Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Insane Scaremongering on a Colossal Scale

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

JVL:

If we take the CFR for COVID-19 to be 2% . . . it’s a low estimate . . . in order to exceed Barry‘s limit* of 200,000 deaths in the US there would have to be over 10 million cases in the US. Wikipedia says the 2019 estimated population of the US is about 328 million so that means about 3% of the population would have to be diagnosed. It’s impossible to say, now, of course, but I’d be inclined to think that it’s fairly likely that 3% of the US population will get infected. We’ll see . . . .

JVL says “it’s fairly likely that” around 3% of the US population of 328,000,000 will contract COVID 19, resulting in 10,000,000 cases. (The exact number is 3.0488%.) He also says that of those 10 million cases, the fatality rate (CFR) is likely to be at least 2%, resulting in over 200,000 deaths.

This is insane scaremongering on a grand scale.

And it is easy to demonstrate this. Right now, as I write this, China (population 1.386 BILLION) has had a total of 81,054 cases. See here. 72,440 of those have recovered. There are 5,353 active cases. 1,845 of those are “serious.” There have been 3,261 deaths.

Deaths per day in China peaked at 150 on February 23. On March 21, there were 6 deaths. New cases peaked at 14,108 on February 12. On March 21 there were 46.

Significantly, there have been ZERO new cases reported in Wuhan for the 4th day in a row.

Inescapable conclusion. The epidemic has nearly run its course in China.

Let’s do a little simple math. Total deaths in a country with a population of 1.386 BILLION will almost certainly be under 10,000, perhaps under 5,000. Total cases will probably be less than 100,000.

Why in the world would anyone believe that total deaths in a county with a population of 328 million will approach 200,000? For that to happen, there would have to be over 20 times the deaths in a population that is one-fourth the size.

Why in the world would anyone believe that total cases in a county with a population of 328 million will approach 10 million? For that to happen, there would have to be 100 times the cases in a population that is one-fourth the size.

________________

*I don’t know what JVL means by Barry’s limit of 200,000 deaths. Jim Thibodeau believes there will be over 200,000 deaths, not I. I believe there will be a fraction (probably a very tiny fraction) of 60,000 deaths, in other words, far fewer than the deaths caused by the flu last year.

