Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Hyperskepticism: The Wrong Side Of A Continuum

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Philosophers and scientists who know their business recognize that any attempt to seek knowledge presupposes the existence of a rational universe ripe for investigating. The fact that we even bother to make the effort says something about our nature. As Aristotle says, “all men by nature want to know.” That is why the discovery of a new fact or truth can be a joy for its own sake. To be sure, knowledge also provides practical benefits, empowering us to pursue a self-directed life style, but it also edifies us, leading us on the road to self-actualization. To be intellectually healthy is to be curious.

On the other hand, we can, by virtue of our free will, act against our natural desire to know. For better or worse, there are some truths that many of us would prefer not to know about. The compelling nature of an objective fact can pull us in one direction while the force of our personal desires can pull us in the opposite direction. When this happens, a choice must be made. “Either the thinker conforms desire to truth or he conforms truth to desire.”–E. Michael Jones

Because we experience this ambivalence about the truth, we must be on guard against two errors: (a) talking ourselves out of things that we should believe [hyperskepticism] or (b) talking ourselves into things that we should not believe [gullibility]. Hyperskeptics attempt to justify the first error by calling attention to the second error, as if there was no reasonable alternative to either extreme. On the contrary, the ideal solution is to seek a rational midpoint –to balance a healthy skepticism about unconfirmed truth claims with a healthy confidence in truths already known. The one thing a thinker should not do is be skeptical or open-minded about the first principles of right reason, without which there is no standard for investigating or discoursing about anything “Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.”– G. K. Chesterton

In the spirit of public service, then, I present this little test for analyzing our readers’ proclivity for hyperskepticism. Hopefully, those who indulge will not find any predictable patterns, since I strove to keep them at a minimum.

Yes or No

[1] Can we know anything about the real world?

In asking this question, I am probing for your orientation on the matter of external facts with respect to our internal experience. Can we really know if such a thing as a tree exists, or is it the case that we simply experience mental representations of something that may not be a tree at all? [Reminiscent of Kant’s hyperskepticism]

[2] If the answer to [1] is no, is it, under those circumstances, possible to conduct rational investigations or participate in rational discourse?

If I can feel the experience of something that seems like a tree, without knowing that it is a tree, or if I am just using words to describe my experience, can I use my reason to draw other meaningful conclusions about the world? In other words, can I, absent a knowable external reality, reason not just validly [with internal consistency] but also soundly [align my understanding with the truth of things]?

True or False

[3] The law of non-contradiction [a thing cannot be and not be at the same time] is not a self-evident truth.

Inasmuch as scientific progress has demonstrated that Aristotle was wrong about the four basic elements of the earth, it is not unreasonable to suggest that he was also wrong about his so-called laws of logic.

[4] The law of causality is a self-evident truth.

I can accept this proposition unconditionally, not only as a second law of logic, but also as an intellectual companion to the first law of logic? Put another way, if a thing cannot be and not be at the same time, that fact influences or informs the law that nothing can come into existence without a cause. There is a logical connection between the claim that Jupiter cannot both exist and not exist and the claim that it cannot come into existence without a cause?

[5] Our knowledge of the real world is reliable but imperfect.

We may not know everything there is to know about a tree, but we do know that something is there that we call a tree and that it is more than just a collection of parts–something that exhibits “treeness.”

[6] A finite whole can be less than any one of its parts.

A crankcase can, in some cases, be greater than the automobile of which it is a part.

[7] The universe is ordered.

Material objects move in such a way as to indicate some kind of function or purpose.

[8] The universe may be ordered to a purpose, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it needed an intelligence to do the ordering or establish the purpose.

Purpose can exist without intelligence.

[9] The universe is, indeed, ordered, but that doesn’t mean that its order is synchronized with our mind’s logic.

The mind’s logic [if it’s raining, the streets will get wet] may be inconsistent with the order of the universe [If it’s raining, the streets may not necessarily get wet.] The proposition that there is an unfailing correspondence between the logic our rational minds and ordering of the rational universe is something that should be demonstrated through evidence and cannot be reasonably accepted as a “self-evident truth.”

[10] There can be more than one truth?

Each specialized branch of knowledge can have its own brand of truth, and that truth may well be incompatible with truths found in other specialized areas.

[11] In some cases, a cause can give more than it has to give.

