of a new specie is one that has new proteins. I will concede branching is possible if a new specie does not require new proteins. New proteins are not required. For instance, many beetles speciate when their sex organs change shape. bill cole: If a gene is copied and not transcribed then it can start to mutate without affecting the animal. Or if transcribed, it can increase its activity, as well as modify that activity. If you are talking about de novo genes, there are several mechanisms by which they can occur, including exon shuffling, or born from non-genic sequences.Zachriel
March 18, 2016
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You’re confusing adaptation with speciation. The evidence for branching descent generally does not depend on the evidence for adaptation.
One of my ideas of a new specie is one that has new proteins. I will concede branching is possible if a new specie does not require new proteins.
According to that argument, there can be no evolution at all. In any case, life never leaves areas of functionality, or it would cease to exist.
If a gene is copied and not transcribed then it can start to mutate without affecting the animal. This is the current thinking around the emergence of novel genes. INMHO people who believe in this hypothesis do not understand the sequential space problem.bill cole
March 17, 2016
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bill cole: The sequential space problem is not easy conceptually but when you get the “a ha” moment and understand the magnitude of this problem I think you will understand my skepticism. You're confusing adaptation with speciation. The evidence for branching descent generally does not depend on the evidence for adaptation. bill cole: Once you leave the island of functionality you are lost in “space” forever. According to that argument, there can be no evolution at all. In any case, life never leaves areas of functionality, or it would cease to exist.Zachriel
March 17, 2016
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Zachriel
The basic syllogism is as follows: If branching descent, then nested hierarchy, and sterility various in degree. These we observe, supporting the hypothesis. We also observe speciation, for example, in the genus Galeopsis, whereby a new polyploid species formed through hybridization. And we have many examples of recent speciation, such as has occurred in island radiations.
Very interesting, thanks. My skepticism about the mechanism is exactly shared with Sean's recent article that you were commenting on. The sequential space problem is not easy conceptually but when you get the "a ha" moment and understand the magnitude of this problem I think you will understand my skepticism. Sequential space is essentially infinity when sequences with 20 possibilities get over 100 strings long. Once you leave the island of functionality you are lost in "space" forever.bill cole
March 17, 2016
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bill cole: Yes, this is the current story As supported by the evidence. • the nested hierarchy • reproductive isolation • sterility various in degree (Darwin, Origin of Species, 1872) • direct observations of changes in reproductive isolation. The basic syllogism is as follows: If branching descent, then nested hierarchy, and sterility various in degree. These we observe, supporting the hypothesis. We also observe speciation, for example, in the genus Galeopsis, whereby a new polyploid species formed through hybridization. And we have many examples of recent speciation, such as has occurred in island radiations.Zachriel
March 17, 2016
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Zachriel
Speciation is due to a number of mechanisms, such as polyploidy. However, the typical process is gradual. A population becomes divided, such as due to geography, then begins to diverge, both because of selection and because of drift. As they diverge, they become more and more reproductively isolated. Sometimes, there are physical barriers to reproduction. Other times, the barriers are behavioral. Once completely separated, they continue to follow their own evolutionary path.
Yes, this is the current story I recognize, however I am very skeptical that these mechanisms can cause a new specie to form. The sequential space to the genome is simply too large. There are also complex epigenetic changes and alternative splicing changes that need to be accounted for. For instance if you asked what is the source of splicing changes no one could tell you. I think the real answer is we have no idea how speciation occurs. There are millions of unique species on this planet and we are not able to demonstrate HOW one transition occurred. You said it is a branching process and I accept that but when I ask how the branching occurs you give the above explanation which is almost certainly wrong due to the biochemical changes required.bill cole
March 17, 2016
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bill cole: I am trying to work with you to understand what it really means. It means that different species share a common ancestor. bill cole: My thoughts are without a defined mechanism or cause it means common biochemical and anatomic components which in itself is real evidence. Not sure how to parse that. If there is a branching process, then traits will form a nested hierarchy. bill cole: The next step is significant, which is can we understand the cause of how speciation occurred? Is it natural variation followed by population genetics and selection or is it directed. Speciation is due to a number of mechanisms, such as polyploidy. However, the typical process is gradual. A population becomes divided, such as due to geography, then begins to diverge, both because of selection and because of drift. As they diverge, they become more and more reproductively isolated. Sometimes, there are physical barriers to reproduction. Other times, the barriers are behavioral. Once completely separated, they continue to follow their own evolutionary path.Zachriel
March 17, 2016
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Zachriel
Then why not respond to the specifics. Are you rejecting common descent, or just have questions about how it occurs?