Comments
582 Barry Arrington November 18, 2020 at 9:52 pm I sincerely apologize to the entire world for understating the threat of COVID by a multiple of more than three.
Spoken like a lawyer. Closing comments after commenting is a nice touch, though.Orloog
November 23, 2020
November
11
Nov
23
23
2020
05:53 AM
5
05
53
AM
PDT
Mac and cheese:
Please grow up and act like an adult.
Wow. Look at the childish crap I am responding to. Your childish quote-mine is duly noted. Grow up, loser.
The federal government have numerous authorities during a health crisis.
And the Governors are still responsible for their constituents. And people are still responsible for their actions.
Regardless, Trump has never been shy about grabbing authority in areas where he does not have any.
Spoken like a child. Grow up, already.ET
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
09:52 AM
9
09
52
AM
PDT
ET
Clearly you have mental issues.
Please grow up and act like an adult.
Also in the USA the President cannot command the States. The Governors have control of their respective States. Those who want to blame Trump are just ignorant.
The federal government have numerous authorities during a health crisis. These include things like restricting inter-state traffic and distribution of PPE, vaccines, etc. Regardless, Trump has never been shy about grabbing authority in areas where he does not have any.Mac McTavish
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
09:33 AM
9
09
33
AM
PDT
Mac and cheese:
Then why is the CDC a federal department?
That has nothing to do with what you are responding to. Clearly you have mental issues. Also in the USA the President cannot command the States. The Governors have control of their respective States. Those who want to blame Trump are just ignorant. We just saw this play out when Trump wanted to order everyone back to work. The Governors when ape and set the record straight. Their States are for them to run. The Governors are the people responsible for all of the deaths. They sent sick elderly back to nursing homes. Trump didn't do that.ET
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
06:36 AM
6
06
36
AM
PDT
ET
Also in the USA the President cannot command the States. The Governors have control of their respective States. Those who want to blame Trump are just ignorant.
Then why is the CDC a federal department?Mac McTavish
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
06:26 AM
6
06
26
AM
PDT
Right, lock down hard and fast and watch as people die from starvation. Oh, what's that? Don't lock down that hard and fast? Let people shop and food processing places stay open? Are workers no longer part of the society that we need to protect? This is stupid. We could easily fight this virus with mere nutrition.ET
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
06:24 AM
6
06
24
AM
PDT
Bob O'H: BTW, here in Norway we also have close to no deaths, with only 270 deaths. And Finland? 343 deaths. Denmark? 649 deaths. Why focus on Sweden, which seems to be a failure relative to its neighbours? Exactly: lock-down hard and fast and leave it in place for enough time to reduce the number of active cases to very few.JVL
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
06:17 AM
6
06
17
AM
PDT
Wow. DavidP is obviously clueless. UD has been following the advice of the experts. There are many articles saying how to fight and treat the disease. And the flu without a flu vaccine would easily be as deadly as covid-19. Also in the USA the President cannot command the States. The Governors have control of their respective States. Those who want to blame Trump are just ignorant.ET
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
05:37 AM
5
05
37
AM
PDT
They reached heard immunity.
Unless you thing the Swedes have all gone deaf, I think you mean herd immunity. FWIW, I doubt they have reached herd immunity - I haven't seen any evidence that they are anywhere near the proportion of immune people needed (which would probably be over 50%), and this story suggests they are a long way from it. In addition, if Sweden had achieved herd immunity, cases wouldn't be increasing again. Instead their low number of cases is because they have active control, through social distancing (not difficult for the average Swede) and track and trace. BTW, here in Norway we also have close to no deaths, with only 270 deaths. And Finland? 343 deaths. Denmark? 649 deaths. Why focus on Sweden, which seems to be a failure relative to its neighbours?Bob O'H
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
02:35 AM
2
02
35
AM
PDT
Sweden continues to have close to no deaths, since their height in April. Those 5,000,000 they were projected to have continues to remain under 6000 dead. They reached heard immunity. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/BobRyan
September 28, 2020
September
09
Sep
28
28
2020
12:00 AM
12
12
00
AM
PDT
Here in NZ where our government had a clear strategy based on advice from scientists, and with a prime minister prepared to be honest with the public and take the hard decisions, we have watched in horror the outcome of the failed leadership in the US. Surely, no one can now dispute the seriousness of the pandemic, and the tragic result of a government that would not listen to the scientists. (Although, according to the interview with Bob Woodward, Trump did believe the scientific advice he was getting but chose instead to mislead the public).TimR
September 27, 2020
September
09
Sep
27
27
2020
03:30 PM
3
03
30
PM
PDT
CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group: 0-19: 99.997% 20-49: 99.98% 50-69: 99.5% 70+: 94.6% Vividvividbleau
September 27, 2020
September
09
Sep
27
27
2020
12:28 PM
12
12
28
PM
PDT
I wonder how many cases and how many deaths it will take for some to recognize that there is a problem and it is worse than the flu?Seversky
September 27, 2020
September
09
Sep
27
27
2020
10:54 AM
10
10
54
AM
PDT