Something can come to exist in the effect that was not first present in the cause. It may well be, for example, that an immaterial mind could emerge from matter even though matter has no raw materials containing anything like immaterial mental substances.

12-20, Yes, No, or I don’t know.

[12] Does truth exist?

Is truth absolute, not relative–objective, not subjective–universal, not contextual–and indivisible, not many?

[13] Is there such a thing as the natural moral law?

Is there an objective standard of right and wrong that we [humans] did not invent [or socially construct] and to which we are morally obliged to follow in spite of our personal preferences or in spite of public opinion?

[14] Does the human conscience exist?

Do we, as humans, possess some kind of inborn instinct that makes us feel bad about ourselves when we do something wrong and feel good about ourselves when we do something right. Can that same conscience be habitually silenced and ignored to the point at which it stops sending signals?

[15] Is design detectable?

Can we discern the presence of intelligence from the biological and cosmological patterns found in nature? Can we discover the presence of intelligence from patterns found in human artifacts even if we know nothing about the history of those artifacts? Can minds detect the activity of other minds?

[16] Does God exist?

Is there a personal, omniscient, omnipotent, eternal, self-existent God who created the universe and all the creatures that inhabit it?

[17] Is God organic with the universe?

Could God and the universe be one and the same thing?

[18] Can matter investigate itself?

In order for a scientist or a philosopher to investigate the universe or the world, must he exist as a substance of a different kind than the object of his study? Are two such realms of existence really necessary, or can the relationship between the investigator and the object of investigation be explained from a monistic framework.

[19] Evidence can speak for itself; it need not be interpreted by or mediated through the rules of right reason.

Science can stand alone. It needs no metaphysical foundations in order to be rational.

[20] Ask yourself this question: Do I have free will?

Do I have something to say about my fate? Can I say that I could have made choices other than the ones that I did make, or that I could have created outcomes different than the ones I did create? Do I have the power to act contrary to my nature, predisposition, desires, and appetites?

True/ False

[21] If the ordered universe is synchronized with the laws of logic, it could be a coincidence.

Even if we do have “rational” minds, and even if they do correspond to a “rational universe,” there is no reason to suggeset that it had to be set up by something or someone. It could just be that way.

[22] Theistic Darwinism is a reasonable hypothesis.

A purposeful, mindful God may well have used a purposeless, mindless process to create humans.

[23] A universe can come into existence without a cause.

Not all effects require causes. Further, some things that are often characterized as effects, such as our universe, may not really be effects at all. Even if it does, itself, act as a cause, the physical universe could be, but need not be, the result of a prior cause.

[24] Unguided evolution is a reasonable hypothesis.

There is no reason to believe that humans could not emerge as a lucky accident from solely naturalistic forces.

[25] Cause and effect can occur without a first cause.

Granted, a cause/effect chain exists in nature, but that fact alone does not compel us to posit that only a first cause or causeless cause can explain