No, I am not rejecting common decent. I am trying to work with you to understand what it really means. My thoughts are without a defined mechanism or cause it means common biochemical and anatomic components which in itself is real evidence. The next step is significant, which is can we understand the cause of how speciation occurred? Is it natural variation followed by population genetics and selection or is it directed. In nature we see both occur... Lenski experiment is and example of natural variation and selection. An embryo is and of example of directed change.bill cole
March 16, 2016
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gpuccio: Let’s assume for a moment that you have all those fixations, and that by some magic you lose all the intermediates. It's not magic, but population genetics. gpuccio: “if there is a direct selectable pathway” The question being addressed was the so-called "gap" that occurred during a period of a hundred million years. There is nothing unexpected in evolutionary theory about such a gap.Zachriel
March 16, 2016
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Zachriel: I appreciate your answer. I would remark that the role of peripheral populations remains scarcely clear. You say that they allow for "experimentation and fixation". Well, while fixation is certainly easier in a small population, I really can't see what "experimentation" we can expect with minimal probabilistic resources. Let's go to big populations, which indeed are the only ones which are really in the game, for complex functional information. Let's assume for a moment that you have all those fixations, and that by some magic you lose all the intermediates. The biggest if remains just the same. You are well aware of that if: "if there is a direct selectable pathway" (emphasis mine). A direct selectable pathway which has never been found even for one single complex protein. A direct selectable pathway which does not exist in any other form of complex digital functional information, not in software and not in language, nor in any kind of complex machine. A direct selectable pathway which is only imagined in name of some protein functional landscape which is not supported by any facts, or by any reasonable data about proteins. IOWs, an "ad hoc" concept which has no scientific validity.gpuccio
March 16, 2016
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gpuccio: I think you have never answered my point that “geographic separation” and “reproductive isolation” are factors which drastically minimize the advantage attributed to NS, because they drastically reduce the size of the population, and therefore the expansion of the selected trait, and therefore the gain in probabilistic resources. Asked and answered. Large populations allow for the growth of diversity, while peripheral populations allow for experimentation and fixation, which then overtake the parent population, often as a new species. However, even with a large population, time to fixation of a selectable trait, if fixation does occur, is typically only a few thousand generations. Consider a a simplified model, a well-mixed species of fish with a population of a million and a genome of 100 million base-pairs reproducing once a year. And assume a selectable mutation that provides a mere 0.01 selective benefit. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, the mutation will be lost to drift. In a population of a million, we expect the mutation to occur once every couple hundred generations or so. For the one in a couple hundred that reaches fixation, it will take an average of about 3000 generations to reach fixation, or 3000 years. Now, if there is a direct selectable pathway, then 1000 mutations could fix in a few million years. This is a simplified model, but then again, your objection is based on a simplified model. What really happens is that when a selectable mutation begins to expand in the population, it is more likely to have a second selectable mutation, increasing its rate of expansion, and possibly increasing the rate of speciation. Other mutations also confer benefits to other populations, leading to diversification and speciation. This is a chaotic process that doesn't yield to simple computation, but can be simulated.Zachriel
March 16, 2016
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bill cole: The tree you are talking about is a conceptual tree not one planted in the ground that you can observe… An oak tree. Your claim is that if we don't know the mechanism of branching, then we can't determine that branching has occurred. That is clearly not the case. However, we provided evidence of supporting that branching has occurred, and evidence of mechanisms of branching. bill cole: I have not ignored the evidence, I have evaluated it Then why not respond to the specifics. Are you rejecting common descent, or just have questions about how it occurs?Zachriel
March 16, 2016
