ID Facebook Page heavies mad as hornets at UD News writer

_{Denyse O'Leary

November 18, 2013

Culture, Intelligent Design, Science}

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Timothy Kershner at the Intelligent Design Facebook page writes there,

I’m posting this NOT because I think it makes a good point, but rather because I’d like to know EXACTLY why the more “religious folk” are so animatedly opposed to searching for extraterrestrial life:

“This” refers to a piece that O’Leary (for UD News) wrote on the, ah, generous assumptions people make about the likelihood of encountering ET. His post has attracted 103 comments.

As noted there, I am not sure why Timothy Kershner thinks I am “against” searching for ET. My ENV series to date has studied how prior beliefs and desires govern what counts as evidence. For example, if Earth is a mediocre planet, why isn’t Mars? Or are we allowed to ask?

Why is it science to speculate that ET might be hiding in our junk DNA but not that Bigfoot might be hiding in the mountains? The cultural assumptions merit unpacking, and I mean to unpack them. People can be as upset as they please.

For the record, here is the series:

What has materialism done for science?

Big Bang exterminator wanted, will train

Copernicus, you are not going to believe who is using your name. Or how.

“Behold, countless Earths sail the galaxies … that is, if you would only believe …”

Don’t let Mars fool you. Those exoplanets teem with life!

But surely we can’t conjure an entire advanced civilization?

Of course you don’t have to read any of it before expressing an opinion. Rules like that went out with cucumber sandwiches and tea. But sometimes it is actually more fun to address the identified topic.

In outdated schools, they used to expect you to aim at and hit a specified target, not just throw stuff around and then get a self-esteem award. But some students actually enjoyed being on target, believe it or not. – O’Leary for News