Comments
StephenB writes, "Mathematics are based on Euclid’s principles, which he considered to be self evident." Wrong. Mathematics is not based on Euclid's principles. Euclidean geometry is, but other geometries are not. Actually Euclid had doubts about the self-evidency of the parallel postulate, and the whole history of non-Euclidean geometries illustrates the point that different axioms produce different logical systems, and only testing can determine whether any one real space matches any one model.Aleta
October 16, 2010
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fg "vivid, everything that began to exist began to exist before it existed. Once it exists it is past the point where it began to exist.” Technically whatever began to exist did not begin to exist before it existed. What we see are different forms of existence because of the different arrangements of the stuff that existed before, its the same stuff with a different configuration. There is nothing in whatever began to exist that was not there before it existed. Vividvividbleau
October 16, 2010
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Maybe Billy Preston should have named his song 'something from nothing' instead of 'Nothing from Nothing' :) Billy Preston - Nothing from nothing 1975 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DV54ddNHEbornagain77
October 16, 2010
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fg "vivid, everything that began to exist began to exist before it existed. Once it exists it is past the point where it began to exist." Sure because something existed before. I am adressing your position that nothing brings the universe into being, that the universe poofed into existence without any cause. It just happened. It is and it isnt at the same time in the same relationship, it exists before it exists. fg "I still don’t think you grasp what we are discusing here. It is about causes, not about beginnings" I understand that it is your position that all things that come into existence have a cause, except the Universe. I agree as an axiom "it is quite legitimate for different people to base their reasoning on different axiomatic assumptions." I am pointing out why I think this position is logically absurd. You say it is about causes but not beginnings. I take it you think that to say the universe has no cause somehow makes your position more coherent. Begginings requires causes you assert otherwise. The only rational test I know is to determine rationally which axiom is more coherent. I dunno what am I missing? Vividvividbleau
October 16, 2010
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---faded glory @ 254. OK, duly noted. Thanks. ---"If you don’t think mathematics are founded on arbitrary axioms, what do you make of various types of non-Euclidian mathematics?" Mathematics are based on Euclid's principles, which he considered to be self evident.StephenB
October 16, 2010
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--Aleta: "I’ve discussed that subject a number of times, explaining the difference between the laws of logic themselves and the application of them through a model," No, actually you have presented no examples or models at all. You allude to their existence, but you do not specify. ---and I’ve explained that sometimes the model doesn’t work and then we have to refine the model, and I’ve given examples." You have provided no examples. Evidently, you must be speaking of inductive models, but those approaches are always based on mathematical probabilities, which would be a totally different matter. You do understand, I trust, that scientific findings are always provisional and are based on probability models. By contrast, a syllogism'sconclusions, if arrived at through a sound reasoning process, is always certain. Thus, appealing to a real world analysis, if Jupiter is smaller than the Sun and, if the Sun is smaller than the Milky Way, it is certain that Jupiter is smaller that the Milky Way. While providing no models of your own, you challenge my models by saying that they do not always apply to the real world. Yet, I have made it clear that they do. That is why I asked you if Jupiter can exist and not exist at the same time [real world application of LNC]. You admitted that such a state of affairs cannot exist, but you will not acknowledge the obvious reason why this is so. [Since nothing can exist and exist at the same time (The non-negotiable law of non-contraction) if follows that Jupiter cannot exist and not exist at the same time. Thus, LNC is true and it does apply to the real world. Yet, as a hyperskeptic, you fail to acknowledge it as a law. The syllogism, another specific logical model which I have mentioned, [a] applies to the real world and [b]is based on the law of non-contradiction. If I begin with a sound premise [something true about the real world], and if I reason properly, I will draw a sound conclusion--a truth about the real world. No one, least of all myself, has ever suggested that a syllogism, or any other form of deductive logic can, without any sound input about the real world, teach us anything about the world. So please turn loose of that strawman. You are choking him to death. The logical error you are making is as follows: You are saying that [a] Since a syllogism cannot provide useful information about the real world without sound input, [b] it follows that the syllogism does not always apply to the real world. But [b] does not follow from [a]. Do you understand your error?StephenB
October 16, 2010
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Faded_Glory answers to StephenB in 237: ...I appeal to ‘all things that begin to exist have a cause, except the universe’. How would that make any difference to everything else we would care to discuss? - - For one thing I already showed how the axiom "all things that begin to exist have a cause, except the universe" is internally and logically invalid syllogism and continuing to believe in it after it has been shown to be invalid is to blatantly deny reason. Even with the "within the universe" clause you later added you will get 1. The universe was not caused 2. All things that begin to exists within the universe are caused 3. As the universe began to exists movement of atoms began to exists within universe without a cause 4.Thus all things that begins to exists within the universe are not caused Third premise follows necessarily from 1. and the fourth premise is negation of the 2. and thus the syllogism fails utterly. When forming premises you have to think what other premises follows necessarily from them and make sure that they are not in contradiction with each other. So by laws of logic you really do believe that: 1. Universe's beginning didn't have a cause 2. Thus not all things that begin to exists have a cause :DInnerbling