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Zachriel: Just a brief observation. I think you have never answered my point that "geographic separation" and "reproductive isolation" are factors which drastically minimize the advantage attributed to NS, because they drastically reduce the size of the population, and therefore the expansion of the selected trait, and therefore the gain in probabilistic resources. I notice that you recur often to those concepts when it is useful for your momentary argument, but strangely you forget them when you invoke huge numbers of fish in the old oceans to imagine enormous fixations which can give a semblance of credibility to your reasoning. Will you please make up your mind? Were the incredible non existent paths to functional complexity traversed (at least in your theory) through the help of huge fixations in huge and maximal populations, or did they take place in limited subpopulations, reproductively isolated? Just to understand...gpuccio
March 16, 2016
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Zachriel
bill cole: Without knowing HOW you do not have a theory and the branching idea remains speculation. If we watch a tree grow, we can see it branches without having to know anything about the mechanism of plant growth. Nonetheless, the obvious entailment is that there is a mechanism of branching. We have pointed to support for biological branching — including direct observation — , but you have ignored that evidence. Here it is again: • the nested hierarchy • reproductive isolation • sterility various in degree (Darwin, Origin of Species, 1872) • direct observations of changes in reproductive isolation.
The tree you are talking about is a conceptual tree not one planted in the ground that you can observe....it is a man made tree. I have not ignored the evidence, I have evaluated it and don't think it supports the mechanisms including random variation natural selection population genetics and geographic separation which I believe is a subset of random variation and population genetics as the cause speciation. I don't think you created any real argument for this connection in light of the sequential space of the genome. How do you get the DNA, Splicing and epigenetic changes for speciation.
The standard is hypothetico-deduction. Darwin’s theory has led to very specific empirical predictions that have been repeatedly verified. How did you think science was done?
I have taken a brief look at this standard and agree that it is close to the inference standard Darwin originally used. As far as I am concerned based on this, the design inference and the nature inference are on a level playing field both lacking testability of a mechanism. The question is the design inference ahead with CSI?bill cole
March 15, 2016
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bill cole: Without knowing HOW you do not have a theory and the branching idea remains speculation. If we watch a tree grow, we can see it branches without having to know anything about the mechanism of plant growth. Nonetheless, the obvious entailment is that there is a mechanism of branching. We have pointed to support for biological branching — including direct observation — , but you have ignored that evidence. Here it is again: • the nested hierarchy • reproductive isolation • sterility various in degree (Darwin, Origin of Species, 1872) • direct observations of changes in reproductive isolation. bill cole: Again, I agree you have evidence but only to the inference standard as Darwin argued. The standard is hypothetico-deduction. Darwin's theory has led to very specific empirical predictions that have been repeatedly verified. How did you think science was done? bill cole: I am very skeptical that we would be successful with random variation and natural selection along with population genetics as our selected mechanisms. You have to include mechanisms of speciation, such as geographic separation.Zachriel
March 15, 2016
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Zachriel
It is quite possible to determine that branching has occurred without knowing the details of how the actual branching happens. Consider a tree for someone ignorant of how trees grow. They can still observe branching over time. In any case, we do have evidence of the biological branching process, which was summarized above.
Without knowing HOW you do not have a theory and the branching idea remains speculation. Again, I agree you have evidence but only to the inference standard as Darwin argued. Without the cause of the branching process again you have an untested hypothesis and are on the same playing field as those proposing intelligent causation. Could we devise an experiment that can isolate the cause of the tree branching using the scientific method? I am very skeptical that we would be successful with random variation and natural selection along with population genetics as our selected mechanisms. What about alternative splicing?bill cole
March 15, 2016
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