For the record, US passed 200k deaths and 7 million cases. Trump said COVID-19 would be no worse than the flu and this site followed Trump as opposed to the experts. If uncommondescent.com was wrong about this what else are they wrong about?David P
September 27, 2020
September
09
Sep
27
27
2020
10:43 AM
10
10
43
AM
PDT
This thread aged well.DNA_Jock
September 20, 2020
September
09
Sep
20
20
2020
05:47 PM
5
05
47
PM
PDT
@158 Kairosfocus: Thank you.Truthfreedom
March 27, 2020
March
03
Mar
27
27
2020
06:04 AM
6
06
04
AM
PDT
F/N:T Notice, two levels of sampling, Of population and then of contents of the blood. KFkairosfocus
March 27, 2020
March
03
Mar
27
27
2020
03:59 AM
3
03
59
AM
PDT
TF, I suspect it may have been giving problems or is incompatible with an update for WP. Write comments in a text editor then copy-paste after proofing. And I know, inconvenient. KFkairosfocus
March 27, 2020
March
03
Mar
27
27
2020
03:58 AM
3
03
58
AM
PDT
Folks, if a sample can be reasonably reduced to the general population's segments, then a sampling based blood sample approach will help us profile extent of infections; crucial for deeper understanding. I don't know if we will be able to get tracking blood sampling. KFkairosfocus
March 27, 2020
March
03
Mar
27
27
2020
03:55 AM
3
03
55
AM
PDT
Edit function back for Easter, please! Trying again to post the link @154, @155: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/health/coronavirus-immunity-antibodies.html?0p19G=7900Truthfreedom
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
05:24 PM
5
05
24
PM
PDT
Edit function please. :) Link for my comment @154: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/health/coronavirus-immunity- antibodies.html?0p19G=7900 This caught my eye:
"Days into an infection, the immune system refines this antibody into a second type, called immunoglobulin G, exquisitely designedto recognize and neutralize a specific virus."
Truthfreedom
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
05:22 PM
5
05
22
PM
PDT
Other coronaviruses might have triggered immune responses capable of offering partial protection against the -19.
[...] it might explain why some people — children, for example — have only mild symptoms. They may have antibodies to related coronaviruses that are at least somewhat effective against the new one".
Given how common coronaviruses are, I have my doubts that all immune systems are completely
naive. I may be wrong of course.Truthfreedom
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
05:09 PM
5
05
09
PM
PDT
@172 Orthomyxo
Coronaviruses don’t tend to produce lasting immune responses, so I still doubt any humans are immune due to SARS.
It depends. There are lots of variables at work.
"Most people who became infected during the SARS epidemic — that virus is a close cousin of the new coronavirus, called SARS-CoV-2 — had long-term immunity lasting eight to 10 years, said Vineet D. Menachery, a virologist at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/health/coronavirus-immunity-antibodies.amp.html%3f0p19G=7900
Truthfreedom
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
04:46 PM
4
04
46
PM
PDT
I'll admit I'm a little surprised that even this is showing some promise. But even these results are only showing antibodies against the S protein hinder infection of another virus in cell culture. Coronaviruses don't tend to produce lasting immune responses, so I still doubt any humans are immune due to SARS. And, of course, there are still only a few thousand people that were infected by SARS, so it would not make an appreciable difference of there were.orthomyxo
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
12:16 PM
12
12
16
PM
PDT
@135 Orthomyxo Orthomyxoviridae failure :)Truthfreedom
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
07:52 AM
7
07
52
AM
PDT
@135 Orrhomyxo
There is no evidence that SARS produces immunity to SARS-CoV-2, and no reason to think it could.
I have something for you :)
"Although confirmation with infectious virus is pending, our results indicate that neutralizing antibody responses raised against SARS-S could offer some protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, which may have implications for outbreak control,” https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/researchers-identify-potential-coronavirus-vaccine-and-therapy-targets#Towards-a-SARS-CoV-2-vaccine
Truthfreedom
March 26, 2020
March
03
Mar
26
26
2020
07:46 AM
7
07
46
AM
PDT
Jerry, I agree that it would be of interest but I don’t know how good the data would be unless you selected the sample (people) randomly and made it mandatory.Ed George
March 25, 2020
March
03
Mar
25
25
2020
06:14 PM
6
06
14
PM
PDT
We won’t ever know anything but confirmed cases
Not true. A systematic study using blood not swabs will indicate what percentage of the population became infected. If organized it should be able to estimate the percentage of the population that came down with the virus even if they showed no symptoms. They could add a new sample each week to calculate the progression. Would probably be expensive for an individual organization but if financed by the government, could be easily done.jerry
March 25, 2020
March
03
Mar
25
25
2020
05:38 PM
5
05
38
PM
PDT
Notice, fresh developments on chloroquine https://uncommondescent.com/ethics/hydrochloroquine-wars-2-a-ny-physician-speaks-of-hundreds-of-successful-patients-a-governor-bans-use-in-nevada/kairosfocus
March 25, 2020
March
03
Mar
25
25
2020
02:13 PM
2
02
13
PM
PDT
480 Vividbleau March 25, 2020 at 2:41 pm I know we are all trying to get a handle on something that we will not know for months but here is some good news and let’s hope in continues. In New York the governor said that original projections were hospitalizations would double every 2 days, on Monday the projections were every 3.4 days and Tuesday they are at 4.7 days. Quote “This is almost to good to be true” Let’s hope not Vividvividbleau
March 25, 2020
March
03
Mar
25
25
2020
01:46 PM
1
01
46
PM
PDT
1 2 3 6

Leave a Reply