October 16, 2010
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Besides, last Thursdayism is wrong. It was last Tuesday Wanna fight about it! :)Aleta
October 16, 2010
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above, I don't think it is valid to dismiss solipsism that easily. To a solipsist, all exists is a single (eternal?) mind, and therefore the experience of people being hit by a train is still nothing more than merely a thought in that mind. Even if he placed himself on the tracks, the experience, for all the blood and gore, would be merely a thought in that mind. I'm sure we agree that it is a bizarre concept, but I maintain that it can't be ruled out by logic or empirical means. The reason I am not a solipsist is that I find the concept useless and boring. Moreover, the idea of a mind without a material substrate violates some other axioms I adhere to. Same with brain-in-a-vat and last-Thursdayism. There is no way to prove them wrong, but they are useless and boring principles to base one's existence on. fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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above, What astronomers mean by the universe that came into existence at the Big Bang is the space-time manifold. They don't mean that the chair I am sitting on came into existence at the Big Bang. Likewise, if my axiom states that everything that begins has a cause except for the universe, that doesn't mean that the chair I am siting on isn't caused. fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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StephenB said: Please do not mischaracterize what I say in your attempt to debate above. I have never said, or ever would say, that mathematics is founded on arbitrarily chosen axioms. ------------------ Stephen, I apologise. I find it quite hard in these internet discussions to really understand what people mean behind the things they write. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. If you don't think mathematics are founded on arbitrary axioms, what do you make of various types of non-Euclidian mathematics? If the axioms are not arbitrary, how can there be different sets that are mutually contradictory? Wouldn't that violate the law of non-contradiction? fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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@aleta Other than the fact that nominalism is self-referentially incoherent? None whatsoever. As far as the perennial divide you mentioned, there is also a third option that treats the divide as yet another false dichotomy. But that is a different matter altogether. @fade I think the conceptual example I gave you is enough to convince even the most irrational person of the problems with solipsism. You have failed to answer my question regarding what astronomers mean however… Care to answer it since you were the one that brought it up?above
October 16, 2010
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Hello, I thought you all up. And I am bored with your drivel. /sarcUpright BiPed
October 16, 2010
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To above: what is wrong with nominalism? In an earlier post to Clive, I think, I pointed out that the Platonic/non-Platonic view is a perennial divide in philosophy, and I fall on the non-Platonic side. As fg is discussing, these are two different views whose truth or falsity really can't be investigated - they are assumptions that one chooses to adopt.Aleta
October 16, 2010
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above, I'm afraid it goes a bit deeper than that. You can disprove solipsism in someone else, but not in yourself. How did you decide for yourself that your experiences stem from a reality outside your own mind? fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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@StephenB -“ Hyperskepticism [there is no law of causality] leads to gullibility [universes can come into existence from out of nowhere]. Hyperskepticism [there are no absolute truths] leads to gullibility and irrationality [it is absolutely true that there are no absolute truths.” Precisely! However, this is not merely hyperskepticism but a dishonest form hyperskepticism. Another thing I noticed by reading this thread is that a lot of the negative responses to your thesis have an underlying commitment to nominalism. A notion that I find very problematic myself.above
October 16, 2010
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StephenB, for example cargo cults. Or the Greek pantheon who were supposed to live on Mount Olympus and mix amongst the ordinary people from time to time, and perform miraculous deeds. From within those cutures, these beliefs were seen as fundamental truths. From the outside, helped by more extensive knowledge, we can see that those foundational beliefs were absurd. fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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@faded -“What is wrong with solipsism? How are you going to demonstrate if it is true or false? And if you can’t, how can you possibly conclude that it is anything else but yet another subjective choice of axioms about reality?” So I was right then. You are an epistemological relativist. lol What’s wrong with thinking that there is no external world? I don’t know… Go stand on some subway train tracks wait for about say 5-10 minutes, and then tell us what’s wrong with it.above
October 16, 2010
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---faded glory to above: "The concept of an axiom as an arbitrary choice that cannot be formally proven nor empirically demonstrated, within the system that it forms the foundation of, is hardly controversial. Ask StephenB, he will agree with me. All of mathematics start with axioms, as does philosophy." Please do not mischaracterize what I say in your attempt to debate above. I have never said, or ever would say, that mathematics is founded on arbitrarily chosen axioms.StephenB
