Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Intelligent computers? You may as well believe that Penn and Teller really do magic

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A computer is not—in and of itself—smarter than a pile of tinkertoys, a philosopher argues:

“The thing to emphasize is that the computer is not in and of itself carrying out logical operations, processing information, or doing anything else that might be thought a mark of genuine intelligence—any more than a piece of scratch paper on which you’ve written some logical symbols is carrying out logical operations, processing information, or the like. Considered by themselves and apart from the conventions and intentions of language users, logical symbols on a piece of paper are just a bunch of meaningless ink marks. Considered by themselves and apart from the intentions of the designers, a Tinkertoy computer is just a bunch of sticks moving around, as stupidly as if they had been tossed down the stairs.” – Edward FeserMichael Egnor, “Computers are no smarter than tinkertoys” at Mind Matters News

Michael Egnor responds:

Feser is right. There’s not a shred of intelligence in a computer. Human beings are intelligent and we use computers to represent and leverage our human intelligence. All of the logic “in” a computer is really human logic, represented in a computer. All of the mathematics, all of the literature, all of the thought in a computer program is really just human thought, represented in the computation. Michael Egnor, “Computers are no smarter than tinkertoys” at Mind Matters News

Yes, that Ed Feser, the one who has been anti-ID. Michael Egnor is planning to interview him. Should be interesting.

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See also: Are electrons conscious?

and

Why apes are not spiritual beings

Comments
BB, what is intelligence? KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2019
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EMH, yes, the analogy will certainly be made should we ever get there. The problem is the creativity and originality thus freedom to choose and act. That's pretty clearly non algorithmic, non computed. By definition, not mechanically necessary, nor raw chance nor chance filtered by success -- that would get killed by the needle in haystack problem. Mechanisations of reasoning (even "canning" of expertise have not worked out so well, once we move beyond narrow scopes. Common sense, inmsight, originality, creativity, wisdom, ethical judgement. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2019
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Brother Brian:
And that is why claiming that a computer can never be intelligent is incompatible with ID.
Because you are unable to form a coherent argument?
If computers designed by an intelligent being (humans) can never be truly intelligent then humans, also designed by an intelligent being, can also never be truly intelligent.
That doesn't follow. Look, the OP pertains to computers of TODAY. And the computers of today are not intelligent.ET
May 2, 2019
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Eric@3, I agree with most of what you are saying. If we ever get to the point that computer "intelligence" is completely indistinguishable from human intelligence, how can we ever conclude that they are not truly intelligent. Most will probably argue that even though we can't distinguish the computer intelligence from our own, they can't really be intelligent because they were designed and built by us and any true intelligence is just an illusion. But if we ever get to that point, we have to start looking at ourselves seriously in the mirror. Especially if, as many here claim, life and humans were designed and built by an intelligent being. If the previous rationale is used to argue against the intelligence of the computer, the same argument would apply to humans. All of the navel-gazing will not change this.Brother Brian
May 2, 2019
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KF
BB, rocks have no dreams, i.e. they are governed by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. Rearrange into a computational substrate and the same iron laws obtain. It is the “canned” intelligence that comes from designers and programmers which gives the similitude — too often that’s a generous estimation — of intelligent behaviour.
And that is why claiming that a computer can never be intelligent is incompatible with ID. If computers designed by an intelligent being (humans) can never be truly intelligent then humans, also designed by an intelligent being, can also never be truly intelligent.Brother Brian
May 2, 2019
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The more interesting question for me is whether computers could ever exhibit behavior indistinguishable from human intelligence. Sure, it's not "really intelligence" without conscious interpretation. But, if computers can completely replace human intelligence, then the arguments about consciousness do not seem so relevant.EricMH
May 2, 2019
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BB, rocks have no dreams, i.e. they are governed by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. Rearrange into a computational substrate and the same iron laws obtain. It is the "canned" intelligence that comes from designers and programmers which gives the similitude -- too often that's a generous estimation -- of intelligent behaviour. Genuine freedom to reason and decide comes from a different order of being and the fact that if we deny ourselves as having such, we immediately descend into self-referential absurdity is a clue that the evolutionary materialistic picture is irretrievably broken. We are minded and mind is morally governed by laws of duty not chance and/or mechanical necessity. That already points to the required nature of the root of reality: adequate to ground moral government. That requires inherently good necessary being and as root of reality we are looking at creator too. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2019
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I agree that current computers are not really intelligent. But I don't thing we can conclude that they never will be. This conclusion is simply not possible if intelligent design is true.Brother Brian
May 1, 2019
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