Comments

I think "religious folk" as it seems to be understood by the subject of the OP really do want to believe in aliens. I have in mind the sort of religious folk who are very superstitious, and are willing to believe claims without evidence provided that the person presenting the claim sounds logical (sometimes not even that). But I will say this - good luck trying to lump thinking Christians and other thinking theists into this category. I think one of the reasons why many thinking and rational theists are not interested in looking into a lot of claims about the unknown or "paranormal," is that they begin by asking far deeper questions, such as why we are here, and what's the purpose of our lives; rather than trying to speculate on trivial issues. The existence of aliens is a trivial issue given that there is no hard evidence. Crop circles doesn't cut it. From our experience humans commit fraud and it is endemic. Should tell us something about fantastic claims. The question of the existence of aliens is trivial in light of our desire to know the deeper questions. If they exist, they exist, but that doesn't change the deepre questions.CannuckianYankee_{November 19, 2013
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Its against Christianity to believe in aliens because of the belief in the fall. Its impossible for innocent aliens to be victims of mans fall and so have death/decay thrown upon them. The universe is full of chaos out there of things bumping into each other and so a result of the fall. Its impossible that on other planets there is no death and its impossible there would be death unless the fall had affected the, Its pro-evolution because alien life could only of evolved and not be created by God. Why should God be creating intelligent life out there? Evolutionism is behind ideas about life out there.Robert Byers_{November 19, 2013
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Bruce, "There is evidence here on earth. They’re called crop circles." I too am intrigued by crop circles, and have watched quite a few films and have read some books and articles on the pheonom. I'm intrigued because they present us with a clear design inference. But who did the designing? That's the question I have. Far too many of them have been faked for me not to be a little skeptical. A little healthy skepticism is warranted when we know that designers here on earth are capable of such magnificent artwork. We (designers) are also capable of magnificent trickery and deception, with great effort given to such activity. But on the other hand, if they do prove to be from designers outside our solar system, it would do precisely nothing to change my current worldview. Also, for me, the question of alien existence is an extraordinary one, which would require a high degree of evidence outside of what we humans are capable of producing. Crop circles just don't do that for me. Yes, I believe that around the world there people (perhaps hundreds of thousands of them) seeking notoriety by paying people to create them. As interest in such phonomena increases, the crop circles increase. It's an issue of supply and demand. From the OP: "I’d like to know EXACTLY why the more “religious folk” are so animatedly opposed to searching for extraterrestrial life." That question appears rather stramanish. What religious folk, exactly? Do we become such relisious folk the moment we begin to demand the sort of estraordinary evidence I mentioned above? We have other explanations for a lot of what the secular world accepts as "paranormal." I can't help but also notice also that "paranormal" investigators and the like seem to have broader "expertise" in a number of different disciplines that one would not expect to find parallels from earth scientists, and the like. They study anything from UFO's "chem-trails," and Bigfoot to crop circles and ghosts, and nobody flinches. Nobody seems to specialize in one area unless they're obsessed. I would greatly desire to find someone investing these things that is somewhat dispassionate; but I haven't found one. They all seem to be either true believers, or just silly (or both). I realize that my not finding one does not mean that they do not exist. It's just that you have to do a lot of sifting to find people who just might have legitimate claims. Why should I or anyone else waste our (their) time? Show me the evidence and I might look into it some more.CannuckianYankee_{November 19, 2013
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CentralScrutinizer @3:
Robert Byers: “Its against Christianity and pro evolution to think theres aliens out there but nobody’s stopping the dreaming.”
How so?
I apologise in advance but I have long suspected that Mr. Byers is a Darwinist plant, a fake meant to make UD and IDers look stupid. The enemy is cunning and deeply dishonest, so I would not put it past them. I see this sort of thing done all the time on other forums where people act as if they're speaking from a Christian perspective, albeit a very dumb one. But I could be wrong in this case.Mapou_{November 19, 2013
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"I’m posting this NOT because I think it makes a good point, but rather because I’d like to know EXACTLY why the more “religious folk” are so animatedly opposed to searching for extraterrestrial life:" As one of those "more religious folk", concisely I would say that it's not so much the actual searching that is opposed, it's (1) the *religious* foundation for this search which is then mislabeled as "science"; (2) the extent of resources and effort spent on a search that lacks evidence and a sound scientific foundation and; (3) the fact that there is nothing (other than blind belief and personal desires) that justifies this search. Hey, let's search for elves and fairies. Let's spend thousands of man-hours and millions of dollars in this search. Let's use YOUR time and money. Would that be okay with you?Jorge_{November 19, 2013
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Bruce, I think that some crop circles are done by people, but I have read some material that leads me to believe that many of them are unexplained. One question that is very relevant to this blog is this: do crop circles show evidence of design? And if so, are all crop circles made by humans? Very interesting questions indeed.Collin_{November 19, 2013
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SelvaRajan, re. 6: So your theory is that the crop circle makers have produced thousands of these formations during the few hours of darkness of English summer nights using EM to bend the crops into these intricate and mathematically precise formations? Please. Go to the site to which I linked in #5 and tell me if you really think that these were the work of a "bunch of guys going around at night and building their own man made crop circles" and doing this night after night all over southern England anonymously for literally decades. And by the way, these magnificent creations consist of bent, not broken, plants.Bruce David_{November 19, 2013
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Bruce David, Natural Crop circles have been explained using EM and paddy stem stress. After lighting, the EM generated has 2 effects on paddy stalk - 1.The water molecules in stem boils up 2. The Stem weakens and loses its natural elasticity. Over time, the stem succumbs to gravity and bends -forming Natural crop circles- the important thing to note is that the effect of EM is not immediate. Some times it may take up to a week -this is what confuses most people into thinking it is the job of ET. Of course we have bunch of guys going around at night and building their own man made crop circles and we have instance of farmers sponsoring crop circle specialist to bring fame and money to their fields.selvaRajan_{November 19, 2013
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What if we do end up finding evidence of alien beings in the universe somewhere; or even (ehem…) here on Earth? There’s nothing in the bible that can be dismissed should this be the case.
There is evidence here on earth. They're called crop circles. If you really believe that well over 10,000 of these intricate, beautiful, and in many cases huge formations have been produced by a cadre of human beings working in the dark anonymously in England and other places in the world throughout the summers night after night, decade after decade using some unknown technology that neatly bends the plants without breaking or killing them (and causing documented physiological changes in them), then I have a bridge to sell you. You can see a large number of stunning examples from the last 16 years in England here. I have made this point a number of times in this blog, and it is always greeted with silence. Are you all, like the materialists, blythely ignoring evidence that doesn't fit your paradigm?Bruce David_{November 19, 2013
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Robert/CentralS Is there a reason beyond absence as an explanatino for the bible's silence on this issue? The bible doesn't address a lot of things. It doesn't mean those things don't exist. What if we do end up finding evidence of alien beings in the universe somewhere; or even (ehem...) here on Earth? There's nothing in the bible that can be dismissed should this be the case.CannuckianYankee_{November 19, 2013
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Robert Byers: "Its against Christianity and pro evolution to think theres aliens out there but nobody’s stopping the dreaming."
How so?CentralScrutinizer_{November 19, 2013
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I'm w/ UD News on this one.
because I’d like to know EXACTLY why the more “religious folk” are so animatedly opposed to searching for extraterrestrial life
This seems like a straw-man. Is there really a lot of animated opposition to searching for extraterrestrial life? Anywhere? By anybody? I can't remember much that falls into any category other than "yawn, you guys are wasting your time", or maybe "feel free but I'm not voting to give you my tax dollars for it". This passes for animated opposition now? I think the real issue is that people who want to believe in alien life forms are over-sensitive to the fact that, as Bloom County once put it, there's "not much happening out there". I think the most "animated" UD News has gotten about it is to ask the question whether one has to believe in alien life to escape being tarred as anti-science. Bleh - pat the nice alien-life-believer on the head, murmur the platitudes they need to hear to not feel self-conscious, and move on.drc466_{November 18, 2013
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I am yEC and insist there ain't no one out there. I like space stories, if done well, anddon't care if folks look to the stars for space monkeys. Its against Christianity and pro evolution to think theres aliens out there but nobody's stopping the dreaming.Robert Byers_{November 18, 2013
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