October 16, 2010
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@faded I know exactly what an axiom is, but thanks anyway. What I was getting at with my critique is your claim that they have no correlation to the actual state of affairs. Some have a correlation while others do not. It is therefore a matter of argument and as of yet I have not seem anything presented by you that would compel me to reject what Stephen is saying. To be clear, my critique was directed at an underlying epistemological relativism I saw in your response. If that’s not what you meant then don’t worry about it. -“No. I mean the same thing that atronomers mean when they say that the Universe began with the Big Bang. That obviously does not mean that astronomers think everything began with the Big Bang.” And what exactly do they mean? Tell us…above
October 16, 2010
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---fadedglory: "Why can’t I appeal to first principles?" You said, "I fully agree that a poor choice of axioms can lead to absurdity." Just show me how a poor choice of axioms can lead to absurdity. Do it any way you like.StephenB
October 16, 2010
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above, What is wrong with solipsism? How are you going to demonstrate if it is true or false? And if you can't, how can you possibly conclude that it is anything else but yet another subjective choice of axioms about reality? fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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@aleta “Invoking whatever properties of God that Stephen wants to invoke (eternal, causeless, whatever) is not a matter of rationality – it’s a matter of assertion by faith” First and foremost, this statement rests upon a false dichotomy between reason and faith making it in effect worthless. Second, theologians, philosophers and metaphysicians with the use of rational induction, deduction and abduction have addressed the issue to the degree of exhaustion. If you are not familiar with the literature then I’m sorry. -“—”I consider all your arguments about God of this variety. [arbitrarily conceived logical systems].” Wrong again. It seems to me that you are either oblivious to the literature or extremely hyperskeptical. There is also an underlying sense of nominalism in your thinking, exemplified by your insistence on arbitrariness, which itself is extremely problematic as a perspective on reality. In fact, the manner in which you treat the laws of right reason and logic, and insist on arbitrariness is the path to solipsism. “What I don’t believe is that we can find truth through pure logic about things that we can’t empirically experience.” That is a statement of faith. It is an arbitrary claim and one that serves as the basis of the philosophy of verificationism. That being said, verificationism is self-refuting as has been demonstrated by philosophers of science in the 20th century. You’ve become the victim of your own hyperskepticism and are not even aware of it.above
October 16, 2010
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above said: @faded “all things that come into existence have a cause, except the Universe” That is a self-refuting statement at its finest. The universe (as per materialism) is the totality of all material things… In effect what your proposition states is “all things that come into existence have a cause except ALL THINGS.” ------------------ No. I mean the same thing that atronomers mean when they say that the Universe began with the Big Bang. That obviously does not mean that astronomers think everything began with the Big Bang. Or do you think that is what they mean? In which case the lol is on me. ----------------- above said: Stating that axioms are arbitrary choices and that they do not necessarily correspond to the actual state of affairs is itself an axiom… An arbitrary one. You’ve just refuted yourself… AGAIN! done. ----------------- The concept of an axiom as an arbitrary choice that cannot be formally proven nor empirically demonstrated, within the system that it forms the foundation of, is hardly controversial. Ask StephenB, he will agree with me. All of mathematics start with axioms, as does philosophy. Let's say you adhere to axiom A. I adhere to mutually exclusive axiom B. We can't settle by reasoning or evidence which one corresponds to the real world. How then can you maintain that the choice between A and B is anything else but subjective? But if you insist, I am perfectly happy to elevate my axiom to the one and only true one. I proclaim it to be self-evident. I concede your point, my axiom is not subjective. You are right, axioms are non-arbitrary, and my axiom B is self-evidently true. This, obviously, implies that your one A is false because A and B are mutually exclusive. What are you going to do now? fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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to above: I'm not doubting the historical existence of a man named Jesus, I am doubting the claims that he was the son of God, that he is present in spirit today, that believing in him leads to salvation in heaven, etc.Aleta
October 16, 2010
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Hi Vivid - thanks for asking if you are understanding what I am saying correctly. You write, "Correct me where I am wrong . I understand you to be saying that logic is the model that flows from what we observe in the real world. Without observing the real world we would not have the model. Sometimes the model ( the rules of logic) don’t work because the real world exhibits characteristics that don’t correspond to the model." No, I don't think that is what I am saying, so I'll try to be clearer. 1. Logic is a abstract system for manipulating symbols: for instance ~[P and ~P] is a symbolic expression of the law of non-contradiction, and "All P's are Q's, X is a P, therefore X is a Q" is a symbolic expression of one form of syllogism. The variables here stand for propositional statements, which are statements which can have a truth value: logic allows us to reason from the truth value of the original propositions to the truth value of further propositions, much as the axiom and theorems of math allow us to reason about numbers. 2. However, logic itself has no content: the P's and Q's are variables, empty until we populate them with specific statements. The truth of the beginning statements in a logical chain cannot be determined by logic itself. 3. To use logic we create a model. We assign statements about the real world to the P's and Q's: the model correlates the symbols of the pure logic with statements about the real world, or the symbols are represented by statements about the real world. Once the model is established, we can reason logically from our beginning statements to other statements. 4. However, for reasoning about the real world to work, the beginning statements (and any further statements that are interjected) must be accurate representations of the real world. If they aren't, the reasoning will fail to be valid - not because the logic is wrong, but because the model is wrong. For instance, "all redheads are stupid, Joe is a redhead, therefore Joe is stupid" is a logically correct argument, but wrong because the beginning statement is wrong. Perhaps this helps you understand what I am saying (irrespective of whether you agree, I would like my position to be understood.) Please ask more questions if you like.Aleta
October 16, 2010
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vividbleau said: I find the concept that something ( the universe)began to exist before it existed to be absurd to the max. ------------------ vivid, everything that began to exist began to exist before it existed. Once it exists it is past the point where it began to exist. I still don't think you grasp what we are discusing here. It is about causes, not about beginnings. fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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StephenB said: Show me how a poor choice of axioms leads to absurdity [without appealing to first principles, of course]. --------------- Why can't I appeal to first principles? I daresay we agree on many of those, but perhaps not on all. Say that we agree on everything except on 'all things that begin to exist have a cause', which is one principle you appeal to, whereas I appeal to 'all things that begin to exist have a cause, except the universe'. How would that make any difference to everything else we would care to discuss? fGfaded_Glory
October 16, 2010
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@faded “all things that come into existence have a cause, except the Universe” That is a self-refuting statement at its finest. The universe (as per materialism) is the totality of all material things… In effect what your proposition states is “all things that come into existence have a cause except ALL THINGS.” lol -“ Now, there is nothing wrong with axioms, as long as we don’t lose sight of the fact that they are arbitrary choices and not necessarily corresponding to the actual state of affairs in the real world” Stating that axioms are arbitrary choices and that they do not necessarily correspond to the actual state of affairs is itself an axiom… An arbitrary one. You’ve just refuted yourself... AGAIN! done. @aleta -“There is no reason, other than religious dogma, to believe that there must be some sustaining power going on to keep things in existence” In the same spirit: “There is no reason, other than THE RELIGIOUS DOGMA OF MATERIALISM , to believe that there must NOT be some sustaining power going on to keep things in existence” Tu quoque… but thanks anyway! -“how about the existence of Jesus... Am I hyperskeptical to doubt those, or is that a rational and healthy skepticism?” Actually aleta the situation is a lot worse than simple hyperskepticism, which you are certainly guilty of. Here are the facts…That position unfortunately is both unhistorical and unscholarly. When this idea was first introduced by some hyperskeptical naturalists a few centuries ago the historical community laughed at them. In fact, historians wrote articles arguing against the existence of napoleon, who at the time was alive!!! Historians compared the beliefs of these naturalists to those of flat earthers!!! Their claims are nothing short of foolish and have been abandoned by virtually all modern Biblical scholars. As Ehrman puts it: "I don't think there's any serious historian who doubts the existence of Jesus. There are a lot of people who want to write sensational books and make a lot of money who say Jesus didn't exist. But I don't know any serious scholar who doubts the existence of Jesus." This is not just hyperskepticism but intellectual dishonesty. A situation where knowledge and scholarship are sacrificed at the altar of ignorance and narrow mindedness.above
October 16, 2010
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aleta “Logic is an abstract, internally consistent system for manipulating symbols. When we apply logic to the real world we create a model in which the symbols of logic represent some aspect of the real world – we hypothesize a correspondence between the symbols and the real world. If we have then apply the rules of logic to the model we often (most of the time, because we’ve been doing this for a long time) find that the logical results match what goes on in the world. However, we sometimes find the the model does not work, not because the logic is wrong but because the model is faulty. In that case, we have to refine our model. Notice that the testing process requires empirical evidence if it is to apply to the real world. Logic itself can tell us nothing about the real world – it is a tool (a very powerful one) for thinking about the world using symbols, but only testing our conclusions against the world can validate a particular model” Correct me where I am wrong . I understand you to be saying that logic is the model that flows from what we observe in the real world. Without observing the real world we would not have the model. Sometimes the model ( the rules of logic) don’t work because the real world exhibits characteristics that don’t correspond to the model. Vividvividbleau
October 16, 2010
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